Lack of Big Bucks

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

The bucks - even the spike don't like the camera. I'll get one or two pics and they are gone. The does and fawns hang around and I'll get 30+ pictures of them.

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This is not related to this conversation, but just to this comment of yours werner. I enjoy sharing this video and if you or anyone else hasn't seen it, you may find it interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVQU...e_gdata_player

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

There are big bucks out there that I am not seeing - but I see their tracks, and see them on the trail cams. I guess my question for those not seeing 'big bucks' - lets say 3.5 yr and older is, what percentage of the deer population are you expecting it to be? I'd guess less than 10%.

And lets not confuse numbers of pictures - I've got 2 does and 2 fawns that show up regularly on one camera, along with a monster buck, a 6 and a spike. But 99% of the pictures are of the does and fawns. The bucks - even the spike don't like the camera. I'll get one or two pics and they are gone. The does and fawns hang around and I'll get 30+ pictures of them.

Rifle season I spent most of the time dogging. About 1/3 the deer we ran were decent bucks - based on their tracks. A lot of my 'not seeing bucks' has to do with that they are far more elusive than does/fawns.

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Well, I run many camera's year round and take a pretty good inventory on my mineral sites. If I could hit 10% of upper age (3.5+) deer I'd be a very happy fella with less to complain about. I can see we are going to have different views and experiences with this since we hunt in very different habitats. I'm about as far south as it gets. Let's put it this way. In 7 years of running multiple cams, I have seen one 6.5yr old buck on camera. I am lucky if I have one 4.5 that sticks around the area to give me something to chase that season. There are no big woods here for the deer to hide, no matter how wise they are. The bush that is around gets pushed, and what runs out, gets shot.
It sounds like you are pleased with the current age structure in your whitetail herd. I am not. Which is why i'd like to see suggestions and a call to do something about it. Which seems to be what biggamer is suggesting as well.

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Originally Posted by LowbanksArcher

Well, I run many camera's year round and take a pretty good inventory on my mineral sites. If I could hit 10% of upper age (3.5+) deer I'd be a very happy fella with less to complain about. I can see we are going to have different views and experiences with this since we hunt in very different habitats. I'm about as far south as it gets. Let's put it this way. In 7 years of running multiple cams, I have seen one 6.5yr old buck on camera. And we'll say a handful of 5.5. There are no big woods here for the deer to hide, no matter how wise they are. The bush that is around gets pushed, and what runs out, gets shot.
It sounds like you are pleased with the current age structure in your whitetail herd. I am not. Which is why i'd like to see suggestions and a call to do something about it. Which seems to be what biggamer is suggesting as well.

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Pleased with it? Well I guess everyone would like to see more and bigger bucks - and I'm in there too. What you two seem to be getting at but are afraid to say out loud is that you like 4pt per side restrictions like they introduced in PA. There are a whole lot of PA deer hunters that don't like what Ault did there and blame him for ruining what was one of the top three deer hunting states in the USA. I couldn't support that - you're just setting yourself up for a huge number of bucks to die during the winter - you can't stockpile deer.

As far as not seeing the older bucks on the camera - that may well be that they don't like the camera. I haven't seen the big guy at my place on camera since Oct 3. But he's still there - see his tracks and scratches. I like my cameras - but if that's all you're using to figure out what bucks you have, I suspect you have more bigger bucks around than you realize and that they are avoid the cameras.

Little guys like the guy in your video are not that careful. Guys like this are:

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1637b5fb.jpg

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Originally Posted by LowbanksArcher

How do you feel about the question at hand, werner.reiche? The lack of big bucks? Like biggamer, I've seen enough in your posts to value your opinion. You said it yourself that you've put in a lot of time and only seen 1 buck. What do you feel needs to change?

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My luck.
I saw 4 deer last year - doe, fawn, 8pt and 6pt. I shot both bucks.
The second guy I was hunting with saw 3 deer. Doe, fawn, 5pt buck. He shot the 5ptr.
Third guy saw none.

This year we are seeing far more deer - I think the deer were there last year as well though - but we weren't seeing them.

Judging by that pic, maybe you're not hanging your cameras high enough. Maybe that's why your mature bucks don't like your cameras. When there are mature animals around my here I DO get pics of them. And many pics of them. Even the 6 1/2 year old I was after a couple years back. Got pics of that fella on multiple cameras all year long. Thanks for the scouting tips though

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Pleased with it? Well I guess everyone would like to see more and bigger bucks - and I'm in there too. What you two seem to be getting at but are afraid to say out loud is that you like 4pt per side restrictions like they introduced in PA. There are a whole lot of PA deer hunters that don't like what Ault did there and blame him for ruining what was one of the top three deer hunting states in the USA. I couldn't support that - you're just setting yourself up for a huge number of bucks to die during the winter - you can't stockpile deer.

As far as not seeing the older bucks on the camera - that may well be that they don't like the camera. I haven't seen the big guy at my place on camera since Oct 3. But he's still there - see his tracks and scratches. I like my cameras - but if that's all you're using to figure out what bucks you have, I suspect you have more bigger bucks around than you realize and that they are avoid the cameras.

Little guys like the guy in your video are not that careful. Guys like this are:

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1637b5fb.jpg

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Bucks like that guy are pretty relaxed in September.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...d522a201a5.jpg
This guys smart. Basically noctural.

Big boys are pretty patternable in Sept and even early October. But once they smell us messing around in the woods they change.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

What you two seem to be getting at but are afraid to say out loud is that you like 4pt per side restrictions like they introduced in PA. There are a whole lot of PA deer hunters that don't like what Ault did there and blame him for ruining what was one of the top three deer hunting states in the USA. I couldn't support that - you're just setting yourself up for a huge number of bucks to die during the winter - you can't stockpile deer.

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Not really afraid to say it out loud actually. I'd be in favour of several radical changes. I was just looking for your input at bettering the age structure of our herd before you suggested that i'm doing my scouting wrong.

There definitely less big deer around. The damaged of too many tags over the years has caught up to us. I'd love to see antler restrictions in Ontario.