Vermilion Bay area grouse hunt

[Dythbringer]

We do indeed realize we have a treasure and we certainly don't take it for granted, that's why some of us choose to be conservative and apply common sense when it comes to harvesting them. If we want our resources to remain sustainable, we as responsible custodians have a moral and ethical obligation to be respectful of our resources and in managing them for future generations to come. Killing 84 birds is outright despicable in my opinion and to have the audacity to say not to take things for granted is nothing short of hypocrisy, SHAME ON YOU !

Wow. So the guy and his four buddies hunt come up here, pay $120 each for their small game license, hunt for 4 1/2 days while following the daily limits for the majority of the days (the last 1/2 day he and his buddies could have killed another 5 grouse each if they so chose to) while eating what they shot (and keeping some for the ride home no doubt), and you think killed too many birds? You understand the season up there runs from Sept 15- December 31 and a local can easily take at least that many over the season without hitting their daily limit just hunting on weekends? I truly hope you save some of your moral outrage for those hunters.

To the OP: I hope you guys had fun and a good time. Please come and see us again (or if you prefer "Y'all come back now ya hear"). Just excuse the crazies around here. Most of the time we keep them under wraps but sometimes they get out. I am sure you understand, you have a crazy running for president right now.

[sidelock]

Judging by the reaction to my post its quite obvious some lack the mental capacity to differentiate the difference between law and ethical code of sportsmanship and values.

[Dythbringer]

Judging by the reaction to my post its quite obvious some lack the mental capacity to differentiate the difference between law and ethical code of sportsmanship and values.

Ah yes, the infamous argument that that because someone disagrees with me, they lack the intelligence to understand how right I am. Please, continue to ride your moral high horse around so the rest of us can one day dream of leaving the great unwashed behind and becoming as superior as you so obviously are.

[sidelock]

Yes I do intend to continue riding my moral high horse around, fortunately I was taught from an early age that moral and ethical values are what truly defines a person and I will make avery effort to pass that on. As for the lack of intelligence to recognize and differentiate between law and ethics, I wouldn't realistically expect any meat hunter to possess such capacity let alone recognize between right and wrong regardless. I'm also proud to be a conservationist and appreciative of our resources and treat them with respect but if you or anyone else for that matter choose to harvest game indiscriminately, unfortunately I can't stop you but I have a moral obligation to voice my opinion because that's the way I was brought up and that's who and what I am, a conservationist not a meat hunter.

[sawbill]

I'm a meat hunter as are many of the guys on this site. I place more value on the meat than I do on a rack on a wall and will quickly take a fawn, a calf, a cow or doe. I also fish and keep what I take. I also consider myself a conservationist.

[Species8472]

Yes I do intend to continue riding my moral high horse around, fortunately I was taught from an early age that moral and ethical values are what truly defines a person and I will make avery effort to pass that on. As for the lack of intelligence to recognize and differentiate between law and ethics, I wouldn't realistically expect any meat hunter to possess such capacity let alone recognize between right and wrong regardless. I'm also proud to be a conservationist and appreciative of our resources and treat them with respect but if you or anyone else for that matter choose to harvest game indiscriminately, unfortunately I can't stop you but I have a moral obligation to voice my opinion because that's the way I was brought up and that's who and what I am, a conservationist not a meat hunter.

Does your moral obligation actually require any understanding of the resource in question? Or are you as lacking in intelligence as you seem to think the rest of us are.

We took those birds from probably a 100 square mile area..

SL,

Taking 84 grouse out of 100 square miles in northern Ontario has virtually no effect on their numbers or their viability in the future. As has been stated by numerous people, grouse numbers are affected by the population cycle and habitat availability. Hunting them in places like northern Ontario plays has essentially no effect on their population.

Passing judgement based on some sort of moral high ground just demonstrates your ignorance of the resource in question. As long as these hunters consumed all the birds they harvested there was nothing unethical about anything they did.

The only time hunting plays a role in threatening their numbers is when it is in heavily pressured isolated populations like we have in a few places in the south. If these guys were hunting the Simcoe County Forests than the story would be different and you would have a far better case for passing ethical judgement . Take your "ethical judgement" and apply it to somewhere relevant.

[JBen]

Wow, am staying clear of this one. But feel compelled to respond to just this.

Yes I do intend to continue riding my moral high horse around, fortunately I was taught from an early age that moral and ethical values are what truly defines a person and I will make avery effort to pass that on. As for the lack of intelligence to recognize and differentiate between law and ethics, I wouldn't realistically expect any meat hunter to possess such capacity let alone recognize between right and wrong regardless.

Then you were raised wrong. Well perhaps more correctly raised with an incorrect understanding of morals and ethics.
1) Morals are not universal. Your post on the subject seem to suggest you think they are and only your morals are right. Gee that's awfully moral of you.....

But to illustrate how wrong your understanding of morals is, I'll use an extreme example.
Many people in the world think its morally wrong to eat meat period.......
many think it's immoral to kill animals....period
Many more think we are animals and morally bankrupt because we eat beef, because to them cows are sacred. In fact we think it's immoral to eat dogs and horses. Millions of people on the other side of the globe.....

