Guns are the problem

[Gun Nut]

The line I found must intriguing in the write up was the Crime Stoppers board's outreach before approving the billboard ad : " [COLOR=#333333]The message was presented to both firearm and non-firearm people for opinion[COLOR=#333333]. At that time we had good feedback and the board approved it for display."
[COLOR=#333333]Who exactly were the firearm people they sought the opinions of, and what could they have been thinking. That guns jump up off the table, load themselves shoot people and commit other such crimes. Guns are inanimate tools that do nothing of the kind. Nor does the argument, that the availability of guns, constitute a problem, we have some of the most stringent gun control law on this continent, and criminals seem to find their way around them, through the importation of illegal firearms. In fact our stringent approach to gun control was probably the prime factor in stimulating the illegal firearm trade. There is now a push to decriminalize and legalize marijuana use as a means to impact the illegal trade in it. If this is going to work so well in the case of marijuana, why wouldn't putting less impediments to the acquisition and possession of firearms do the same for them? You mean It doesn't boils down to what gives you a high? Sorry, I couldn't resist the tease.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

[patvetzal]

Always wondered where these groups find "firearm people", the local cop shop?

[recurve40]

Public perception is whacky a best...7 years ago I walked into my property to deer hunt in the archery season; I was carrying my recurve over my shoulder and was early so I relocated a trail cam and took my time walking in around the bedding areas; 20 minutes after I walked in just before I was about to climb up the tree I heard yelling nearby; I walked back so I could get a look and two OPP were walking up through the front field yelling for me to come out and talk to them. After several minutes I was told that a "neighbour" who lives around 250yrds away on the opposite side road with a line of sight to where I park had seen a "guy" walking into the woods with a "huge black military gun".... so I said..this gun? showing them my recurve... They shook their heads; I am military and my wife is LEO, I get the issues of firearms crime. This was a joke though; it ruined my hunt...I drove the hour back home very bitter. The Officers spoke to the helpy helper neighbour; I remarked to them that she must have a good set of binos as her line of sight is limited from her place.

[welsh]

Who exactly were the firearm people they sought the opinions of....

Always wondered where these groups find "firearm people", the local cop shop?

I can answer that one, at least partially ... the guy who wrote the statement from Crime Stoppers, who is a member of their board of directors, is a hunter and gun owner. Not sure if he's the only gun owner who saw it in advance, or if there were others.

They were looking at it from their point of view, assuming it would be taken in context ... the slogan they chose was hardly the best even given that point of view -- it would not surprise me if half the people who drove past the billboards thought they'd been put up by a gun control group -- but contrary to some of the shouting they got on Facebook, they are not a gang of antis.

The Officers spoke to the helpy helper neighbour; I remarked to them that she must have a good set of binos as her line of sight is limited from her place.

I almost wonder if the helpy helper neighbour wasn't really trying to help the poor innocent deer ... your ruined hunt was just what she wanted.

[trimmer21]

The Officers spoke to the helpy helper neighbour; I remarked to them that she must have a good set of binos as her line of sight is limited from her place.

I'd be willing to bet a weeks pay that they "tore her a new one" when they went back to talk to her.

[ridgrunner]

Had an encounter with regional police(probably called by neighbour) last spring claiming illegal discharge
turns out they were wrong and did not know the areas where discharge was not prohibited

[Gun Nut]

[QUOTE=welsh;990724]I can answer that one, at least partially ... the guy who wrote the statement from Crime Stoppers, who is a member of their board of directors, is a hunter and gun owner. Not sure if he's the only gun owner who saw it in advance, or if there were others.


