Wynne's 2016 Budget

[JBen]

It wasn't pleasant

i blame politicians who who worry more about winning, or staying in power than all the peons, both public and private. Then the unions who are really no different. The care more about their power, than their members they claim to serve. And finally, the electorate.

PS YD.
we could blame Harris for some of this to. Downloading onto Municipalities, so up go land taxes. Certain areas hit hard, so lots of hiring.
we could blame Rae to. Who really triggered it all. Harris did things trying to fix that mess, McGuinty did things trying fix some things Harris went to far.

back then, the reports and articles showed severe cuts to PS, brain drain to the the U.S. (Doctors)...
today, those same studies show...

16 years to fix healthcare.
its worse today

[fishermccann]

Some people will never be satisfied until , the government of the day, breaks or refuses to fulfill a signed contract , bargained in good faith, and cut PS numbers , salaries and pensions 25%. Some feel that once that happens all will be right with the world.

[mosquito]

Let's look at some reality, the gov't seems to have no problems with trying to hire... The province is "only" hiring in 115 categories of jobs when I looked... and if you put in $80,000 there are 41 titles of them that fit, probably atleast twice that number of jobs themselves.

https://www.gojobs.gov.on.ca/Search.aspx

Here is a new one with 12 openings.
https://www.gojobs.gov.on.ca/Preview...sh&JobID=90709
OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY INSPECTOR-INDUSTRIAL (12)
Organization:Ministry of Labour
Salary:$1,321.19 - $1,624.55 Per Week
Location:Mississauga, Newmarket, Central Region; Ottawa, East Region; Sudbury, Thunder Bay, North Region; North York, Toronto Region; Hamilton, London, West Region
Closing Date:Wednesday, April 13, 2016 11:59 pm EDT


The fulltimers that are union can count on about the equivalent of 30% of their salary in benefits, benefits that far exceed even the banks usually.

So those 12 positions filled at the bottom pay scale and a 50 week year would make $66050 and * 12
$792,600 and add 30% for benefits and there's a $1M per year without office space, equipment etc included.


Another example if you are a student looking for a summer job ... in the one category there are 747 positions for:
STUDENT - PARK RANGER
https://www.gojobs.gov.on.ca/Preview...sh&JobID=90205

Then another 152 and a bunch of Service counter... so about 1,000 summer students.

[werner.reiche]

Some people will never be satisfied until , the government of the day, breaks or refuses to fulfill a signed contract , bargained in good faith, and cut PS numbers , salaries and pensions 25%. Some feel that once that happens all will be right with the world.

"Bargained in good faith" - oh like bribing unions?

PS expenses need to be cut. I don't think anyone's arguing that's not an issue - except for the PS unions and their members. How to do it? No one has the answer, but it's obvious - both numbers and compensation.

When you're sinking in a leaky boat - which do you do first? Fix the leak or start bailing?

[JBen]

Hmmm.
100 colleagues of mine signed contracts to Gord......Today we all are out of work....
Your point?

Many during the meeting yesterday raised questions. A couple of people asked "We are salary and bonus". Are bonuses factored in to any severance amounts (assuming theres money to pay everyone severance). Lawyer "Well companies say things like "discretionary"...A couple more asked "Under continuous packages, if I get a settlement of 1 years compensation, most of us know we will be lucky to find jobs that pay the same. So if I find a job in 6 months, but it pays 20,000 less ( maybe one of our University and more educated people who has been earning 65,000) takes a job as a Financial Advisor that pays an average 47,000 (<<<Something unemployment numbers don't show/report on...I wonder, of the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people who have lost jobs since 2008 landed in that boat) meanwhile Taxes, Hydro, Sunlist List keep going up, up and up.....Does the Co owe me the difference?

Am curious Gord.
Life isn't fair. Ever here the cliche "we are entitled to nothing"? Why do you believe for only some it should be.

See also Werners point about "good faith".
See OPP getting 8.5% and what thats doing to many rural municipalities. Too bad, so sad for you serf?
See more...
********

Professional Athletes (who btw are screaming about ORPP)...When they sign contracts, and for whatever reason become too expensive. What happens?

