Waterfowling in a boat question.

[jaycee]

[COLOR=#333333][COLOR=#000000] Please take notes : "hunting from a moving boat is not permitted, not even shooting an injured bird, while the boat is in motion."

Some CO's might let you do it, but its against the law.

Can this thread be finally put to bed ? I'm tired of eating "pop corn "

[Sprite]

A small canoe towed behind your duck boat can save a pile of hassle. I've seen others use them and they work quite well. Just a suggestion......

A small canoe towed behind my layout tender in wide open water on Lake Ontario in a 2-3' swell sounds like a death trap to me.

-N.

[krakadawn]

3 wheelerdude

Hold on Huston, we have a problem. I just spoke with Jeronim who is at the front desk environment Canada. I shared with him the email from Gerry Brunet, Assistant Director of Wildlife Enforcement(Federal). He confirmed to go with Gerry and Mark's interpretation which I have included.

It seems we are in this debate due to how the federal regs and the provincial regs are articulated.

Read the last paragraph of Gerry's letter:COLOR=#1f497d]I would add, any person attempting [COLOR=#1f497d]to retrieve a migratory bird they have crippled or injured as per s. 16 MBRs, [COLOR=#1f497d]should do so in a manner that best ensures the safety of themselves and others; and once the crippled bird has been retrieved or the hunter’s attempt to retrieve the bird has ended, their firearm if loaded, should be immediately unloaded.

[COLOR=#1f497d]Hello [COLOR=#1f497d]Jim[COLOR=#1f497d]. Mark and I discussed your request.
[COLOR=#1f497d]
[COLOR=#1f497d]T[COLOR=#1f497d]he scenario you describe[COLOR=#1f497d]d in your below email[COLOR=#1f497d] would be acceptable and in compliance with the Migratory Birds Regulations (MBRs), as well as the Ontario Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act (FWCA).
[COLOR=#1f497d]
[COLOR=#1f497d]From a[COLOR=#1f497d]n[COLOR=#1f497d] enforcement perspective, an officer would need to observe or be satisfied the hunter was actively engaged in retrieving a [COLOR=#1f497d]wounded[COLOR=#1f497d] migratory bird[COLOR=#1f497d]. If an officer were satisfied the person was retrieving a migratory bird there should be no issue as per s.16(2) MBRs and s. 17(1)(a)(ii) FWCA. [COLOR=#1f497d]If[COLOR=#1f497d] not satisfied, an officer would likely investigate or charge the person for illegally hunting from a power boat (MBRs) or having a loaded firearm/discharging a firearm from a conveyance (FWCA).
[COLOR=#1f497d]
[COLOR=#1f497d]The general rule under the Migratory Birds Regulations (MBRs) regarding hunting from a power boat is found at ...
[COLOR=#1f497d]
[COLOR=#1f497d]s. 15(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) and section 23.1, no person shall hunt a migratory bird
[COLOR=#1f497d](e) from any aircraft, sailboat, power boat, or motorized vehicle, or any vehicle to which a draught animal is attached.
[COLOR=#1f497d]
[COLOR=#1f497d]The MBRs offer an exception to the general rule for a power boat found at ...
[COLOR=#1f497d]s. 2(3) A reference in these Regulations to the use of a power boat does not include the use of a power boat when the motor is not in operation and forward progress has ceased.
[COLOR=#1f497d]
[COLOR=#1f497d]As you're likely aware, s. 2(3) allows for migratory bird hunters to operate as they commonly do, hunting from power boats with blinds attached, so long as the motor is not in operation and forward progress has ceased.
[COLOR=#1f497d]
[COLOR=#1f497d]Further, s. 16(2) MBRs provides a notwithstanding clause to s. 15(1)(e) that allows for the use of a power boat when retrieving a migratory bird. In practice, this supports the requirement placed on a hunter under s. 16(1.1)(a).
[COLOR=#1f497d]
[COLOR=#1f497d]s. 16. (1.1) A person who kills, cripples or injures a migratory bird shall
[COLOR=#1f497d](a) immediately make every reasonable effort to retrieve the bird;
[COLOR=#1f497d]
[COLOR=#1f497d]s. 16. (2) Notwithstanding paragraph 15(1)(e), a power boat may be used for the purpose of retrieving a migratory bird.
[COLOR=#1f497d]
[COLOR=#1f497d]In summary, the MBRs don’t contain a section that prohibits the possession of a loaded firearm in a power boat. They do however prohibit the person from hunting a migratory bird from a power boat (as described in s. 15(1)(e) ), except where otherwise provided in the MBRs. In Ontario under the FWCA, there is a prohibition from having a loaded firearm in or on, or discharging a firearm from a conveyance. The FWCA appropriately makes reference to an exception to this offence if the person is hunting migratory birds from a motorboat in accordance with the MBRs. The specific section reads ...
[COLOR=#1f497d]
[COLOR=#1f497d]FWCA s. 17.(1) A person who is in an area usually inhabited by wildlife or who is on the way to or from an area usually inhabited by wildlife shall not,
[COLOR=#1f497d](a) have a loaded firearm in or on a conveyance or discharge a firearm from a conveyance, except if,
[COLOR=#1f497d](ii) the conveyance is a motorboat and the person is hunting migratory birds in accordance with the regulations under the Migratory Birds Convention Act,1994 (Canada);
[COLOR=#1f497d]
[COLOR=#1f497d]I would add, any person attempting [COLOR=#1f497d]to retrieve a migratory bird they have crippled or injured as per s. 16 MBRs, [COLOR=#1f497d]should do so in a manner that best ensures the safety of themselves and others; and once the crippled bird has been retrieved or the hunter’s attempt to retrieve the bird has ended, their firearm if loaded, should be immediately unloaded.
[COLOR=#1f497d]
[COLOR=#1f497d]Thanks,
[COLOR=#1f497d]
[COLOR=#1f497d]
[COLOR=black]Gerry Brunet
[COLOR=black]
[COLOR=black]Environment and Climate Change Canada / Government of Canada Operations Manager, Wildlife Enforcement Directorate, Enforcement Branch, Ontario Region, South Central District
[COLOR=black]867 Lakeshore Road, Burlington, Ontario L7S 1A1 [email protected] / Tel: (905) 319-6974 / Fax: (905) 319-6976
[COLOR=black]
[COLOR=black]Environnement et Changement climatique Canada / Gouvernement du Canada Gestionnaire des opérations, Direction de l'application de la loi sur la faune, Direction générale de l’application de la loi, Région de l'Ontario, District Sud-Central [email protected] / Tél.: (905) 319-6974 / Téléc: (905) 319-6976
[COLOR=black]
[COLOR=black]Confidentiality Warning: This message and any attachments may contain PRIVILEGED and CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION and is intended only for the use of the recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, conversion to hard copy, copying, circulation or other use of this message and any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender by return e-mail, and delete this message and any attachments from your system.
[COLOR=#1f497d]
[COLOR=#1f497d]

