Bringing 4 month old pup hunting?

[KonaBoy]

Hey folks,

I've got a 4 month old ESS named Townes



Besides sleeping in the boat, he loves retrieving and has pretty much mastered "Come" and "Sit". I bought him with the intent of being a hunting dog, but am just wondering if at 4 months I'd do more harm than good bringing him out? He's been exposed to gunfire (from the breeder) and it doesn't seem to bother him.

I'd bring him out with no expectations and no gun, just focus on handling him. On one hand, I don't think the experience would hurt at all, but wondering what you guys and gals think?

Thanks,

Cory

[welsh]

Too early. My new ESS pup is 16 weeks today, & no way would I take her hunting this fall.

It's a situation where you have no control over the scenario with an utterly green dog. Also, whatever the breeder did with intro to gunfire surely did not involve a 12 gauge.

[Waftrudnir]

... with no expectations and no gun, just focus on handling him. ...

that certainly is a good approach in general, but the dog doesn't appear ready to hunt quite yet.
therefore, the question is what do you envision when you say "hunting". making a dog gunshy is a real concern and it may not take much to do that. I would not rely on someone telling me that a little pup had proper gun introduction. welsh is correct, when hunting you typically cannot control the shooting, being anywhere close to the shooters is really a bad idea.
also will you or your buddies accept the dog spoiling the hunt, which is not overly unlikely?
on the other hand, being a bystander (really far away) and meeting up after the shooting is over, might not be such a bad idea.

[krakadawn]

Cory.....bad news to even think about it. You'll do far more harm than accomplish any good.
To begin with ...'Pretty much' doesn't buy you much as far as basic obedience goes and wait for the guns to go off and see how much obedience your dog doe not have.

I have a 4 month currently, he knows his name, sits on command, has started to sit on the whistle and comes on 'here'. He'll retrieve bird/bumper on land /water to probably 75 yards or so if simple. I wouldn't even dream about taking him hunting.

I suggest you find a sound program of 'basics' and take your dog through them. Consider collar conditioning and force fetch regardless if he is an upland or waterfowl dog. Take a look at how you teach a dog to handle such that birds not seen can be retrieved.......the list goes on.

One note of caution, you mention the breeder exposed to gunfire. There is a universe of difference between that and a dog that is steady etc under gunfire immediately around him.

Perhaps you can find some others training in your area....nothing like being with those who are currently training.

[Jakezilla]

I am not sure what kind of hunting you plan to do with your dog but if you are going to hunt grouse I would be taking your dog in the woods and letting them find birds. I will have a 4 month old pointer this fall and he/she will be coming in the woods with me to find and chase birds. While in the woods I will fire a blank pistol at all bird contacts. Young dogs need wild birds if they are going to grow into wild bird dogs.

[krakadawn]

Just some clarification....I totally agree with Jake's comments in that situation...exploration etc. My comments were about developing a process if the dog will be shot over with the expectation of retrieving. It is in that context that the careful development of 'The Basics" exist and should be developed.

There's another fellow around here that I guided through the basics with his English Cocker. He can chime in with the effective ness of that approach.

Just a caveat around blank pistols, although not as loud in a blunt way they are very sharp, sometimes too sharp so a word of caution around how you use them with young dogs and how closely used.

[yellow dog]

Agree Jakezilla/Krakadawn using a starter pistol. Early training with my pup included firing off a starter pistol when in contact with birds at a long distance as well as firing it off in my training carry bag to eliminate the sharp sound. Eventually the starter pistol was fired outside of the bag, later a .22 was introduced then a 20 gauge over a period of months.

[KonaBoy]

Hey folks,

Sorry, have had computer issues and just getting a chance to read these now.

For clarification on the exposure to gunfire, when I picked him up from the breeder, he said that he'd fired a shotgun at squirrels and the pups mainly lived outside. I've fired a .22 (shorts) around him when I've thrown the dummy/bumper a few times and he didn't seem bothered by it.

Too early. My new ESS pup is 16 weeks today, & no way would I take her hunting this fall.

It's a situation where you have no control over the scenario with an utterly green dog. Also, whatever the breeder did with intro to gunfire surely did not involve a 12 gauge.

Not trying to argue and after reading decided that he's not coming out in the blind with me, but what situations can happen that I can't control? Just curious.

that certainly is a good approach in general, but the dog doesn't appear ready to hunt quite yet.
therefore, the question is what do you envision when you say "hunting". making a dog gunshy is a real concern and it may not take much to do that. I would not rely on someone telling me that a little pup had proper gun introduction. welsh is correct, when hunting you typically cannot control the shooting, being anywhere close to the shooters is really a bad idea.
also will you or your buddies accept the dog spoiling the hunt, which is not overly unlikely?
on the other hand, being a bystander (really far away) and meeting up after the shooting is over, might not be such a bad idea.

I mainly hunt with my Dad (who thinks the world of the little guy). The bystander idea I think could work out this fall. I was thinking I'd start like that anyways.

Cory.....bad news to even think about it. You'll do far more harm than accomplish any good.
To begin with ...'Pretty much' doesn't buy you much as far as basic obedience goes and wait for the guns to go off and see how much obedience your dog doe not have.

I have a 4 month currently, he knows his name, sits on command, has started to sit on the whistle and comes on 'here'. He'll retrieve bird/bumper on land /water to probably 75 yards or so if simple. I wouldn't even dream about taking him hunting.

I suggest you find a sound program of 'basics' and take your dog through them. Consider collar conditioning and force fetch regardless if he is an upland or waterfowl dog. Take a look at how you teach a dog to handle such that birds not seen can be retrieved.......the list goes on.

One note of caution, you mention the breeder exposed to gunfire. There is a universe of difference between that and a dog that is steady etc under gunfire immediately around him.

Perhaps you can find some others training in your area....nothing like being with those who are currently training.

I have been reading about FF'ing the dog and am considering it. I have a good friend who's trained a few of labs who has been giving me tips as well.

I am not sure what kind of hunting you plan to do with your dog but if you are going to hunt grouse I would be taking your dog in the woods and letting them find birds. I will have a 4 month old pointer this fall and he/she will be coming in the woods with me to find and chase birds. While in the woods I will fire a blank pistol at all bird contacts. Young dogs need wild birds if they are going to grow into wild bird dogs.

I'm hoping he can do double duty on upland and waterfowl. I've had him in the bush since I've had him and he's no stranger to finding grouse and (at least IMO) realizes that's a good thing.

I think I replied to everyone, sorry if I missed anyone.

I think this fall he'll just be the bystander (a distance away) and come after the shooting is over. Does that seem right? I really don't want to rush the dog, but it's also tough to leave him at home when I go out.

Cory

[welsh]

Not trying to argue and after reading decided that he's not coming out in the blind with me, but what situations can happen that I can't control? Just curious.

In a blind, not so much, though you may struggle to keep him still in when birds come in ... and he'd be that much closer to the gun.

I was thinking more upland scenarios. You don't know where birds are going to be and can't control the dog when they flush, may have problems with uncontrollable chasing. The dog may get excited after finding birds and end up working out of range. Etc. This is why in training spaniels for upland hunting you want to lay in good basics before getting them in the field.

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[Mount Sweetness]

I'd bring him out hunting for sure. Just use your head, be safe, keep expectations low, have fun, get some exercise and off leash training. Short hunts with just you and him. Use a .22 or .410, shoot rarely.
I wouldn't waste a season, I'd get him on birds, it's a flushing breed.