Worried about your Health and your children's ???

[Fox]

Good to know. Didn't know that about chickens, but it's hard to believe their bones are so weak (grocery chicken) just due to cross-breeding. I can literally crush the bones with my teeth. You grow your own "original" chickens ... what are their bones like?


Let's talk about farmed animals ... do they get antibiotics on a regular basis? You're saying there's no growth supplements (nothing in their feed)? What is the impact of phosphate added to their feed? How do pesticides impact the quality of animal meat? What about their environment (cages, animal waste, etc), how does that impact animal health and meat quality?


Remember, my comparison is what we get today vs. food that was grown say 60 years ago. I'm willing to bet meat from animals 60 years ago was WAY more healthy than you get today. Not to confuse this with storage and preservation ... I know today that we have better storage methods and preservatives (but that's a whole lot more discussion ... use of nitrates ... carcinogenic reagent).

Regards.

What you have to remember is how dangerous the stuff that was put on crops 60 years ago, DDT was used in Canada from 1945 until 1985, so be aware that 60 years ago does not mean safe. One of the huge issues is that people believe that "Organic" means safe but organic does not mean that there are no fertilizers, herbicides or pesticides used, just that some arbitrary group determined what organic farmers area allowed to use on their crops. Natural additives are not regulated as well as synthetic and the dosages are not regulated as highly either, meaning that the possibility for "Organic" crops to have higher doses of the identical chemical as synthetic alternatives is a very real thing. Think back to the controversy around the natural hotdogs from schneiders, they said no preservatives but in tests it was proved that they had higher nitrate and nitrite values of any of the other hot dogs, why might this be? The main ingredient to keep from getting botulism in the hot dogs was an extract of celery, celery stay looking good for a long time but this is due to the extremely high amount of nitrates and nitrites naturally occurring in the celery. Due to the fact that there is so much variation in the celery batches the people are schneiders needed to be sure that their food was safe and did not kill anyone so they put in more celery extract to be sure that enough natural preservatives existed. This exact same thing can and does happen in "organic" foods, higher doses of these naturally occurring chemicals are put on the crops and can lead to higher amounts in our food. Farmers are already screwed when it comes to wages, they work more hours for a lot less pay then anyone else in the work force, they strive to put the least amount of chemicals on the crops as needed as that saves money and keeps them safer. I have family in the cash cropping business, they use rotational planting, this is a way to use the crops themselves to replenish the fields and reduces the amount of spraying needed by far.

As for chicken, the reason the bones crush from store bought is that the birds are only between 8 and 10 weeks old, they are designed through cross breeding to grow fast and not for long live, this may bring the bleeding hearts screaming but you can afford $5/lb on chicken but you cannot afford $20/lb.

For antibiotics there are standards that need to be kept on what birds can be given and what cannot, we will only give antibiotics when they are stick, not to prevent. This is a point of contention as the media will have us all believe that these animals are pumped full of stuff from day one and it is just not true. Medicated chick starter is used but the withdrawl time on that stuff is just days after that feed is stopped and laying hens are not allowed to be given antibiotics as the eggs would need to be tossed at that point in time. The feed that is used is a crumb, it is a mix of grains, vitamins and minerals ground up and pushed through a die to form a pellet which is broken up into different sizes for use with different sized animals. There are no growing crumbs that I know of available that are medicated and if it is added that would make them illegal for sale for food in Canada without the proper withdrawl time before harvest.

Preserving back in the day was not very good either, people talk about the lack of nitrates and nitrites back in the day but have a read, many of the old recipes (I have a ton of books from the 40s on preserving) use saltpeter, not salt but saltpeter and some use hardwood ash, all of these things have nitrates in them and again and amounts that are not easily measured, which can lead to over dosing the meat.

Like I said, farmers are not trying to kill you, they are trying to feed you and do it at a cost that you will be able to afford.

I have heritage birds, my roosters need to get to about 20 weeks old before there is enough meat on the bones to justify killing them and at that point they are already too tough and stringy for 80% of the city folk who tell me I need to feed only organic and boycott big farms. I know I will be feeding my family healthy food, including canning, sausage making, eggs, poultry and rabbit meat, freezing and smoking and I have no fear of feeding them non-organic, I actually feel like I know what is going into them better when the food does not have a certified organic label, more data on the non-organic than the organic.

[seabast]

I too am skeptical about organic produce. I'm not sure on the grace period or wait time on ground that can be certified glysophate free. I should look into it. We grow a lot of them. About 400 ac. One step in the right direction is I read that one of the major soy bean processors are going to start and only accept non gmo beans. Ours should qualify.

