Should the coronavirus vaccine be mandatory

Saw a few people made a comment on this topic on another thread...be interesting to see what the general consensus is.

Should the vaccine be Mandatory or Voluntary ?

Would you refuse to get the vaccine completely or wait for a period before getting it again.

A recent study:

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Only 39 % cent of respondents said getting a vaccine should be mandatory, a decline of 18 % from a similar poll conducted in July and more than 20 % lower than in May.

54% of respondents instead said a vaccine should be voluntary, an 11% increase from July and 15 % since May. 6% of respondents said they did not know.

The poll does not provide an explanation for the decline in support for mandatory vaccinations, but a Statistics Canada survey in August found some Canadians are worried about the safety and possible side effects of a COVID-19 vaccine.

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As for the Legal aspect:

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Can governments require a person be vaccinated, and impose sanctions if they don’t, or even forcibly vaccinate a person?

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The short answer is that a government may be able to place certain limitations on those who refuse to receive a vaccination, but may not be able to lawfully force vaccination on someone against their will.
All laws and government decisions must respect the constitutional rights of all Canadians, as protected by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. When governments, through their laws or decisions, violate the rights and freedoms of citizens, citizens can go to court and seek redress. Courts have the power to nullify a law, and to overrule a government decision. However, section 1 of the Charter gives a government a chance to justify before a court a violation of a Charter right. If a government is able to convince a court that its law or decision is a justified violation of a person’s constitutional rights and freedoms, the court will not nullify the law or overrule the government decision.
What is a justifiable violation of a constitutional right depends on the circumstances of each situation. The greater the importance of a government purpose, the more a court may be willing to agree with the government that the violations of a Charter freedom is necessary and justified to address the problem. For example, a perceived or declared public health threat could be used by a government to justify serious violations of individual liberty regarding vaccination.
Mandatory vaccination and forced vaccination are not the same thing. Mandatory vaccination is a legal requirement to vaccinate, and to provide proof of vaccination, along with consequences for refusing. If an individual, or her or his children do not receive the required vaccine(s), they will be denied receipt of a government benefit they are otherwise entitled to, such as free public education. Mandatory vaccination could also be enforced by way of a fine.
In contrast, forced vaccination would mean individuals being physically detained and forcibly vaccinated against their will by law enforcement and public health officials.

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Recent Polls ..will you get the vaccine.

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A new poll suggests the proportion of Canadians planning to get vaccinated for COVID-19 is on the rise after encouraging initial results from Pfizer’s vaccine trial.

69% of respondents said they plan to get inoculated against the novel coronavirus once Health Canada approves a vaccine that is broadly available and free, according to a survey by Leger and the Association for Canadian Studies.

Similar polling, carried out for Global News between October 23-26 by Ipsos, found that just 54 % of the Canadian public is willing to take a vaccine as soon as they can. Of that figure, only 22 % feel strongly about taking a vaccine right away.

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Well, as the Government I do not have to force the public to be vaccinated or do I even have to make it Mandatory.

*****BUT***** any and all persons receiving the vaccine will receive a card providing proof of vaccination. The CARD will allow the bear to travel and work without restrictions.

Person without proof of vaccination will be subject to restrictions and not allowed to be in public..

So here is the question.."You going to roll up your sleeve or sit at home and go bankrupt?"

The first opportunity I have to receive the covid-19 vaccine I'll be in line with my sleeve rolled up.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Well, as the Government I do not have to force the public to be vaccinated or do I even have to make it Mandatory.

*****BUT***** any and all persons receiving the vaccine will receive a card providing proof of vaccination. The CARD will allow the bear to travel and work without restrictions.

Person without proof of vaccination will be subject to restrictions and not allowed to be in public..

So here is the question.."You going to roll up your sleeve or sit at home and go bankrupt?"

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X2


They will likely "ban" non vaccinated from certain activities...........which will be total nonsense,IF they vaccinate great majority of the populace.
Why-because if lets say 80 % of the people WILL BE vaccinated,the NON vaccinated should pose THREAT only to the NON vaccinated-right?(that is why people will get the vaccine,so they would become immune to it)-or NOT?
So,the 20 % lets say not vaccinated will pose a potential threat ony to the like minded .....the non vaccinated.

Hence-the occurence will be low,and the risk will be low from those non vaccinated ,that they could actually create "big issues".


Now-before anyone would say-Yep,but the Government will NOT WANT to spend resources(hospitals,beds etc)on the NON vaccinated,the FAIR question will be-why the ones NOT willling to take the non prooven vaccine will be treated differently,then ALL OTHER "self imposed"sick can be using up resources(not talking negative about any of them having illnesses -but drug addicts, alcoholics come to my mind ).


My personal experience with vaccines-my uncle passed away from a mandatory vaccine against Variola Vera ,leaving 5 kids behind.Now Covid is a cats meow compared to variola vera.At least what we can see by now.
I also get tremendously ill 10 years ago from a simple flu shot,worst then from a real flu,AND before the shot I had a flu evey year or two,after the shot..........i got flu every year 2 x ,for at least 5 years in a row........

Likely my uncle case(may rest in peace) and my own case shows ,that there is no ONE size fits all.hence should be treated as such.

Alas-i do not expect much common sense when the vaccine comes out.

Anyone do as You please though.....

That's why they called in the military to distribute them lol. Jk

A rushed product a new product nope I don't think it should be mandatory for everyone. As the flu shot is not mandatory also a virus that shows it could be possible that up to 40 percent show no symptoms no I do not think it should be made mandatory.

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GBK

I don't think even close to 80 percent will get the shot.

This 2 shot process they say has failed in the past everyone shows up for the first shot and ignores or forgets about the second one. A study showed that up to 70 percent of the people who received a double shot didn't come back for the second. This 2 shot system is not new however this vaccine is.






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By the time they give this shot out to the first line . To when we will be receiving more I think the first round of people will be almost time again for another dose .

Remember we are only going to see enough vaccine to do ruffly 2 million out of 14 million Ontario residents. It's under 20 percent and it take 2 shot over the course of a month to be effective. That means if we start these 2 stage in February they won't be technically safe until March for the first round.



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It would be politically and legally untenable for the government to make the vaccine mandatory. Proof of vaccination may however be required in some situations.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

It would be politically and legally untenable for the government to make the vaccine mandatory. Proof of vaccination may however be required in some situations.

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Ohhh maybe a Yellow Star on our jackets....yea that will go over well HaHa...

Covid Cops in Jack Boots standing outside the restaurant demanding you " show us zee papers" HaHa....

DON’T TAKE IT - IT’S A MIND CONTROL DRUG

lol....

I'll take my chances with a virus that's been around for close to a year now rather than get in line for an experimental shot.

Odds are they'll know how to treat me if I get really sick with COVID... not so much if I start growing a third arm.

The real question is will these vaccines still work a year from now? Viruses mutate.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Well, as the Government I do not have to force the public to be vaccinated or do I even have to make it Mandatory.

*****BUT***** any and all persons receiving the vaccine will receive a card providing proof of vaccination. The CARD will allow the bear to travel and work without restrictions.

Person without proof of vaccination will be subject to restrictions and not allowed to be in public..

So here is the question.."You going to roll up your sleeve or sit at home and go bankrupt?"

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I'm sure there will be a lot of new Canadians that will refuse under religious beliefs. Should get interesting when vaccination times rolls out, and what its going to mean for those that refuse.

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Originally Posted by GW11

I'll take my chances with a virus that's been around for close to a year now rather than get in line for an experimental shot.

Odds are they'll know how to treat me if I get really sick with COVID... not so much if I start growing a third arm.

The real question is will these vaccines still work a year from now? Viruses mutate.

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You will be taken to a covid-19 concentration camp for you not doing as your told...lol

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

You will be taken to a covid-19 concentration camp for you not doing as your told...lol

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Are they not going to take the sick there?
Another week and we will see just how these locked down areas are fairing .

If the numbers for Toronto and peel don't start going down in the next 8 or 9 days it will show partial lockdowns don't work.

Science right evidence right . A partial lockdown will not contain the virus during a thriving time. It took months for the first one at the end of flu season .

If these lock down prove to fail where will the sick go ? The hospital's will be to full

Ps they said minimum of 28 days [emoji6] people forget about that part.

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Originally Posted by fishfood

Are they not going to take the sick there?

Ps they said minimum of 28 days [emoji6] people forget about that part.

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Thats the plan until vaccination rolls out. Then they will be sending all anti-vaxxers to a covid camp. The only way of getting out will be vaccination...lol

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

Thats the plan until vaccination rolls out. Then they will be sending all anti-vaxxers to a covid camp. The only way of getting out will be vaccination...lol

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Hence why the military will be handing them out [emoji15]



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Even health care professionals are skeptical. I know I wouldn't be too quick to believe anything coming from big pharma.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...s-coronavirus/

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

You will be taken to a covid-19 concentration camp for you not doing as your told...lol

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Is there three square meals a day? Do I get health care? Can I take a university course? Count me in address to follow.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Is there three square meals a day? Do I get health care? Can I take a university course? Count me in address to follow.

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Gilroy, you are starting to sound more conservative every day..:joker:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Is there three square meals a day? Do I get health care? Can I take a university course? Count me in address to follow.

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Only if you have FN status.

It's interested that the normal influenza vaccination that is available free every year, has such a poor participation rate of only 40%) while the desired goal is 80% to achieve a herd immunity. And like Covid, it kills a whack of Canadians.

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This is what the Public Health Agency of Canada said in a recent press release: "Every year, between 2,000 and 8,000 Canadians die of the flu and its complications."

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The goal:

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Measuring vaccination coverage is necessary to track Canada's progress towards achieving its vaccination coverage goals by 2025, as well as to identify under-vaccinated populations. The national vaccination coverage goals for adults include:
Achieving increased vaccination coverage (one dose per season) for the seasonal influenza vaccine as follows:
80% vaccination coverage among adults 65 years of age and older
80% vaccination coverage among adults 18-64 years of age with chronic medical conditions (CMC)

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In 2019 the rate of people who get the vaccine is:

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Overall, influenza vaccination coverage in the 2018-2019 season (42%) was significantly higher than the 2017-2018 season (38%) and the 2016-2017 season (36%).
Among high-risk groups, coverage for seniors 65 years of age and older (70%) and adults aged 18-64 years with a chronic medical condition (CMC) (43%) remained below the national coverage goals of 80%.

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I wonder if in a few years the Covid vaccine numbers will be higher or lower than the annual Influence vaccine rate we see today...approx 40% .

To digress slightly I watched 60 minutes last week and the next day Dr Fauci confirmed that the after affects from this virus can be worse than the initial virus.On the 60 minutes segment a 40 year old personal trainer unable to walk or lift groceries,a marathon runner also having difficulty walking,a Doctor suffering fatigue and migraine headaches.

So they do not know exactly what is going on except to think the bodies immune system mounts such a massive defence against Covid that it actually brings on these undesired after effects.

We are talking months to years of medical intervention,which is going to take its toll on the medical systems.


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...m-effects.html


Support groups on sites such as Facebook host thousands of members, who sometimes call themselves “long-haulers”. They struggle to get out of bed, or to work for more than a few minutes or hours at a time. One study7 of 143 people with COVID-19 discharged from a hospital in Rome found that 53% had reported fatigue and 43% had shortness of breath an average of 2 months after their symptoms started. A study of patients in China showed that 25% had abnormal lung function after 3 months, and that 16% were still fatigued8.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

To digress slightly I watched 60 minutes last week and the next day Dr Fauci confirmed that the after affects from this virus can be worse than the initial virus.On the 60 minutes segment a 40 year old personal trainer unable to walk or lift groceries,a marathon runner also having difficulty walking,a Doctor suffering fatigue and migraine headaches.

So they do not know exactly what is going on except to think the bodies immune system mounts such a massive defence against Covid that it actually brings on these undesired after effects.

We are talking months to years of medical intervention,which is going to take its toll on the medical systems.


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...m-effects.html

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The body rejecting the nano particles and tracking device. It would make anyone sick....lol

https://news.cision.com/dakota-digit...-llc-,c9639382

I got the flu vaccine a few weeks ago as I have been doing for many years now. The same with my family members. Since I work in hospitals I constantly come in contact with sick people. So far it seems to help. In regards to the Covid vaccine I will be last in line.
The way this pandemic has been handled worldwide leaves me with enough unanswered questions to adopt a wait and see attitude for this new fangled vaccine they are rushing to roll out. Too many red flags (pun intended) at this time.

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Originally Posted by impact

Too many red flags (pun intended) at this time.

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I love the segue ...speaking of Red Flags

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With its hyperbolic announcements and an ambitious — some would say unattainable — timetable, the Putin government has attempted to demonstrate the development of Sputnik V has made Russia a vaccine superpower..

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https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia...rown-1.5819331

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Originally Posted by impact

I got the flu vaccine a few weeks ago as I have been doing for many years now. The same with my family members. Since I work in hospitals I constantly come in contact with sick people. So far it seems to help. In regards to the Covid vaccine I will be last in line.
The way this pandemic has been handled worldwide leaves me with enough unanswered questions to adopt a wait and see attitude for this new fangled vaccine they are rushing to roll out. Too many red flags (pun intended) at this time.

