An indirect answer to : "Peering into my crystal-ball"

[Oddmott]

Please terry... try to educate me.

I know that typically ALL provision and administration of health care is under the authority of Provinces. However, for MANY things (mental health especially) most of the programs and facilities relied heavily on Federal funding.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly for the purposes of mental health, Parliament has the power under sections 91(1A) and 91(3) to legislate with respect to “public debt and property” and “raising of money by any system of taxation.” These powers, often collectively referred to as the “federal spending power,” allow Parliament to spend money on initiatives of concern to Canadians in any area.6 The federal spending power has enabled Parliament to establish several federal initiatives on mental health, which will be discussed below.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/LOP/Re.../2013-76-e.htm

Have a good read.

At no point did i claim that total healthcare funding to provinces was cut. It was funding specifically to the mental health initiatives that was cut. Without it, the entire system crumbled. It's no secret that dozens of these facilities were shut down in the 2000s, and the poor buggers who'd been living in them were essentially tossed out on the streets.

There was TONS of very specific funding initiatives that were targeted to be cut, all for services that most Canadians never even think of or knew existed. It's what Conservatives do. It's why we vote them in. They trim the fat, but they always take a good chunk of muscle with it.

[Oddmott]

read my post again but slowly this time. What I said is there are thousands of refugee claimants that have been kicked to the back of the line because they are not front page news and weren't useful to Trudough's political ambitions. Many of them are in far more need of aid He's the idiot who made it a campaign issue with idiotic promises that were logistically impossible and unsafe. Harper didn't start the electoral refugee quota game. Trudough did and that pretty well shows how shallow he is. Then again he is the guy who billed charities and school boards to read speaches. Sunny days......

That's not the point i was addressing. The part i was addressing was:

The other thing is we have people living in the streets here who most times were once productive tax payers who fell on hard times and many times health issues. We should make sure these people aren't living in boxes and alleys before putting up "refugees" in Toronto hotels where they complain they weren't given better accommodations.

I completely agree with your rundown of how Trudeau turned this issue into THE issue of the election, and agree that the Libs didn't handle any of it appropriately until they adopted the original Cons' plan almost exactly.

I just don't agree with the whole moaning lament about helping those good ol home grown Canadian needy BS. The initiatives are in place to help those people. Those who choose to not use the services provided are making that choice. Or, they're mentally ill and unable to make that choice. Either way, it's not on Trudeau or any PM to prioritize them over anyone else.

[terrym]

Please terry... try to educate me.

I know that typically ALL provision and administration of health care is under the authority of Provinces. However, for MANY things (mental health especially) most of the programs and facilities relied heavily on Federal funding.


http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/LOP/Re.../2013-76-e.htm

Have a good read.

At no point did i claim that total healthcare funding to provinces was cut. It was funding specifically to the mental health initiatives that was cut. Without it, the entire system crumbled. It's no secret that dozens of these facilities were shut down in the 2000s, and the poor buggers who'd been living in them were essentially tossed out on the streets.

There was TONS of very specific funding initiatives that were targeted to be cut, all for services that most Canadians never even think of or knew existed. It's what Conservatives do. It's why we vote them in. They trim the fat, but they always take a good chunk of muscle with it.

In what years did Harper cut Health care funding? Wynne decides how it gets spent. End of discussion.

[JBen]

you do realize that health care is a Provincial jurisdiction right? Also I don't remember Harper overriding the healthcare accords and reducing funding to Provinces by 70%, pretty sure he wouldn't have got back in and certainly not given a majority. In fact I think health care funding increased every year Harper was in office. Usually double the inflation rate. Now if the Provinces chose to cut services like mental health ( or vision care or physiotherapy ) the Feds have no say in that. So that would stick to McLiar and Wynnocio. How healthcare money is spent is not decided by the Feds.
As to what I think about the state of mental health today you don't know me or have a clue as to what I have seen or been exposed to. But by all means carry on.

Blows my mind people don't know this, and blame Harper for the brutal shape healthcare is in, especially here in Ontario. Just one of god knows how many articles on it. And when blaming Harper for their god awful bungling and gutting of Healthcare doesn't work. Well there's always Mike Harris.

http://www.intelligencer.ca/2014/12/...o-shame-harper

how many Ontarians are without GPs alone?
answer 800,000

how many GPs are they (fed/prov) drumming up for refugees.
All of them.

Dont get me wrong. But to pretend or believe tax paying people aren't getting bent when there are soooooo many problems here at home. Just naive
And even if someone wants to blame Harper for all the mental health facilities that closed. Um, maybe if mcWynne and the Liberals here hadn't wasted ungodly sums in scandals, pandering to Unions, so much debt with nothing to show and sooooo much more.
They wouldn't have needed to close them?
I know radical thinking


Anyone know or want to guess how much it cost a tax paying parent with a dependant who lives with them for many years.......and can't get good paying jobs due to their medical condition ......and do they get relief in their taxes?

So again, don't be naive to believe tax paying Canadians who need help aren't getting bent.

Over to you G

[fishermccann]

Thanks JB... My doctor retired last year. It took me 1 day and a couple of phone calls to find a new one, granted I live in the GTA and it might be different in the sticks. I worked in long term care for 32 years . In the last 5-6 years we were getting people who had just turned 18 being placed into care facilities designed for seniors, because all the group homes were being closed. So now we have seniors who have led a full and rewarding life, in rooms with teenagers who have been institutionalized their entire life and know and understand nothing. Those teenagers will grow up and will be in that same room forever as the seniors around them die. ( average length of stay of seniors , in a LTC facility is 8 months ).

[JBen]

There is a vast difference G.
Just here in Whitby anytime a GP lets it be known they are accepting new clients, the group Im a member of ( 900 strong, mostly single moms/dads) post the info so those without and looking might get one and there are a lot. I imagine as a person moves further away from the major centres, it gets harder and harder and harder. And do know that the Prov spent a lot of time and effort finding GPs for every refugee....front of the line......and your welcome G

M ( I hope you don't think I was chirping at "you') but consider this.
While I am not extremely familiar with various regs, what qualifies and what doesn't consider this.

We all know how expensive it is to raise children these days. Well what happens when a dependent ( a child who has been diagnosed with A to Z ) ends up living with mom and dad well beyond the age of 21...And mom/dad can no longer claim them as a dependant (as if that goes far enough to begin with), when their insurance plans no longer cover meds ( there are exceptions that can be made), and the child while functioning is really destined for a life of minimum wage jobs. So the child themself can't and won't even quality for assistance......unless they don't work and instead opt for wealth fare....

And that parent or parents who pay a ton of taxes, are themselves struggling to get by , especially these days, can get no help, or relief.
Do they go bankrupt?
Do they "toss them out into the world".

Alternatively what about parents that now hitting 60 or 70 and suffering from A to Z say dementia and that middle class peon with children (him, her themselves) and are getting hammered by taxation, hydro, can't save and doesn't have a Pension....

What?

yea but for the grace of god....