A Tundra Swan Season In Ontario

Hello Guys,

A quick response to your comments:

1) Duck Slayer ... a special financial summary along with a special "waterfowler" request will be posted shortly in response to the support that I have received. Thank you for your support.

2) Mojo Stick ... I appreciated your comments and I thank you for your support. Please read the special financial summary along with a special "waterfowler" request that will be posted shortly.

3) Sinker ... some individuals have legitimate concerns that have to be addressed and I believe that the CWS Tundra Swan Season Assessment has done that. However they have every right to ask additional questions and I respect that right. Thank you for your support.

4) Tin Man ... the Tundra Swan tags in the United States use to cost $5.00 but they are currently $10.00. I suggested a $20.00 fee in my 2011 survey and the vast majority of respondents agreed that $20.00 (similar to the Wild Turkey tag) was reasonable. This would bring in about $80,000.00 per year in tag sales for the CWS to fund the program in addition to my $10,000.00 grant to implement the Tundra Swan season and my annual $4,000.00 grant to monitor the Tundra Swan harvest. Consequently the Tundra Swan tag may be $20.00 (certainly not $100.00). Furthermore I have pledged to reimburse 100 "waterfowlers" (individuals who hunt ducks, geese and swans) for their Tundra Swan tags (maximum of $20.00) if they support this proposal (details to be disclosed shortly). So I have in essence "guaranteed" the CWS that they will sell at least 101 Tundra Swan tags (I will buy one for myself) if they implement a Tundra Swan season. Thank you for your support.

4) Fenelon ... please advise me how I can take the mandatory online Swan Hunter Course as I am interested in learning about all the options available to limit (however effectively) the potential incidental harvest of a Trumpeter Swan. However I must disagree with you about the "vocalization part" as I have consistently noticed that the Tundra Swans are rather vocal in flight around Long Point ... on the water, on take off, in the air, over the blind, on landing and in the fields around town. I have been observing the Tundra Swans every morning and afternoon while they are migration through the Long Point area every fall and spring since I moved to my new house in 2011 whether the flock is 3 to 5 birds, 10 to 12 birds, 24 to 48 birds or up into the hundreds. Last fall I positively identified two (2) Trumpeter Swans by their larger size and their vocal characteristics as they flew over my backyard two afternoons in a row and then again the following week ... all three times I heard them before I saw them. Furthermore while hunting within the Long Point Waterfowl Management Unit over the last several years I have generally heard the Tundra Swans approaching my blind before I actually saw them.

I made reference to the three (3) populations of Trumpeter Swans because of your reference to the Montana Tundra Swan harvest (from both the Western Population and the Eastern Population) which included the incidental harvest of some Trumpeter Swans. Any incidental harvest of Trumpeter Swans in an Ontario Tundra Swan harvest would be from the Interior Population of Trumpeter Swans. Furthermore that portion of the Interior Population of Trumpeter Swans that may be affected has been identified within the CWS Tundra Swan Season Assessment as having increased by 135% in the last five (5) years.

Finally ... please remember that a Tundra Swan season would probably not be Province wide and areas known to be Trumpeter Swan "hot spots" would obviously be "closed" to swan hunting.

Thanks again to all of you for your interest.

Jerome

Exactly Greatwhite!!!! Def not the response I expected from jobberhunting........this me me me generation is just sickening!!!! Then there is other guys worried about 6 swans and want everybody not to be able to hunt the thousands and thousands of swans that migrate through Ont. every year because there are 6 swans on Sturgeon lake..........ridiculous!!!!! Funny part is right away you got guys agreeing with him!! Very scary to think what we will and wont be able to do in the future........best start taking up cross stitching......sad part is the me me me generation will prob worry about how many injury's will occur from people falling on the needles........sad...

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Originally Posted by Buddy Boy

Hello Guys,

Finally ... please remember that a Tundra Swan season would probably not be Province wide and areas known to be Trumpeter Swan "hot spots" would obviously be "closed" to swan hunting.

Thanks again to all of you for your interest.

Jerome

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Yes, this is key. I would NOT support a tundra season on sturgeon lake, or any other body of water with breeding pairs of trumpeter swans. Obviously.

Areas like long point, and Lake St. Clair could easily sustain a harvest of tundra's, and there are enough of them that correctly identifying them wouldn't be as hard as you'd think.

There's also the fact that any waterfowler who wants to harvest a tundra, is going to make damn sure he's shooting the right species of bird. I don't think your going to find the weekend warriors out targeting swans.



S.

Hello Guys,

A quick response to your comments:

1) Jobber Shunting ... please see my comments to Fenelon about "vocal" birds in my last post. I would also like to emphasize that a Tundra Swan season would probably not be Province wide and areas known to be Trumpeter Swan "hot spots" would obviously be "closed" to swan hunting.

Please see my previous comments regarding the Mute Swan problem.

2) Dyth Bringer ... I agree with your example and I submitted a letter of support for the Spring Bear Hunt even though I only hunt "waterfowl" ... ducks, geese and eventually swans. Thank you for your support.

3) Great White ... you are absolutely right ... if we prohibited the hunting of every species that some of us did not want to hunt then we would not having any hunting in Ontario ... end of discussion. I thank you for your continued support.