Many in the mid east think we are animals and morally bankrupt because we ( name so many things). One persons terrorist, is another persons freedom fighter.
Morals?
lol

But don't worry only your morals are right, right?
*******

On law and ethics.
While they are different, in many ways they aren't. Sounds like ( and I could be mistaken here) your confusing ethics.

Ethics are a code of conduct. Many professions have them for example. Lawyers, Doctors, Banker types, and many more. They often have their own bodies that guess what.....govern the codes and discipline people who break them.

In hunting we don't have such a governing body. Will never have one because some think their sense of right and wrong is right and others are wrong. Example many think hunting over bait doesn't follow the principle of fair chase (unethical), many other's do (ethical)

So who gets to play god.
you? Me?

The closest we have to Ethics and a code of conduct in the absence of a formal code of ethics is guess what. The FWCA and the laws. So at least as far as "ethics" go, hunting and differentiating from the law. Buzz your wrong.

So as far as hunting goes
If your within the law, your an ethical hunter
If your not within the law, that would be unethical
This isn't much grey or wiggle room in that.

I may feel that morally, it's not right to take and consume a daily limit. Those are "my" morals. I may feel theres nothing wrong with it, again my morals. Far be it for anyone to argue or say otherwise. Its certainly ethical (within the law/code of conduct).

You should study some of the great philosophers on the topics or morals and ethics. Maybe even think about some of the basic "test"...aka moral dilemma's. One such classic is

Your wife and a child are drowning. You can only save one them. Which do you let die?
Too each their own, morals are not universal. I know which my morals would have me saving. The next person? Their morals may say save the other. Who are they to say my moral compass is "wrong".

To the OP
Glad you had a great time visiting this wonderful province

[joe16]

Wow, am staying clear of this one. But feel compelled to respond to just this.

Yes I do intend to continue riding my moral high horse around, fortunately I was taught from an early age that moral and ethical values are what truly defines a person and I will make avery effort to pass that on. As for the lack of intelligence to recognize and differentiate between law and ethics, I wouldn't realistically expect any meat hunter to possess such capacity let alone recognize between right and wrong regardless.

Then you were raised wrong. Well perhaps more correctly raised with an incorrect understanding of morals and ethics.
1) Morals are not universal. Your post on the subject seem to suggest you think they are and only your morals are right. Gee that's awfully moral of you.....

But to illustrate how wrong your understanding of morals is, I'll use an extreme example.
Many people in the world think its morally wrong to eat meat period.......
many think it's immoral to kill animals....period
Many more think we are animals and morally bankrupt because we eat beef, because to them cows are sacred. In fact we think it's immoral to eat dogs and horses. Millions of people on the other side of the globe.....

Many in the mid east think we are animals and morally bankrupt because we ( name so many things). One persons terrorist, is another persons freedom fighter.
Morals?
lol

But don't worry only your morals are right, right?
*******

On law and ethics.
While they are different, in many ways they aren't. Sounds like ( and I could be mistaken here) your confusing ethics.

Ethics are a code of conduct. Many professions have them for example. Lawyers, Doctors, Banker types, and many more. They often have their own bodies that guess what.....govern the codes and discipline people who break them.

In hunting we don't have such a governing body. Will never have one because some think their sense of right and wrong is right and others are wrong. Example many think hunting over bait doesn't follow the principle of fair chase (unethical), many other's do (ethical)

So who gets to play god.
you? Me?

The closest we have to Ethics and a code of conduct in the absence of a formal code of ethics is guess what. The FWCA and the laws. So at least as far as "ethics" go, hunting and differentiating from the law. Buzz your wrong.

So as far as hunting goes
If your within the law, your an ethical hunter
If your not within the law, that would be unethical
This isn't much grey or wiggle room in that.

I may feel that morally, it's not right to take and consume a daily limit. Those are "my" morals. I may feel theres nothing wrong with it, again my morals. Far be it for anyone to argue or say otherwise. Its certainly ethical (within the law/code of conduct).

You should study some of the great philosophers on the topics or morals and ethics. Maybe even think about some of the basic "test"...aka moral dilemma's. One such classic is

Your wife and a child are drowning. You can only save one them. Which do you let die?
Too each their own, morals are not universal. I know which my morals would have me saving. The next person? Their morals may say save the other. Who are they to say my moral compass is "wrong".

To the OP
Glad you had a great time visiting this wonderful province

+1

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[GW11]

Yes I do intend to continue riding my moral high horse around, fortunately I was taught from an early age that moral and ethical values are what truly defines a person and I will make avery effort to pass that on. As for the lack of intelligence to recognize and differentiate between law and ethics, I wouldn't realistically expect any meat hunter to possess such capacity let alone recognize between right and wrong regardless. I'm also proud to be a conservationist and appreciative of our resources and treat them with respect but if you or anyone else for that matter choose to harvest game indiscriminately, unfortunately I can't stop you but I have a moral obligation to voice my opinion because that's the way I was brought up and that's who and what I am, a conservationist not a meat hunter.

For someone striving to seem so intelligent, you may want to proof-read your posts.

Anyway... I nominate this as the most elitist post of 2016!

[Hunter John]

you have a crazy running for president right now.

You mean 2 crazies. LOL