Additional deer seals 2016

[Species8472]

When I started hunting deer the numbers were high but when my father started they would be lucky to cut a track for 8 guys in a whole week of hunting just south east of Algonquin park. I do not want to see the days not not seeing any sign, I would rather they reduce the number of deer tags drop substantially rather than not have the chance to hunt them.

I have been chasing them for 35 years and agree. If you refer back to my earlier post you will see I expressed concern over the crazy number (6300) of antlerless tags available for 82a.

That being said I do like the opportunities afforded by additional seals when appropriate but not at the expense of the resource.

[Fox]

I have been chasing them for 35 years and agree. If you refer back to my earlier post you will see I expressed concern over the crazy number (6300) of antlerless tags available for 82a.

That being said I do like the opportunities afforded by additional seals when appropriate but not at the expense of the resource.

The extra antlerless tags though is still only 1 deer per hunter, it is just a validation of that game seal. I think there is concern for the guys who have tons of time to hunt and are good at it. I have a friend who shoots 2-3 deer every single year on additional tags but then complains about the guys who go hunting in a gang of 20 and shoot 20 deer in a week. He still has a larger impact on the deer herd than that group of 20 when you look at it in a per person situation.

If you look at how the additional tags are setup, one guy can apply for an antlerless tag in 65 then get an addional in 86, 80, 89, 88, and on and on and on. I do not know that they actually have a limit on tags someone can have except in one WMU. This leads to hunters moving to other WMUs to shoot deer where they have the opportunity to shoot more animals, even if it is bucks only.

In a lot of places I would be just fine with antlerless at 100% but one deer only per hunter, much like it was in 2000.

[GW11]

It's interesting to discuss with someone from another part of the province. I thought we were all in the same boat but different place, different issues.
I also get invited to a bow camp between Christmass and new year for the past 5 years in 76A. In 2013 it started to get really cold mid November and we got a lot of snow early in December, been hunting in a deeryard it was a slaughter from us and the coyotes. The next December was still good too but not the same, obviously last year was terrible. But the MNR cut the tag by a lot on 76A in 2015, so again I htink they did a good job.

My guess is that areas with known significant "yards" get closer attention and more accurate tag allotments from year to year. I was involved in a couple of deer yard surveys in the mid nineties in college and when we were done our reports the information was compiled and went to the MNR. Some was accurate but some students just partied for 3 days in the bush and fudged data. I suppose the MNR does the best they can with their limited resources.

[Species8472]

The extra antlerless tags though is still only 1 deer per hunter, it is just a validation of that game seal. I think there is concern for the guys who have tons of time to hunt and are good at it. I have a friend who shoots 2-3 deer every single year on additional tags but then complains about the guys who go hunting in a gang of 20 and shoot 20 deer in a week. He still has a larger impact on the deer herd than that group of 20 when you look at it in a per person situation.

If you look at how the additional tags are setup, one guy can apply for an antlerless tag in 65 then get an addional in 86, 80, 89, 88, and on and on and on. I do not know that they actually have a limit on tags someone can have except in one WMU. This leads to hunters moving to other WMUs to shoot deer where they have the opportunity to shoot more animals, even if it is bucks only.

In a lot of places I would be just fine with antlerless at 100% but one deer only per hunter, much like it was in 2000.

I have no issue with your buddy taking 2 or 3 as long as the population can support it (that's what I do as well). Him complaining about others though is ridiculous.

There is a limit in the regs, you are only allowed your primary plus 6 additionals for a total of 7 province wide. At that point you are cut off regardless of whether there are seals available. I think if they got rid of, or drastically reduced the antlerless tags but still allowed some additional buck tags we would see a dramatic increase in numbers. That's completely anecdotal though as I'm no biologist.

I think part of the issue from the hunter's end is that the MNR is not necessarily trying to increase/decrease numbers or serve hunters. They are trying for some magic # that theoretically balances carrying capacity, crop/property damage, vehicle accidents and hunting. Whether they achieve this or not is another entire issue.

[Fox]

I have no issue with your buddy taking 2 or 3 as long as the population can support it (that's what I do as well). Him complaining about others though is ridiculous.

