A Very Big Mistake

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Gilroy - so your saying that the A bombs should not have been used even after it was estimated that 1 million casualties would be suffered invading the Japan homeland - is that what you are saying -

If you were limited to name one thing that contributed to the defeat of the axis powers during WWII any historian worth his salt would tell you it was the giant industrial power of the U.S. - more ships, tanks, planes were being built than the enemy could destroy -

And as far as the U.S. needing other countries to become a super power - come on give me a break - Europe was always getting into trouble and had to get help to survive let along help other others -

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The Americans could have continued to use the firebombing tactics instead of the nukes, they killed far far more than the nukes did, look up Operation Meetinghouse for example. They had several options over a direct invasion, Okinawa showed the problems and casualties, the 1,000,000 casualties does not even include the Japanese and the Americans had the option of just letting them starve for a year or so too. Starvation has been used by the Soviets against the Ukraine, the Great Famine in China etc. but is likely not a tactic that the Americans had the heart, patience and manpower for. That kind of tactic would have worked but say a 10% starvation death rate would have been atleast 7,000,000 people dying slow deaths in Japan.

Just ignore G (and Bad).... his opinion and facts seldom come even close to each other. The "history" and political views are nothing short of leftist trolling. Debating or arguing with him is nothing more than an entertainment to him it seems so he can make anti-fact sh** up like a troll. You can lead a horse to water but not make him think and you can lead a G to facts and not get him to think. :moose:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

If you were limited to name one thing that contributed to the defeat of the axis powers during WWII any historian worth his salt would tell you it was the giant industrial power of the U.S. - more ships, tanks, planes were being built than the enemy could destroy -

And as far as the U.S. needing other countries to become a super power - come on give me a break - Europe was always getting into trouble and had to get help to survive let along help other others -

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That might be what an American WWII historian would claim completely ignoring USSR's willingness to sacrifice millions of its people on the Eastern Front. Its materials production that Stalin wisely moved further east matched or even exceeded American production in some cases.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

That might be what an American WWII historian would claim completely ignoring USSR's willingness to sacrifice millions of its people on the Eastern Front. Its materials production that Stalin wisely moved further east matched or even exceeded American production in some cases.

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It's too bad Marshall and Eisenhower didn't listen to Patton who advocated continuing on pushing the Russians back to the eastern border of Poland while manpower and materiel were still available. The world would have been a very different and safer place.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

It's too bad Marshall and Eisenhower didn't listen to Patton who advocated continuing on pushing the Russians back to the eastern border of Poland while manpower and materiel were still available. The world would have been a very different and safer place.

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In WW2 the Russians sent wave attacks of unarmed men against probably the best equipped troops in the world at the time. Shot if you went forward, shot if you turned back... Ukrainian genocide etc. the Russians considered their people as just a target to let the Germans use up ammo. The one friend of my Dad's served on the Western Front and one time he described being on one side of a river covered in ice and they just used the machine guns to sweep the river as thousands unarmed or maybe with a pitchfork rushed forward and cut down like cutting the grass. For the elites of the left anyone but their group is just a disposable tool about the level of toilet paper or facial tissue. The toilet paper needed tanks, they built the cheapest and as many as possible, they needed planes the, Polikarpovs, the TU-2, IL-2, the MIG 1 & 3, toilet paper needed rifles Mosins and M44 etc. Just look at the difference, the Finns took the same rifle modified it and during the Winter war held off the Russians, we see the old Brewster Buffalo and Finn aircraft having a kill ratio I have seen of a ridiculous 50 (I've seen over 70) to 1, Russians resorting to ram and shoot tactics on German tanks... disposables.


It may have been safer in the short term in history but Russia just moved 100,000 troops to the border of Ukraine, China is building military islands/bases in the South China Sea, Iran is trying to build nukes, Pakistan is building them by the dozen, we have politicians sending millions to UNRWA that helps HAMAS, suicide bombers, Wuhan Pneumonia paranoia and coverups etc..... safe is questionable, more like the tight rope walker is still good, but as debts, scandals, political pressure, military pressure pile up that balancing pole keeps getting more weights added.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

It's too bad Marshall and Eisenhower didn't listen to Patton who advocated continuing on pushing the Russians back to the eastern border of Poland while manpower and materiel were still available. The world would have been a very different and safer place.

