Algonquin Land Claim - signed

[DanO]

BBG. The FN have the authority to develop the Treaty Land themselves correct? So they can take the money from the various royalties and utilize that to build resorts and marinas etc.?

They have had the sole right to hunt and fish the east side of APP for over 15 years. They do their best to regulate the moose hunt and the fishing in this area but FN have a habit of not obeying their own guidelines and regulations. They do have some enforcement but they have no legal framework to charge the individual unless they bring in the MNR and utilize the Ontario courts. The hunt is not as well run as the non-FN hunt and the harvest is backwards. They determine a quota for moose and then issue as many tags as they Band wants. They harvest until the quota is reached. Sounds great but Band members don't have to abide by the quota and the tag holders harvest what ever they want then look around for the correct tag to legitimize the harvest.

BTW I'm not FN but my kids and wife are part of the settlement claim.

[DanO]

I haven't done the homework you have because I don't need a coronary! Or a divorce!

[Bluebulldog]

I haven't done the homework you have because I don't need a coronary! Or a divorce!

Haha, true enough.

The main difference DanO is that this is not like any other process that has occurred thus far, in the province, nor the country.

This Treaty was a document that was created in good faith by both parties. This isn't just one band, it is several, and all had to reach a consensus, or it didn't happen.

Are there going to be some growing pains? Probably. Is it creating a huge reserve as many uneducated folks think? Not hardly.

Let's also keep in mind that the bands in the treaty represent a very small amount of people in a huge geographical area.

[Bluebulldog]

BBG. The FN have the authority to develop the Treaty Land themselves correct? So they can take the money from the various royalties and utilize that to build resorts and marinas etc.?

See, that's the thing. The Crown areas within the treaty area could possibly be developed, but not likely, as it is not only subject to approval from all signatories on the treaty, but also the usual checks and balances that would be in place with a private developer.

[Bluebulldog]

Further to my last. There is an interactive map which outlines the settlement lands that are being proposed. When you look at it, with reference to the crown land use atlas, it actually is very small.

For example, the crown land areas near my cottage in Arden ON, aren't even considered a part of the settlement lands proposed.

http://www.tanakiwin.com/imap.html

[DanO]

Well I'm not so fortunate. My camp is above Rolphton near Stonecliffe. I fish Grants Creek and hunt in the Bissett Creek area. I also hunt Big Gibson Lake near Bissett Creek. Guess I'll just make sure my wife or sons are with me. LOL. My BIL hunts the area west of Pembroke near Round Lake which is all landclaim. This will impact alot of Ottawa people since the love the crownland around Bissett Creek and it's become more and more crowded.

[JBen]

I didn’t really want to be here today. And I did everything within my power to try and avoid being here today……….And the reason is two-fold. First of all, I don’t like public speaking. I’d rather have a root canal and a vasectomy at the same time than stand in front of a group. The second reason is, I had 37 great years working for the Ministry of Natural Resources. And I don’t…....…..I don’t feel really good about standing on a stage and being a critic about my former employer. But I think I have to be and the reason is.......
~John Winters 2013


Well worth the 58 minutes of your life.

http://www.algonquinlandclaim.ca/maps.php
To stream it

Or download the file
John Winter's Conference Presentation

[DanO]

I knew you'd find the speech JB. I have seen the speech. It does make me nervous as well. I worked for MNR in Algonquin Park for 4 summers doing many things. I share his concerns. I portaged in 9 portages to get to what used to be a good walleye lake only to find a fleet of FN boats launched off of the closed road on the other side of the lake. Guess how the fishing was??? They are just as conservation minded as the non-FN.

I noticed the Quebec first nations are trying to get the Agreement stopped. Quebec must know they're next and the Quebec side of the river hasn't really changed since Samuel de Champlain paddled it. I doubt the FN only used the Ontario side of the river. There's a lot more undeveloped land to grab on their side of the river.

[JBen]

Funny (not really) and I hope no-one misreads what I'm about to say.
While everyone is looking at the gob smocking, eye popping amount of $ ( 550,000). I worked in a business when I used to trade 100million, 200mm, 500mm dollars worth this/that a day. Handled 100s of millions of dollars a day. Flew to NY and MTL with 20,40,50million in bearer bonds (cash essentially). I became well best word I can think of is jaded 5mm, 10mm "petty cash" sometimes almost embarrassed to call dealers and ask if they had 8million in BAs to sell. My sister was once on the phone with me while I was talking to someone about 40mm cash or something....Her words to me "how can you be so non challant about it".

$550m is "a lot" to me.

While everyone is focusing on lands and hunt camps outside APP.

Seems like everyone has forgotten about APP. What it is, why it is, why its a crown jewel of parks everywhere in the world...Forgotten about the wolves and coyotes we can no longer hunt. Why because they are so precious........Apparently not, well not with this anyways.

Once settled, its forever. Enshrined....
And there is so much "trust us, we'll handle it later" and more.

And as mentioned, well track records of a few things not the least of which is this admins ability to do anything even remotely well...Or Nippising or Cloys off Owen sound and gill nets and the law/politicians too afraid to enforce the law there or in Caledonia.... or and as he said "Trailer parks think it won't happen......it has, will and does"
Just head up north now.(aka Moose season and all the crap going on, left behind etc, etc etc).....

/edit damn auto spellers

[DanO]

I wonder once they sign the deal if the FN have their traditional rights restricted to the land they've acquired. Their activities throughout the rest of the Crown Land would then revert back to the Laws of Ontario. Otherwise what's the point of this whole exercise? I realize they get the harvest rights within the newly acquired land but it might be a good deal if they then adhere to the laws and seasons in the rest of the Crown Land that surrounds their land.

Guess I'm hoping for the best.