[COLOR=#1f497d]
[COLOR=#1f497d]
From: Robbins, Mark (MNRF) [[email protected]]
Sent: November 3, 2016 2:39 PM
To:
Cc: Brunet, Gerry (EC)
Subject: RE: Shooting cripples/waterfowl hunting



[COLOR=#1f497d]Hi Jim,
[COLOR=#1f497d]I always enjoy the Ontario Out of Doors questions. They are always interesting questions and always questions that many outdoors people share – yours is one of those common questions too.
[COLOR=#1f497d]Because the answer comes from a regulation under the federal Migratory Birds Convention Act I am going to ask my friend Gerry Brunet from Environment Canada to provide the answer, I want you to have the best information from the best source.
[COLOR=#1f497d]Thanks for writing and take care,
[COLOR=#1f497d]Mark
[COLOR=#1f497d]

[COLOR=#244061]Mark Robbins
[COLOR=#244061]Provincial Enforcement Specialist
[COLOR=#244061]Enforcement Branch
[COLOR=#244061]Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry
[COLOR=#244061]300 Water Street, 1st Floor
[COLOR=#244061]Peterborough, ON
[COLOR=#244061]K9J 8M5
[COLOR=#244061]
[COLOR=#244061]Phn: 705.755.1775
[COLOR=#244061]Fax: 705.755.1757
[email protected]
[COLOR=#244061]
[COLOR=#244061]ENFORCEMENT BRANCH MISSION: To safeguard the public interest by leading and delivering professional regulatory protection of Ontario’s natural resources.
[COLOR=#244061]This electronic transmission, including any accompanying attachments, contains confidential information that may be privileged and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law, and intended only for use by the recipient named above. Any distribution, review, dissemination or copying of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and permanently delete the copy you have received. Thank you.
[COLOR=#244061][COLOR=#244061]P[COLOR=#244061] Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