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I doubt they would have been able to..
By the end of WWII Soviet Union had a very strong trained army and a very well oiled production system/supply chain east of Ural mountains and support of local "liberated" nations (those nations only understood what they signed up for later on, but not in 1945).
This would have results in many additional years of war..

JoePa;1182432Gilroy - so your saying that the A bombs should not have been used even after it was estimated that 1 million casualties would be suffered invading the Japan homeland - is that what you are saying -


Reply. You just proved my point that Japan gave America much more than a bloody nose. So much so that in the end being afraid to lose so many more soldiers they resorted to dropping two bomb's on mostly civilians. NOTHING TO BE PROUD OF.

If you were limited to name one thing that contributed to the defeat of the axis powers during WWII any historian worth his salt would tell you it was the giant industrial power of the U.S. - more ships, tanks, planes were being built than the enemy could destroy -

Reply. Yes that is true Joe America was great at production and lets not forget it was not free

"The debt was to be paid off in 50 annual repayments commencing in 1950. Some of these loans were only paid off in the early 21st century. On 31 December 2006, Britain made a final payment of about $83m (£45.5m) and thereby discharged the last of its war loans from the US."

And as far as the U.S. needing other countries to become a super power - come on give me a break - Europe was always getting into trouble and had to get help to survive let along help other others -[/QUOTE]

Reply. America only helps other countries when its in her own strategic interests.

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Gilroy - what do you think would have happened if it wasn't for the U.S. of A getting involved - you would be living under a communist government - much of the globe is free because of the U.S. - yes mistakes were made but the U.S. saved the free world - you should be thankful for that -

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Well Joe you have a communist government right next door to you in Cuba.

You have a communist government in China that currently holds ONE TRILLION DOLLARS in US Treasury bonds.

Your little country Japan is right up there to "China and Japan alone hold a combined $2.4 trillion of U.S. government debt."

So Joe who won the war, China beat you in Vietnam, China has beat you at Capitalism your own game.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

It's too bad Marshall and Eisenhower didn't listen to Patton who advocated continuing on pushing the Russians back to the eastern border of Poland while manpower and materiel were still available. The world would have been a very different and safer place.

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LOL if that had happened the Americans would still be fighting there, they would have resorted to using more atomic bombs.

At the end of WWII we had the most powerful military in the world and the only country with the bomb - no country could have stood up against us - including Russia - any war that America didn't win can be blamed on the politicians not on its fighting men -

America in those days was something special - those living then were called the greatest generation for a reason - the sad thing is that America is gone - like the American frontier - gone - never will this country reach the level of greatness that it once had - why? - because it is no longer made up of people of moral character - those running the show now are nothing but a bunch of Godless progressives who just like to tear things down and replace them with garbage -

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Originally Posted by JoePa

At the end of WWII we had the most powerful military in the world and the only country with the bomb - no country could have stood up against us - including Russia - any war that America didn't win can be blamed on the politicians not on its fighting men -

America in those days was something special - those living then were called the greatest generation for a reason - the sad thing is that America is gone - like the American frontier - gone - never will this country reach the level of greatness that it once had - why? - because it is no longer made up of people of moral character - those running the show now are nothing but a bunch of Godless progressives who just like to tear things down and replace them with garbage -

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I beg to differ the Godless were the Republican hawks who made up lies and engaged in deceit to attack Iraq and start a domino effect in the Middle East that has cost the lives of millions of people, mostly civilians. But when you engage in wars that are not righteous you will end up suffering, 65 thousand of your soldiers have committed suicide, what does that tell you?

The Taliban took over Afghanistan after a prolonged war that your country lost. Iraq, Syria, Libya, all destroyed and in a mess.

Nobody is thanking America its reputation in tatters after Republicans and Trump disgraced the entire country.


Here are the Godless Republicans tearing things down, namely their own democracy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4JzUCGxC6w