Why breeding bulldogs is borderline inhumane

[MikePal]

No...Kennel Clubs create their own 'image' problems with those highly touted dog pageants to show off abominations like the GSD and BullDogs.

It's not the Media or special interest groups...it the common dog owner/lover that are outraged that the KC are allowing this to happen under their watch.

There is a reason that the KC is a sinking ship....they have become redundant...

And putting those two clowns in front of a camera in a mock interview to try and explain what has gone wrong with their breeding program has shown that something is going on inside the KC that will eventually bring it down...

[welsh]

There's much more to the AKC and KC than Westminster and Crufts. These organizations also run field trials, obedience and agility events, tracking competitions, earth dog events, lure coursing events, sheepdog trials.... The relatively small number of breeds in which serious problems have developed, such as Bulldogs and GSDs, is outnumbered by healthy breeds in which breed clubs are doing a good job of identifying and screening for genetic problems. These are big-tent organizations.

The common dog owner/lover would appear to be largely ignorant of the problems with bulldogs, given that these (and similar breeds with similar problems) are now among the most popular in both the US and the UK. The common dog owner/lover thinks that the squashed-in faces of Bulldogs and Pugs are cute. The common dog owner/lover is, to a large degree, responsible for creating the market for dogs whose conformation causes serious breathing problems. If the common dog owner/lover is so enraged, the solution is quite simple: stop buying defective dogs.

Could the AKC, as an umbrella organization, take action to change Bulldog standards? Yes, they could, as the Kennel Club has recently done with the GSD in the UK where the breed club was dragging its feet. But the AKC doesn't judge Bulldog events; the breed club does. The AKCs actual power here is quite limited. In practice, the breed club controls the standard. And the market for "cute" dogs with squished faces continues to drive Bulldog and Pug breeders to breed defective dogs. There's plenty of blame to go around.

But hey, if you like that simplistic narrative where the kennel clubs are the bad guys, go to town.

[MikePal]

But hey, if you like that simplistic narrative where the kennel clubs are the bad guys, go to town.

As the face of "Dog Breeds in America"...yes they can wear it...and do !!

[Ugo]

Mike, I agree with you that the kennel clubs do not do enough to condemn poor standards. That said, Welsh is also right on the mark. Money makes humans do all manner of horrific things. If the breeders/breed clubs weren't making profits selling these dogs, they would stop without the slightest most subtle insinuation. At the base of this issue is the customer that aspires to have these dogs providing a market for the breeders. So, core issues are hardly with the associations alone.
There is most assuredly one common thread here - mankind's insatiable pursuit of the all mighty dollar. Intentionally breeding dogs with restrictions are but one small aspect of this.

[MikePal]

So maybe the guy in the video isn't so far off the mark....lets blame the breeders.

Are you saying they are caving to the market demands rather than the Breed Standards...then why are they still a licensed breeder..they should be taken out back stripped of their credentials, tar and feathered for allowing unhealthy dogs to be breed to make more unhealthy dogs...

It's the responsibility of the AKC to ensure that things like that don't happen, rather than giving unhealthy dogs Red Ribbons at their pageants.

AKC is run by the delegate body, which is made up of delegates from each member parent club. If the delegate body doesn’t approve of it, then it doesn’t happen. The Board is elected by the delegates. So “the AKC” IS the breed clubs. There IS a difference.

[MikePal]

If the common dog owner/lover is so enraged, the solution is quite simple: stop buying defective dogs.

Welsh is also right on the mark. Money makes humans do all manner of horrific things. If the breeders/breed clubs weren't making profits selling these dogs, they would stop without the slightest most subtle insinuation.

No he's not..but you're close.

AKC have no business giving 'papers' to defective dogs. A great many of the folks that you are accusing of creating the market are also the same folks that wouldn't buy the dog if it didn't come with papers. If the AKC didn't rubber stamp it, the 'defective' dog would become worthless and breeders would stop breeding that line.

To much navel gazing going on in the head office at the AKC....thankfully HBO has shed some light onto the festering boil.

[MikePal]

But hey, if you like that simplistic narrative where the kennel clubs are the bad guys, go to town.

Yea...'bad guys' hardly begins to describe their attitude....in denial....ya think !!!

The problem is not isolated to the United States. Nor does it affect all breeds or breeders, many of whom are as passionate about health as appearance. But where problems do exist in the U.S., the American Kennel Club (AKC), which governs the sport of dog showing, and breed clubs, which control the "standards," have long been in denial.

