Hunter reporting penalties increase

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Now,just hold on a minute. If those bureaucrats can't get data from us,that means they have to get it themselves in the form of expensive surveys so they don't have to come out from behind their cushy office desks and that costs big bucks which we ultimately have to pay for in the form of increased fees for everything. Those people could screw up The Lord's Prayer (if they knew it),so,let's keep giving them all the data they need. Then,we don't need to deal with the fall-out.

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First reply to Meghan thread , there must be a few of us around LOL

Contrary to the tv hunters, and social media participants, hunting is still an intensely personal thing to the majority of hunters. Most hunters choose not to disclose exact locations or methods or even harvest details for that matter. There are a few blabbermouths and braggarts but for the most part where, when, and what you did when afield is nobodies business as long as no laws were broken and the hunt was ethical. MNR should get out there and DO THEIR JOB, instead of asking hunters to do it for them. What happened to aerial surveys over winter yarding areas? This should not only be easy and accurate, but also cost effective in this age of technology and drones etc.. The MNR would much rather have an additional income by adding a tax on those who wish to maintain their right to privacy. IT IS THAT SIMPLE.
The MNR has colossally mismanaged the deer and moose herds in Ontario and their reactive strategy of management through enforcement is a dismal failure. Several game species could simply be evaluated by roadside observation. Habitat is continually being threatened by land clearing & the draining of swamps and wetlands, which goes on unchecked in much of Ontario’s farmland. This has resulted in once rich and diverse woodlands be reduced to a few token trees at best. In some areas you can now see from one concession road right thru to the next so game counts should be a breeze with a simple pair of binoculars. This habitat reduction has affected deer populations to the point of crash levels but the MNR has yet to reduce tag limits as this would cut into the revenue stream. I’d suggest they get bent and although I’m no legal expert, I’m wondering how withholding a license for not reporting (the obvious MNR next step) would stand up to a court challenge? No other license system requires reporting of any kind once the fees have been paid and the license granted. What’s next in this nanny state? a report on where I drove, when I drove, what I did, who my passengers or cargo were, so I can renew my DL???

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

You have a 100 acre cattle farm and you pay a manager a good salary to run the farm for you, your cattle produce offspring during the year, at the end of the year you ask your manager how many of the cattle you can harvest to market. The manager then asks you the employer to go around the farm and count them for him and next year the manager will make a decision based on the employers survey. LOL

The whole point is, if we have so many rules and regulations already, why do they have to pile on and add more of them.

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The penalty is not another rule-but upholding/enforcing existing one.
Much like parking tickets for disobeying parking rules.

I can not imagine the cattle manager can do much more then in the example posted(other then counting the herd himself.)
Now-mirroring it to the topic-that would be a major task for the MNRF Management.LOL

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Originally Posted by gbk

The penalty is not another rule-but upholding/enforcing existing one.
Much like parking tickets for disobeying parking rules.

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and if you don't clear them parking tickets yup you can't renew your license.

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Originally Posted by gbk

The penalty is not another rule-but upholding/enforcing existing one.
Much like parking tickets for disobeying parking rules.

I can not imagine the cattle manager can do much more then in the example posted(other then counting the herd himself.)
Now-mirroring it to the topic-that would be a major task for the MNRF Management.LOL

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See post 11 above where a commentator writes his views in the last few sentences and I agree fully with his comments to this increase in fines.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

First reply to Meghan thread , there must be a few of us around LOL

Contrary to the tv hunters, and social media participants, hunting is still an intensely personal thing to the majority of hunters. Most hunters choose not to disclose exact locations or methods or even harvest details for that matter. There are a few blabbermouths and braggarts but for the most part where, when, and what you did when afield is nobodies business as long as no laws were broken and the hunt was ethical. MNR should get out there and DO THEIR JOB, instead of asking hunters to do it for them. What happened to aerial surveys over winter yarding areas? This should not only be easy and accurate, but also cost effective in this age of technology and drones etc.. The MNR would much rather have an additional income by adding a tax on those who wish to maintain their right to privacy. IT IS THAT SIMPLE.
The MNR has colossally mismanaged the deer and moose herds in Ontario and their reactive strategy of management through enforcement is a dismal failure. Several game species could simply be evaluated by roadside observation. Habitat is continually being threatened by land clearing & the draining of swamps and wetlands, which goes on unchecked in much of Ontario’s farmland. This has resulted in once rich and diverse woodlands be reduced to a few token trees at best. In some areas you can now see from one concession road right thru to the next so game counts should be a breeze with a simple pair of binoculars. This habitat reduction has affected deer populations to the point of crash levels but the MNR has yet to reduce tag limits as this would cut into the revenue stream. I’d suggest they get bent and although I’m no legal expert, I’m wondering how withholding a license for not reporting (the obvious MNR next step) would stand up to a court challenge? No other license system requires reporting of any kind once the fees have been paid and the license granted. What’s next in this nanny state? a report on where I drove, when I drove, what I did, who my passengers or cargo were, so I can renew my DL???

