Throne Speech: Liberals to introduce Gun control measures

[fishermccann]

Good post Welsh!

[terrym]

Gun control is a necessity. I don't think any rational person would dispute that. I also think we presently have a pretty good system here in Canada overall with the PAL/RPAL system we use. The problem is the left don't actually want gun control, they want complete disarmament. The Australian model with removal of semis and pumps isn't necessary. The media and the way they routinely report misleading if not outright lies whenever a firearm is involved are likely the biggest problem. Politicians and the general public are grossly misinformed about firearms. Those scary black rifles they like to call "assault" rifles are mostly smaller .22 calibered semi autos. Truth is your uncles Remington 742 deer rifle is a more powerful weapon.
The left is ideologically opposed to guns and laws and decisions are not really about public safety and saving lives. If that was the reason then alcohol would be illegal in this country. Alcohol destroys lives and families and causes far more deaths than firearms do yet it is socially accepted and an enormous part of the economy. Obesity kills far more people than firearms yet we allow junk food to be sold and consumed everywhere. If saving lives were truly the ultimate rational for gun confiscation then we need to shut down the junk food industry as well as the alcohol industry. Speeding vehicles kill far more people than guns do. Yet we allow high powered cars that travel at 2-3 times the legal speed limit. We should make any sport car or any vehicle that can breach the speed limit illegal right?
When someone plants a bomb and kills 50 innocent people they don't blame the bomb, they blame the monster who planted it. When some monster uses a rifle and kills 50 people they attack legal and peaceful gun owners. When some monster gets drunk and wipes out a family weblame the drunk not the beer company or the maker of the vehicle he or she used.Tobacco kills people every day and is an enormous strain on our limited and borrowed public finances. We should ban tobacco right? If this government could turn gun ownership into something profitable like tobacco, alcohol or gasoline there would be ammunition sold in vending machines everywhere. Taking the pumps and semiautos away from law abiding hunters and shooters will make the liberals feel smug and the dimwits who support them will feel safer. The gangs and criminals will carry on and actually feel safer themselves as they know that even when caught this soft on crime government will treat them like naughty children and won't impose the sentences they deserve. Minimum sentences for gun crimes will disappear and I bet those few who do get sentenced will be out in a fraction of what the laws call for now. Let's cut the BS here. It's not about saving lives at all.

[trimmer21]

Good post Welsh!

Gun control is a necessity. I don't think any rational person would dispute that. I also think we presently have a pretty good system here in Canada overall with the PAL/RPAL system we use. The problem is the left don't actually want gun control, they want complete disarmament. The Australian model with removal of semis and pumps isn't necessary. The media and the way they routinely report misleading if not outright lies whenever a firearm is involved are likely the biggest problem. Politicians and the general public are grossly misinformed about firearms. Those scary black rifles they like to call "assault" rifles are mostly smaller .22 calibered semi autos. Truth is your uncles Remington 742 deer rifle is a more powerful weapon.
The left is ideologically opposed to guns and laws and decisions are not really about public safety and saving lives. If that was the reason then alcohol would be illegal in this country. Alcohol destroys lives and families and causes far more deaths than firearms do yet it is socially accepted and an enormous part of the economy. Obesity kills far more people than firearms yet we allow junk food to be sold and consumed everywhere. If saving lives were truly the ultimate rational for gun confiscation then we need to shut down the junk food industry as well as the alcohol industry. Speeding vehicles kill far more people than guns do. Yet we allow high powered cars that travel at 2-3 times the legal speed limit. We should make any sport car or any vehicle that can breach the speed limit illegal right?
When someone plants a bomb and kills 50 innocent people they don't blame the bomb, they blame the monster who planted it. When some monster uses a rifle and kills 50 people they attack legal and peaceful gun owners. When some monster gets drunk and wipes out a family weblame the drunk not the beer company or the maker of the vehicle he or she used.Tobacco kills people every day and is an enormous strain on our limited and borrowed public finances. We should ban tobacco right? If this government could turn gun ownership into something profitable like tobacco, alcohol or gasoline there would be ammunition sold in vending machines everywhere. Taking the pumps and semiautos away from law abiding hunters and shooters will make the liberals feel smug and the dimwits who support them will feel safer. The gangs and criminals will carry on and actually feel safer themselves as they know that even when caught this soft on crime government will treat them like naughty children and won't impose the sentences they deserve. Minimum sentences for gun crimes will disappear and I bet those few who do get sentenced will be out in a fraction of what the laws call for now. Let's cut the BS here. It's not about saving lives at all.

This is an even better post.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[bushman]