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I got mine yesterday. I asked the Doc if it would be a problem if I got the Coronavirus vaccine when it came out after getting the flu shot,too. He gave me a funny look and said "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it." That told me that they have no clue where this thing will go. I think I'll just wait and see. Fools rush in...................

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Originally Posted by impact

The body rejecting the nano particles and tracking device. It would make anyone sick....lol

https://news.cision.com/dakota-digit...-llc-,c9639382

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Sorry but those people have not had any vaccine yet. It is the covid virus itself that is causing those long term affects. Does covid itself contain a tracking chip? That is tin foil hat stuff right there. I hope your lol indicates your opinion.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

To digress slightly I watched 60 minutes last week and the next day Dr Fauci confirmed that the after affects from this virus can be worse than the initial virus.On the 60 minutes segment a 40 year old personal trainer unable to walk or lift groceries,a marathon runner also having difficulty walking,a Doctor suffering fatigue and migraine headaches.

So they do not know exactly what is going on except to think the bodies immune system mounts such a massive defence against Covid that it actually brings on these undesired after effects.

We are talking months to years of medical intervention,which is going to take its toll on the medical systems.


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...m-effects.html


Support groups on sites such as Facebook host thousands of members, who sometimes call themselves “long-haulers”. They struggle to get out of bed, or to work for more than a few minutes or hours at a time. One study7 of 143 people with COVID-19 discharged from a hospital in Rome found that 53% had reported fatigue and 43% had shortness of breath an average of 2 months after their symptoms started. A study of patients in China showed that 25% had abnormal lung function after 3 months, and that 16% were still fatigued8.

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If its what I had in December I am a long hauler. Got sick in December finally felt better in March. I still did what I had to do but I was definitely complaining about how I was never felt good and felt like I was never getting better. Some

I think i said that in the first covid thread posted in the beginning.

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Watch "190% effective COVID vaccine | 22 Minutes" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/iy2Cx30Fgfk

At least its finally here!

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Originally Posted by fishfood

If its what I had in December I am a long hauler. Got sick in December finally felt better in March. I still did what I had to do but I was definitely complaining about how I was never felt good and felt like I was never getting better. Some

I think i said that in the first covid thread posted in the beginning.

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FF. you must have been one of the first in the world to get it.. Covid 19 was identified and isolated to a particular virus, on January 7th. In China. Must have bypassed a billion Chinese to get to you. lol.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

FF. you must have been one of the first in the world to get it.. Covid 19 was identified and isolated to a particular virus, on January 7th. In China. Must have bypassed a billion Chinese to get to you. lol.

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Do some more digging, looks like the first cases in China were well before January.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

FF. you must have been one of the first in the world to get it.. Covid 19 was identified and isolated to a particular virus, on January 7th. In China. Must have bypassed a billion Chinese to get to you. lol.

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Actually case's can be found from last September of 2019 . And proven in the USA in October . My friend was at many big conferences all last fall in the USA Niagara Toronto all over . Also we know a few who traveled to the USA and came back with the worst flu they have had in December.

There was another forum member was sick in December why did he have antibodies ? Maybe he will be a asymptomatic person lol.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

FF. you must have been one of the first in the world to get it.. Covid 19 was identified and isolated to a particular virus, on January 7th. In China. Must have bypassed a billion Chinese to get to you. lol.

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Maybe event 201 leaked it out . Remember they knew this virus last year they knew what it would do .

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Yup bypassed 7 billion people, to end up in...wait for it..... wait for it.....Port Bolster. lol..... You do realize it is a communicable disease, it must be passed onto you. It doesn't just 'materialize'.

Food for thought. Worth the watch
https://youtu.be/ZS5NLMw4xC0

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Yup bypassed 7 billion people, to end up in...wait for it..... wait for it.....Port Bolster. lol..... You do realize it is a communicable disease, it must be passed onto you. It just does not just 'materialize'.

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Actually my fishing partner and family my brother his family friends , co-workers plenty of people were sick and many of them were told it was . Pneumonia or bronchitis . I had severe bronchitis because I smoked my friend didn't smoke he had severe pneumonia. I can honestly say I know many that was in the hospital for the same thing . At least a dozen people I can say went to the hospital in December and January

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

Food for thought. Worth the watch

https://youtu.be/GfRCDMzQYgQ

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It's gone lol. [emoji1787]

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Lots of people went to the hospital in December and January , fortunately not for Covid.

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Originally Posted by fishfood

It's gone lol. [emoji1787]

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No kidding they are silencing the truth fast. Tried twice already taken down...trying again
https://youtu.be/IC3YZDp9V9o

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

No kidding they are silencing the truth fast. Tried twice already taken down...trying again
https://youtu.be/IC3YZDp9V9o

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I was thinking not long ago it could be an American bug , also can't rule out Canada either . [emoji106]

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Lots of people went to the hospital in December and January , fortunately not for Covid.

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Why who says a doctor that asked me 3 questions [emoji1787] .


So your not feeling well question 1, my reply no I don't .

Question 2 do you smoke cigarettes, my reply yes.


Question 3 do you smoke weed, my reply yes.


You have severe bronchitis [emoji40] .

Whtf. What really and I'm expected to trust him [emoji23] I could of told you that. I could of self diagnosed my self for crying out loud lol.

First case in Wuhan they say they date back to Nov 17th 2019 a whole month before I was in the hospital . And well my friend the conference's he was at I bet held many Asians big business for Asians and cannabis.
Best thing I had was a puffer it really helped .
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Why go to a Dr. at all, if your not going to trust their diagnosis? Sounds like you wasted your, and their time.

Fish if it wasn't for this coming out of me for days I would not have gone to the hospital .
First trip in ten years . I have had teeth ripped out without freezing I have stitches without freezing. We do our stitches at home now unless in needs more than 4 and the bleeding stops it can be done at home. . I slept for almost 2 days lol

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d4730bf690.jpg

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Why go to a Dr. at all, if your not going to trust their diagnosis? Sounds like you wasted your, and their time.

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Do you think that's a proper diagnosis . he did listen to my back and chest and said there was lots of fluids.

How is that a proper diagnosis he did nothing but ask 3 questions how is that a proper diagnosis?
Because he has a doctor license he has a degree . ?

How do I prove it bronchitis ? How do prove it wasn't ? Who is to say it wasn't covid just because it wasn't yet know to the public or in the days leading up to it.

Do you not remember the Spanish flu was discovered in Spain therefore became the Spanish flu turn out later it did not originally come from Spain they only found it first.


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So you have to go , but you don't believe his diagnosis. Did you want him to lie to you, and make it more serious? Would that have made you feel better? I would think an accredited Dr. would be near the top of most trustworthy profession.

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

No kidding they are silencing the truth fast. Tried twice already taken down...trying again
https://youtu.be/IC3YZDp9V9o

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Here's the full video https://freedomplatform.tv/plandemic...orld-premiere/

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

So you have to go , but you don't believe his diagnosis. Did you want him to lie to you, and make it more serious? Would that have made you feel better? I would think an accredited Dr. would be near the top of most trustworthy profession.

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Did I believe him then who am I to say otherwise but all the symptoms including the long term effects indicate it could of been possible that it was also covid 19. Doctors are doctors some are good others are not . Many doctors mis diagnose patients.

Looking back the more I look back all symptoms and asymptomatic people and the large number of people who I had contact with . My wife gets sick all the time did she have what I got no but all the bugs we both would be down she has O blood many with O blood show little symptoms. . I don't get hit very often with them this was the worst most times it's a few days of feeling off while the rest is completely out of it. .

I can't rule it out covid nor can I say I had severe bronchitis because a license doctor ask me 3 questions lol.

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

Do some more digging, looks like the first cases in China were well before January.

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I was in Vancouver in early Feb 2020 to watch my daughter play in the nationals (U18 Rugby 7's). We stuck around in Vancouver for a couple of days after her tournament and watched the HSBC Men's World Rugby 7's Tournament and I remember joking with my wife why are all these people wearing masks and we are not? What do they know that we don't?

In any case, now I get it. That was my last party before the lockdown and what a party it was. Hopefully we will be back in Vancouver for 2021!!

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Originally Posted by 410001661

I was in Vancouver in early Feb 2020 to watch my daughter play in the nationals (U18 Rugby 7's). We stuck around in Vancouver for a couple of days after her tournament and watched the HSBC Men's World Rugby 7's Tournament and I remember joking with my wife why are all these people wearing masks and we are not? What do they know that we don't?

In any case, now I get it. That was my last party before the lockdown and what a party it was. Hopefully we will be back in Vancouver for 2021!!

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The wife and her daughter went to Vegas in Febuary. They were the only ones wearing masks on the flight, which drew a lot of attention...lol

Well there is a push to make the vaccine mandatory for anyone traveling.

Good thing I don't travel [emoji6] .

Good thing Canada is big enough to roam around.



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Originally Posted by fishfood

Well there is a push to make the vaccine mandatory for anyone traveling.

Good thing I don't travel [emoji6] .

Good thing Canada is big enough to roam around.

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Works for me. International travel is an important part of my business although we've made do with video calls in the interim. I'll take the shot to get back to all-expense paid, business-class travel to interesting locations. :)

And more

Looks like I maybe limited cuz I still ain't going to take it.

It's amazing they are only taking a vaccine rout.

https://torontosun.com/news/provinci...david-williams

I hope many more refuse to take it .


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I also will take it, if just to enable me to travel the world. Travel and vacations abroad, will be more enjoyable, with with less activity at airports and resorts.... If you don't get a covid vaccination, It's a case of, 'cut off your nose to spite your face".

I wonder how often you will have to be tested and maybe even reinoculated though... annual flu and covid shots?


More people are getting COVID-19 twice, suggesting immunity wanes quickly in some
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...s-quickly-some
Reinfections hint that immunity against COVID-19 may be fragile and wane relatively quickly, with implications not just for the risks facing recovered patients, but also for how long future vaccines might protect people. “The question everybody wants to answer is: Is that second one going to be less severe most of the time or not?” says Derek Cummings, who studies infectious disease dynamics at the University of Florida. “And what do reinfections teach us about SARS-CoV-2 immunity in general?
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Reinfections with the four coronaviruses that cause the common cold occur after an average of 12 months, a team led by virologist Lia van der Hoek at Amsterdam University Medical Center recently showed. Van der Hoek thinks COVID-19 may follow that pattern: “I think we’d better prepare for a wave of reinfections over the coming months.” That’s “bad news for those who still believe in herd immunity through natural infections,” she adds, and a worrisome sign for vaccines.
”

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

I also will take it, if just to enable me to travel the world. Travel and vacations abroad, will be more enjoyable, with with less activity at airports and resorts.... If you don't get a covid vaccination, It's a case of, 'cut off your nose to spite your face".

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Not when the numbers show the Influenza is the same as covid 19 in the general public.

Less then 700 in Ontario are in hospital as of now many , accually most will live . We have 14 million people .

We can see 700 accidents a day when the slow Flies .


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FF. that will no bearing on the travel restrictions that will be in place , if you don't have the covid shot. It is a small price to pay ,for the freedom to travel outside the country..

Should abortions be mandatory?

There is no legal hurdle from one to the other.
No - nothing concerning my health or what I put into my body should be "mandatory".
Especially considering that those pushing the vaccines are also those pushing for massive human depopulation.

OO.. ??.Should a fertilized zygote , mean giving birth is mandatory? No, it should not..... A vaccine will not be mandatory , but your travel outside Canada will be restricted without it. Ultimately to take it or not, will be up to you, but there will be repercussions, (travel, particular jobs), for your decision.

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Originally Posted by old outdoorsman

No - nothing concerning my health or what I put into my body should be "mandatory".
Especially considering that those pushing the vaccines are also those pushing for massive human depopulation.

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How true and the great reset [emoji23]



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Should a fertilized zygote , mean birth is mandatory? No..... A vaccine will not be mandatory , but your travel outside Canada will be restricted without it.

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Just another word for mandatory when they controll your every move without a vaccine.

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Look up the definition of ' mandatory'. Restrictions on your travel without it, does not make it mandatory. In LTC care they strongly encourage staff to get the flu shot every year. They even brought the heath department into the home on numerous occasions before flu season to administer it to staff, we usually had around 90% compliance. Not mandatory, but if the home had an outbreak of the flu, you could not work at that home until the outbreak was over, unless you had your flu shot.

I am going to wait for the more traditional vaccine to be available before I roll up my sleeve. I have been getting the flu shot for years without these side effects. Other companies are working at rolling one out. Looks like the body does not like nano particles injected into it. The idea behind getting a vaccine is to avoid getting sick. No telling what the long term outcome will be.

It is sad how generations forget past mistakes. Here is one example.....thalidomide.
https://www.dana-farber.org/newsroom...birth-defects/


"Other transient side effects would likely affect even more people. The independent board that conducted the interim analysis of Moderna's huge trial found that severe side effects included fatigue in 9.7% of participants, muscle pain in 8.9%, joint pain in 5.2%, and headache in 4.5%."

"Both vaccines consist of a snippet of genetic code directing production of the coronavirus' spike protein, delivered in a tiny fat bubble called a lipid nanoparticle. Some researchers suspect the immune system's response to that delivery vehicle is causing the short-term side effects."

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/370/6520/1022

I can work with ' short term side effects', rather than long term death.

I clearly recall the devastating impact thalidimide had with deformed babies back when I was a teen. It was in the news every day, just as covid is now. I'm going to eventually get this vaccine but will have to live with the concern there may be unknown effects of it in the years to come.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sawbill

I clearly recall the devastating impact thalidimide had with deformed babies back when I was a teen. It was in the news every day, just as covid is now. I'm going to eventually get this vaccine but will have to live with the concern there may be unknown effects of it in the years to come.

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Same with Polio..I have two friends who were affected by that virus...there are in their 70's now and the damage is still with them. Pic below of a ward filled with Iron lungs.

People who refuse vaccines must remember that it's what needs to be done, as a society, to prevent spreading of the diseases. That's why School Boards etc are allowed to make vaccine shots mandatory for kids going to school.

https://i.imgur.com/GTVCxjMm.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

I can work with ' short term side effects', rather than long term death.

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It's not 100 percent effective
Death is around every corner it's a part of every day life. Millions of other ways for death to come knocking on the door.

Even with a vaccine there will still be death's.

They didn't use a vaccine for the Spanish flu. Why is it a must for covid?



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FF. ???? Yup there was a lot of vaccines to take at the turn of the century....not.... MP . I had a good friend growing up who had braces on his legs till he was 15 years old,(Forrest Gump), because of Polio. And I'm not that old...or am I?

Let's be realistic....if you're a Pharmaceutical Company CEO would you want a your company to develop a one time Vaccine for a corona-virus and loose all profits that could be made if you the public has to take one every year. ?

remember : almost all CEOs are sociopaths (proven)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

FF. ???? Yup there was a lot of vaccines to take at the turn of the century....not.... MP . I had a good friend growing up who had braces on his legs till he was 15 years old, because of Polio. And I'm not that old...or am I?

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Over a quarter million deaths annually in Canada . https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ths-in-canada/



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So they develop a vaccine, that can help prevent the spread of a deadly virus, but you won't take it because people die every year anyway? Guess you should have not had all the inoculations you did as a kid, because people die every year . See how silly that sounds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

FF. that will no bearing on the travel restrictions that will be in place , if you don't have the covid shot. It is a small price to pay ,for the freedom to travel outside the country..

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With the added benefit of travelling with no anti-vaxx/anti-mask types. As a frequent traveller I'd appreciate fewer stupid people at the airport.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

So they develop a vaccine, that can help prevent the spread of a deadly virus, but you won't take it because people die every year anyway? Guess you should have not had all the inoculations you did as a kid, because people die every year . See how silly that sounds.

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Not when more will die from suicide and drug over doses than covid 19. Not when our government doesn't tell us the truth .
Lock down the economy when the deaths are not coming from the public . Fear monger the public sorry a vaccine isn't the be all or end all .

If the vaccine proves to be effective
After a few years then maybe. But to push it out the door and say you will be limited to what you do if you don't take it?

I know of a half dozen deaths in the past few months not one was from covid 19.

If you feel your at risk then by all means if your doctor says you at risk then by all means take it . If you want to.

I will do what I have done all year now. I am doing my part I will continue to do what I have to do to prevent the spread of covid 19. It doesn't mean l need to take a new vaccine that hasn't seen the side effects on to do that.


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Unless the government is going to grant big pharma immunity against future law suits I don't think there's much to worry about.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

So they develop a vaccine, that can help prevent the spread of a deadly virus, but you won't take it because people die every year anyway? Guess you should have not had all the inoculations you did as a kid, because people die every year . See how silly that sounds.

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Here take a read even with a vaccine it doesn't mean zero covid . I was going the mention this but I left it lol. Even if we vaccine everyone it won't mean zero covid 19, hospitals will still be full from people who got the vaccine and have covid.

You do your part I will do mine [emoji6]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN28E2HH

Can't be a hater over a vaccine when it's not a cure all. You do your part get a vaccine ,I will do my part and try to prevent the spread of covid 19 the best I can. [emoji12][emoji3577]

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Strange how Covid vaccines have been discovered, tested and being manufactured in under 9 months, and the willingness of people to jump at them regardless to the amount of human testing. How will Health Canada approve such vaccines?

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

Strange how Covid vaccines have been discovered, tested and being manufactured in under 9 months, and the willingness of people to jump at them regardless to the amount of human testing. How will Health Canada approve such vaccines?

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See how fast things happen when the entire worlds scientists work on one problem. To bad that they can’t do that to solve many more problems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

See how fast things happen when the entire worlds scientists work on one problem. To bad that they can’t do that to solve many more problems.

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What I see is how fast the willingness to disregard safety measures and testing procedures prior to human approval.
Of course if you believe masks will stop the spread, then you'll believe what ever the government and media tells you about a vaccine..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

What I see is how fast the willingness to disregard safety measures and testing procedures prior to human approval.
Of course if you believe masks will stop the spread, then you'll believe what ever the government and media tells you about a vaccine..

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Germany just completed a study saying masks were effective but you probably will not believe even German Scientists.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Germany just completed a study saying masks were effective but you probably will not believe even German Scientists.

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Exactly my point of post#78...lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

Strange how Covid vaccines have been discovered, tested and being manufactured in under 9 months, and the willingness of people to jump at them regardless to the amount of human testing. How will Health Canada approve such vaccines?

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or (Tin Hat on) the Chinese provided the WHO or WEF with the formula for the vaccine for their virus in exchange for ????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

FF. that will no bearing on the travel restrictions that will be in place , if you don't have the covid shot. It is a small price to pay ,for the freedom to travel outside the country..

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

With the added benefit of travelling with no anti-vaxx/anti-mask types. As a frequent traveller I'd appreciate fewer stupid people at the airport.

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International travel is what landed the virus here to begin with, but you fellas keep doing your part! While you're at it, shout down a few people who might be skeptical of masks and experimental vaccines. You never know, those self-thinking miscreants and losers might just be responsible for keeping YOU from what YOU want to do a little longer.

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I follow the health care professionals advise and recommendations and will continue to do so. Just wish everyone else did. But alas, it is not to be. You can bi--h and complain all you want, but it will not change the direction taken by our elected officials. It will just cause undo stress to yourself. I guess some feel better, the more they complain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

I follow the health care professionals advise and recommendations and will continue to do so. Just wish everyone else did. But alas, it is not to be. You can bi--h and complain all you want, but it will not change the direction taken by our elected officials. It will just cause undo stress to yourself. I guess some feel better, the more they complain.

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You sir aught to feel pretty good then as all you do is complain. Cheers!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tigboy 304

You sir aught to feel pretty good then as all you do is complain. Cheers!!!

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That's better than you trolling since you appeared on this forum. Need proof read your previous posts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

That's better than you trolling since you appeared on this forum. Need proof read your previous posts.

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It's OK gilly you be all right just keep on the kool-aid. Cheers!!!

This is not a traditional vaccine, that is why it was able to be produced so quickly, it is experimental. I believe there are some traditional vaccines in the works.

With the realitvely low mortality of this virus and the prospect of limiting peoples movements/activities if they are unvaccinated tells me this is more about control than saving lives. They are hoping to make the vaccine at morality/virtue signalling issue like they have masks. Making people some sort of social pariah if they don't buy into the "science" behind it all. The large majority of the reasoning behind prevention (masks, lockdowns) etc of this virus has been based on extremely poor science. It's more based on knee jerk reactions and copying the neighbouring countries than anything related to real science.

Offical link to the UK government document on the vaccine.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...fessionals.pdf

I found some of the side effects interesting. Headache and joint/muscle pain in 1 in 10 recipients. I don't ever remember getting a headache from vaccinations in the past.

Also the fact that animal reproductive toxicity tests have not been completed and it is unknown whether the vaccine has any impact on fertility.

They haven't tested it for reproductive toxicity or fertility issues but they want everyone on the planet to take it. Doesn't sound like a really great idea to me.

Jakezilla, what's even worse is Health Canada is going to give it instant approval if they plan on roll-out in the next couple months.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jakezilla

This is not a traditional vaccine, that is why it was able to be produced so quickly, it is experimental. I believe there are some traditional vaccines in the works.

With the realitvely low mortality of this virus and the prospect of limiting peoples movements/activities if they are unvaccinated tells me this is more about control than saving lives. They are hoping to make the vaccine at morality/virtue signalling issue like they have masks. Making people some sort of social pariah if they don't buy into the "science" behind it all. The large majority of the reasoning behind prevention (masks, lockdowns) etc of this virus has been based on extremely poor science. It's more based on knee jerk reactions and copying the neighbouring countries than anything related to real science.

Offical link to the UK government document on the vaccine.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...fessionals.pdf

I found some of the side effects interesting. Headache and joint/muscle pain in 1 in 10 recipients. I don't ever remember getting a headache from vaccinations in the past.

Also the fact that animal reproductive toxicity tests have not been completed and it is unknown whether the vaccine has any impact on fertility.

They haven't tested it for reproductive toxicity or fertility issues but they want everyone on the planet to take it. Doesn't sound like a really great idea to me.

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Huge concern for the frontline workers especially young nurses. My daughter who is an RN will be expected to immediately take this vaccine or face unemployment. She has yet to start a family of her own. Huge red flag on this vaccine they are rushing out to everyone without proper testing protocols and due diligence.

It might be the best happenstance, that we as Canadians, may be one the last to get it. Since it will be a year before they get through the mass inoculations, it'll be a long time before they can make it mandatory.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

It might be the best happenstance, that we as Canadians, may be one the last to get it. Since it will be a year before they get through the mass inoculations, it'll be a long time before they can make it mandatory.

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But the long term side effects won't show for years. . We can see the short term effects but the long term will take years.

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No voice

The majority of Canadians say it should be up to the prime minister to make the call.

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/mobile/m...rvey-1.5218679

No voice the majority of Canadians will let others decide their fait there voice , choice the right to say no. . It's your choice not the choice of our silly pm that has a minority power.

Sad really .

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They probably did the study in long term care homes .

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Remember....CTV is a propaganda machine for the Liberals. Surveys can be skewed any way you want. Many books written on the subject of lying with statistics.
Why would Facebook block any negative comments on the vaccine? Would it not serve the population best if people related their experiences on the initial early rollout? Yes there will be an app to report problems to the authorities who again will filter the data.

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Originally Posted by fishfood

But the long term side effects won't show for years. . We can see the short term effects but the long term will take years.

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The long rage effects; without it, you will eventually get the virus and taking a chance on how sick it will make you...crap shot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by impact

Yes there will be an app to report problems to the authorities who again will filter the data.

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In this day and age, they can't control social media, any major issues will be known quickly. Just have to watch the BBC and Al Jazeera, they are fairly neutral politically.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

The long rage effects; without it, you will eventually get the virus and taking a chance on how sick it will make you...crap shot.

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But that would be my choice maybe one day I will take a sick day . I have never called in sick [emoji1787] I called in tired one day way back in the day lol. After a corona commercial in 04 or 09 said I would twice as hard the next day [emoji23][emoji1787].

My choice my life I have the right to refuse a new test experiment . Until proven otherwise I don't have to put anything into me . Prove it won't have negative effects year's down the Rd . Remember big pharma is only out for big bucks. They don't care about you they care about Proffitts.

Lots of recall of medicine over the years or law suits for what a medication did to them .

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I see Russia is handing out their own version of vaccine to its citizens like candy. 100 thousand people already got it, I'd like to see how fast tracked that vaccine was LOL

This is the newest, biggest money maker in the world...by a long shot

To the company that makes the first, best Vaccine the money involved is unimaginable.

Be a cold day in hell before this vaccine enters my body before more testing.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

In this day and age, they can't control social media, any major issues will be known quickly. Just have to watch the BBC and Al Jazeera, they are fairly neutral politically.

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Yes, there are ways of getting truthful information. People are resourceful. TOR browser instead of Chrome. Bit Chute instead of Youtube....etc.
Postmedia / National Post / Sun newspapers have a somewhat more balanced opinions. Also, comments left on politicians Facebook pages can also be helpful for a balanced approach. Just need to separate the 2 extremes and find the middle ground.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by impact

Remember....CTV is a propaganda machine for the Liberals. Surveys can be skewed any way you want. Many books written on the subject of lying with statistics.
Why would Facebook block any negative comments on the vaccine? Would it not serve the population best if people related their experiences on the initial early rollout? Yes there will be an app to report problems to the authorities who again will filter the data.

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Yes but it only gives them what they want to hear . They like the attention and gives them a source to say it's what the public wanted and miss guide the public.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

In this day and age, they can't control social media, any major issues will be known quickly. Just have to watch the BBC and Al Jazeera, they are fairly neutral politically.

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The BBC was telling the world that Trump lost the Election at about noon EST on the day of the election.

Now do they have a crystal ball or something? Cause I sure would like one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

The BBC was telling the world that Trump lost the Election at about noon EST on the day of the election.

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Turns out they were right...:)

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Turns out they were right...:)

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When they made the announcement, the voting centres had only been open in Commifornia for about an hour...

Seems a bit dodgy mate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

See how fast things happen when the entire worlds scientists work on one problem. To bad that they can’t do that to solve many more problems.

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Like cancer...covid vaccine ready in months but they cant find a cure for cancer?

Another article on the subject. The actual petition and supporting articles are contained in the article and it is an interesting read.

It basically says this is a big experiement and due to the inaccuracy of the PCR tests you can never know if this experimental mRNA vaccine actually works.

The petition lays out some of potential dangers that they are not taking into account or overlooking with the early approval/release of this experimental vaccine. Possible infertility in women of an unknown duration and something called Antibody Dependant Enhacement or ADE (VIII under statement of grounds) where you handle the vaccine fine but if you catch the wild virus later you get much sicker than you would have without the vaccine.

I am not a biologist or a doctor but I can read. If anyone on here can explain these concerns away please do.

I am not an anti vaxxer but I have questions.

https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/ex...nfertility-and

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jakezilla

If anyone on here can explain these concerns away please do.

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I like to read too and all indications are that there are some concerns but their theoretical at this time and not alarming.

Quote:

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Ian Haydon, who received the highest dose of the Moderna vaccine in its first human trial, knows what that’s like. (He received 250 micrograms, but partly in response to reactions like his, the company chose to take forward a lower dose of 100 micrograms.)

Twelve hours after receiving his second injection in May, Haydon got chills as well as “headache, muscle ache, fatigue, nausea,” and had a fever of 39.6°C. He went to urgent care, and later vomited and fainted before the symptoms receded, roughly 24 hours after they started, he says.

But Haydon says his experience was “a small price to pay” for the possibility of returning to normal life. “For me, this was a rough day. But if you compare it to what COVID can do, I think it really pales in comparison.”

Longer term side effects of mRNA vaccines remain theoretical. They include the possibility that people with lupus, whose disease is driven by antibodies against their own genetic code, could experience flare-ups because of the revved up immune response induced by the vaccines, says Sarfaraz Hasni, director of lupus clinical research at the National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases.

But there’s no evidence currently that mRNA vaccines cause autoimmune disease or make it worse, says Betty Diamond, an immunologist and rheumatologist at the Feinstein Institutes for Medical Research of Northwell Health. “At the moment there’s every reason to suggest that people with autoimmune diseases ought to get either of these vaccines when they get rolled out.”

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and like what was stated earlier:

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Those transient reactions should not dissuade people from getting vaccinated in the face of a pandemic virus that kills at least one in 200 of those it infects, says Florian Krammer, a vaccinologist at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, who participated in Pfizer’s pivotal trial. Sore arms, fevers, and fatigue are “unpleasant but not dangerous. I’m not concerned about [reactogenicity],” he says.

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https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...e-intense-some

I think I'd be far more worried about the potential long term affects of the virus itself....taking a vaccine, even with it's potential side affects , to prevent this is a far better choice.

Quote:

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Organ damage caused by COVID-19
Although COVID-19 is seen as a disease that primarily affects the lungs, it can damage many other organs as well. This organ damage may increase the risk of long-term health problems. Organs that may be affected by COVID-19 include:

Heart. Imaging tests taken months after recovery from COVID-19 have shown lasting damage to the heart muscle, even in people who experienced only mild COVID-19 symptoms. This may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future.
Lungs. The type of pneumonia often associated with COVID-19 can cause long-standing damage to the tiny air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs. The resulting scar tissue can lead to long-term breathing problems.
Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. COVID-19 may also increase the risk of developing Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.
Blood clots and blood vessel problems
COVID-19 can make blood cells more likely to clump up and form clots. While large clots can cause heart attacks and strokes, much of the heart damage caused by COVID-19 is believed to stem from very small clots that block tiny blood vessels (capillaries) in the heart muscle.

Other parts of the body affected by blood clots include the lungs, legs, liver and kidneys. COVID-19 can also weaken blood vessels and cause them to leak, which contributes to potentially long-lasting problems with the liver and kidneys.

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https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...20few%20weeks.

I have a couple of thoughts on this issue.

First I will never take the vaccine until it effects my income, and use every legal way possible to delay for at least 14 months. No can force you.

Second - using the military to implement the early roll out - does one thing and one thing only - ensures no province is liable if it fails or causes "side affects" - liability is wiped out for provincial governments, plus the image of soldiers adds authority and legitimacy to forced vaccines. Nefarious at least - criminal at best. The ability to restrict entry/services will be become legitimate across the board for government and business - which is the point - control.

Public opinion is squarely on the side of government, and simple perusal of FB, Twitter, and News Media posting will show people are ready to refuse medical care, place people in camps, wish those people dead and want them rounded up by police.

We have lost the fight in a general consensus.

Why do we need a vaccine - when 99.9875% recover completely - why masks now - when we flattened the curve during "first wave" with hand washing/distance - why do you have to be tested to know if you have "Deadly Virus", why have since July 6th and masks have infections sky rocketed with mask wearing - why are we wearing a non medical mask - in the face of "Deadly Virus", why, why, why. Mandated masks are pseudo science to reinforce fear on the psyche, for a virus that is not killing people in the streets. Remember last Jan, welded doors, dying people in the streets, mass spraying, 50 mil under lockdown in Wuhan, those images never occurred here or in Italy - today Wuhan is back to business - almost like it was staged by CCP..

The main risk group to dying is still only those over the age 75 and with comorbidly issues - almost zero risk of dying under age of 60.

No it should not be mandatory - it should not even be developed - it is only a tool of control - it is being used to re-engineer the world..as Global warming, (scratch), Climate Change (scratch), the world is ending in 12 yrs (scratch) - didn't work and only a world wide engineered pandemic will...and people cheer the loss of freedoms and rights.

Line052

Control it's what our government wants many give in. They believe they are right no matter what they do .

It's all they do is try and control the people and it's corrupt practices . It's not their job to control the people they have a job to do and they go way overboard thinking they own us . They don't want people to have their own voice they want to tell you what to do.

We need to work together as a society as the people we are . We need to think for ourselves make our own choice. It's how life works . What is life if you have no choice?

Not one person is better than the other we are all human we all have the same value of life . Many will disagree but it's the truth and people can't handle the truth.

Like many just think another dead banger is ok he was in a gang so it makes it ok . Not how that works and that banger has the same value as everyone else.
It's still a son a daughter and they have a family to . Their lives are just as important as mine or as yours or as Gilroy lol. It doesn't matter what they do they are all the same with the same value of life. The poor the homeless their lives are just as important as any other life.

Unfortunately the world has turned into a battle of money and power and greed.


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'It should not even be developed, it is only a tool of control' ? Climate change ? Global warming? Is every thing you disagree with, ( going against scientific knowledge), just to enable a NWO ? Tin foil hat time.

The Libertarian model is to let people die because they are old. They like statistics and use the often. So did Stalin who is reported to have said, "One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic."

The Libertarian model suggests all vaccines are a "tool of control" and would rather you be "free" while your children die of polio, measles, small pox, diphtheria, tetanus or a host of other deadly diseases rendered harmless by vaccines.

Libertarians regard your death as a "statistic" and are content to trade your life and those of your family for their sociopathic interpretation of freedom. The positive news is they are an assortment of fringe element conspiracy kooks that is easily ignored and have no impact on mainstream society.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

The Libertarian model is to let people die because they are old. They like statistics and use the often. So did Stalin who is reported to have said, "One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic."

The Libertarian model suggests all vaccines are a "tool of control" and would rather you be "free" while your children die of polio, measles, small pox, diphtheria, tetanus or a host of other deadly diseases rendered harmless by vaccines.

Libertarians regard your death as a "statistic" and are content to trade your life and those of your family for their sociopathic interpretation of freedom. The positive news is they are an assortment of fringe element conspiracy kooks that is easily ignored and have no impact on mainstream society.

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That is why in federal elections they get less votes than the Rhino Party. . More people would rather vote for a Rhino than a libertarian. lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

'It should not even be developed, it is only a tool of control' ? Climate change ? Global warming? Is every thing you disagree with, ( going against scientific knowledge), just to enable a NWO ? Tin foil hat time.

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Money can't fix global warming lol.

We need to work as a society and together to better it. But we are so divided and many can't think outside of what they believe.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

That is why in federal elections they get less votes than the Rhino Party. . More people would rather vote for a Rhino than a libertarian. lol.

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For good reason too. The Rhino party has a sense of humour and perspective. Libertarians not so much. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

That is why in federal elections they get less votes than the Rhino Party. . More people would rather vote for a Rhino than a libertarian. lol.

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If it came down to 2 sides the libtards would likely be gone.

Many voted NDP that were lib supporters
If they were not there they would have vote con because our leader is a tool.

To many voices in control and nothing much gets done.

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Agreed 100%%%%%

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jakezilla

another article on the subject. The actual petition and supporting articles are contained in the article and it is an interesting read.

It basically says this is a big experiement and due to the inaccuracy of the pcr tests you can never know if this experimental mrna vaccine actually works.

The petition lays out some of potential dangers that they are not taking into account or overlooking with the early approval/release of this experimental vaccine. Possible infertility in women of an unknown duration and something called antibody dependant enhacement or ade (viii under statement of grounds) where you handle the vaccine fine but if you catch the wild virus later you get much sicker than you would have without the vaccine.

I am not a biologist or a doctor but i can read. If anyone on here can explain these concerns away please do.

I am not an anti vaxxer but i have questions.

https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/ex...nfertility-and

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So were did I introduce Libertarian philosophy into this convo. You have just earned the FC response, hence forward. P.S., the fact that you didn't refute anything I wrote - is exactly why your response doesn't matter. P.S. old people die...its what they do, P.S.S, you people die as well. P.S.S.S - all people die and the All Father "Odin" knows the time and date each persons fate. JESH....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

The Libertarian model is to let people die because they are old. They like statistics and use the often. So did Stalin who is reported to have said, "One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic."

The Libertarian model suggests all vaccines are a "tool of control" and would rather you be "free" while your children die of polio, measles, small pox, diphtheria, tetanus or a host of other deadly diseases rendered harmless by vaccines.

Libertarians regard your death as a "statistic" and are content to trade your life and those of your family for their sociopathic interpretation of freedom. The positive news is they are an assortment of fringe element conspiracy kooks that is easily ignored and have no impact on mainstream society.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by line052

So were did I introduce Libertarian philosophy into this convo. You have just earned the FC response, hence forward. P.S., the fact that you didn't refute anything I wrote - is exactly why your response doesn't matter. P.S. old people die...its what they do, P.S.S, you people die as well. P.S.S.S - all people die and the All Father "Odin" knows the time and date each persons fate. JESH....

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"old people die... its (sic) what they do." Is it any wonder that type of thinking is either discredited or held up for ridicule and renders those who espouse it entirely unelectable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I think I'd be far more worried about the potential long term affects of the virus itself....taking a vaccine, even with it's potential side affects , to prevent this is a far better choice.

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MikePal,

That Mayo Clinic article on long term effects is pretty broad. I tried to look up some of the cited papers but had trouble finding them although I am sure they exist. I wanted to look at the articles because I would like to know how many people have these long term effects? Is is 1 in 10 or 1 in 10,000? What was the sample size? Did they have a preexisting condition that could have contributed to the long term effects? Where any of the people with lung issues on ventilators and that could have caused some of the damage? This article is just vague enough to put the fear in people so they will keep doing what they are told. If it was 1 in 10 that suffered from long term effects they would have definitely put it in there. The fact they they didn't tells me it is probably very rare or there are underlying conditions that could be a reason for the long term effects.

Like I said, I am not an anti vaxxer but I have some serious questions about this experimental vaccine and the only answers I can find are "Don't worry about it, shut up and take the vaccine if you want life to go back to normal".

The PCR tests are flawed and are not accurate. The PCR test was never meant to be a diagnostic tool. Basically, a sample is taken and then put through cycles to multiply the sample to something that can be actually used. The false positives increase as the number of cycles increase in the PCR test. If they can't accurately identify who is infected and who isn't they can't tell if the vaccine actually works. This has been known since the beginning but has been ignored by governments and the MSM.

All the potential side effects of the mRNA vaccine are theoretical and there is no evidence because they haven't done any extensive studies. They jabbed 44,000 people a couple months ago and called it good. This is not good science.

From the UK government document issued to health professionals regarding the mRNA vaccine

Summary of safety profile
The safety of COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 was evaluated in participants 16 years of age
and older in two clinical studies conducted in the United States, Europe, Turkey, South Africa, and
South America. Study BNT162-01 (Study 1) enrolled 60 participants, 18 through 55 years of age.
Study C4591001 (Study 2) enrolled approximately 44,000 participants, 12 years of age or older.
In Study 2, a total of 21,720 participants 16 years of age or older received at least one dose of COVID19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b and 21,728 participants 16 years of age or older received placebo. Out
of these, at the time of the analysis, 19,067 (9531 COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 and
9536 placebo) were evaluated for safety 2 months after the second dose of COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine
BNT162b2.

They are treating covid like they treat global warming. Make it up as they go and adjust the numbers through junk science to fit the current narrative. The case numbers they give for COVID come from junk science (flawed PCR tests) and on top of that a positive test does not indicate viral load and therefore is not a "case". The death count is junk science (failure to account properly for comorbidities and labelling everyone that dies with covid in their system as a covid death). The virus is real but the threat is not near as high as the media or government would have us believe.

The risk posed by the virus does not warrant the risk associated with this type of world wide experiment of an experimental vaccine that has been rushed and not tested properly.

From the petition

II.
Petitioner hereby also incorporates the grounds, facts, arguments and opinions stated inthe external peer review of the “Drosten-Test” (Exhibit B). Design flaws of certain RT-qPCRtests that are identical to or modeled after what is sometimes called the “Drosten-Test” can leadto false-positive results in trials designed such that PCR results are the primary evidence ofinfection. Exhibit B attached hereto shall be incorporated herein and shall be understood to be a part hereof as though included in the body of this petition.
VIII.
For a vaccine to work, our immune system needs to be stimulated to produce aneutralizing antibody, as opposed to a non-neutralizing antibody. A neutralizing antibody is onethat can recognize and bind to some region (‘epitope’) of the virus, and that subsequentlyresults in the virus either not entering or replicating in your cells. A non-neutralizing antibody isone that can bind to the virus, but for some reason, the antibody fails to neutralize the infectivityof the virus. In some viruses, if a person harbors a non-neutralizing antibody to the virus, asubsequent infection by the virus can cause that person to elicit a more severe reaction to thevirus due to the presence of the non-neutralizing antibody. This is not true for all viruses, only particular ones. This is called Antibody Dependent Enhancement (ADE), and is a common problem with Dengue Virus, Ebola Virus, HIV, RSV, and the family of coronaviruses. In fact,this problem of ADE is a major reason why many previous vaccine trials for othercoronaviruses failed. Major safety concerns were observed in animal models. If ADE occurs inan individual, their response to the virus can be worse than their response if they had neverdeveloped an antibody in the first place. This can cause a hyperinflammatory response, acytokine storm, and a generally dysregulation of the immune system that allows the virus tocause more damage to our lungs and other organs of our body. In addition, new cell typesthroughout our body are now susceptible to viral infection due to the additional viral entry pathway. There are many studies that demonstrate that ADE is a persistent problem withcoronaviruses in general, and in particular, with SARS-related viruses. ADE has proven to be aserious challenge with coronavirus vaccines, and this is the primary reason many of suchvaccines have failed in early in-vitro or animal trials. For example, rhesus macaques who werevaccinated with the Spike protein of the SARS-CoV virus demonstrated severe acute lunginjury when challenged with SARS-CoV, while monkeys who were not vaccinated did not.Similarly, mice who were immunized with one of four different SARS-CoV vaccines showedhistopathological changes in the lungs with eosinophil infiltration after being challenged with SARS-CoV virus.
IX.
There are some concerning issues with the trial designs, spelled out by Dr. Peter Doshi inthe British Medical Journal. Dr. Doshi focuses on the two biggest issues. First, none of theleading vaccine candidate trials is designed to test if the vaccine can reduce severe COVID-19symptoms, defined as: hospital admissions, ICU or death. And, second, the trials are notdesigned to test if the vaccine can interrupt transmission(https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/371/bmj.m4037.full.pdf). If neither of these conditions ismet, the vaccine in essence performs like a therapeutic drug, except a vaccine would be taken prophylactically, even by the perfectly healthy, and more than likely carries a higher risk ofinjury than a therapeutic drug. If this were to be true, then therapeutic drugs would be superiorto any COVID vaccine.
X
. In the Pfizer/BioNTech mRNA vaccine candidate, polyethylene glycol (PEG) is found inthe fatty lipid nanoparticle coating around the mRNA. Seventy percent of people makeantibodies to PEG and most do not know it, creating a concerning situation where many couldhave allergic, potentially deadly, reactions to a PEG-containing vaccine. PEG antibodies mayalso reduce vaccine effectiveness. Pfizer/BioNTech is also inserting an ingredient derived froma marine invertebrate, mNeonGreen, into its vaccine. The ingredient has bioluminescentqualities, making it attractive for medical imaging purposes, but it is unclear why an injectedvaccine would need to have that quality. mNeonGreen has unknown antigenicity.
XI
. Several vaccine candidates are expected to induce the formation of humoral antibodiesagainst spike proteins of SARS-CoV-2. Syncytin-1 (see Gallaher, B., “Response to nCoV2019Against Backdrop of Endogenous Retroviruses” - http://virological.org/t/response-to...troviruses/396), which is derived from human endogenousretroviruses (HERV) and is responsible for the development of a placenta in mammals andhumans and is therefore an essential prerequisite for a successful pregnancy, is also found inhomologous form in the spike proteins of SARS viruses. There is no indication whetherantibodies against spike proteins of SARS viruses would also act like anti-Syncytin-1antibodies. However, if this were to be the case this would then also prevent the formation of a placenta which would result in vaccinated women essentially becoming infertile. To myknowledge, Pfizer/BioNTech has yet to release any samples of written materials provided to patients, so it is unclear what, if any, information regarding (potential) fertility-specific riskscaused by antibodies is included.According to section 10.4.2 of the Pfizer/BioNTech trial protocol, a woman of childbearing potential (WOCBP) is eligible to participate if she is not pregnant or breastfeeding, and is usingan acceptable contraceptive method as described in the trial protocol during the intervention period (for a minimum of 28 days after the last dose of study intervention).This means that it could take a relatively long time before a noticeable number of cases of post-vaccination infertility could be observed.
XII.
It appears that Pfizer/BioNTech have not yet released any samples of written materials provided to patients, so it is unclear what, if any, instructions/information patients/subjects weregiven regarding ADE and PEG-related issues and (potential) fertility- or pregnancy-specificissues

Jkhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c982804aa1.jpg

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Jakezilla is telling the truth, whether or not people want to believe it or not is another thing. Especially when the media and government have been conducting a 24/7 psyop on the population for the last 11-12 months, it is difficult for most to grasp. It's been one big fear campaign to scare everyone into taking this vax.
I don't post often, but the government is no longer your friend.
There is a reason they passed a law that prevents you or your family from suing any health care worker or vax administer if there are problems stemming from it.
Theresa Tam was in a movie back in 2010 called "Outbreak; Anatomy of a Plague" which basically goes through what we are seeing now.
Odd that she just happens to be the "top doctor" in Canada today. Check imdb for the movie.
People should look up Event 201, as well as the fact that there is a patent on the Coronavirus which means it is NOT a naturally occurring element. You cannot own a patent on an Elm Tree, but you can own a patent on a genetically modified element. The virus was created in a lab. But the media won't talk about that, in fact they ridicule those who present this info but the info is easy to find with an internet search.
Funny too how those who promote global depopulation are those who also own the patent on CV.
People's freedoms to travel, work or shop or participate in society should not be hindered because they choose not to take the vax.
It's called freedom to choose.
I am not anti-vax, there is a place for them and they have done much good throughout history. But this one is in a class of it's own. The more they sell it and push it the more you have to ask "why?"
Why are they using the military to dispense it? Shoppers Drug Marts and your local family clinics have been used for the flu shots, why the military now? If it isn't for coercion, why?
Mask mandates have been going on for 8 months or more and yet numbers are going up again - perhaps masks don't work - like both the CDC and Theresa Tam both said back in March. Now Tam says you must have a 3 layer mask that is tight fitting on your face. Why not a plastic bag over your head and tied with a string around your neck? How are these numbers verified? It is also a known fact that the tests are problematic to say the least -
This entire thing is about control and the Global Reset - which our PM recently stated, and then detracted his statement even though there is video of him saying it.
Check out the World Economic Forum and the Great Reset - "you will own nothing and be happy"
Even if they have to drug you to be happy. I won't post links - people should be eager to do their own research on this topic, including what the ingredients for the vax are and not just let the media tell you what you should think about it.
Yes, this is a global scam and the media and governments are promoting it.
Oh - and there is that little question about the request for tenders for internment camps that the Federal Government issued a few months back. MPP Randy Hillier brought it up in question period and was basically told to sit down and shut up.
No - the vax should not be mandatory and government supported sanctions against those who choose not to are equal to Communist dictator rules like those in China and the old CCCP. But Trudeau takes his orders from the UN and other global entities, not Canadians - of this there is no debate.

Stop it, your logic makes sense....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chesapeake

Jkhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c982804aa1.jpg

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were you reading my notes of the last 7 yrs....no you are just awake to control. well said.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by old outdoorsman

Jakezilla is telling the truth, whether or not people want to believe it or not is another thing. Especially when the media and government have been conducting a 24/7 psyop on the population for the last 11-12 months, it is difficult for most to grasp. It's been one big fear campaign to scare everyone into taking this vax.
I don't post often, but the government is no longer your friend.
There is a reason they passed a law that prevents you or your family from suing any health care worker or vax administer if there are problems stemming from it.
Theresa Tam was in a movie back in 2010 called "Outbreak; Anatomy of a Plague" which basically goes through what we are seeing now.
Odd that she just happens to be the "top doctor" in Canada today. Check imdb for the movie.
People should look up Event 201, as well as the fact that there is a patent on the Coronavirus which means it is NOT a naturally occurring element. You cannot own a patent on an Elm Tree, but you can own a patent on a genetically modified element. The virus was created in a lab. But the media won't talk about that, in fact they ridicule those who present this info but the info is easy to find with an internet search.
Funny too how those who promote global depopulation are those who also own the patent on CV.
People's freedoms to travel, work or shop or participate in society should not be hindered because they choose not to take the vax.
It's called freedom to choose.
I am not anti-vax, there is a place for them and they have done much good throughout history. But this one is in a class of it's own. The more they sell it and push it the more you have to ask "why?"
Why are they using the military to dispense it? Shoppers Drug Marts and your local family clinics have been used for the flu shots, why the military now? If it isn't for coercion, why?
Mask mandates have been going on for 8 months or more and yet numbers are going up again - perhaps masks don't work - like both the CDC and Theresa Tam both said back in March. Now Tam says you must have a 3 layer mask that is tight fitting on your face. Why not a plastic bag over your head and tied with a string around your neck? How are these numbers verified? It is also a known fact that the tests are problematic to say the least -
This entire thing is about control and the Global Reset - which our PM recently stated, and then detracted his statement even though there is video of him saying it.
Check out the World Economic Forum and the Great Reset - "you will own nothing and be happy"
Even if they have to drug you to be happy. I won't post links - people should be eager to do their own research on this topic, including what the ingredients for the vax are and not just let the media tell you what you should think about it.
Yes, this is a global scam and the media and governments are promoting it.
Oh - and there is that little question about the request for tenders for internment camps that the Federal Government issued a few months back. MPP Randy Hillier brought it up in question period and was basically told to sit down and shut up.
No - the vax should not be mandatory and government supported sanctions against those who choose not to are equal to Communist dictator rules like those in China and the old CCCP. But Trudeau takes his orders from the UN and other global entities, not Canadians - of this there is no debate.

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Post's 119 àñd 121

Know what's up lol


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These right here and we see alot of here.

https://youtu.be/5EoYTWJof1g


https://youtu.be/6joO2-n8wJk




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Ok. Here is a view point. No links no Stats, just a personal view point.

There are many many groups of people that "fly under the Radar" so to speak, simply because of their jobs.
The truck driver, ranch hand, farm worker, etc, all generally out of sight out of mind. Ignored and forgotten for the most part.

For once that may be the greatest thing a person can hope for, to be "Ignored" and "Forgotten" about for as long as possible. The vaccination plans are to start with the Elderly, the infirm, the "Important" people. Well for once it's nice to NOT be important.

As for side effects. You only need to reduce the successful birth rate of a species by a few percent each generation for it to go extinct.

What we don't know about the vaccine.
The little studies they did didn't show how it reacts in the public.

They are saying it's 95 percent effective at keeping covid from making you seriously ill. There could be many who can spread it who show no symptoms after a vaccine they say. Silent spreaders will be hard to track down only time will tell I guess .

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/h...cine-mask.html

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Originally Posted by fishfood

They are saying it's 95 percent effective at keeping covid from making you seriously ill.

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Is it not what we are experiencing now without a vaccine?

The good thing is that the government is dragging things so much the rest of the world will have the vaccine before Canada, so if it is dangerous we will know about it before it gets here.

When it does get here the weakest will get it first, again, we will know if they all die that it is dangerous. By the time it gets to the average Joe and Jane all the bugs will be known.

The stats I want to see is the % of the people that truly get the ‘common’ flu not just think that they had it, , and their death rate each year and their death %... Verses if everyone that gets covid and just because it is new they say everyone will get it but some will be asymmetric. Is it then 1% of the entire population to be expected to die without a vaccine? Quite the cull.

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Originally Posted by impact

Is it not what we are experiencing now without a vaccine?

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Yeah pretty much

It sounds like they have no clue what will happen when it arrives in big numbers.

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Fox. Just like buying a car, don’t get the first year of a new model.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fox

The good thing is that the government is dragging things so much the rest of the world will have the vaccine before Canada, so if it is dangerous we will know about it before it gets here.

When it does get here the weakest will get it first, again, we will know if they all die that it is dangerous. By the time it gets to the average Joe and Jane all the bugs will be known.

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Apparently we won't be waiting to long . Maybe the general public but 125 thousand people could be vaccinated in the coming weeks.
That's a small sample study .

https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/cor...1_5220229.html

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Fox. Just like buying a car, don’t get the first year of a new model.

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But your Eger to jump on it and tell others they should get it .

Booo

LoL [emoji1787]

It's ok I know others that are waiting for it as well. Just not my cup a tea yet I will still be following the guidelines to prevent the spread .

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fox

When it does get here the weakest will get it first, again, we will know if they all die that it is dangerous. By the time it gets to the average Joe and Jane all the bugs will be known.

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Does make one wonder why they are giving it to our front line essential workers first...let's give an experimental vaccine to all our health care workers first....then who's going to take care of them if they all have bad reactions..risk assessment skills ...C- Haha...

Take this for what it's worth ( Not a lot). You can google the author on your own. I did, I fact check a lot. Still doesn't mean much That said, everything I've read about it makes sense.

Will I get it?
yep, as soon as I can. What's the worst that can happen? Kill me? I'm on borrowed time anyways.

While Covid may not be as deadly to healthy people as first feared it's still freaking nasty. But co morbidities this, co morbidities that. If you eat french fries every day and end up with high cholesterol, have a heart attack and die. What killed you? french fries? My mother caught a cold, it developed into pnuemonia, which led to a heart attack. Did a cold kill her?

I can't figure this world out. Its gone absolutely bat poop crazy. Half the population screaming for lockdowns, the people hurting screaming to stay open. Half the population is in the SS employed coasting to shore, half the population in a leaky boat sinking fast. The sooner we knock this down, the better for everyone no matter which boat your on. And every month that goes by we are hearing more and more about "long covid" and even healthy, young adults ending up with organ damage.....I read an article today about inflation on food. Expected to be 7% this coming year adding hundreds of dollars to everyones food budgets. Problems with production and supply logistics.......So yeah, lets puck this vaccine up too federally, while the populace worries about a new drug. Should I or shouldn't I.

The two most powerful motivators in the world are fear and greed. The world seems to have them both on steroids.
*************************


Thoughts about the COVID vaccine from one of my smartest friends in grad school Gary P. Chimes, written by one of his smartest friends from med school:
COVID VACCINE HESITANCY?
The FDA is likely going to approve the Pfizer Covid vaccine when they meet on December 10th. The Moderna vaccine will probably be approved shortly thereafter. This is an incredible feat of modern medicine, and our best chance to hopefully get our lives back to near normal relatively soon. However, it is new and it was done quickly, so understandably, people may be hesitant to get it; even people who vaccinate against all other diseases.
Will I be getting the vaccine? ABSOLUTELY. As a physician, I will probably have the opportunity to be immunized prior to New Year's and yes, I will be taking it as soon as possible.
But, it is a new vaccine technology and done in record time, so aren't I worried about its safety? Nope, not any more so than any other vaccine or other medical intervention.
Why? Let's start with how this vaccine works. This is an mRNA vaccine. Past vaccines typically use a live but weakened "attenuated" virus, or dead viral material "inactivated" virus, or a piece of the virus's protein or even a toxin produced by the virus. The Covid vaccine is very different. It contains mRNA (messenger genetic material) that encodes for the Covid spike protein. This causes your cells to then produce the Covid spike protein. In contrast, when you are sick with Covid, the virus hijacks your cell to produce many copies of the entire virus. Then it destroys the cell, busting it open to release its newly formed viral particles. When your cells release just the spike protein, it will stimulate your immune system to form antibodies to the Covid spike protein without you getting sick. There is no possibility of getting Covid from the vaccine. When your body is subsequently exposed to Covid, it will quickly recognize the spike protein and destroy it before it can make you sick. This was 95% effective in preventing Covid, which is an even better percentage than most other vaccines. However, you must take both doses (about 3-4 weeks apart).
Am I concerned about it being new? And previously untested? No, I'm not. This type of technology is not entirely new. It has been studied and used in cancer research. They have been making mRNA vaccines and studying them to specifically target proteins on tumor cells and train your immune system to then destroy the tumor. In this case, it is not a vaccine in the preventive sense, as it is targeted to a tumor that you already have. It is not currently widespread because it has to be custom made for each tumor. But, it has been "around the block" for a while now. The technology was also being studied for other Coronaviruses. It never came to fruition, because the diseases never reached pandemic proportions, and then the funding dried up. The mRNA does not enter the nucleus of the cell, and it does not affect your DNA, and therefore has no lasting impact on your cell.
Am I concerned about the speed with which it was developed? Weren't significant corners cut in order to get this out so quickly? No and no. What was cut out of the equation was mostly red tape, and what was added was technology and funding. We were given the genetic code by scientists in China to start vaccine production in January; before Covid was even documented to have reached our shores. From there, the vaccine was developed from the technology we had from the prior Coronavirus and cancer research, and was completed in March. Normally, there would be months of waiting for the FDA to even look at the work done prior to approving Phase 1 trials. Because of the urgent nature of this, it was essentially put on the top of the wait pile, which cut out months of waiting, but did not cut any corners. Between the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines (both mRNA, with a slightly different delivery system), they were tested in 37,000 people in Phase 3 (and an additional 37,000 received a placebo). That is on par with, if not better than the vaccines currently available.
Aren't I concerned that the FDA is about to approve it, and there may be side effects that haven't been seen yet? Nope on this one too. We know from decades of vaccine research, since you typically just get 1, 2 or 3 doses and then you are done with it, that nearly all side effects from vaccines occur in the first 6 weeks. Like other vaccines, minor side effects may occur(soreness at injection site, muscle aches, fever). Severe adverse reactions are extremely rare, and again, occur quickly if they are going to occur at all. As a healthy 40-something year old woman, my risk of dying from Covid is about 1 in 250 to 1 in a 1,000. That is not a rare event! And even if I don't die from it, I could have long term lung damage and other issues that affect my quality of life. Because vaccines are given to healthy people (unlike medications for treating a disease that is already present) they are held to a much higher standard for approval. My risk of having a significant adverse reaction from the Covid vaccine is minuscule in comparison to my risk with Covid. In fact, there have been no severe reactions to the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine to date.
For the rest of the population (outside of healthcare workers or those in nursing homes), who will likely be able to get the vaccine in February or March, there will be even more time passed and more people who have received the vaccine to be the "guinea pigs" here.
Anyone who is pregnant - it has not yet been tested in your group (although I do know that many pregnant front line health care workers are planning to take it). For those under 18 years old - it is also not yet tested. Moderna will be starting a trial shortly. Hopefully it will be approved by summer. But for everyone else, I highly recommend getting it as soon as you can; for you, for your loved ones, for those who cannot (perhaps because they are immunocompromised), for the many businesses that are on the verge of permanent shut down, and for kids to safely return to schools. I will be rolling up my sleeve for it as soon as it is offered.
If you'd like, please do feel free to cut and paste on your own social media sites. Sharing of information is so important to combating this pandemic. We have now surpassed 15 million documented Covid cases in our country (5 million of which were in the last 30 days) and over 2,000 people are dying per day. I do not plan on making the post shareable, as I don't need militant anti-vaxers tracking me down.
Samara Friedman, M.D.
Orthopaedic Surgery
(While, I am not an expert in vaccines, as a physician, I do have the necessary skills to interpret medical studies and evaluate data. Additionally, I have been listening to the experts in virology, infectious disease, and epidemiology.)

Thanks JBEN.

Ditto!!!

https://youtu.be/Tq8SXOBy-4w
I wonder when the suppression of facts will take over as the leading cause of covid deaths. It may have already taken the lead actually.
Let's see how the cult leaders spin this one.

For all you people in a big rush to get the vaccine please have a look at the data sheet associated with the roll out happening in the UK.
They rushed it and there are many unknowns at this time. However, if you proceed please keep us informed.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...fessionals.pdf

No data are available

4.5 Interaction with other medicinal products and other forms of interaction No interaction studies have been performed.
Animal reproductive toxicity studies have not been completed.

For women of childbearing age, pregnancy should be excluded before vaccination. In addition, women of childbearing age should be advised to avoid pregnancy for at least 2 months after their second dose.

Fertility - It is unknown whether COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 has an impact on fertility.

However, some of the adverse reactions mentioned under section 4.8 may temporarily affect the ability to drive or use machines.


not known (cannot be estimated from available data).

Musculoskeletal and connective tissue disorders Very common: Arthralgia; myalgia General disorders and administration site condition Very common: Injection-site pain; fatigue; chills; pyrexia

.......and so on.

The new underground business will be making fake vaccination cards of which I would be the first to purchase.

If businesses want to restrict access to only people who have a vaccination card they are going to see even more record losses. I would wager that the percent of people who do not get the vaccine will be around the same percent of their profit margins.

A rushed vaccine for a virus that only affects less then 1 percent? I think Ill take my odds. The potential side effects of the vaccine are greater and more severe then the average persons covid symptoms or lack thereof.

And yet again in 2020, the cure is worse then the cause.

Invermectin.
Wide spread use in Latin America since what late spring???
.Latin America also some of the worst Covid numbers. The two don’t add up. If it’s even half as effective as the Dr makes it out be. Covid would be dying out by now.

Another way to look at it.
Driving your car is a risk. Yet we all do anyways. In fact, many anti Vaxers, anti maskers will use those arguements or similar about Covid. Aka what’s the big deal. More people die from a,b,c. So I might ask anti vaxers what’s the big deal. There are far deadlier things. :)

A friend shared a great meme, I wish I could copy it here. It’s a picture of 4 guys in a room watching a TV. Quite visible are bags of chips, processed crap, tons of booze, cigarettes, bongs, and maybe even some coke.
“You won’t vaccinate but you have no problems ingesting dozens of other toxins daily”
:)

Letting Covid destroy peoples health and economies is a choice. A risk if you will, that’s obviously not working.

Pick your poison.
Covid and trashed economies. Or a vaccine.

Seems easy to me.

I think I'll take the actual word of the Doctor who's been on the front line for the entire covid-19 response over the word of any media outlet today on therapeutics.
Our media early on treated most therapeutics that might show promise as the second coming of poison. That, on its face is disgusting.
I have a hard time following the so called knowledge providers that would pedal such BS lies in the middle of their pandemic.
Out of 170 countries I counted, we're tied for 25th for the highest death rate in the world.
Therapeutics and the death rate have been a dirty little secret from the beginning. Been asking why since day one.
The death rate should have been the focal point and worked backwards from there.
Suppression is a pretty powerful thing and they're using it because it's working.

Well so much for that...I can see the % of people who will take the vaccine plummeting.. HaHa..

Quote:

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LONDON -- U.K. regulators said Wednesday that people who have a "significant history" of allergic reactions shouldn't receive the new Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine while they investigate two adverse reactions that occurred on the first day of the country's mass vaccination program.

"As is common with new vaccines the MHRA have advised on a precautionary basis that people with a significant history of allergic reactions do not receive this vaccination after two people with a history of significant allergic reactions responded adversely yesterday," Powis said in a statement. "Both are recovering well."

---

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/u-k-inv...shot-1.5223107

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

Well so much for that...I can see the % of people who will take the vaccine plummeting.. HaHa..



https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/u-k-inv...shot-1.5223107

---

"The medical regulatory agency also said vaccinations should not be carried out in facilities that don't have resuscitation equipment."

Allergic reaction is a broad definition. They have not tested the vaccine and its interaction with other drugs. Blood pressure medication, diabetes, etc. nor long term effects. It is a no-no for fertility and pregnancies. Children under 16 are not to take it.
Humans are now guinea pigs in a rush to make billions in revenues. Big Pharma is protected from lawsuits. I will stay at the back of the line and wait for a more traditional vaccine roll out.

Wouldn't "on other medications" apply to the vast majority of people who are most in need of this vaccine?

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They probably picked healthy people for the study and not on medications .

I have some allergies some scented soaps and penicillin but when I last did an alergey test was in school and it was the entire paper filled with about 30 different lol. But I only notice the strawberry soaps a few scented soaps get a little bit of a rash .

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishfood

They probably picked healthy people for the study and not on medications .


Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

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That is correct.

4.5 Interaction with other medicinal products and other forms of interaction
No interaction studies have been performed.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...fessionals.pdf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GW11

Wouldn't "on other medications" apply to the vast majority of people who are most in need of this vaccine?

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

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You sir can understand the written word..be careful the overlords may not like that..:joker:

Jben,

That article you posted reeks of "Big Pharma Shill". I've said my piece earlier in this thread and don't have the time to pick it apart, but here are a few highlights.

"this type of technology is not entirely new. It has been studied and used in cancer research. They have been making mRNA vaccines and studying them to specifically target proteins on tumor cells and train your immune system to then destroy the tumor. In this case, it is not a vaccine in the preventive sense, as it is targeted to a tumor that you already have. It is not currently widespread because it has to be custom made for each tumor. But, it has been "around the block" for a while now."

mRNA technology has been around but have never been tested on humans.

"FDA to even look at the work done prior to approving Phase 1 trials. Because of the urgent nature of this, it was essentially put on the top of the wait pile, which cut out months of waiting, but did not cut any corners. Between the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines (both mRNA, with a slightly different delivery system), they were tested in 37,000 people in Phase 3 (and an additional 37,000 received a placebo). That is on par with, if not better than the vaccines currently available."

It may be on par with other vaccines available but this is not a traditional vaccination. This a a false equivalency.

"Aren't I concerned that the FDA is about to approve it, and there may be side effects that haven't been seen yet? Nope on this one too. We know from decades of vaccine research, since you typically just get 1, 2 or 3 doses and then you are done with it, that nearly all side effects from vaccines occur in the first 6 weeks. Like other vaccines, minor side effects may occur(soreness at injection site, muscle aches, fever). Severe adverse reactions are extremely rare, and again, occur quickly if they are going to occur at all."

Again this is not a traditional vaccination again ... Apples to Oranges.

"And even if I don't die from it, I could have long term lung damage and other issues that affect my quality of life"

I addressed this earlier in the thread, where's the evidence? If there was any real evidence of this back up by legitimate studies you can bet they would parade them out in front of everyone. Instead it's alluded to in passing just to put the fear in everyone and let there imaginations work.

"We have now surpassed 15 million documented Covid cases in our country (5 million of which were in the last 30 days) and over 2,000 people are dying per day. I do not plan on making the post shareable, as I don't need militant anti-vaxers tracking me down."

Numbers based on flawed PCR tests and death counts that are very questionable.

Want to get people to start questioning vaccinations? Start pushing an experimental vaccine on them.

Remember.....Thalidomide was "safe" and FDA approved also.

Don't get caught in the COVID trap....defending the indefensible.

Rolling this out on young females of child bearing age is indefensible.
Lockdowns are indefensible.
Mandatory masks are indefensible.
Mandatory vaccines are indefensible.

There is no quality science available to justify any of these things. Everything I have seen to justify these things is junk science. It looks good on the surface but when you dig into it you see the flaws and poor method.

The unidimensional approach to COVID is insane. Only the opinion of health professionals seem count, instead of engaging economists and historians to get a little perspective on the problem.

And just like that Pfizer vaccine is already approved by Health Canada.

I would say it is indefensible to do nothing. Let nature take it’s course is indefensible. If you die you die. Do we do that with other diseases? Do we consult historians or economists when we have cancer? Nope just people who specialize in Health. Communicable Disease experts are exactly who we should be listening to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

I would say it is indefensible to do nothing. Let nature take it’s course is indefensible. If you die you die. Do we do that with other diseases? Do we consult historians or economists when we have cancer? Nope just people who specialize in Health. Communicable Disease experts are exactly who we should be listening to.

---

We don't consult economists or historians when we have cancer because they don't lockdown for cancer. You consult economists and historians in an attempt to get some perspective to see if the cure "lockdown" is going to end up being worse than the disease "COVID".

It is scary the quantity of ignorant people here who let the media do their thinking for them.
If you want to take the poison shot, go ahead, but don't make me take it.
I take great care of what I put in my body and I don't want aborted baby cells, mercury and aluminum injected into me to re-program my DNA/RNA.

The medical experts are speaking but being ignored. Quite a few Canadians actually who are putting their reputation on the line.
Common sense is being ignored by governments worldwide for a reason.

"As immunity builds in the population, the risk of infection to all – including the vulnerable – falls. We know that all populations will eventually reach herd immunity – i.e. the point at which the rate of new infections is stable – and that this can be assisted by (but is not dependent upon) a vaccine. Our goal should therefore be to minimize mortality and social harm until we reach herd immunity."

https://gbdeclaration.org/#read

U

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jakezilla

We don't consult economists or historians when we have cancer because they don't lockdown for cancer. You consult economists and historians in an attempt to get some perspective to see if the cure "lockdown" is going to end up being worse than the disease "COVID".

---

So the politicians listen to the infectious disease professional about the virus. They speak with economists about the affect on the economy. They consult with mental health professionals about the affects of lock downs. And as the leader of your Country or Province you must make a decision about which path you take. What will help the most while hurting the least? In this case they are damed if they do and damed if they don’t. That is politics.

For what's it worth,

I fall on the "the cure" is doing more harm side. The economic fallout all this is going to be harsh and wide spread. Felt for year.....years....to come. Potentially more so as ripple effects occur which even the brightest, can only really take educated guesses at. Fear and greed....... Nor have we really even begun to add the toll of suicides, family breakdowns, alcohol abuse, spousal or child abuse ( like suicides we are seeing spikes now) and more......

It also "bothers" me, we are throwing people under the bus. Sacrificing them. Most often I sense those with secure jobs are screaming the loudest. FFS at least when we went to war back in the 40s, everyone enlisted...........Nor are we really doing enough to compensate those we are throwing under the bus.

However, vaccination is the fastest way to get there. And yeah there might be some risk. "So what", life is a risk. I could meet a client today and be dead in 3 weeks.
Don't like the lockdowns?
Don't like the debt thats being added?
Dont want your taxes to skyrocket?

Get a shot imo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

However, vaccination is the fastest way to get there. And yeah there might be some risk. "So what", life is a risk. I could meet a client today and be dead in 3 weeks.
Don't like the lockdowns?
Don't like the debt thats being added?
Dont want your taxes to skyrocket?

Get a shot imo.

---

If your willing to take an injection of an untested drug, feel free nobody is stopping you. Why does it matter if others don't want to take a drug that has bypassed safety procedures and testing but is already approved before it even hits our soil?

and were supposed to believe that they forgot to mention allergies lol it happens I guess .. lol

but im excited. we now have a 95% effective vaccine for the super healthy ppl, who fit in the 99% that covid would not bother ...

I feel safer already ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by canadaman30

If your willing to take an injection of an untested drug, feel free nobody is stopping you. Why does it matter if others don't want to take a drug that has bypassed safety procedures and testing but is already approved before it even hits our soil?

---

But...but...the government says it’s safe!!! What could possibly go wrong ?

I agree Jben the cure is worse than the disease. Want this to end...turn off the news.

This will not end with the vaccine just like "2 weeks to flatten the curve" is still going on.

They are already prepping us. There are "leaders and health professionals" already saying measures may not end with the vaccine.

If people want to take this experimental vaccine go for it but when you start coercing people to take it (can't do this or go there without the experimental vaccine) then there is a problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rick_iles

But...but...the government says it’s safe!!! What could possibly go wrong ?

---

As long as they tell us it's safe, it must be safe...lol

Did I say it bothered me?

I may not understand why so many seem to fear it. We willingly put more crap and more pharmacuticals into our system on a daily basis. "Rhetorical" question. Do we like smoked meat? me I love it, won't bat an eye. Despite knowing what carcinogens do to us........"just saying". Or the fact, the longer this drags on, I run a risk of getting Covid myself, etc.

And In part I may not understand their reasoning, because the hard indisputable truth of the matter is, that the fastest way to "herd immunity" is with vaccines. The more people willing to get shots, the faster that day arrives. Period.

That does not mean it bothers me, or I think all anti vaxxers are conspiracy flakes. It means, so if a person is "pissed off" about lockdowns, people getting thrown under a bus, etc, etc....IMO get a shot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

Did I say it bothered me?

I may not understand why so many seem to fear it. We willingly put more crap and more pharmacuticals into our system on a daily basis. "Rhetorical" question. Do we like smoked meat? me I love it, won't bat an eye. Despite knowing what carcinogens do to us........"just saying". Or the fact, the longer this drags on, I run a risk of getting Covid myself, etc.

And In part I may not understand their reasoning, because the hard indisputable truth of the matter is, that the fastest way to "herd immunity" is with vaccines. The more people willing to get shots, the faster that day arrives. Period.

That does not mean it bothers me, or I think all anti vaxxers are conspiracy flakes. It means, so if a person is "pissed off" about lockdowns, people getting thrown under a bus, etc, etc....IMO get a shot.

---

We know that eating too much smoked meat will not cause you to grow a third arm.

You can't say the same about these vaccines.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

Funny that, the letter from the doctor.

I was on a call with my doctor today and they said they would take it if forced but not otherwise. They recommended watching Britain closely to see what sort of fallout will occur.

There's a big difference between going for a drive in a car and jumping out in front of one.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

It's not a traditional vaccine it's an experiment. They keep using the word vaccine to lull people to sleep so they won't take a good look at it. It's a live test on the population of the world and everyone just has their fingers crossed.

True that Oaknut.
But Chemo will mess you up permanently all the same.
Memory loss other wise known as Chemo Brain.

Neuropathy. Nasty and permanent.

So will having tissue and organs removed permanently.

There’s more.

Does that even give you pause before firing up the smoker? It’s a well documented link/risk.
*****

Point being. We put far more and worse into us daily. Or we take small risk daily per se. so for me anyways the “ but side effects or chemicals” don’t really wash....but thats me.

By the time these are readily available we will know more. Why all the fear now? Especially given the risk/reward profile? I have to bite my tongue I’m so pissed at the way people are being thrown under the bus, while many seem to carrying on as though it’s not happening . Better them than me I guess. Be that as it may.

I fully expect there to be some side effects. I’m neither stressed nor worried about them. And do plan to be in line.

I find it odd having expressed why, imo....

Seems to me, the people that are bothered by others.. that will.......

Jben,

You keep referencing known risks. The mRNA vaccine is an unknown risk. There's a difference.

For many the unknown risk outweighs the potential benefit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

But...but...the government says it’s safe!!! What could possibly go wrong ?

---

They also said banning guns will make the streets safer. Did it make the streets safer ? The amount of bullets flying around the streets this year is making history [emoji1787].

Several of the shootings let 40 to 70 shots off that is an all out war in Canada.



Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oaknut

Funny that, the letter from the doctor.

I was on a call with my doctor today and they said they would take it if forced but not otherwise. They recommended watching Britain closely to see what sort of fallout will occur.

There's a big difference between going for a drive in a car and jumping out in front of one.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

---

Seems like a sensible doctor lol.

The media is saying today you may need a vaccine to open the movie theaters .

It sounds like they are just putting more fear into the public. Take it or you will be stuck at home with limited choice in life.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

It's confirmed that the province will me issuing a 'Proof of Vaccination' cards... so they will be trying to do an end run around your privacy rights. Good the see Privacy lawyers are all over that attempt at forced compliance.

Quote:

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As the provinces anxiously await doses from the country's first vaccine shipment, Ontario is planning to issue some kind of proof-of-vaccination card to those who receive their shots.

"That will be very important for people to have, for travel purposes and perhaps work purposes or going to theatres or cinemas or any other places where people will be in close physical contact when we get through the worst of the pandemic," said Health Minister Christine Elliott on Tuesday.

"So yes, that will be essential for people to have that," she added.

---

Something to ponder: If you've had the vaccine, thereby inoculated, you can't get the virus from someone who didn't get the vaccine. So why are they worried that some people, for what ever reason, wont be participate in the vaccinations. They are not a threat to you.

The only people who will eventually be a threat to each other will be the other people who didn't get the vaccination. They are not a threat to 'public health ' .

Bet it takes less than a 24 hrs for knock off 'Vaccination Cards' to be readily available on line :) Should be able to get you into the movie theatres. :)

Ya MP, but maybe not the hospital.

I know that Jakezilla. I do.
I wasn’t alive back in the 40/50s when polio was a real thing. I’m sure people back then were expressing similar concerns. Was the risk worth it? I know it wasn’t “rushed” as this seems to be. However.

There are certain segments of society that should stay away. Like women in their 20/30s.

Nor would I call myself the kind of person that thinks “science” is infallible. I don’t care to think hard, so will just very quickly mention.
Agent Orange, Asbestos, Margarine, or simply GMOs.

The “risk” to me is small. I might get sick/I might not. I might get Covid too, and I know I don’t want that. The one Drs letter I copied touched on that.

If I get get really really sick. Well I’m at an age where I could die tomorrow from any number of things. What am I afraid of? Not death, I’ll say that much.

If it changes something in my make up. I don’t care. I’ve had my kids, I’ve been snipped, and I’m on borrowed time.

That doesn’t mean I’m fatalistic btw. It’s just life. Like the way my eyesight is failing.

Unless something huge and monstrous comes out in the next couple months I’ll be in line. I’ve got little to lose/lots to gain.

Hopefully that...

I’m ok with the risk. Not ok with either Covid or the economic fallout and waiting for it to all just go away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Ya MP, but maybe not the hospital.

---

A good point...what are they going to do about the 135k in Ont who have had the virus, survived and now have the antibodies....there is no requirement for them to get the inoculation....are they going to get a card to so they can go to the movies too.... :)

And people under 16
And people who have sever allergies
And women who want to get pregnant...

That poor little guy making $12/hr at the door at Cinemax is no where near the pay grade he needs to be to hear peoples medical history...HaHa.

Retroactive? I have a nice card explaining my new hip to any nosy boarder guards. Supposedly I will set off a few alarms.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Ya MP, but maybe not the hospital.

---

refusing service at a Hospital for that would be illegal on many levels...

Na they will put you in a triage tent in the parking lot so you don’t get close to those patients in the hospital.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oaknut

Funny that, the letter from the doctor.

I was on a call with my doctor today and they said they would take it if forced but not otherwise. They recommended watching Britain closely to see what sort of fallout will occur.

There's a big difference between going for a drive in a car and jumping out in front of one.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

---

Funny, exact same conversation with my doctor today as well.
He said that at their last regional meeting there were a lot of questions asked. The micro biologists are in a world of their own. The delivery system used is specific to cancer treatments as an example where the patient as little hope and choice left as an option to extending life. The long term effects are clearly unknown at this time. Everyone taking this new vaccine delivery system is a guinea pig.

I am waiting for the more tried and true traditional vaccine to be made available.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by impact

I am waiting for the more tried and true traditional vaccine to be made available.

---

All pretty much a moot point for at least another year. I'm not in any real need to have a Covid Card to get on a plane or being accosted by some kid at the movie theatre demanding "Your papers, please"

Quote:

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"Your papers, please" (or "Papers, please") is an expression or trope associated with police state functionaries, allegedly popularized in Hollywood movies featuring Nazi Party officials demanding identification from citizens during random stops or at checkpoints.[1] It is a cultural metaphor for life in a police state.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

It's confirmed that the province will me issuing a 'Proof of Vaccination' cards... so they will be trying to do an end run around your privacy rights. Good the see Privacy lawyers are all over that attempt at forced compliance.



Something to ponder: If you've had the vaccine, thereby inoculated, you can't get the virus from someone who didn't get the vaccine. So why are they worried that some people, for what ever reason, wont be participate in the vaccinations. They are not a threat to you.

The only people who will eventually be a threat to each other will be the other people who didn't get the vaccination. They are not a threat to 'public health ' .

Bet it takes less than a 24 hrs for knock off 'Vaccination Cards' to be readily available on line :) Should be able to get you into the movie theatres. :)

---

I read the article as well Mike and we are on the same page. However I got a more sinister feeling about this. An electronic bracelet would not be acceptable.

"Shocked that Elliott, who is also a lawyer, would endorse such an idea, I reached out to her office for confirmation. In a statement, press secretary Alexandra Hilkene said the government is looking at many options for vaccine “tracking and surveillance.

“This includes exploring developing tech-based solutions while also providing for alternative options to ensure equitable access to any potential ‘immunity passport,’” Hilkene said."

Jben

You want to take it for your own reasons which is understandable and you should be free to do so. You agree that there are people that should avoid it, that's common sense. The problem is we are on the slope, sliding down it and picking up speed.

I don't have a real problem with traditional vaccines. That science is as good as it can be. Are there issues with the mercury, maybe, do we over vaccinate, definitely. It looks like there are a couple covid vaccines that are closer to traditional vaccines, but still rushed. I do have a problem with the mRNA experiment and how it is the one being fast tracked through approval and pushed on everyone.

If you look at what MikePal posted, the government is on its way to passing on the "mandatory" part to businesses so the government can say they didn't make it mandatory. Wait until the insurance companies get involved, liability insurance, group health care, etc. Are they going to refuse policies or make the rates uneconomical if everyone on site is not vaccinated? If we get here, do the people who should avoid it, or any of us for that matter, really have a choice? Who's ready to give up their livelihood to avoid a COVID vaccine?

If you care about small business and the economy you need to care about how the government handles this. We can debate whether this is actually a free country or not but if this vaccine business continues on this path we will enter some dangerous territory.

Well.
If we get to that bridge. I’ll burn it then.

Unlike some, I respect other people’s choices. Even if I don’t fully agree/understand.

I really value this thing call choice. Like thinking when we sacrificed during WWII. Every that did, enlisted. The people we are throwing under the bus while others coast through this? How much choice do they have? Are we truly sharing the pain?

Just because I see a small risk to myself, and many others. See the risk of getting Covid as virtually no different. I could get a little sick, a lot sick and Covid could possibly kill me.

I’m not convinced we know the long term effects of that either yet. Certainly we can only guess at the long term effects of the economic fallout. Lol, I’m not sure we were done with 2008 before Covid ( think about the provinces fiscal Shyte house). We are going to feel this, well some people will...for years and years....

no need to repeat too much.

I’d no more want the Feds or Ford telling me I have no choice, and must. Than I’d want to be forced to close my business, lose my job, or home...

My choice is my choice. I really. See it as weighing various risk/rewards profiles. So I’m going to choose a risk.... one im ok with

As it should be

Folks may want to research what Bill Gates vaccines have done to poor countries around the world in Africa and India where he and his products essentially got the boot for the deaths and long term repercussions from his so called vaccines. I have no interest in taking a vaccine from a man who thinks the world is overpopulated and believes in eugenics. These links are just from the first page.

https://journal-neo.org/2020/09/28/g...across-africa/
https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/...roved-vaccines
https://thelogicalindian.com/fact-ch...undation-21270
https://fort-russ.com/2020/04/robert...ssiah-complex/
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/n...y-vaccination/
https://thenewamerican.com/bill-gate...an-parliament/

I already have an international immunization card and adding another vaccine isn't a problem if it means I can take a plane, visit another country, attend a sporting event, go to the movies, etc. Those more concerned about their privacy are welcome to stay out of those places where proof of immunization may be required.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

I already have an international immunization card and adding another vaccine isn't a problem if it means I can take a plane, visit another country, attend a sporting event, go to the movies, etc. Those more concerned about their privacy are welcome to stay out of those places where proof of immunization may be required.

---

Well good boy.....

"Pavlovian theory is a learning procedure that involves pairing a stimulus with a conditioned response. In the famous experiments that Ivan Pavlov conducted with his dogs, Pavlov found that objects or events could trigger a conditioned response. ... As he gave food to the dogs, he rang the bell"..


Its called ...Classical Conditioning ....'Get a shot and you can go to the movies' ....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Well good boy.....

"Pavlovian theory is a learning procedure that involves pairing a stimulus with a conditioned response. In the famous experiments that Ivan Pavlov conducted with his dogs, Pavlov found that objects or events could trigger a conditioned response. ... As he gave food to the dogs, he rang the bell"..


Its called ...Classical Conditioning ....'Get a shot and you can go to the movies' ....

---

Should proof of immunization be required it will be no different than needing a police check to be a coach in organized hockey. It is a condition society requires to engage in certain activities. A PAL, drivers license, hunting license are other examples.

The other advantage of proof of immunization requirements is fewer anti-vaxx kooks circulating in public places. A public health benefit and not having to rub shoulders with imbeciles. It's a twofer!

Don't get too excited about getting the vaccine and immunisation passport.
Big brother will still consider you as a potential carrier and continue to impose restrictions on you.
So, until every last one of us educated procrastinators gets the vaccine you will not be free to go as you please.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...ined-1.5828321

Will the vaccine prevent me from transmitting the coronavirus to my loved ones?

It's not clear. While it's almost certain being vaccinated will prevent you from getting sick, there is no conclusive evidence to date proving it will prevent you from transmitting the virus to others.

"If I'm vaccinated, it might mean I'm protected against symptomatic disease and severe disease. It doesn't mean I'm necessarily protected against all types of infection, including asymptomatic infection for which I could have viral shedding," said Quach-Thanh.

Will I still have to wear a mask once I'm vaccinated?

The short answer is yes, at least for now, for the same reason as above: we don't know if the vaccine will prevent you from transmitting the virus to others.

"It will only be as effective as the number of people who take it," said Dr. Donald Vinh, an infectious diseases specialist at the McGill University Health Centre in Montreal.

Because COVID-19 can be spread by people who are asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic, personal protective equipment and other measures remain essential in a world where the vaccine may or may not prevent transmission.

I love this from that link Impact:

Quote:

---

As Dr. Caroline Quach-Thanh, an infectious disease specialist from the CHU-Sainte Justine and Université de Montréal who chairs the national advisory committee on immunizations, told CBC News recently: "To me, the overall goal of this vaccination program is not herd immunity, it's individual protection of those who are vulnerable and those who need to be protected."

---

So its' "all about me"...not what is best for society...HaHa,,

Based on this statement:

Quote:

---

Will the vaccine prevent me from transmitting the coronavirus to my loved ones?
It's not clear. While it's almost certain being vaccinated will prevent you from getting sick, there is no conclusive evidence to date proving it will prevent you from transmitting the virus to others.

---

So they have not proven that it prevents you from spreading the virus, so you will still have to wear a mask and social distance after you have received the vaccine. . So we are no better off than we are now, ergo it doesn't matter if you have the vaccine or not when in public places like a movie theatre.

So how can they enforce a requirement for vaccination if it really doesn't lesson the threat to public safety ? ..it only prevents you from getting sick ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

I love this from that link Impact:



So its' "all about me"...not what is best for society...HaHa,,

Based on this statement:



So they have not proven that it prevents you from spreading the virus, so you will still have to wear a mask and social distance after you have received the vaccine. . So we are no better off than we are now, ergo it doesn't matter if you have the vaccine or not when in public places like a movie theatre.

So how can they enforce a requirement for vaccination if it really doesn't lesson the threat to public safety ? ..it only prevents you from getting sick ?

---

So there you have it. Nothing but a political agenda isn't it......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Badenoch

I already have an international immunization card and adding another vaccine isn't a problem if it means I can take a plane, visit another country, attend a sporting event, go to the movies, etc. Those more concerned about their privacy are welcome to stay out of those places where proof of immunization may be required.

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And the government can get along without my tax money - if it comes to that.
I "pay to play" through my taxes - and as a small business owner I pay A LOT of taxes each year.
They cannot restrict me in participating in a society that I FUND.
And if they do, no taxes for them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I love this from that link Impact:



So its' "all about me"...not what is best for society...HaHa,,

Based on this statement:



So they have not proven that it prevents you from spreading the virus, so you will still have to wear a mask and social distance after you have received the vaccine. . So we are no better off than we are now, ergo it doesn't matter if you have the vaccine or not when in public places like a movie theatre.

So how can they enforce a requirement for vaccination if it really doesn't lesson the threat to public safety ? ..it only prevents you from getting sick ?

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Because it isn't about the virus - it's about the vaccine.
All the fear for the last 10+ months has been pointing towards the vaccine. "we can't go back to normal until we have a vaccine" - how many times have we been told that?
They want you to take it no matter what. It isn't about your health - it's about becoming a GMO human.
I can post a link to a video where Bill Gates describes how the vaccine will alter your DNA/RNA.
No thanks.
I'll take what God has given me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by old outdoorsman

I'll take what God has given me.

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Any time someone mentions God and letting him decide makes me laugh out loud, a really deep, heavy laugh.

If you broke your arm or leg then we should not set it, let God decide. If you get a fever then you should not take meds, let God decide. If you get sick and need a ventilator, nope, let God decide.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by old outdoorsman

And the government can get along without my tax money - if it comes to that.
I "pay to play" through my taxes - and as a small business owner I pay A LOT of taxes each year.
They cannot restrict me in participating in a society that I FUND.
And if they do, no taxes for them.

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Actually they can and do restrict you in a variety of ways. You can't legally drive on the highways you pay for without a license and insurance. You can't legally operate your business without a tax registration. You can't board a commercial aircraft without ID. You can't legally own a firearm without a license. It's a fairly long list.

And should you plan to withhold your taxes as some sort of feeble protest you will get a personal lesson on just what the government can do to you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Well good boy.....

"Pavlovian theory is a learning procedure that involves pairing a stimulus with a conditioned response. In the famous experiments that Ivan Pavlov conducted with his dogs, Pavlov found that objects or events could trigger a conditioned response. ... As he gave food to the dogs, he rang the bell"..


Its called ...Classical Conditioning ....'Get a shot and you can go to the movies' ....

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Sheeple are easier to condition than dogs...lol

Like when I mention........ 'Conservatives,' .......and a group of you guys run for the bell. Conditioned much? Lol.

You are ignorant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Actually they can and do restrict you in a variety of ways. You can't legally drive on the highways you pay for without a license and insurance. You can't legally operate your business without a tax registration. You can't board a commercial aircraft without ID. You can't legally own a firearm without a license. It's a fairly long list.

And should you plan to withhold your taxes as some sort of feeble protest you will get a personal lesson on just what the government can do to you.

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I also pay for those privileges.
Sorry shill. You need to flog your BS elsewhere.
"My body, my choice" right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fox

Any time someone mentions God and letting him decide makes me laugh out loud, a really deep, heavy laugh.

If you broke your arm or leg then we should not set it, let God decide. If you get a fever then you should not take meds, let God decide. If you get sick and need a ventilator, nope, let God decide.

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You are an ignorant person.
A virus that has a 99% survival rate and they are flogging a vaccine that is 95% 'effective' that will change your DNA/RNA forever.
Like I said - by all means you do what you want to do, and I will do what I want to do.
The vaccine isn't about your health, but you are too ignorant to know that.

When people say that, do they really believe that it is about, controlling the world? Harvesting DNA? Altering people’s DNA on purpose? In what way, and for what reason? I don't understand what you think the ‘real ‘ purpose is. Why? Who? How? Rationally.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by old outdoorsman

I also pay for those privileges.
Sorry shill. You need to flog your BS elsewhere.
"My body, my choice" right?

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Absolutely right. You get to decide what's put in it. There are limitations however on where you can go and what you can do with said body should you wish to be part of the broader society in which you live.