There is a limit in the regs, you are only allowed your primary plus 6 additionals for a total of 7 province wide. At that point you are cut off regardless of whether there are seals available. I think if they got rid of, or drastically reduced the antlerless tags but still allowed some additional buck tags we would see a dramatic increase in numbers. That's completely anecdotal though as I'm no biologist.

I think part of the issue from the hunter's end is that the MNR is not necessarily trying to increase/decrease numbers or serve hunters. They are trying for some magic # that theoretically balances carrying capacity, crop/property damage, vehicle accidents and hunting. Whether they achieve this or not is another entire issue.

The MNR are always about 5 years behind with that. It seems like a couple bad winters will not change the numbers until years later and the same seems to occur on the rebound.

I am with you on the antlered only additionals but it seems counter intuitive to the people making the rules who are not biologist but rather Toronto politicians.

[Dythbringer]

What's the big deal one deer a year is all we need .
Greed will kill hunting, no matter what the species is.
Be thankful we don't have to go into a draw for a deer tag.
Oh ya, it will not be long, before they figure they can make us pay to go into a draw, just to increase their revenue.

Speak for yourself. My family (1 adult male (who loves his venison), 1 adult female, 2 kids (5 and 2)) wouldn't be able to live off one deer for a year (especially since the big ones are usually inaccessible). I don't hunt for horns, I hunt to put meat in the freezer so my family's grocery bill is as low as it can be.

I don't think it is greedy to take two or three deer if the population can handle it in order to feed your family (or another family which is in financial troubles like they do in some US states) and what I see in 87 tells me it can. We have a population in the Dundas Valley Conservation Area which is now hunted by Natives under treaty law (which have never taken their quota) so I know the deer numbers are high in our area due to a few factors (a big one is the fact getting permission to hunt is extremely tough, I have heard more no's to hunting because the landowner doesn't want the deer hunted than there was someone already hunting the property.).

[Hunter John]

In my little corner of 87 is just beside the Dundas valley and I have noticed much fewer deer the last 2 seasons as the native hunt is having an impact and the coyotes seem to be up in number as well. A few years back I would buy 3 additional tags and almost always use them as my family would eat 3 to 4 deer by the next October but I also realize the deer #s were too high for the landscape and think they are now closer to the natural carrying capacity.

[Marker]

I am very surprised by the lack of extra seals in 87 based on the past availability but in hindsight it supports my observations having casually counted significantly fewer deer here this year over last year and also compared to Michigan when driving.

I hope they do a re-count and some become available.

[Dythbringer]

In my little corner of 87 is just beside the Dundas valley and I have noticed much fewer deer the last 2 seasons as the native hunt is having an impact and the coyotes seem to be up in number as well. A few years back I would buy 3 additional tags and almost always use them as my family would eat 3 to 4 deer by the next October but I also realize the deer #s were too high for the landscape and think they are now closer to the natural carrying capacity.

I think the coyotes smashing the fawns in the spring and taking down deer in the deeper snow has had more of an impact on the deer herd than the native hunt. The hunt has been going on since 2011 with the first year having a quota of 40 (which 31 deer were taken) and then the next 2 years having a quota of 80 per year but only 37 and 30 deer taken then in 2014 & 2015 the quota was reduced to 60 deer with 35 deer taken in 2014 (I haven't heard how many were taken in 2015 but one could make an educated guess).

In 2009, an aerial population was conducted and the herd was pegged at 550 deer and then in 2013 the population was almost halved to 266. I am not saying the native hunt didn't contribute but there were other factors (I would say more significant) which lead to the herd dropping that fast.

[Dythbringer]

I am very surprised by the lack of extra seals in 87 based on the past availability but in hindsight it supports my observations having casually counted significantly fewer deer here this year over last year and also compared to Michigan when driving.

I hope they do a re-count and some become available.

Doing a re-count and making some seals available would mean the MNR has extra money to go and do a re-count and also more money to notify every hunter in the province that there are seals available. I would say based on the MNR's budget that will be unlikely.