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The mandatory survey uncovers information (hunter effort, harvest, and game sightings) that the aerial surveys cannot obtain.

Im not sure why you are so worked up, you’ve probably wilfully divulged more about yourself and your hunting activities on this forum than what the government would even think to ask.

Would you prefer that the government guess what hunters have experienced in order to make management decisions, or is it better to gather and use information obtained directly from hunters. I dunno, it seems like a no-brainer to me.

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Originally Posted by Sam Menard

The mandatory survey uncovers information (hunter effort, harvest, and game sightings) that the aerial surveys cannot obtain.

Im not sure why you are so worked up, you’ve probably wilfully divulged more about yourself and your hunting activities on this forum than what the government would even think to ask.

Would you prefer that the government guess what hunters have experienced in order to make management decisions, or is it better to gather and use information obtained directly from hunters. I dunno, it seems like a no-brainer to me.

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Well Sam I am not actually worked up and the comment you posted is from another hunter who seems more worked up than me.

However I do agree with his position and would add that this is just another way to get tax revenue and it turns off people hunting as its another rule to comply with under threat of punishment.

By threatening hunters you might end up encouraging some folks to submit replies that are less than honest. How does that help to manage the game.

The questions now being posed are getting pretty tricky and its gone from a simple return to an investigative tool for potential prosecutions.

I believe one of the deer questions was what was the day and time of your deer kill or words to that effect. So now your pocking around a few weeks later to gather this information, its easy if you took a photo on a smart phone and can bring it up, if you did not you had better remember or have the old tag nearby.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

However I do agree with his position and would add that this is just another way to get tax revenue and it turns off people hunting as its another rule to comply with under threat of punishment. .

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It be a tax grab if they charged you to submit a report. Most don't have a right to hunt its a privilege that comes with responsibilities namely following the rules and regulations and yes filling out the report is one of them. Choices always come with consequences and that's the fact of life. Choose to fill it out suffer no adverse effects, choose not too pay the penalties or loose your privilege simple as that, with no sinister intent than that

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

The questions now being posed are getting pretty tricky and its gone from a simple return to an investigative tool for potential prosecutions.
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Don't know about deer but with the turkey report its simple questions as to what unit you were in days hunted birds seen and game harvested. Just it would be tricky if your lying as always harder to remember the lies than remembering the truth. In any case if it uncovers a poacher I'd look at it as value added service. The truth will always set you free

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

By threatening hunters you might end up encouraging some folks to submit replies that are less than honest. How does that help to manage the game.

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People are creatures of habit and so either truthful or not they will respond consistently and hence over time trends will emerge. Pretty sure the exact numbers are of little importance but the trend up or down is what they want to monitor. Game management is a long term plan.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I believe one of the deer questions was what was the day and time of your deer kill or words to that effect. So now your pocking around a few weeks later to gather this information, its easy if you took a photo on a smart phone and can bring it up, if you did not you had better remember or have the old tag nearby.

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Why wait a few weeks later? What stops you from filing that evening or next day while fresh in your recollection? In any case while you still have meat in your possession that tag needs to be readily available anyways.

So with a whole lot more benefits and really don't see any negatives or hardship to comply other than sheer stubbornness I'm OK with the requirement and happy to comply to do my part. Kind of like voting if you don't participate can't really complain after the fact.

One thing kind of cool as an incentive is the chance to win an ATV just for doing the survey.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

One thing kind of cool as an incentive is the chance to win an ATV just for doing the survey.

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forgot about that tooo, Carrot or the Stick some are motivated by different incentives.

"Why wait a few weeks later? What stops you from filing that evening or next day while fresh in your recollection? In any case while you still have meat in your possession that tag needs to be readily available anyways.

So with a whole lot more benefits and really don't see any negatives or hardship to comply other than sheer stubbornness I'm OK with the requirement and happy to comply to do my part. Kind of like voting if you don't participate can't really complain after the fact."


Just adds to my objections, why should I have to run around for them and jump when demanded. I make my return when I get the reminder and not before.

The tag is not with me, its left with the butcher as he needs it while processing, once its processed its junk, so I don't have it.

Why are they now asking questions about the day and time harvested, this has nothing to do with managing the resource and more to do with preventing poaching, but they are not being honest with their questions. IMHO