Good to hear we are somewhat going to a "safe" direction.
When I was back home last Chrimass my cousins, farmers, were telling me how the antibiotic used in the beef and chicken "factories" in US and Europe couldn't keep up with deceases, infection and all... From what they were telling they have to back up and reduce the # of heads they are raising. Animals are just like human we are not meant to live in a tinny space and mother nature is making sure to keep us pm track!

[mooboy76]

Good to know. Didn't know that about chickens, but it's hard to believe their bones are so weak (grocery chicken) just due to cross-breeding. I can literally crush the bones with my teeth. You grow your own "original" chickens ... what are their bones like?


[SNIP]
Regards.

Keep in mind those birds are only six to eight weeks old, probably on the low end in the commercial world.

[JoePa]

All this makes me think of the big picture - we are all going to die someday - no matter what you do - you can't avoid it - do you want to live too long - to a point where you don't know anyone - or can't walk anymore - or need constant care - I don't know about you but I don't - so how does this relate to what we eat - where are a lot more factors that will effect your life than the food you eat - you might say that you are what you eat - sounds good but it ain't completely true - there are a lot of factors that will determine how healthy you are - your genetics - where you live - the air you breath - your life style - your activity - on and on -

So what's my point - live in moderation and accept what happens - try to eat healthy but don't worry about it too much - I'm sure we all know people who lived very healthy lives only to die early and other who smoked, drank, ate poorly and lived for a very long time

In my own family - my wife was very health conscious - purchased a lot of stuff from the health stores - ate organic as much as possible, read the ingredients in the food she bought. make just about everything from scratch, didn't smoke, didn't drink etc, - she passed away from cancer at 62 - her father was just the opposite - he drank like a fish - smoked like a fire - ate terrible (raw bacon sandwiches) - didn't exercise - did everything you shouldn't do - yet he lived to 87 - go figure that out - so what6's your point Joe - the moral of the story is - try to eat healthy but don't go overboard - you don't want to live too long anyway -

[jaycee]

you don't want to live too long anyway

Maybe you don't but there are others that do , and they also do not want to see their children and grandchildren die off at early ages due to some illness that is brought on by needless chemicals .

[MarkB]

Fox, okay let me clarify what I am trying to say ... maybe in Canada 60 years ago we had all those issues. My reference point is my father, growing up in Italy, able to grow his own crops and animals (which was the common way of doing things back then). They did not apply pesticides or antiobiotics. The animals and crops were much tastier. Look at carots now adays, they are bland, nothing like they used to taste. I also ate a wild pineapple in Hawaii, I couldn't believe what I was tasting ... it was awesome, no acidity at all.

We may be growing more food, but that doesn't mean it's healthier than it was, and it certainly doesn't mean it tastes better (that I know for a fact has been compromised based on what we use to get when I was a kid).

Again, my reference is home grown crops, without the use of chemicals and cross-breeding. You know, the good ol' days.

[MarkB]

All this makes me think of the big picture - we are all going to die someday - no matter what you do - you can't avoid it - do you want to live too long - to a point where you don't know anyone - or can't walk anymore - or need constant care - I don't know about you but I don't - so how does this relate to what we eat - where are a lot more factors that will effect your life than the food you eat - you might say that you are what you eat - sounds good but it ain't completely true - there are a lot of factors that will determine how healthy you are - your genetics - where you live - the air you breath - your life style - your activity - on and on -

So what's my point - live in moderation and accept what happens - try to eat healthy but don't worry about it too much - I'm sure we all know people who lived very healthy lives only to die early and other who smoked, drank, ate poorly and lived for a very long time

In my own family - my wife was very health conscious - purchased a lot of stuff from the health stores - ate organic as much as possible, read the ingredients in the food she bought. make just about everything from scratch, didn't smoke, didn't drink etc, - she passed away from cancer at 62 - her father was just the opposite - he drank like a fish - smoked like a fire - ate terrible (raw bacon sandwiches) - didn't exercise - did everything you shouldn't do - yet he lived to 87 - go figure that out - so what6's your point Joe - the moral of the story is - try to eat healthy but don't go overboard - you don't want to live too long anyway -

Agree on moderation, but I can't agree on picking examples of people who do not care for their diets and live to be 90 years old as telling me we should all do that.

