Wynne's 2016 Budget

[werner.reiche]

JBen - admitting to the problem is something the Ontario liberals are finally getting around to.
They haven't got a clue as to what to do about it - when the answer is obvious.
As far as lopping heads - it's not the answer, but its part of it.
I think reducing compensation is a more significant part of it.
The PS wants none of either of those.
But its coming....look no further than Greece.
Up until now, its all been on the backs of the private sector - minimal raised over the past 15 years, no pensions. The ORPP is another tax and it is aimed at exactly the people it pretends to protect. Its the liberal politicians and the PS setting up to give private sector workers a screwing unprecedented in Canada.

[werner.reiche]

Maybe more people should stop looking from the curb, take your shoes off and come walk on the tall, green, lush soft grass, it will make you feel better.... it's always greener on the other side.

Talk about whining....if you don't like what you are doing, try and do something about it, life is too short to be complaining all the time.

So your saying we should all go work in the PS??? Who's going to pay the bills then?

[terrym]

You can't put the genie back in the bottle. The unions have taken control of the Provincial government and with them basically buying off elections now I can't see it ever changing. The only tool left by management is to eliminate jobs so that will continue. If the union decided that full employment at 85% of current wages was better than looming layoffs then more people would retain PS jobs and servic levels wouldn't have to be cut. That will never happen. A 15% wage cut would put the PS back into line with what the taxpayers can actually pay. Every government has caved to PS unions so its not entirely a Liberal thing but lets not kid ourselves either.

[fratri]

So your saying we should all go work in the PS??? Who's going to pay the bills then?

Not at all, what I am saying is there are a lot of good jobs out there, Private or Public, If one isn't happy with their job, or how they are being treated/paid, they should look for employment elsewhere.
You can't blame a Public Servant for taking a job that pays/offers XXX no more than you can blame a Private Employee for taking a job that pays/offers XXX. There are a lot of good and bad jobs out there.
Everyone wants a good job, but good jobs are hard to come by because not too many people want to give them up.

[JBen]

/dons sarcasm hat
Maybe Fatri, the problem began when those of you in PS with better security, better benefits and pensions ( and do note Fatri, pensions are a hot topic everywhere, everyone knows those without are facing bleak futures) but lower pay. See howls to enhance CPP, see ORPP, see Hydro employee's whinning about having to contribute 39% now instead of 31%. See so many things about life expectancy and more.....

Cried about greener grass loud enough and long enough until you had it all. See also all the cries when Harris was gutting certain narrow parts......And now when the shoe is on the other foot and its brutally obvious there are problems.

/takes sarcasm hat off

[JBen]

Fatri re "good jobs"
One of, if not the best book ever written for those who find themselves unemployed.
You should read it, it's quite sobering.
https://www.amazon.ca/What-Color-You...=1&*entries*=0

Or simply go to the authors site.
http://www.jobhuntersbible.com/articles

Curious Fatri. I wonder if people in PS who are reading this will actively participate and an informal poll.

How many times have you been laid off.
Me: twice and narrowly escaped a third time back in 96
I have a lot of PS in my family and friends. Don't know a single one of them to ever.........

/edit add
Regardless, are there jobs out there? yep
Thousands and thousands (tens of them) of job seekers to. Statiscally each job that's posted gets around 1,000 applications......
Our head of operations..joined us 3 years ago.....He was unemployed 2 years looking prior to that

[fratri]

Work ethics....(individual choice)

This is the way I see it.....
If someone gave me $10,000 more for my current job/title/position would I work harder....no of course not... I work and do my job the best I can as it is right now, more money won't help me work harder....It might improve my living standards but won't help me do my job better.

By the same token, if someone gave me $10,000 less for my current job/title/position would I work less......no of course not. I work and do my job the best I can regardless of the pay. If I wasn't doing the best job I could (regardless of the pay), I would look to improve or find a different/better job.

Now with that said...all things being equal/same jobs....

If job A paid better than job B, I would take job A, but if that wasn't available, I would take job B and still work like I had job A....

I worked in the private sector full time for 12 years (right after high school-no pension-no benefits) before hitting a crossroad in my life.(looking back, it was a blessing in disguise and I am grateful for the chance I had and choice I made). I had to restart my life, and with the support of my wife decided to go back to school. It wasn't easy with a mortgage and one income but with lots of hard work and some sacrifices we made it through. Coming from a European background (all construction workers in the family-I am the only white collar of the bunch now) I know how hard it can be but hearing about how easy/good some of us got it, is just annoying....

[fratri]

A good friend of mine, was a mutual funds manager for a downtown Toronto firm. He used to get gold coins for Christmas bonuses... He was tired of doing the downtown Toronto thing and decided to try something different. With the support of his family and friends decided to try cooking for a living. 3 years later I find him working as an assistant chef for a golf course making $18/hr. One day he hopes to be head chef maybe even do some catering on the side. Why, because it's want he wants to do. I bet he works just as hard being that assistant chef ($18/hr) than he did when he was making over 6 figures (mutual funds manager).....

Life is great when we still have the ability to make choices, like sucks when we no longer can make our own choices... Like some of my older friends say, it's just nice being on this side (upside) of the grass today.

[JBen]

Nicely said.
Hope you understand, when I said /sarcasm on.../sarcasm off...Translation...Don't really mean it....but there are kernals of truth (soo many strikes during times when)...or I could spend 20 seconds and link about 6 loud "cry" sympathy campaigns from
RNsa
EAs
Drs
Correctional Services
hence the /smiley at the end.

how easy/good some of us got it, is just annoying....

Yep.

That said and part of the problem today (imo) is that, despite so many warnings (going back to 2008-2011) and even today there are still tons who don't seem to appreciate the impacts "things" (meaning lots of things) are having on lots. Including people in PS.

As I said a week or so ago (here or in another thread). While I don't necessarily agree with his solution, I give Smokey some credit, he atleast.....

We have serious problems here in Ont. Not the least which is what things are doing to "the typical working stiffs"...With so many Boomers now retiring...........and 800,000 Ontarians without GPs.
Gut the MNR further to hire nowhere near enough?
Lay off more Nurses?
Hammer people further, many of whom...
/dead horse

Why?
/points to those that created the mess and those that have had a large helping hand and refuse to really "help out".

Personally don't think cuts (layoffs) to PS are the answer. For starters, the jobs numbers that came out last week show unemployment up everywhere. Nationally its up to 7.3 (seems like that number has been stubborn at 7% since 2008), and many of the full time positions lost have been replaced with Part Time positions. And much more that might be said....

Ottawa we find out next week is ballooning deficit by 30billion
Ontario we know is already in the crapper and taxes and other cost are exploding.

Cant wait to see the latest SS list

[fishermccann]

When I worked in a long term care facility with 300 PS workers, one person, the administrator was on the sunshine list. 80% earned less than 40 thousand, why because the work force was-is made up of part time workers, who never get 40 hours a week. They do it so that the city does not have to pay the benefits due full time employees. But that also affects the continuity of care for the residents of the facility, ie. different nurse or caretaker every day.