"Right" to own firearms

[waterrat]

As I read this, and I get that I am a glass half empty guy, it makes me wonder. WRT the Ian Thomson verdict, which I did not read in it's entirety, leaves loopholes. Most, if not all of us follow all the storage laws pertaining to Firearms and Ammo, and I can assume most vaults/safes/lockers are in basements. I know mine is. So what happens when an armed poo-pump kicks in your back door, well you're another stat on the evening news. However, if your safe storage container/locked ammo vault as well was in your bedroom closet? Where would the charges come from? If you apply the Ian Thomson verdict as precedence, and courts love precedence, meet all the CFO laws, what would be the charge. Now bear in mind you have a dead poo-pump in your kitchen.

I will leave to the armchair lawyers to debate this brain-teaser. Remember, you have meet all the mandated laws, and stopped a deadly threat with equal force.

Are you judged by 12???, option be is carried by six...

[trimmer21]

so, what are the chances to end up in court as defendant? especially, if you use a firearm to defend yourself...
self defense aside; first accusation will be inappropriate firearm storage (criminal code), because you were able to actually defend yourself!

The chances are excellent if excessive force is used which is very clearly defined in law. It applies to every citizen,including the Police.......especially the Police. Therein lies the great danger in the use of deadly force. It better be justified and it better be ironclad because if it's not............

[welsh]

... whereas in the U.S. there is legislation (2nd Amendment rights, castle laws) that expressly permits civilians to use their guns in defense of person or property under a comparatively broad range of circumstances, we have few such legal protections here. We bear a much higher legal burden if we choose to use a gun against another person, even if we feel it is justified.

Ah, yes, I see your point now. True enough.

So what happens when an armed poo-pump kicks in your back door, well you're another stat on the evening news. However, if your safe storage container/locked ammo vault as well was in your bedroom closet? Where would the charges come from?

The basic issue in Thompson was the Crown's belief that he had not kept his guns locked in the safe, but unlocked in his bedside table, based in part on a comment he made to police. He was acquitted because they couldn't prove it.

So in your hypothetical instance in which the only issue is storage, if the safe is in your bedroom and there are no ammo storage questions, and if you didn't make any ill-advised remarks to police, there would likely be no charge. The Crown has to prove the gun was not safely stored.

[JBen]

Welsh would be the one to answer.

We are allowed to defend ourselves with whatever. We aren't allowed to bring guns to knife fights. Its been years since I had to know it but I believe the salient wording is

just enough force as is required to remove the threat.

So to say we cant use a gun is wrong...if I have time to get into my safe, retrieve and load my SG and the threat warrants the use of deadly force...I can.

Kind of crazy I know.
I can keep an Excal Micro within feet of my bed and a baseball bat to make sure he doesn't get back up.....
but a firearm...

Anywho it seems theres a misconception about being defenselss or we cant...We can, but only as much force as is warranted

[trimmer21]

Ah, yes, I see your point now. True enough.



The basic issue in Thompson was the Crown's belief that he had not kept his guns locked in the safe, but unlocked in his bedside table, based in part on a comment he made to police. He was acquitted because they couldn't prove it.

So in your hypothetical instance in which the only issue is storage, if the safe is in your bedroom and there are no ammo storage questions, and if you didn't make any ill-advised remarks to police, there would likely be no charge. The Crown has to prove the gun was not safely stored.

This is why,IMHO, it's always better to use a long gun than a handgun due to the different storage requirements. If Mr.Thompson had done that,he likely wouldn't have been convicted of anything.

[Waftrudnir]

can anyone explain to me why we are not allowed to use pepper spray for self defense in Canada?
I'm not talking about bear spray on people - I mean the stuff that is somewhat safe, but still quite unpleasant and sufficient to deter the average attacker.

[trimmer21]

can anyone explain to me why we are not allowed to use pepper spray for self defense in Canada?
I'm not talking about bear spray on people - I mean the stuff that is somewhat safe, but still quite unpleasant and sufficient to deter the average attacker.

I don't think it's illegal. My daughter carries Bear Spray with her when listing or showing rural property for sale. Like anything else,it depends on the circumstances when used,the same as a baseball bat,hammer,screwdriver,telephone book,rock,2X4,tree branch.....

[Gilroy]

can anyone explain to me why we are not allowed to use pepper spray for self defense in Canada?
I'm not talking about bear spray on people - I mean the stuff that is somewhat safe, but still quite unpleasant and sufficient to deter the average attacker.

Well you can carry pepper spray to deter a dog attack (posties do carry).If your out walking and somebody demands your wallet while armed with a knife I believe you could use pepper spray.If asked why you were carrying it your answer would be to deter a dog attack. The answer would not be "to use as a weapon if I get robbed".That would open you up to carry a concealed weapon charge, ie you had no intention to use it as a weapon.

The Crown would have to prove "you intended to use it as a weapon".

You can carry a folding buck knife in your pants pocket, if you were ever stopped and searched by the police and asked why you had the knife you don,t say "I need it to protect myself" that would end up in carrying a concealed weapon charge.But you could say
"I use it to cut open oranges".

[MikePal]

in a nutshell:

from: http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/02/05/...r-pepper-spray

"It might be, depending on how strong it is," said Solomon Friedman, Ottawa criminal defence lawyer and firearms law expert.


"I've certainly seen people charged with carrying a concealed weapon."

The murky area can also surround how it's carried and the intent of the person carrying it.

If you are intending to hurt someone with it, or actually do, that is illegal.

Carrying bear spray is legal for use against bears. Carrying bear spray in the city where you're unlikely to see a bear?


You could be charged with carrying a concealed or restricted weapon. And actually using it as a weapon can mean a host of other charges, including assault with a weapon and administering a noxious thing.

It is illegal to carry a product designed for personal protection against a human attack, according to the Criminal Code of Canada.

When it comes to mace, which has a higher concentration of oleoresin capsicum, it is flat-out prohibited in Canada.


Using pepper spray to ward off an attack, like a Gatineau store clerk did in 2012, does not necessarily mean charges if it is a legitimate self-defence.

But in the case where pepper spray was unleashed on a city bus in Nov., two 15-year-old boys faced a combined 18 charges.

The man in the courthouse incident, accused of using Spike dog repellent, was hit with several charges, including carrying a concealed weapon and assault with a weapon.

"I think the big issue is, it's restricted," said  Ottawa Police Const. J.P. Vincelette.

And Mace, a more dangerous substance, is considered a prohibited weapon, which makes it illegal.
Under the Criminal Code of Canada, such prohibited weapons can be "any device designed to be used for the purpose of injuring, immobilizing or otherwise incapacitating any person by the discharge therefrom of
(a) tear gas, Mace or other gas, or
(b) any liquid, spray, powder or other substance that is capable of injuring, immobilizing or otherwise incapacitating any person.
There can also be provincial restrictions when it comes to pepper sprays.

[Waftrudnir]

It is illegal to carry a product designed for personal protection against a human attack, according to the Criminal Code of Canada.

that's exactly what I remember.
those sprays have been used around the world for decades, including some very left leaning European countries.
so one has to really wonder why comparatively safe countermeasures (both for victim and attacker) are illegal under criminal law in Canada.