In a 2014 segment on HBO’s Real Sports, focusing on bulldogs and other troubled breeds, an AKC spokesman said breed standards do not need to be changed, adding that when they’re followed, “we have happy, healthy dogs.”

In other countries, many breeders and the sports' governing bodies would disagree and have developed programs to begin to address the issues.

After a scathing BBC documentary in 2008, Pedigree Dogs Exposed, showed heart-rending scenes of dogs suffering from inherited conditions, about 70 British breed clubs amended their standards, at least slightly. The Kennel Club, the British equivalent of the AKC, created an early warning system to identify health concerns. A dozen breeds have been identified for “visible conditions or exaggerations that can cause pain or discomfort” and are subject to vet checks at shows. In 2012, six breed group winners at Crufts, the United Kingdom’s equivalent of Westminster, were disqualified by vet checks from competing for the top prizes — the kind of high-profile penalty that gets breeders' attention.
In Sweden and other Nordic countries, those involved in breeding and showing have collaborated on health-conscious breeding strategies for every breed and identified 39 breeds as high-risk, in need of special attention.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinio...ates/80373002/

[welsh]

SAre you saying they are caving to the market demands rather than the Breed Standards...

Um, no. That's not even close to what I said.

I raised the fact that these dogs are very popular to counter your unsupported assertion that the "dog owning/loving public" is outraged. The popularity of these dogs demonstrates that the dog owning/loving public is anything but outraged.

The breeders are breeding to the breed standard. But breed standards are subjective -- which is why there is such a thing as an American Cocker Spaniel -- and the breed standard itself calls for physical characteristics that create these problems. That is to say, for greater clarity, the breed standard calls for a defective dog.

The breeders are obviously blameworthy, and so are all those people who continue to buy these dogs because they think they're cute

It's the responsibility of the AKC to ensure that things like that don't happen, rather than giving unhealthy dogs Red Ribbons at their pageants.

Who do you think judges Bulldogs at dog shows?

Dog show judges are drawn from the ranks of the breed club. Bulldogs are judged by bulldog fanciers. This is why I keep trying to tell you that bulldog fanciers are the problem.

Problems arise when subjective language in breed standards leads judges to look for exaggerated characteristics. To solve these problems, "the AKC" needs to somehow convince bulldog fanciers that their ideas of a "sound" bulldog need to change. This is for obvious reasons much easier to say than it is to achieve.

I agree that the AKC ought to condemn poor standards. But condemning those standards won't compel Bulldog fanciers to change their ways.

Breeders have no business giving 'papers' to defective dogs ... If the AKC didn't rubber stamp it, the 'defective' dog would become worthless and breeders would stop breeding that line.

Two problems with this idea.

First, the AKC does not independently inspect every litter bred in the US. Pups get papers if they're bred from registered parents. That's not a perfect system, and it would be better if (for example) the AKC tightened the rules so parents would have to be not only registered but certified for various genetic defects. But that's how it works.

Secondly, "stop breeding that line" as regards Bulldogs means stop breeding Bulldogs. According to the recent UC Davis study, there are no healthy individuals to breed from.

So the solution you propose is essentially for the AKC to expel the Bulldog club. But that won't stop people breeding them, any more than being outside the AKC has killed the Labradoodle. Which gets us back to the real problem: Bulldog fanciers and their goofy ideas.

[MikePal]

The common dog owner/lover is, to a large degree, responsible for creating the market for dogs whose conformation causes serious breathing problems.

And the market for "cute" dogs with squished faces continues to drive Bulldog and Pug breeders to breed defective dogs. There's plenty of blame to go around.

Are you saying they are caving to the market demands rather than the Breed Standards...

Um, no. That's not even close to what I said.

Um..yea..pretty sure that is what you wrote.

[MikePal]

So the solution you propose is essentially for the AKC to expel the Bulldog club. But that won't stop people breeding them, any more than being outside the AKC has killed the Labradoodle. Which gets us back to the real problem: Bulldog fanciers and their goofy ideas.

Ah yes..back to defending the indefensible with baffelgab..LOL...

Your incorrect Welch...if Bulldogs could not be registered with a Kennel Club...and were sold with-out papers...as-is..there would be such a small market for them, especially since the average pet owner now knows they will be faced with the huge costs of corrective surgery. Breeders would eventually stop breeding them because there would no longer be any money to be made.

Your example of the Laradoodle is not valid as it in NOT a dog so inbreed it has a litany of genetic disorders. It's a healthy popular designer breed..at least for now.

Ironically, with the disdain Pedrigree owners have for 'mutts'...cross breeding will end up being the only salvation for some of their favorite breeds.