Regs test

[trimmer21]

I'm also interested in what the CO's used as R&PG to stop the truck,in the first place,seeing as how nothing was visible to make them think these guys were even hunters.

[welsh]

Regarding the part that driving around in that scenario could be considered hunting, everyone wearing orange or not should be charged, because you cannot see orange from all sides while you sit in a truck.

It's highly unlikely a court would convict on that. Remember, the letter of the law is not the law. The law is the court's interpretation of the law.

[finsfurfeathers]

I'm also interested in what the CO's used as R&PG to stop the truck,in the first place,seeing as how nothing was visible to make them think these guys were even hunters.

Won't take much. If they were driving slow enough down a trail to spot grouse would be enough to look into their activities.

[werner.reiche]

The rifle was in a case, in the truck box. Would be no different than driving to camp before moose or deer season with your encased rifle and hunting chickens on the way in with a .410.

If the season is not open, not a problem. If the season is open, you better have a license.
Pembroke COs regularly nail people with this when they have a CF rifle with them and cruise back roads before deer season.
- No bear license.

[GW11]

OK, so here's how the situation played out. Many of you were right from the start. No charges were laid, but I think things could have gone differently if questions had of been answered differently.

A couple of clarifications first... This was probably closer to 20 years ago and the "two guys" were actually my good friend (soon to be my BIL) and me personally. I thought that the "no charges" would be more apparent if I was writing about myself, because most people are reluctant to write about their own mistakes. I won't lie, we were pretty stupid to have taken that route home without thinking it over a little first. My understanding of the regs at that time were pretty limited. Yes, I took the hunter safety course and passed all the tests with flying colours, but I was brought up in a big woods, private land family camp where the "law" was what the old-timers said it was and a "CO" was a mythical being only to be seen on crown land sometimes.

So, we were about halfway across this access road when I see a white truck come around the bend in front of us and they put on their flashers. I immediately pulled to the side and waited for the two CO's to approach the truck. I believe they were stopping anyone they came across on this access road to check licences, etc. Our seat belts were on, as was asked above, and although hunting some grouse had been in mind when we left the duck pond on the family land, the amount of traffic and hunters on this access road had quickly changed our mind about doing any hunting. We were, in truth, just passing through at this point. But, the gun was still on the front seat and the shell box was in plain view. Here's how the conversation went:

CO#1 - Leans in the now open window, eyes the shotgun on the seat and asks "So what are you boys up to?"

Me - "Just on our way back home, thought we would come this way to see if anyone had a moose on the ground"

CO#1 - "What were you doing before you came through here?"

Me - "Duck hunting on family property off XXXXX road a few kilometres back"

CO#2 - "You guys get any ducks?"

Me - "Yes, just one, it's in the back"

CO#1 - "How about you fellas step out of the truck and show us what you got"

So, at this point, at the peak of my nervousness of having run into a real CO, I go to step out of the truck and realize that I had my foot on the brake and the clutch the entire time. I lift my foot off both and the truck lurches forward and stalls.

CO#1 - "In a hurry to go somewhere?"

Me - "Haha... no... uh... I forgot that it was still in gear... sorry."

CO#2 - "This is the duck?"

Me - "Yep, ringneck, the only one we got all morning" (the day was cool, we weren't worried about it spoiling)

CO#1 - "Can I see your shell bags?"

Me - "Yes, right there, have a look"

CO#1 - "Am I going to find any lead in here?"

Me - "No, the only lead is up in the front, it stayed there while we were duck hunting as well"

CO#1 - "Can I see your licences please?"

We hand them over, my buddy also hands his firearms licence over along with his registration slips for his guns.

CO#2 - "OK, this is good, we don't care about that stuff" (hands back the firearms papers and licence)

CO#1 - "What firearms do you have with you anyway?"

Me - "I have the side x side 12 gauge you saw up front"

Buddy - "I have an 870 12 gauge in that case there, and a Winchester .30-30 in that case there"

Long...... long..... long.... pause in the conversation.

CO#1 - "Do you boys have moose licences?"

Me/Buddy - "No, but we aren't hunting moose, we're just driving home."

CO#1 - "But you're passing through an area where moose are present during an open season for moose with a high-powered rifle in your possession without a moose licence."

