EBR Proposal 012-8104;8105

[werner.reiche]

Wolf, how pure IDK

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A lot of coyote in that one. Light build and brown fur. Wolves should be shades of grey from pure white to pure black, including husky-like markings. Brown/tan is a coyote indicator.

[trimmer21]

Wolf, how pure IDK

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We call those "Brush Wolves" and around here,they're thick as thieves. It looks exactly like the one that grabbed the ladies dog down the road from us in April.

[Fox]

Did you hunt the 80's in the area in question ? When was then last time you can remember the deer and wolf relationship working in your home county ?

Grandpa started hunting that area in question back in the 40s, there was a crash in the population around the south end of Algonquin park which lead to the antlerless deer tag allocations, our family has been in the area of the wolf ban since the 1850s.

Dad started hunting just east of there in 76, at that time they would be lucky to cut a track between 8 guys over an entire week. The population peaked around 2001-2002, this was around the same time that the people in Lanark were putting on a Fathers Day hunt to reduce the population and the creation of WMU 63A&B, 63B was the unit that had a lot of agriculture and was given a bunch of extra tags. The area around Ottawa was given up to 7 extra tags for deer at that time.

I moved to Ottawa in 2003, since then there have been at least 4 very hard winters on the deer without having a reduction in tag allocations until 2 years ago, a significant delay.

There are more coyotes but the coyote population will reduce as does the prey they have, it is a natural balance that we should be part of but not the controller of.

[werner.reiche]

Grandpa started hunting that area in question back in the 40s, there was a crash in the population around the south end of Algonquin park which lead to the antlerless deer tag allocations, our family has been in the area of the wolf ban since the 1850s.

Dad started hunting just east of there in 76, at that time they would be lucky to cut a track between 8 guys over an entire week. The population peaked around 2001-2002, this was around the same time that the people in Lanark were putting on a Fathers Day hunt to reduce the population and the creation of WMU 63A&B, 63B was the unit that had a lot of agriculture and was given a bunch of extra tags. The area around Ottawa was given up to 7 extra tags for deer at that time.

I moved to Ottawa in 2003, since then there have been at least 4 very hard winters on the deer without having a reduction in tag allocations until 2 years ago, a significant delay.

There are more coyotes but the coyote population will reduce as does the prey they have, it is a natural balance that we should be part of but not the controller of.

The crash in the deer population in the area around the park was a direct result of two things - the decision by the MNR to stop controlling wolf pops in the park in 1959 and a few hard winters in the 1960's. Prior to that there were no (or at least very few) wolves outside the park. It took about 25 years - until the mid 1980's - for the deer to recover, but they have never reached the levels they were at in the 1940's and 1950's. Our camp is in the crown land along 58 between Round lake and Pembroke - the "new" camp was built in 1953.

[trimmer21]

Has anyone seen a list of the 39 additional Townships covered by the restricted area in the proposal?

[Fox]

The crash in the deer population in the area around the park was a direct result of two things - the decision by the MNR to stop controlling wolf pops in the park in 1959 and a few hard winters in the 1960's. Prior to that there were no (or at least very few) wolves outside the park. It took about 25 years - until the mid 1980's - for the deer to recover, but they have never reached the levels they were at in the 1940's and 1950's. Our camp is in the crown land along 58 between Round lake and Pembroke - the "new" camp was built in 1953.

You mean when they pulled the bounty and poisoning the wolves?

I guess you do not believe any predators should exist as they are detrimental to the number of animals you can hunt.

I am one who believes that predators and prey are both natural things and that we need to find a balance, wiping one species off the face of the earth is not an option in my mind.

[270 WBY]

I think there's more scat in the MNR then there is out in the woods!

and good cleaning is in order.

They've been serving scat to us all and now - "once game rich Ontario" - is thriving with predators.


Bears out the wazzoo, cormorants, coyotes, hybrid wolves, lets save them all!

I've been buying my 3 S licence for quite some time now!!

:-)

[werner.reiche]

You mean when they pulled the bounty and poisoning the wolves?

I guess you do not believe any predators should exist as they are detrimental to the number of animals you can hunt.

I am one who believes that predators and prey are both natural things and that we need to find a balance, wiping one species off the face of the earth is not an option in my mind.

I can't ever remember anyone poisoning wolves - I'm sure it happened, but not in my time. The end of the bounty (1972) came about long, long after the wolf boom and the wiping out of Renfrew counties deer herd. As far as Renfrew county goes there were no deer and very few wolves by the time the bounty was ended, making it a moot point.

I'm not sure why you're trying to rewrite history here. As far as "balance" - the "balance of nature" is something that only exists in the Disneyesque mind. Real nature is a series of booms and busts - there is no balance.

[MikePal]

Real nature is a series of booms and busts - there is no balance.

That's true..and that is how nature balances an ecosystem...thru cycles of good and bad. Most hunters just don't seem to understand that, they want a permanent target enriched environment and if there is an ebb, they start looking to blame someone or something.

[JBen]

Werner. Didn't a long standing winter yard also get logged into oblivion somewhere in there. I thought it was those three things, in order A) giving the wolves a break B) then logging their winter yard and C) the hard winters that followed that put the beat down on WTs. From which they have never recovered. Like googling images of actual wolves from the area. There was a day, not all that long ago, when WTs were thick as fleas in the park.

Fox, my thinking on the issue is along yours. The first consideration should always err towards the side of balance. Not sure how giving predators a free pass will ever result in something close to a natural or sustainable balance. And just like a teeter totter when one side is going down, one side tends to go up. Moose and WT are down, there's anecdotal evidence that rabbit, Grouse and Fox are very noticeably down as well. So how do you rationalize protecting the predators further, is helping maintain balance. Now, here's the thing. Are these dogs more numerous today, than they were 20 years ago?

yep, they are doing quite well. Long winded way of saying if the goal is balance, then arguements to further protect the dogs would really only hold water, if their number to, we're going down. They aren't, in fact they are up.

lets not also forget that once a person leaves the highway 60 corridor, and just over the ridges that tourist can see, the park is still getting logged hard. Which does what to the resident WTs (those few left) and wolves. Ah yes it pushes them around.

Lets not not also forget the Algonquin Land claim. Where once again, then hand of man is going to make life just that wee bit harder on various species.

all of them....... except for the "wolves".

Would love to hear rationale, that explains the illogical.