Additional deer seals 2016

[Hunter John]

All of the above are factors for sure Dyth but I am not to sure how much stock I put in to what the natives claim to have harvested. and I know after the brutal winter 2 years back almost no fawns were seen on my trail Cameras that run year round so the doe's likely reabsorbed their fetuses do to the harsh winter.

[Ahuntr300]

What took so long?

IMO, it didn't! In 46, 53 and 60 we had two harch winters (13/14 lots of snow and 14/15 cold) and an high number of predator at the same time.
For the 2015 season, so right after, and for those WMU they cut the tags by 80% for 46, more than 50% for 53 and didn't for 60. They also took extra tags away. They cut tags in many other WMU that same year and again this year. Last summer I saw lots of does with two fawns that I was able to see again this spring so we are ding well. Another thing to consider, I'm no expert but maybe we needed a good kill to start fresh with the strong just like nature always did... I have seen a lot less coyote too this winter...
Anyway, I'm not too sure how the MNR wasn't fast enough?!? Sounds to me there are lots of wannabe that will always complain and pretend they could do better but it's not about what you could do....

Ok here come the name calling - was wondering when that was going to start - "Wannabe that will always complain" ? What does this mean?

Can't some guys have a discussion respecting everyone's opinion without doing this or assuming you know better?

Many of us have been hunting deer for over 30 years and know our areas and deer herds pretty good and know a trend when we see one.

Not complaints - facts in my opinion.

[MikePal]

Just some background..this is some info on deer density numbers that the MNR works with when it opens a cull (extra tags).

Social issues such as crop damage, and high vehicle collision rates are usually associated with deer densities in the range of 5-15 deer/km2. At densities of 10 deer/km2 or more, deer may exceed the carrying capacity of their habitat. It is then common to have problems with forest regeneration, loss of plant diversity,
and impacts on other wildlife species. In suburban areas, densities over 50 deer/km2 may cause extensive damage to gardens and ornamental/landscaping vegetation. Densities of 100 deer/km2 or more have been experienced in suburban areas of the U.S.

In recent years, Ontario’s deer densities have increased into the “problem” ranges referred to above. Many agricultural regions in southern Ont. have between 4-10 deer/km2 of deer habitat, while shield units south of Lake Nipissing have densities between 1-5 deer/km2. Densities over 25-30 deer/km2 have been experienced in
some provincial parks (e.g., Pinery and Rondeau Provincial Parks). A density of >100 deer/km2 has been noted at the Sifton Bog in London, Ontario.

From 2010..that is when we stopped getting extra tags here...it's been one tag and about 40% chance of an antlerless tag every year since.

When deer populations were at their peak in eastern Ontario, deer densities got as high as 12 to 14 deer/km2 in suitable habitat. The 2009 data shows that deer densities have declined to an average of 2.5 deer/km2 in the WMU’s in eastern Ontario. Our target population is from 5 to 8 deer/km2. This target comes from the province’s Cervid Ecological Framework, a provincial policy document that guides the management of deer, moose and elk in Ontario.

So what is good for the hunters...well high densities because the will be extra tags.

But high population densities are not good for the deer ecologically and it creates human-deer conflicts, so the MNR is mandated to keep their number down.

A rather seesaw battle.


edit add; I should clarify, that from 2006-2009 it was a free for all here. Hunters able to get up to 6 tags each..some camps were hanging 25+ deer on their poles...it sure drove down the population, which was what the MNR required to get the density issue under control.

Guys just got used to it and now that we're down to the required 5-8 deer/km2 they aren't happy.

[Species8472]

Good info Mike.

To provide some context for those who don't work in km^2 - 1 km^2 equals 247 acres.

[MikePal]

That's about right; I have a few trail cam pics of 4-5 deer (doe/fawns) at a time around a bait pile...and I hunt 200 acres bush. And add the Bucks and this area is pretty close to the 8 deer/km2.

[JBen]

My pure guess Species is that the yards get "attention" if you will because they could I would argue be the peverbial canary.

47 also gets (it's down this year) 6000 antler less. Only a couple places in the province get that many. We hunt pretty much the heart of the Loring yards. No idea how far deer migrate from, but I imagine if the Loring yards are way down, then the outlying areas are way down.Come spring poof they are gone, back to wherever, until the snow flies the next year. So if a person has limited resources, keeping the pulse of the yards, would be a good barometer of how herds are doing further away.

either way, not sure why reducing additionals bothers people. It should lead to more deer, and better days ahead. The alternative is over estimating herds health/density, continued hard pressure and then who knows........better to bar the doors than not.

[Species8472]

Agree that yards are a good indicator with the exception being SW ontario where yarding behaviour is non-existent or very minimal and/or only for very brief periods.

As for reductions, I am all for it when needed. Otherwise I am equally happy to fill additionals as it makes for a nice long season and makes good eating.

[giby]

Species8472 Im from 85 and yes we do have extra tags but we shouldn't have are deer numbers have gone down by at least 65 to 70% from there high in 2009 and 2010 I used to see winter yards of 200 plus in my family's bush now we are lucky if we see 30 and we have took it on to are selfs to not shot does and fawns the last 2 season so when I see someone posting about coming to 85 to hunt because they weren't smart enough to know when they're deer are in trouble and stop buying extra tags don't come here and hunt are deer that are all ready over hunted and number are way down its people thinking oh they have extra tags must have a lot of deer so I'm going to hunt there cause we weren't smart enough to know when to stop shooting all are deer I was one of the worst I used to buy every tag I could for a couple of years we where a load 7 and I would fill them all young and stupid now I shot mature bucks and if the Bush I'm hunting has 5 or more does then I will take one doe if the farmer ask me too

[fratri]

How does the MNRF know how many deer are taken each year by means of hunting.... Maybe my memory isn't too good but deer harvest report for every tag purchased doesn't need to be called in...(calling in isn't mandatory for every tag/seal purchased) so if that's the case, how do they know how many deer where taken from a hunter(s)?

[MikePal]

They gather the information from the Questionnaires that hunters are asked (not mandatory) to complete every year. The problem is not enough guys do their part. I was at an MNR deer seminar a few years back and the biologists told the crowd that only 6%...yes that's right 6% of the questionnaires were returned.

Mind you that was before on-line reporting and it has probably gotten much better....but for all the finger pointing towards the MNR for not knowing what's going on...they sure don't get much help from those doing the pointing.