Journey with the 10ML-II

Mike Pal

If you’re not totally fixated on range capabilities let’s look at a few other positive points of the 10ML-II.

No smoke cloud to obscure your vision say when you hit a deer. You will see exactly if it drops or what direction it takes trying to escape.

No issue if you don’t clean it right away. After 1-hunting season I forgot about cleaning it and 3-months later discovered that oversight. Cleaned her up and no bore damage whatsoever observed.

Don’t use the larger amount of powder as say a BP requires for high performance.

You’ve already stated the point of barrel strength quality.

So would you consider these mentions as desirable for a quality ML?


Ed

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Ed, it's pretty hard to expound on the virtues of a specific gun without comparing it's capabilities to an accepted 'baseline'. One of the biggest claims of the Savage is it's capabilities for long range, but I rarely hear of guys shooting it beyond 200 yds so I was curious to see if it performs any better in reality.

Sort of like the differences between buy a Lexus, a Camry and a Corrola...they all will get you to work and back..but what are the real attributes between them to warrant the extra cost.



Yea I'm following some forums Jack, but have seen where guys are shooting the Ultimate ML with consistent groups at 300 yds, but the results are less than acceptable for the 'precision' shooters, but acceptable guys shooting 300 yd 'vital' shots for hunting.



I think this is more so ( or at least more noticeable) with the ML's in general, it's not the preferred choice of a gun for guys that are looking for a sniper rifle :)

I'm not criticizing the Savage ML10-II or the choice of guys who have bought them, but when your expounding on how great it is, you should be able to pony up some comparisons to prove out the claims of it's superiority.

Especially when there appears to be issues that required after market rebuilds to re-engineer the ignition components for an extra $130.

https://www.prbullet.com/s-kit.htm

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We have 6 guys in our group who use the Savage and nobody has modified the ignition system nor have we ever had any kind of ignition problem. If what you want is a toy to shoot at the range then the advantages of a savage may not have value to you. When in the bush for 10 days living in a wall tent the ability to shoot it and not have to clean it until you return home after the hunt without damage is very useful. Seeing how the game reacts at the shot is also very useful. The increased velocity makes these solid 200 yd guns on game up to moose. Sure some very skilled and experienced shot can stretch that but the poor ballistics of the bullets will never make these into a centerfire range performer. Lipstick on a pig type thing. We have killed quite a few moose and some of those would have never been attempted with a BP gun. As for comparing prices, the cheap metal used and rudimentary triggers in these Spanish guns will never really compare so it's not a fair comparison. Sure they will both kill and go boom but that doesn't make them comparable. You seem to not be interested in buying one, OK. Not sure why you need to justify your decision?

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Originally Posted by ET1

No smoke cloud to obscure your vision say when you hit a deer. You will see exactly if it drops or what direction it takes trying to escape.

No issue if you don’t clean it right away. After 1-hunting season I forgot about cleaning it and 3-months later discovered that oversight. Cleaned her up and no bore damage whatsoever observed.

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Morning Ed....to be honest I like the smoke and it has never been a detriment to my shooting. Even when it lingers you can still see the deer thru the haze. Almost all of my deer have dropped where they stand so I don't see it as an issue for that sec or two. So it's not a negative in my books, in fact I love it on the range on a cool frosty morning when the smoke lingers in the air, adds a nice component to sport.

As far a cleaning, these new BP substitutes like BH209 don't require immediate cleaning anymore, not like the old BPs like Goex etc you may have used in the past. I missed cleaning an area inside the beech under the barrel last fall and I just noticed it when I was getting the ML ready for Turkey season last week and it cleaned right up. That corrosive problem is no longer an issue with the new powders

Oh..and yes, if I seem fixated on the range capabilities....isn't that the only true measure of a guns worth ?

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Originally Posted by terrym

You seem to not be interested in buying one, OK. Not sure why you need to justify your decision?

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Au contraire Terry, I am indeed interested in upgrading my ML in the near future and was curious to know why so many guys own these Savages. Being it's the only one on this forum that guys go on and on about there must be something to it , but no one seems able to substantiate just what makes it a superior ML. It sure is a step up in quality from the sub $400 ML, but is that all ?

It reminds me of when I was looking for a crossbow and everyone on here was so infatuated with the Excalibur....I asked and never got a better answer other than it's great "because you could change the string in the field". After some research thru some U.S. Archery forums I found that the Excalibur was tested and rated as mediocre bow at best. A case of a lot of hyperbole by owners.

"Not sure why you need to justify your decision"....not sure how to answer that Terry, they cost $1K + and your not sure why I'm asking questions ?

As an aside, do you guys even know why Ball choose to design the ML10 to shoot Smokeless powder ?

Mike you can't even buy one anymore. Stick with your BP and be happy.

I love how certain participants on this forum love to compare smokeless ml's to bp. There really is no comparison. You will never achieve the same accuracy........end of story.

Unless you are an experienced handloader with proper scales I actually discourage the buying of a Savage ML10. The reality is they can't be handled like a BP gun. I find the biggest limitations are from suitable sabots/bullets not the gun itself. When you switch to smokeless youvnever look back unless you just like to play with BP and like to wear coonskin.....:silly:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

As an aside, do you guys even know why Ball choose to design the ML10 to shoot Smokeless powder ?

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Ball went with savage because they were the only manufacturer to build a production smokeless muzzleloader. He built many smokeless muzzys on different platforms

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Oh..and yes, if I seem fixated on the range capabilities....isn't that the only true measure of a guns worth ?

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Good Morning Mike

That is a fair question and a good number of shooters also see it this way.
I personally don’t view it this way. I see extra velocity giving me a longer PBR to work with. The extra range capacity to me is an open option if I choose to go this route. With so few ranges not having distances over 200yds there is no way I can really do load confirmations and honing that skill so I opted for 200yds as my normal max.

I choose a firearm for numerous points such as dependability and accuracy being at the top of the list. As for the previous mention of re-engineering I have never had an off the shelf firearm and factory ammo shoot as good as when it has been bedded, trigger adjusted and different reloading components used. The 10ml-II has responded the same for the most part.

The 10ML-II has met all my desirable requirements for a muzzle loader and has never let me down in the field even under poor weather conditions. From my mentality and view point it is a top class muzzle loader that provides overall optimum performance. And when you have something that good naturally you like to share it with others by pointing out these qualities.


Ed

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Originally Posted by Final Flight

I love how certain participants on this forum love to compare smokeless ml's to bp. There really is no comparison. You will never achieve the same accuracy........end of story.

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Well that is what prompted this discussion, I wanted to know if guys were proving out the claims of accuracy beyond 200 yds.

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Originally Posted by smokeeter

Ball went with savage because they were the only manufacturer to build a production smokeless muzzleloader. He built many smokeless muzzys on different platforms

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No, that's not the reason...

I don't know why you guys are being so defensive, my intention is not to criticize your purchases or the use of smokeless powder in a ML....I'm just trying to figure out why they became so popular. I haven't seen any reasoning as to why there is such loyalty to them. So I'm asking if guys are shooting them out 300+ yds, primarily to see if changing to smokeless would have any benefits beyond buying a high end BP gun.

Mike I know a guy that has taken deer at just over 300 yards.