There will always be the exception of a person who takes care of themselves, but passes on at too early of an age. My condelences to you for your wife. I can imagine in that situation anyone would say, what was the point. But I think your wife set a good example. Many will live to have healthy, satisfying retirements if they take care of themselves in their 20's, 30's and 40's. For every person who eats well and passes away too young, there's 100 people who don't take care of themselves and pass away also too young.

And yes, there will always be the person who we envy, who can eat whatever they like, and do whatever they like, and somehow against all doctors' predictions, will outlive all of us. I for one know that if I didn't take care of myself, I'll be dead before I hit 60.

[jaycee]

Fox, okay let me clarify what I am trying to say ... maybe in Canada 60 years ago we had all those issues. My reference point is my father, growing up in Italy, able to grow his own crops and animals (which was the common way of doing things back then). They did not apply pesticides or antiobiotics. The animals and crops were much tastier. Look at carots now adays, they are bland, nothing like they used to taste. I also ate a wild pineapple in Hawaii, I couldn't believe what I was tasting ... it was awesome, no acidity at all.

We may be growing more food, but that doesn't mean it's healthier than it was, and it certainly doesn't mean it tastes better (that I know for a fact has been compromised based on what we use to get when I was a kid).

Again, my reference is home grown crops, without the use of chemicals and cross-breeding. You know, the good ol' days.

Good Post! , as for Fox, he wasn't around back in the "good ol' days" so he wouldn't know about them.

[Fox]

Fox, okay let me clarify what I am trying to say ... maybe in Canada 60 years ago we had all those issues. My reference point is my father, growing up in Italy, able to grow his own crops and animals (which was the common way of doing things back then). They did not apply pesticides or antiobiotics. The animals and crops were much tastier. Look at carots now adays, they are bland, nothing like they used to taste. I also ate a wild pineapple in Hawaii, I couldn't believe what I was tasting ... it was awesome, no acidity at all.

We may be growing more food, but that doesn't mean it's healthier than it was, and it certainly doesn't mean it tastes better (that I know for a fact has been compromised based on what we use to get when I was a kid).

Again, my reference is home grown crops, without the use of chemicals and cross-breeding. You know, the good ol' days.

You are confusing home grown food with grocery store food, 2 entirely different animals and you cannot compare.

You really don't think cross breeding did not exist before 1956? Maybe you should brush up on where domesticated animals and agriculture came from, a heck of a lot longer than 60 years.

Sorry, good old days? We are able to produce enough food to keep our population alive, this was not possible 60 years ago. With the population growth from 1956 until now (3 billion in 1960 to 7 billion today) we would not be able to keep the population alive with the techniques used back then. Home gardening is not sustainable agriculture on a world stage, it is not even worth comparing these so I won't bother.

[MarkB]

You are confusing home grown food with grocery store food, 2 entirely different animals and you cannot compare.

You really don't think cross breeding did not exist before 1956? Maybe you should brush up on where domesticated animals and agriculture came from, a heck of a lot longer than 60 years.

Sorry, good old days? We are able to produce enough food to keep our population alive, this was not possible 60 years ago. With the population growth from 1956 until now (3 billion in 1960 to 7 billion today) we would not be able to keep the population alive with the techniques used back then. Home gardening is not sustainable agriculture on a world stage, it is not even worth comparing these so I won't bother.

Fox, I have a feeling if I say black is a good color, you'll argue and say blue.

I'm not offering opinions ... I'm stating facts ... you talk about farming and feeding billions of people and then jump back to home grown food.

I have from the first post I put on here referred to home grown foods. You keep comparing to mass produced farm food. That is the comparison we are making. So I'm not confusing the two at all, that is exactly what I'm comparing. I don't get you're first sentence.

As for cross-breeding in 1956 ... where did I say it didn't happen???? I am telling you my father didn't use cross breeded animals. The chickens I bought last August from a friend/farmer doesn't use cross breaded chickens ... the bones were impossible to break! I'm sharing my experience, and you are arguing with me, like I don't know what I'm talking about. And I don't know why you're arguing with me.

As for keeping populations alive ... Italy's population was 50 million when my dad was born, it's 60 million today. They took care of themselves and grew enough to survive. They could go back to the old ways and feed 60 million if they had to. As for the extra 4 billion people ... they sure as heck aren't in Canada, so I'd also bet Canada could feed itself the good old way. I would agree if you said things would cost a lot more. I think that's the primary reason farmers are doing what they do ... not to save the world, but to yield more crops and reduce their cost per unit to stay competitive. It comes back to money ... it always does.