4) Fenelon ... we must be communicating mentally somehow as you responded to the request in my last post at about the same time that I was typing it on my "word pad" before transferring it to this thread. What if we had some "No Swan Hunting Areas" to protect the Trumpeter Swan in Ontario along with a limited Tundra Swan harvest ... would that help in resolving your main concern. Thank you for your continued comments, interest and for the Swan Hunter Course web site.

Thanks again to all of you for your interest.

Jerome

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

Here is the webpage for the swan hunter mandatory course in the States, in case you wish to take the test http://www.utah-hunt.com/utswancourse/. Dyth - I too would openly support a Tundra hunt if there were no Trumpeters here. In fact, it would probably be a good thing, as half the birds shot would probably be Mutes! For the folks who think I am overplaying the idea that a species recognition course would be pretty much useless, I ask that you take a road trip to Presquille this fall. Go to Weller's Bay off Salt Point. Third week in November, up until the second week in December, when the back marsh has frozen. All three species of swan will be present, often in good numbers. Book a lake blind in the park if you can, and you're viewing will be better, and you'll prob. have some swans scout your outer diver dekes. Good luck picking out the adult Tundras. Forget about separating the cygnets. So what it boils down to is this, and it's a corker - knowing what's gone in to bringing the Trumpter back to this province, are you willing to kill these birds, as an acceptable consequence of having a Tundra hunt?

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Fenelon,

You make a good points and I understand them. However, how many times in a hunting season do we hear of species mis-identification by hunters? Dogs are mistaken for coyotes, elk are mistaken for deer, I have even hear of the clueless shooting at a farmer's cows. Do we stop hunting those species because of mis-identification? No we don't. How many hunters got their angry because the spring bear hunt was cancelled because "too many hunters were shooting sows with cubs" which if happened was a clear case of mis-identification. I don't want trumpters shot either. We as hunters have to always know what our target is and if it is legal to take (and what is beyond it), this is a basic skill we hunters need to have. By saying you don't think tundras should be hunted because there are hunters out there who will mis-identify them allows a logical arguement that all species of game animals can be mis-identified and hunters shouldn't be allowed to hunt any game animals.

Dyth

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

I don't hunt Doves not worth my time. They should ban that. I only hunt geese until Dec, let's ban it. I don't hunt Spring bear let's ban it.

If you can't support other hunters we truly should just ban hunting altogether.

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Greatwhite you are being rather facetious.

The two proposals (dove hunt & swan hunt) are similar in nature, but different in their complexity.

When you are dove hunting, are there any other bird species that look nearly identical, occupy the same habitat, migrate at similar times and are protected by conservation laws? If dove hunting had a high potential for collateral damage to protected species such as the Bobolink, Chimney Swift or Canada Warbler, I wouldn't support it either, however, that is not the case.

My stance in not supporting the hunting of swans has nothing to do with my inclination to hunt them or not, it has to do with the protection of another similar species that I truly believe most people cannot and could not differentiate between in a hunting scenario. End of story.

Again, if it were for Mutes only, I am all for it.

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Originally Posted by duckslayer

Exactly Greatwhite!!!! Def not the response I expected from jobberhunting........this me me me generation is just sickening!!!! Then there is other guys worried about 6 swans and want everybody not to be able to hunt the thousands and thousands of swans that migrate through Ont. every year because there are 6 swans on Sturgeon lake..........ridiculous!!!!! Funny part is right away you got guys agreeing with him!! Very scary to think what we will and wont be able to do in the future........best start taking up cross stitching......sad part is the me me me generation will prob worry about how many injury's will occur from people falling on the needles........sad...

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Not even sure how to respond to this mess. Where in my post did you feel I was representing this "me me me generation"? Was it when I made a statement that went against the grain and challenged the popular opinion? Independent thought is scary, hopefully it won't limit my cross-stitching potential.

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

Fenelon,

You make a good points and I understand them. However, how many times in a hunting season do we hear of species mis-identification by hunters? Dogs are mistaken for coyotes, elk are mistaken for deer, I have even hear of the clueless shooting at a farmer's cows. Do we stop hunting those species because of mis-identification? No we don't.

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Dyth, I think you made his point beautifully.

Cant wait til this goes through. I just want one so I can get a nice close look at one. Doubt the wife would approve of a dead mount on the wall tho...

Not really I have noted that about 10% of the active people on here always have said in the past they don't support one thing or another in gun or hunting because it doesn't affect them.

So when I suggested maybe the others should be cancelled because some of us are not interested there is no difference.

It is very easy to see even on a hunting web site how little support there is between hunters if they feel it is not something they are interested it.

If we are not going to support each other maybe it is time to begin phasing hunting out.

I have and always will support other hunters and the firearms community.

But many on here on support what affects them.

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Originally Posted by jobbershunting

Greatwhite you are being rather facetious.

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Originally Posted by jobbershunting

Dyth, I think you made his point beautifully.

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But you ignore my point about even with hunters mis-identifying species we hunt now, we still hunt those species. If mis-identification is a valid reason not to have a hunt of a huntable species, then all hunting can be stopped.

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Originally Posted by TurkeyRookie

While not something I am personally interested in, or would partake in, I commend your efforts, and as a fellow hunter would have anyone's back in helping expand our opportunities as long as it is ethical and sustainable.

Like Nick said, I also have no interest / use for a Dove hunt, but I supported it.

Good luck.

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This is exactly the way I see it.