[COLOR=#1f497d]
[COLOR=#1f497d]
From: jim
Sent: November-03-16 12:28 PM
To: Robbins, Mark (MNRF)
Subject: Shooting cripples/waterfowl hunting

, Brune…
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[3Wheelerdude]

3 wheelerdude

Hold on Huston, we have a problem. I just spoke with Jeronim who is at the front desk environment Canada. I shared with him the email from Gerry Brunet, Assistant Director of Wildlife Enforcement(Federal). He confirmed to go with Gerry and Mark's interpretation which I have included.

It seems we are in this debate due to how the federal regs and the provincial regs are articulated.

Read the last paragraph of Gerry's letter:COLOR=#1f497d]I would add, any person attempting [COLOR=#1f497d]to retrieve a migratory bird they have crippled or injured as per s. 16 MBRs, [COLOR=#1f497d]should do so in a manner that best ensures the safety of themselves and others; and once the crippled bird has been retrieved or the hunter’s attempt to retrieve the bird has ended, their firearm if loaded, should be immediately unloaded.

Can you show me where in your email, you have confirmation that you can legally shoot from a moving boat???

Because I showed you , black on white, where they are telling me its against the law.

[rick_iles]

Can you show me where in your email, you have confirmation that you can legally shoot from a moving boat???

Because I showed you , black on white, where they are telling me its against the law.

[COLOR=#333333]I would add, any person attempting [COLOR=#333333][COLOR=#1f497d][COLOR=#333333]to retrieve a migratory bird they have crippled or injured as per s. 16 MBRs, [COLOR=#333333][COLOR=#1f497d][COLOR=#333333]should do so in a manner that best ensures the safety of themselves and others; and once the crippled bird has been retrieved or the hunter’s attempt to retrieve the bird has ended, their firearm if loaded, should be immediately unloaded.

[Sinker]

There are so many scenarios where you have no choice but to shoot from the boat to retrieve a cripple, but here is one:

I'm layout boat hunting a mile off shore in Lake Ontario. The man in the box wings a bluebill that sails 300yds downwind. I fire up the tender boat and give chase. I get almost in range of it when it dives.....

Now what??

S.

Nothing but crickets.....??

[steelshed]

[COLOR=#333333]I would add, any person attempting [COLOR=#333333][COLOR=#1f497d][COLOR=#333333]to retrieve a migratory bird they have crippled or injured as per s. 16 MBRs, [COLOR=#333333][COLOR=#1f497d][COLOR=#333333]should do so in a manner that best ensures the safety of themselves and others; and once the crippled bird has been retrieved or the hunter’s attempt to retrieve the bird has ended, their firearm if loaded, should be immediately unloaded.

It's seems like that statement is more so to back up the fact that he seems to think a loaded firearm in a boat under power is acceptable...(scenario, cripple bird, run out with boat while firearms are still loaded, stop boat and motor, shoot cripple and unload firearms) Notice how he doesn't come out and say that discharging at cripples while the power boat is operating is acceptable?

[steelshed]

Nothing but crickets.....??

Stop your boat where it dove and wait for it to resurface and then shoot it? Not that hard... May not get it the first time but eventually you will... I chase crippled divers in a kayak in calmer waters...

[trimmer21]

A small canoe towed behind my layout tender in wide open water on Lake Ontario in a 2-3' swell sounds like a death trap to me.

-N.

It would be,for sure. Just going out on Lake O this time of year would make me very nervous,indeed,canoe or no canoe.

[3Wheelerdude]

[COLOR=#333333]I would add, any person attempting [COLOR=#333333][COLOR=#1f497d][COLOR=#333333]to retrieve a migratory bird they have crippled or injured as per s. 16 MBRs, [COLOR=#333333][COLOR=#1f497d][COLOR=#333333]should do so in a manner that best ensures the safety of themselves and others; and once the crippled bird has been retrieved or the hunter’s attempt to retrieve the bird has ended, their firearm if loaded, should be immediately unloaded.

The word BOAT, or SHOOTING or MOTION/MOVING is not even in that paragraph.

Try again!