Chase the PP....

[zoli 16ga.]

I've posted a bit of an update over here, for those interested in PP's, or my journey -

http://www.versatiledogs.com/forum/v...p?f=18&t=20045

Don.

[Redbull]

Thanks for the update zoli 16ga, looking good.........

RB

[yellow dog]

Very nice !

[Ugo]

Zoli, nice job! Sounds like you are making significant progress for sure! Grouse are the King of game birds for many reasons. They can test the best bird dogs. For that matter, even the best dogs fail on grouse more-so than any other species. If you can believe it, some dogs NEVER really learn to handle grouse proficiently. A major dynamic is the opportunities/encounters your dog experiences. This past year was a SUPER year for grouse - best in awhile. Getting into large numbers helps. I only managed to get out for them once this year. How sad......
You mention that your dog did not handle the grouse. The photo shows 3 dead birds. Did you go out with someone else's dog for those birds or get them dog-less? The reason I ask is that killing grouse over a dog that does not "point" them to be flushed by the handler only extends the dog's learning curve. I heard one chap say to me, "We wanted to kill a few so he knew what we were after." That's a human perspective which has no place in the dog's development. Every prematurely flushed bird shot OR for-that-matter, shot at, erodes a young pointing dog's progress by confounding a fundamental rule of the game. Dogs love black and white situations. The minute you introduce some shade of grey, you introduce ambiguity which compromises consistency. It can be tough when you invest in your dog's development but I can assure you of this:
- keeping to the rules early on translates into long term dividends and a generally better experience afield for years to come,
- killing those few early birds over flushed or "flash points" will get you a few extra birds now AND cost you many many birds as the years go by. Furthermore, as the years of undisciplined finds occur, the more distant the goal of consistency becomes which = even more lost birds.
Hope this helps you going forward.
Continued success Zoli and keep the pics coming!

[zoli 16ga.]

Thanks for your advice Ugo, it's very much appreciated!

He was exposed to about 40 grouse this year, and the ones shot, however right or wrong, were when he was out of sight. I think, in my novice mind, that putting a few birds in his mouth, and getting him to search for and retrieve the grouse I shot, was beneficial to some degree. He will now self enter the thick sh.t, and go for a good search, since most all the birds he retrieved were in good grouse habitat. He is not much of a trail runner anymore, and can be cast into good habitat that I see, with good consistency. I sense he now knows where to find them. Looking back, I can see how what I thought was a random search, was actually him scenting a bird and heading that way, and ended in a flush. He actually went into a small clear cut, that I was going to call him out of, but decided it would do him no harm. Bam...a bird flushed from in front of him into the nearest ever tree. He gave it little notice then turned around and ran back to where it flushed from, then another bird flushed in the other direction. This was not a place I would have looked for grouse in, well, not any more. Next year I'm hoping he will stop on point at the edge of the clear cut after scenting the bird.

So currently, I'm getting him back to pointing a good distance out, or better yet, at first sign of scent, which he has caught on quickly to. I'm hoping next year's grouse hunts will bring better results....pointing wise. I will also refrain from shooting any flushing grouse that were not properly pointed. That will be a tough task! And yes, a good grouse dog will take patience and more than one years exposure to grouse. In this case the handler....me....is the weakest link!

Thanks again,

Don.

[werner.reiche]

if you're taking the time to read this thread, what Ugo said is worth reading twice (or three times), particularly this paragraph...

"I heard one chap say to me, "We wanted to kill a few so he knew what we were after." That's a human perspective which has no place in the dog's development. Every prematurely flushed bird shot OR for-that-matter, shot at, erodes a young pointing dog's progress by confounding a fundamental rule of the game. Dogs love black and white situations. The minute you introduce some shade of grey, you introduce ambiguity which compromises consistency."

I'm not a pointer guy, but the same holds for spaniels that break on the flush.

[Ugo]

Zoli, I think I get it. You too are learning and everyone on this forum including this ole coot started somewhere. As is often the case, the experience we gain along the way is not understood until you yourself reach a certain milestone or plateau. You are doing just fine.
Werner and I, as well as others here just want you to succeed by reducing your learning curve however sometimes a person just needs to learn from mistakes. That's how I did it but it can really hurt you and/or your dog going this route. Sometimes the mistakes are recoverable. Sometimes we just accept the dog as is. Bottom line is, keep an open mind, ask questions or clarification, don't accept failure, and most of all, enjoy the journey because it's true - getting there can be half the fun!

[yellow dog]

Zoli, I think I get it. You too are learning and everyone on this forum including this ole coot started somewhere. As is often the case, the experience we gain along the way is not understood until you yourself reach a certain milestone or plateau. You are doing just fine.
Werner and I, as well as others here just want you to succeed by reducing your learning curve however sometimes a person just needs to learn from mistakes. That's how I did it but it can really hurt you and/or your dog going this route. Sometimes the mistakes are recoverable. Sometimes we just accept the dog as is. Bottom line is, keep an open mind, ask questions or clarification, don't accept failure, and most of all, enjoy the journey because it's true - getting there can be half the fun!

Excellent advice Ugo !