I get it that he may have been part of a group attempting to spearhead a concern. But they are focusing their attack on the wrong item. Does this guy hunt by ordering his firearm to go out and get him game. I can just see it, he says to his gun, " Go get me a partridge for dinner," the gun jumps out of it's lockup, heads for the door, jumps in the car, tells the car to take it to its favour hunting spot. Arrives at the spot, loads itself up, heads out into the bush, comes upon a grouse, goes bang and kills it, some how retrieves it, unloads, returns to the car and tells it to return to home base. Finally it get backs turns the grouse over to its owner to pluck and dress, after all it has no hands, then returns to its lock up." That anthropomorphize idea of guns. For guns to be the problem, they would have to be capable of such actions. To repeat it once again, guns are inanimate tools. If there is a problem it rests the hands of the individuals using them. They should take a new run at the billboard thing, and place the blame where clearly belongs, something like: PEOPLE WHO MISUSE GUNS ARE THE PROBLEM. There were other versions of the billboard on the internet with a bit different twist which said: ILLEGAL GUNS ARE THE PROBLEM, that is equally absurd. IMHO.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

[welsh]

They should take a new run at the billboard thing, and place the blame where clearly belongs, something like: PEOPLE WHO MISUSE GUNS ARE THE PROBLEM.

Given that the aim of the exercise is to encourage people to report illegally-owned firearms before they're misused, that's not going to achieve the goal. The fact is that although "Guns Are The Problem" is a particularly clumsy message, there probably isn't a way of getting the message out there in six words or less that won't offend people who take it out of context.

[Gun Nut]

Given that the aim of the exercise is to encourage people to report illegally-owned firearms before they're misused, that's not going to achieve the goal. The fact is that although "Guns Are The Problem" is a particularly clumsy message, there probably isn't a way of getting the message out there in six words or less that won't offend people who take it out of context.

I comprehend what you're saying, but again look how you said it. "Encourage people to report illegally-owned firearms." You are making the firearm the subject not the individuals that owns them. It would better to say "Encourage people to report people who own illegal firearms. Then, of course, you must deal with the lawyer, who points out that illegal firearm owners, are not the ones necessarily responsible for domesticate violence, where a spouse is shot, in such cases it is legal firearms that are being misused by the person(s) that owns them. It is a small point, but we need to get away from blaming the tool and place the blame squarely where it belongs on the tool's user. We seem to be locked in a mode of blame the sin and not the sinner and that is BS.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

[Dythbringer]

It's a stretch to suppose that the billboards in question might lead to cops being called on a legit gun owner, in spite of the confused messaging.

In the case of Jonathan Login, the call came not because of a campaign to report illegal guns but because he was spotted with a gun in the area of a school. That's not to defend the OPP's reprehensible handling of the situation. But the call, and the police reaction to the call, was motivated by a panic over school shootings. That's going to happen regardless of any billboard.

Sorry this is so late in the conversation but I was busy all weekend long.

welsh,

I don't think it is a stretch that this billboard will have police being called on legit owners. We have to factor for the lowest denominator within the gene pool I think and we will have to account for people who have a beef with what outdoorspeople do (PETA for example). We are going to have people who see a legal firearm. It has already happened (Login was one instance). This message will drive home encourage more of this behavior. People who will be doing knee jerk calling will not take the time to observe and think. Making a blanket statement allows latitude of action who really shouldn't have it.

As for Login, he was simply an example of how an innocent 911 call turned into a series of miscommunications (between caller and the dispatcher and then the dispatcher and the officers) which then turned into a blatant abuse of Login's rights. The police were extremely heavy handed when it wasn't required and Login wasn't an isolated incident (http://www.thespec.com/news-story/54...me-ridge-mall/). While the Hamilton incident was better handled by the police, the man still was taken into police custody and the paintball marker was confiscated. As soon as the police found out it was a paintball marker and not a real gun, that young man should have been on his way (with a ticket for smoking indoors). He wasn't pointing the marker at anyone or threatening anyone (which would have come out in the investigation). His only "firearm crime" was not having the foresight to realize people might mistake his marker for the real thing. Not exactly something which required a confiscation of personal property I think. I don't have an issue with the police treating this incident as an actual firearm but when what actually took place was discovered, I can be critical of what they did.

Dyth