Me - "Sorry, I didn't realize that we were doing anything wrong. We just brought the rifle up to sight in after duck hunting. Deer season starts in two weeks so we were just getting it ready. There's the box and target we were shooting, there's the empty shell casings to go along with it."

At this point it became very apparent that CO#1 (older fellow) wanted to find something. He was still rifling through everything in the back of the truck. CO#2 (younger fellow) could tell that we weren't intending to break any laws, just perhaps not being very careful about attracting unwanted attention.

CO#2 - "It's all good 'Bob' (not sure now what his name was), they're just on their way home, maybe just could have picked a different route is all"

CO#1 Reluctantly, after finishing his inspection - "OK boys, we believe you're doing what you say you're doing. Be more careful next time about how things might look to us when you get stopped"

That was that. Away we went, a little more aware and a little humbled. I truly think the way we answered the questions was the reason we weren't fined. If we'd said we were grouse hunting, maybe we would have been fined for not wearing blaze. Amazingly enough, he never even mentioned the shotgun or shells in the front seat, even though he knew full well they were there. The rifle in the back of the truck, although it looked bad, clearly was not there for poaching moose. We had the target, casings, etc., to support our story. There was no issue with the duck or our duck gear. That was my first encounter with a CO but not the last, and they didn't all go as well. There's always a chance you will run into the wrong guy on the wrong day and you'll go home with a ticket in your pocket no matter how hard you tried to be in compliance. Believe me on that one, I'd be happy to explain it to anyone through PM.

I guess the point of this thread was to point out that although there might be a dozen different directions that an encounter with a CO could go, the attitude/honesty of the hunter, the mood of the CO, the CO's individual interpretation of the law and the circumstances of the day will dictate the outcome. The regs are grey in many places. Most of the time we ourselves can't even agree on what certain things mean and we're expected to know and follow these rules.

My feelings on the matter are (and have been for a long time), use common sense, follow the regs as well as you can based on your interpretation, be prepared to answer questions and explain yourself. If that's not enough to get you by, well, you probably weren't going to win anyway.

Thanks for all the responses to the thread, it's been a fun and interesting read.

[rick_iles]

If the season is not open, not a problem. If the season is open, you better have a license.
Pembroke COs regularly nail people with this when they have a CF rifle with them and cruise back roads before deer season.
- No bear license.

Yea, I found and posted the authority previously.

[B Wilson]

If the season is not open, not a problem. If the season is open, you better have a license.
Pembroke COs regularly nail people with this when they have a CF rifle with them and cruise back roads before deer season.
- No bear license.

Werner, are you suggesting that I need to buy a bear license to go from mink lake over to the Eganville sportsman club to shoot my centre fire riffles? Would they also charge me with hunting with a restricted firearm because I also have my pistol in the truck?

I knew Fern could be a real stickler, but that's ridiculous

[welsh]

Thanks for all the responses to the thread, it's been a fun and interesting read.

Thanks for starting it! Nice to have a real-world example instead of our usual debates over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

[trimmer21]

CO#1 Reluctantly, after finishing his inspection - "OK boys, we believe you're doing what you say you're doing. Be more careful next time about how things might look to us when you get stopped"

That was that. Away we went, a little more aware and a little humbled. I truly think the way we answered the questions was the reason we weren't fined.
My feelings on the matter are (and have been for a long time), use common sense, follow the regs as well as you can based on your interpretation, be prepared to answer questions and explain yourself. If that's not enough to get you by, well, you probably weren't going to win anyway.

Thanks for all the responses to the thread, it's been a fun and interesting read.

You just nailed it,GW11. How one answers the questions and their demeanor means everything. Not a lot of hunters know how to answer questions from law enforcement. Be polite,but,be firm. The less said,the better.

[Waftrudnir]

Thanks for the exercise. Was certainly worth thinking about it.
However, as you stated below, this is the conclusion I reached before and this example just validates it.

.... There's always a chance you will run into the wrong guy on the wrong day and you'll go home with a ticket in your pocket no matter how hard you tried to be in compliance. .....

For the record: Never got a ticket, had nice encounters so far, but still feel better if I don't get checked.