Gun control is a necessity. I don't think any rational person would dispute that. I also think we presently have a pretty good system here in Canada overall with the PAL/RPAL system we use. The problem is the left don't actually want gun control, they want complete disarmament. The Australian model with removal of semis and pumps isn't necessary. The media and the way they routinely report misleading if not outright lies whenever a firearm is involved are likely the biggest problem. Politicians and the general public are grossly misinformed about firearms. Those scary black rifles they like to call "assault" rifles are mostly smaller .22 calibered semi autos. Truth is your uncles Remington 742 deer rifle is a more powerful weapon.
The left is ideologically opposed to guns and laws and decisions are not really about public safety and saving lives. If that was the reason then alcohol would be illegal in this country. Alcohol destroys lives and families and causes far more deaths than firearms do yet it is socially accepted and an enormous part of the economy. Obesity kills far more people than firearms yet we allow junk food to be sold and consumed everywhere. If saving lives were truly the ultimate rational for gun confiscation then we need to shut down the junk food industry as well as the alcohol industry. Speeding vehicles kill far more people than guns do. Yet we allow high powered cars that travel at 2-3 times the legal speed limit. We should make any sport car or any vehicle that can breach the speed limit illegal right?
When someone plants a bomb and kills 50 innocent people they don't blame the bomb, they blame the monster who planted it. When some monster uses a rifle and kills 50 people they attack legal and peaceful gun owners. When some monster gets drunk and wipes out a family weblame the drunk not the beer company or the maker of the vehicle he or she used.Tobacco kills people every day and is an enormous strain on our limited and borrowed public finances. We should ban tobacco right? If this government could turn gun ownership into something profitable like tobacco, alcohol or gasoline there would be ammunition sold in vending machines everywhere. Taking the pumps and semiautos away from law abiding hunters and shooters will make the liberals feel smug and the dimwits who support them will feel safer. The gangs and criminals will carry on and actually feel safer themselves as they know that even when caught this soft on crime government will treat them like naughty children and won't impose the sentences they deserve. Minimum sentences for gun crimes will disappear and I bet those few who do get sentenced will be out in a fraction of what the laws call for now. Let's cut the BS here. It's not about saving lives at all.

Well said terry!!!!!

[delmer]

If this government could turn gun ownership into something profitable like tobacco, alcohol or gasoline there would be ammunition sold in vending machines everywhere.

I love that line!

[welsh]

Two problems, Terry:

1. There's no rational reason to believe any Canadian political party actually intends to ban semi-autos and pumps. This is simply catastrophizing the Liberal majority, spinning out worst case scenarios based on defeated policy motions and statements made in passing that were never reflected in policy.

2. It simply isn't true that "the left" in general wants complete disarmament. The number of people backing complete disarmament is tiny.

[bushman]

[QUOTE=welsh;942258]Two problems, Terry:

1. There's no rational reason to believe any Canadian political party actually intends to ban semi-autos and pumps. This is simply catastrophizing the Liberal majority, spinning out worst case scenarios based on defeated policy motions and statements made in passing that were never reflected in policy.

2. It simply isn't true that "the left" in general wants complete disarmament. The number of people backing complete disarmament is tiny

I hope you are right on both accounts welsh!!!!! Only time will tell.

But what are your thoughts on the comparisons in regards to ,a bomb and the bomber,alcohol and the problems that go with it, obesity and junk food,........and so on????

Let us here your take on these .

[welsh]

But what are your thoughts on the comparisons in regards to ,a bomb and the bomber,alcohol and the problems that go with it, obesity and junk food,........and so on????

Alcohol is actually a very good analogy for gun control, much better than cars, which is what people usually talk about.

Alcohol is not something people need. It has many well known, documented ill effects. And for that reason, we regulate alcohol in various ways (age limits, liquor licensing, penalties for drunk driving). We also see relentless messaging re problems with alcohol, urging people to drink responsibly, not to drink and drive, and to recognize the signs of problem drinking.

We don't seek to ban alcohol. Some people will say that's because Prohibition tried it, and failed, but that's not true. Prohibition failed because of the reason we don't seek to ban alcohol: we don't seek to ban it because lots of people like it. We recognize that people ought to be allowed to do the things they like, and that we need to balance that freedom against the public interest, and we are reasonably comfortable with the balance we have.

Guns are similar: they are not (excepting the remote north) a necessity. They are associated with well documented problems, e.g. higher rates of suicide, higher risks for domestic homicide, etc. We regulate them to mitigate these problems. But the difference is, we are not happy with the balance that is struck. This applies on both sides. Some people continually demand greater controls, and unlike alcohol prohibitionists, they are not seen as loons. Other people insist there should be no controls.

Also, unlike alcohol, guns are a partisan political issue. This is a serious problem.

We don't see drinkers complaining that drunk driving laws infringe on their rights and that people ought to be allowed to drink and drive as long as they don't get drunk and cause accidents, and we don't see one political party pandering to that point of view while another continually proposes lowered blood alcohol limits with the goal of getting to zero. Instead, we have broad agreement that there is a problem and that we have to deal with it. We can put anti-drunk driving ads on TV without a backlash. We can't do that with anything gun-related. We are unable to reach a consensus on guns. This is not purely a problem caused by pro-control activists. There is no shortage of people who would read Terry's first two sentences and call him a Fudd, ready to throw everyone under the bus, etc. The problem is caused by people dedicated to polarizing the discussion (and to perpetuating the idea that the left is coming for your guns) because it serves their ends.

[fishermccann]

Great answer Welsh, bravo.

[Rugger]

This is what I think everyone needs to read again.

I think it would be real neat if we stopped attacking people whose views don't match the conventional wisdom as trolls. Particularly when they are long-standing members of the board.

And again.

I think it would be real neat if we stopped attacking people whose views don't match the conventional wisdom as trolls. Particularly when they are long-standing members of the board.

And again.

I think it would be real neat if we stopped attacking people whose views don't match the conventional wisdom as trolls. Particularly when they are long-standing members of the board.

And again.

I think it would be real neat if we stopped attacking people whose views don't match the conventional wisdom as trolls. Particularly when they are long-standing members of the board.