Definition of Insanity?
See Ontario doing the same things over and over and over.
Has anyone said....Well Gee if there weren't sooooo many people in the education earning 90,000 or more (including the boards) who will have lavish Pensions that are paid for life ( read up on DBPs and DCPs or pay a Financial Advisor 47,000 to take care of your future)..Instead had a compensation package that was slightly less somewhere be it their pay or their Pension (maybe once they start earning north of XXk, they could fund their own Pension for example, we could hire more and keep class sizes at 20 or under? Heck maybe if can find 10b in savings ( you do understand how big "PS" is right?) we might not have to lay off any of the PS peons (those who don't have it really good either)...And just because. If the provinces revenue is 120b, and total PS cost is 55%. So lets call it 70b. Finding 10b somewhere/somehow is a huge whopping reduction of 14%.

111,000 people earning the minimum of 100,000 = ??? Lets average that and say 111,000 earning $200,000. How much is that?

Novel idea right? And isn't you G who always say tax the wealthy more?
Why not compensate some of them less? Especially when, the people paying it have no choice and are getting crushed..
*******

In theory Werner, between growth in the economy and population growth...In time if all PS accepted total freezes.....For years until those two things.....

Problem being population growth is trending down ( Yet PS grows)
Problem being the economy is still sucking wind and no-one is predicting boom years ahead.
Lots of reason for the economy sucking wind. Funny, the politicians and Unions never mention
Private having less and less disposable income. Aka people are spending less.
/wonder why

[werner.reiche]

Employment contracts frequently get broken. There's a severance payment and that's it. And a private sector severance is "as required by law", not the golden handshake the PS gets.

fishermccan, it's obvious that you have spent a long time in the PS and don't know much about how life is in the private sector. Sure we all wish we could work in the PS, but some of us have to work outside of it to pay Ontario's (and Canada's) bills. Even though PS workers pay income tax, you do realise that is no net gain to the province/Country? It's money that *doesn't exist*.

[JBen]

As I said Werner, it wasn't pleasant.

Another question yesterday. Many of us have suffered damage to our professional reputations due to A) actions in Germany and B) bad press by the German Authorities. Meaning what happens when some of get asked "Oh, you worked there".....

next applicant please.

Is there any compensation for that?

[werner.reiche]

Re: the "tax the wealthy more"...they don't realise that the "wealthy" are those about 80K and up.
Re: OPP and rural municipalities - what happened there is criminal, and the province is preventing them from going back to local policing by calling for standards that local municipalities can't meet. They are doing the same with local volunteer fire departments, but at least for now, the volunteers have been managing to keep up.

[JBen]

Yep, seems like many think earning 80k is the norm. Despite the fact 75k is the mean duo and most of those don't have Pensions that pay a defined percentage of earnings (often typically the average of the highest 7 years).........

I have no problems being "open/honest".
Hey G, back in 2008 my income was well over 100,000. This year well nowhere near that. Given things, everyone here (except the lowest paid) willingly "renogiated our contracts".....Difference between between lay-offs and keeping everyone employed..
Food for thought.
******

YD. Guys I hunt with?
Retired OPP (Chatam/Kent/Walpole area)
Retired Fire Capt: Chatam/Kent
Active FF (Chatam/Kent)
Active paramedic (Chatam Kent)

Know all about 24 hour shifts, the move to combine all 3 services into one (Police/Fire/Para) and more....

Good friend. Parole officer Orillia. She to knows they have jack squat to complain about. Rants about how the OPP fly people up to Thunder Bay for meetings ( Apparently they are a few miles further North than barrie) and on and on and on.....

Some seem to think those of us who can look at many things and see that yep....
We advocate for widescale indiscriminate cuts to "PS". Screw them all we say, reduce everyone's salary 25%
Am pretty my two nieces in education who work with special needs
Am pretty sure my Niece and Aunt who are EAs
Good friend that is a Teacher with 18years...Knows they are over compensated, once they start getting up there. Especially given they only work 3/4s of a year. But teachers with say less than 10years? Not so much....The many who cant get hired on full time because.....Know a great kid, after 4 years of trying to find a teaching career. He's now a glazier........But as she says, what are we supposed to do...fire tens of thousands of Teachers who are "up there"?

No argument some area's have seen cuts, are seeing cuts. read the links.
Hiring growth exceeds
Growth exceeds inflation
losses are far less than whats "out there"

and on and on.

Just because I can look at things and see problems, doesn't mean I think we should start lopping off heads.....

[fratri]

Maybe more people should stop looking from the curb, take your shoes off and come walk on the tall, green, lush soft grass, it will make you feel better.... it's always greener on the other side.

Talk about whining....if you don't like what you are doing, try and do something about it, life is too short to be complaining all the time.