What's wrong with our Moose herd?

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Originally Posted by Jellyheader

Oh Ya one of those plans can't include changing the FN right to harvest because that's not going to change as it is their Constitutional Right and that right has been guaranteed through countless decisions by the Supreme Court of Canada.

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Well then why not level the playing field and give everyone the same unregulated hunting rights instead?
Yes I know it is an ourageous concept but it's the only fair thing to do if the FN cannot be equally regulated. If you can't beat them join them concept.

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Originally Posted by Ahuntr300

Well then why not level the playing field and give everyone the same unregulated hunting rights instead?
Yes I know it is an ourageous concept but it's the only fair thing to do if the FN cannot be equally regulated. If you can't beat them join them concept.

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I'm sure that is going on unofficially in some areas of Ontario. So it's a raise to the bottom for the moose herd. Once it hits rock bottom then the two sides may sit down and attempt to share the resource fairly. Reducing the white hunt won't make any difference.

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Everybody waited for the snow, hunted and got them out with their snowmobiles. A lot easier then using an ATV.

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Everybody did?? Maybe those in northern Ontario where the season goes until Dec 15 but I suspect most of the moose hunters in the province hunt the first 3 weeks of the season when there is no snow, so the advent of the ATV changed that period for most of the hunters.

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Originally Posted by redd foxx

Everybody did?? Maybe those in northern Ontario where the season goes until Dec 15 but I suspect most of the moose hunters in the province hunt the first 3 weeks of the season when there is no snow, so the advent of the ATV changed that period for most of the hunters.

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Both regulated hunters and non regulated hunters gained more access, which only means more dead moose. The only way to manage the herd is to manage the herd and put politics aside.

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Originally Posted by Moe

Exactly. I agree, definitely a bigger part of the picture.

"There are over 1.4 million people in Canada who identified as Aboriginal in 2011"
"Métis represent the second largest Aboriginal group, with roughly 452,000 persons. In 2011, Métis were 32.3% of the total Aboriginal population and 1.4% of the total Canadian population. Roughly 85% of Métis lived in Ontario and the western provinces. " Quote

http://www.td.com/document/PDF/econo...iginal_nhs.pdf

Even Premier Harris was quite concerned about the implications of the Metis court decision.

"TORONTO -- An Ontario court decision upholding the hunting rights of Metis in the province may have an impact nationally, Premier Mike Harris says.
As a result, Harris said Thursday he is considering appealing the Superior Court decision that Metis leaders are hailing as a "massive victory."
"I am very concerned about implications across the country, and obviously I supported the appeal, so I disagree with the decision," Harris said.
"I am very worried it is a substantial broadening of aboriginal rights to hunt and fish outside of the conservation measures and regulations." Quote

http://www.canoe.ca/AllAboutCanoesNe...121_metis.html

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Bingo...

Who's kidding who as said many times in this thread over harvest of a limited resource is always the biggest threat to any species by the 2 legged predators.

as for the dual standards or laws.. That border on discrimination.... Eventually some white hunters will get tired of being harassed go to court with a good lawyer and get their charges thrown out as you can't discriminate and regulate one group of people's while you ignore another.

thats not racism its the same rationale minorities protested in the first place. Reverse discrimination

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Originally Posted by Monster29/66

Who's kidding who as said many times in this thread over harvest of a limited resource is always the biggest threat to any species by the 2 legged predators.

as for the dual standards or laws.. That border on discrimination.... Eventually some white hunters will get tired of being harassed go to court with a good lawyer and get their charges thrown out as you can't discriminate and regulate one group of people's while you ignore another.

thats not racism its the same rationale minorities protested in the first place. Reverse discrimination

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Fully agree now we are the ones being disciminated against in a way. Not speaking just to FN but all minority groups - sometimes they end up with better circumstances than the status quo...not sure how initial percieved unfairness turns into specialty rights that not even the status quo are granted. Everyone with Cdn citizenship should be treated equally I think thats the common feeling for most that commented. Sure blame it on the atvs and advanced equipment but without regulations for all the system will fail every time.

Anyone know any rough statistics on the ratio of regulated to non regulated hunters? (im curious)

atv's , planes, better boats, game cameras, electronic calls, more logging roads ....

all the above has indeed increased hunter success ratios but the tag allocations should be in line with all those factors.

Higher success ratio fewer tags. The math should balance out.

sure we all have better equipment and more access BUT moose management was controlled by the issuing of TAGS based on moose #'s - hunter success ratios - previous winter kill - poaching - FN harvest etc.

We all agree that moose numbers are plummeting and the MNR has been steering this ship on to the rocks for years.

What really puzzles me is the 5 or 6 units where moose are being eradicated to enhance the caribou comeback. Wolves and bears ARE NOT being addressed.

The MNR decisions that have been made in the past and today will be a future case study in university on mismanagement.

I know I'm hard on the MNR. This resource is not being run by the sportsmen ( the users) .. It is being run by backbench MNR personnel. Sportsmen, OFAH, (users) have no say on any decisions made. We can not correct the problem because the baton (torch) will never be passed to us! YET we're the losers!

great system we have here EH!

I suspect that one of the reasons that some F-N harvesters are killing so many moose may be to commercialize in the meat. I wonder who they sell to? I suspect hey are selling to non-F-N people,u making them/us part of the problem. If there was not a market....perhaps those that commercialize would not shoot so many.

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Originally Posted by redd foxx

I suspect that one of the reasons that some F-N harvesters are killing so many moose may be to commercialize in the meat. I wonder who they sell to? I suspect hey are selling to non-F-N people,u making them/us part of the problem. If there was not a market....perhaps those that commercialize would not shoot so many.

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I really don't think much, if any moose meat is being sold by FNs to non FNs. We all know what the problem is.