GBK , just read over again my post, and I did not say anywhere, that you said, or implied education was a widget. LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbk
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GBK , just read over again my post, and I did not say anywhere, that you said, or implied education was a widget. LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbk
Hi Kickingfrog and FisheMc-You are both right,if we look at wider picture.The MNRF are PS,and we discussed cost and PS here .Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Yet, it seems we concentrated though a lot on education part of PS-that is what i mean by sidetracked.
G “no offense” but being a public servant and your spouse a teacher, while it doesn’t discredit your thoughts, it does make them biased and subject to huge doses of salt.
No body has said or implied that teachers aren’t important. They simply aren’t as self “important” ( note quotes) as you and your unions think.
There’s more to the province than some self proclaimed all important. Servants.
And one only has to look around to see the oh so many things.
We can start with why Drummond had to be called in.
We can look at numerous reports that have measured growth vs growth elsewhere. Or simply the well established and unarguable erosion of the MC.....
We can look at the state of the lower middle class. And who have helped make your life so comfortable.
What you are so obviously blind to is that it’s “relative”...
Are “teachers” in Mexico or Uruguay paid north of 100k??
Why not.
You like to portray yourself as something of a socialist. Yet without fail, never actually think about the largest segment of society. And those who you can’t argue are in trouble.
A “widget” or house, or car, or diamond is only worth.....what the buyer, or market can afford.
With respect to the MNRF. It’s already been mentioned.
One reason, certainly not the only reason they are other areas are bearing the brunt is
They are low hanging fruit and easy targets. Unlike other ministries..........
Gee, and here I thought the left and social warriors thought the environment was the most important thing these days.
Totally agree! I've seen the behind closed doors of a working union. Not any prettier than behind the closed doors of management.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB
Ontario Hydro and OPP have benefits provided after retirement I think. I could stand to be corrected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Funny even though I worked in a union I always felt I could have done better with out a union. I did all the extras because frankly I enjoyed the time out side the classroom more than in. If the union would have allowed payment for the extras like coaching, outdoor ed trips, highway cleanups, winter camping etc etc, I'd have been paid better IMO. I was always told by the 3;30 track club (that's what teachers call the other teachers that frig off every day at the bell) that it was my choice to coach hockey, football, rugby etc. I know in the American system that pay a flat rate and then you're paid extra for doing extras.
Kind of like performance or merit pay Dan?
As mentioned a good friend is a teacher. She has 20+ years in. When the topic of teacher compensation she point to the salary grids...and being “top heavy”..
She can and will also point to the 7 years she spent in Sudbury on contract..........
Maybe if things were better structured young teachers wouldn’t have to struggle on contract for so long?
Few argue any more ( and this include union heads) that those is Public service earn 10-20% more than their counterparts and that’s begore benefits.
Hydro employees you mention do have benefits. And in order to get them to agree to their latest contract and reduction to 50% tax payer matches pension contribution from 70%...they got 3% of this that and the other when most working stiffs are lucky to see 1.5
Speaking of contracts
How many areas under the PS umbrella are trying to reduce cost by going contracts. My niece a nurse..6 years now and still not full time......
My fiancé was a Trent Uni. Good luck getting in Full time there. It could takes years and years. But they always seem to have $$ for labs, new buildings, ergonomic desk, hydraulic standing desk and sooooiooo much more.
Many municipalities are merging paramedics/fire. A lot of fire are going 24hr shifts......trying to save $$
We have the highest debt level...and as Ms Wynne would brag, one of the leanest PS (headcount) ....
Hmmmm
Maybe we could hire so very many more in so many areas if....
But hey “ps” isn’t overpaid relative to the working stiffs, or even often themselves.
I was an opeu member for awhile. The salary grid is stupid, and who do they sell down the river? Will just say I did not work with a single person that had anything good to say about Smokey or OPSEU
Anywho...
Not sure how people can’t see all the various signs.
Including populism, which really is classwarfare (oops news flash, identity and class politics don’t exist either)
:)
Forest for the trees imo
I've never worked under a union. My dad, brother and few uncles do. My dad had to deal with them until he sold his business. My other uncle had to deal with them until he sold his business to a large corp. I still have one uncle that is growing grey hairs dealing with unions. I have two cousins with a tiling company that is unionized. I know enough about it. They for sure have treated employees well, but still the unions make demands and make it difficult for them to stay competitive. The big housing developers don't care about what the union wants when you're in the middle of a big contract, you have to eat the cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
Anyhow, that is exactly my point ... there should be a balance of power, and given how in bed the unions are with the Liberals, it caused the power to tip to the unions, so costs go up! And then business shuts down! And then everyone loses.
That sounds just about like 99% of the jobs out there. Who gets benefits after they retire? Not me ... not my dad, uncles, friends ... I'm not sure who does get benefits after retirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri