Think this will take off? Could be a slippery slope
https://landpassinc.com/properties/
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Think this will take off? Could be a slippery slope
https://landpassinc.com/properties/
That's a lot of money to pay for land you won't be scouting and somebody else could have blown out the day before. But then again maybe they will lighten a few wallets with the idea.
Yes, I think it will take off. The fact is, some people don't have access to private land to hunt. This type of stuff is already going on all over the place with "outfitters" and guides, and people with money are willing to pay. Lots of landowners are struggling to make ends meet, and they will see this as an easy way to make some money.
The property I hunt almost went in a similar direction right in the middle of the deer season in the fall. I was told I would still be allowed to hunt there without being subject to the new arrangements, but who wants to hunt a property with a bunch of unknown people who change everytime you are there? I would have left. It made for a stressful hunting season for me. Luckily the "outfitters" changed their minds at the last minute, but I have a feeling the story is not over.
I explained to the landowner what would end up happening if he let these guys on the property, but when someone really needs the money, they are willing to do almost anything.
How is $50 a head considered 'a lot' of money ? ...$250 for weekend doesn't say each..Quote:
Originally Posted by dean.f
I guess it's all a matter of perspective.
I can see this happening with all the crown land being transferred to the aboriginals as part of the land claim settlements.
I already had a confrontation last fall and when I informed the rude person that I was calling MNR and OPP he backed down but said I could hunt there "for now"....
I'm betting it is "each". The info about the number per day is just to assure people that there won't be a ton of people at once.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
This has been going on for decades. We used to have lots of good goose fields to shoot around Lindsay. You'd just go ask the farmer for permission. Then an outfitter got smart and paid the farmer some money to get sole permission to hunt the field. Every cash crop field got paid for and that shut everyone out except the outfitter, who has the good fields to shoot and make money. Pretty smart on their part. You'd have happy clients and the fields wouldn't get overhunted. Give the farmer $200 - 500 cash for sole permission. You'd make that money back from one hunter. Same thing is happening for turkey hunting.
For some, paying for guaranteed access is easier than looking for areas that are free to hunt.
Up in Unit 10, leasing a hunting rights on private land is becoming more prevalent. The practice is popular with American hunters and it’s prevalent south of the border.
It's already happening in some areas of southern Ontario. Farmers are really hurting right now,so,if they can make a few bucks from outfitters for permission to allow their clients to hunt,more power to them as long as the landowners clearly understand that once they charge for access,they can be sued and are legally liable if someone gets injured. Charging for access completely negates any liability protection afforded to landowners under The Trespass to Property Act and/or The Occupiers Liability Act. Landowners would be very wise to consult legal advice before entering into any agreement with anyone to allow access under those circumstances. To me,the risks are far too great.Quote:
Originally Posted by LowbanksArcher
I think there's a big difference between charging by the day and charging for permission. I don't really see the value for the customer paying for one day access you'd probably get a better experience by saving your money for a trip with an outfitter who has done the leg work. I can see the advantage to landowners that's for sure. Like I said before, I'm sure there's somebody out there willing to pay.
Game farms come to mind, you pay a fee for access for a day but included in that fee are a specified number of birds released, it's up to you to do the rest, but there's a clear value that I can justify the cost.
Just my opinion, take it for what it is.
Not sure why landowners would want to be at the mercy of whoever "landpass" lets on their land..different set of guys every weekend.
Most landowners are smart enough and would rather deal with people they know and trust, especially in these times..
But you don't have enough friends that you now and trust to make money from. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by kokes
All outfitters know the big money comes from strangers flying in from the US. In fact at these rates, this guy is charging rock bottom prices that Canadians will pay, instead of what he usually gets (Probably closer to $1k ) from his clients that aren't coming this year.
When the landowner accepts money for access their liability becomes far more.
Let them ask their insurance agent.
Sorry Trimmer I did see your earlier post.
Might be a good idea. But I'd rather take my chances on crown land that is nearby these people for free. I bet most of these guys are lying through their teeth or just have a million people hunting there. Mostly people that are paying for this are people that are too lazy to scout public land. I've had people tell me they haven't found a single deer sign in public land that was rich with rubs and fresh trails just half-way in. The ONLY situation I might pay for land to hunt on is if I've seen big bucks on it with my own eyes, and even then that's only if my other bush have no deers.
Scout your bushes people.
I guess it could be is considered a small income stream but I see more issues that what it's worth.
As the land owner what do you do when you have guys that paid to play and think they can do whatever the hell they want on your land - sound hunt/shoot up the place, rut the crap out of it in their quads? The next guy in there will be screwed. What about insurance........you are providing a service and say someone gets hurt. Is the return worth the risk!!??
In Niagara most of the landowners are either anti-hunters (or will not allow hunting on their property), or hunters themselves and/or farmers. I would say that the vast majority of farmers that I know in the Niagara area that have >200 Acres are quite wealthy and would probably say that the headache/risk or leasing out land for pocket change is not worth the hassle.
It is an interesting angle and for some hunters that do not have access (or do not put in the time to get access) to private property this may be an option. But at the end of the day it is a form of prostitution - LOL. You have no idea who was in there before you or what they did.
Personally I would not pay to hunt. I don't seem to have a hard time finding crown or private land, my only problem is getting my in gear.
Seems every farmer I ask give me access to their properties.
how it this much different than outfitters... like the guys on manitoulin who charge 120 a day for room and board and set you up in a treestand?
it would be a tough sell for me to go to one locally when i can make connections with landowners and build relationships, but if i were going up north for a bear hunt and had no idea where to start, it might be alluring to me to pitch a tent with some buddies, hunt in the day and brews at night by the fire...
the idea of it though... especially in southern ontario... is already happening as others have said. i once hunted a spot and across the road was a field. i asked to goose hunt it and the guy said goose and deer were leased to a hunter who had sole rights, but i was welcome to go frog gigging during july to september. land permission is getting harder and harder especially near the bigger cities... which is why its such a bummer to see more ideas like this take off.
X2. Thus is one of the main reasons I hunt. I have no problem driving 3-5 hours to do just that. I really don't understand why anyone else would,either,with vast areas of Crown land being 2 hours north of the "big smoke". Each to their own,I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by punkrockerpj
Would it be the landowner or outfitter that's liable? I would assume outfitter as the hunter hired the outfitter for the service/access
Just curious...
Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
That's why they have you sign waivers....AND for the most part, to be liable, they would have to prove that you put them in danger..ie a stand that was rotten thru.Quote:
Originally Posted by FISH-ON
I asked my agent when I had a crew come paint my roof...he falls off too bad...unless it was because my roof was faulty.
Landowners have dozens of trespassers every year anyway, might as well get paid for random people on your land.Quote:
Originally Posted by kokes
Not sure if they still advertise in OOD - but woods and waters used to let you join for $1000 per year and hunt several different properties.
But I heard negative reports about the properties - hard to book access to and heavily hunted.
https://www.woodsandwaterontario.com/contact
It must be beef or pork or cash croppers hurting. Dairy and Poultry always make money
Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
The landowner signed the contract with the outfitter where it's spelled out clearly that the outfitter would be putting hunters on the land for a fee. That leaves the landowner 100% liable to both parties,not just the hunters.Quote:
Originally Posted by FISH-ON
A decent lawyer can poke all kinds of holes in any agreement, and even if the landowner wins he still has the hassle and cost of defense. Only he can decide of the risk is worth the reward.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Just saying the guys I know in Niagara would not touch this with a 10' pole, as they have too much to loose.
Price of Beans is very high now, I don't think cash crop farmers are hurtingQuote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
That's an absolute fact. Two of the four farms I have permission to hunt are owned by "gentlemen farmers" (a lawyer and an accountant). They have no problem granting permission for myself and one of the boys to hunt because they know they're covered for liability through the Occupiers Liability Act,notwithstanding that I have my own liability insurance,too. All four of them have declined local outfitter's offers,assuring them that they need not inquire,again.Quote:
Originally Posted by 410001661
It's been going on for years. Werner linked Woods and Waters. Personally, though I doubt it will happen in my lifetime, I suspect a lot of land will be "locked up" like this. Wheres it's pay to play either through something like this or outfitters. The closer to the GTA the land is, the faster it's going to get locked up. Capitalism at it's finest :) Most of those properties are within 1 hr of the GTA.
Would I?
No, for a handful of reasons. But everyone is different. A lot of people work long hours, have kids to take to hockey/football/dance etc. Doesn't leave a lot of time for scouting, making good with landowners, especially if you live 45 minutes or an hour away. So I can see the draw, especially if filling a tag, while desirable. isn't the be all and end all. As for public land, I avoid such places like the plague. When I go out, I like the solitude and quiet. Like the fact I won't have to contend with 5, 20, or 1 other person, who may or may not bust my hunt, or more.
Would I if I was a landowner?
Nope, wouldn't want the hassle or potential lawsuit. I'd let 2 or 5 guys hunt my land. Help me police it. And if they couldnt work things out amongst themselves I'd find 2-5 that could.
I think what GW is referring to is that farmers that have quotas (Dairy, Poultry) are much more immune to the market price fluxuations than farmers that are dealing with the open market such as pork or cash cropping. My buddy is a decent size poultry farmer and last year he was just too busy to plant to he left his 300 acres in fallow.Quote:
Originally Posted by crayfish
If they have any left to sell yes the price is high. Same as corn. The trick is to have some left to sell whether that is the elevator (have to pay storage though) or at home.Quote:
Originally Posted by crayfish
High prices cure high prices.
Lots of standing corn around here still.....winter drying.
It says "spear hunting" available?
WTF
There's not much difference between this and the upland game preserves where shooters can pay to play or in a higher snack bracket clubs like Griffith Island where the well-heeled have their own private hunting grounds.
I agree in some ways been going on for years, pay to play. Try to find a good field to hunt ducks, all rented out to mostly wealthy. Pheasant farms are pretty much the same. Where I have permission you could say I pay, the farm i hunt I bake lots of stuff several times a year, give several pounds of fish. The property owner i hunt I help with cleaning the bush 4 or 5 times a year, give him venison roast, fish, canned goods. So if I figured it all out the cost would be high, but I enjoy it and so do they, so it is a wash.
I know a lot of property around the Long Point area gets leased out to outfitters. One guy I know paid 1500 bucks for a field , mind you it was in an excellent area. He made money the first year but the second year the birds didn't show and he lost... big time. I hunt my own property and sometimes let friends in but that's it.
I can see lots of landowners taking advantage of new hunters that don't know they have better options. I've seen it plenty of times, desperate new hunters dishing out hundreds for properties that are overhunted and empty.
The price gouging on that website is ridiculous, $300/day?? Most of these lands are not far from crown land to begin with and they have the rates of a 5 star outfitter. Not only are you saving money on ANY other option but you have much better chances on success...
It wasn't once called THE SPORT OF KINGS for nothing.
Wasn't that for horse racing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
Later in history.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21