Do you pursue a wounded animal even if it means trespassing?

Last winter I noted some markers and footprints on trails in our bush lot. Break-ins are frequent in rural Ontario so we kept a heightened vigilance until a note arrived in the mail box. It was from a hunter who was bow hunting on an adjacent property, made a less than optimal shot and explained he was on our land trying to track the animal. He left his name and contact information, we exchanged emails and I assured him that I understood the situation and appreciated him leaving the note.

Had I spotted this guy on the property he would have been reported. I've done it before with trespassers and will do it again.

I'm of mixed views between the ethical obligation to pursue a wounded animal and the respect required for people's private property particularly because there is not universal support for hunting in our area. I've never been put in the position of having to decide.

What would you do if it happened to you? From either side of the equation.

I have caught guys trying to walk into one of our farms stating they are perusing a wounded animal - I always turn them around and tell them to contact the landowner BEFORE setting foot on his property.

We have hunted this area for the last 14 years and know the other hunters in the area and farms that do not allow hunting so it is easy to ask a couple of questions to see if they are being truthful - where are you hunting, who's farm are you hunting on, what direction was the animal traveling, when did you last see the animal?

Kudos to the guy for leaving the note. Obviously he tried to get permission. If we have a wounded animal go on property we have not gotten permission for, we always check and ask permission.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Last winter I noted some markers and footprints on trails in our bush lot. Break-ins are frequent in rural Ontario so we kept a heightened vigilance until a note arrived in the mail box. It was from a hunter who was bow hunting on an adjacent property, made a less than optimal shot and explained he was on our land trying to track the animal. He left his name and contact information, we exchanged emails and I assured him that I understood the situation and appreciated him leaving the note.

Had I spotted this guy on the property he would have been reported. I've done it before with trespassers and will do it again.

I'm of mixed views between the ethical obligation to pursue a wounded animal and the respect required for people's private property particularly because there is not universal support for hunting in our area. I've never been put in the position of having to decide.

What would you do if it happened to you? From either side of the equation.

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I would do exactly what the hunter did after attempting to contact with negative result and exactly what you did. It shows wisdom,common sense and decency. Win,win.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Last winter I noted some markers and footprints on trails in our bush lot. Break-ins are frequent in rural Ontario so we kept a heightened vigilance until a note arrived in the mail box. It was from a hunter who was bow hunting on an adjacent property, made a less than optimal shot and explained he was on our land trying to track the animal. He left his name and contact information, we exchanged emails and I assured him that I understood the situation and appreciated him leaving the note.

Had I spotted this guy on the property he would have been reported. I've done it before with trespassers and will do it again.

I'm of mixed views between the ethical obligation to pursue a wounded animal and the respect required for people's private property particularly because there is not universal support for hunting in our area. I've never been put in the position of having to decide.

What would you do if it happened to you? From either side of the equation.

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I think the problem with your scenario as you have explained it was that the hunter had already trespassed. Did he explain in his note that he had tried to contact you PRIOR to looking for the animal? If not I think this would have been the right thing to do. What he/she has done by leaving the note is to have covered their ----- in case of fall out, like getting caught on a trail camera.

With all that said its pretty hard to locate owners of some properties especially "on the day in question". A prudent hunter could always locate adjacent land owners PRIOR to the hunt season, suggest this could be a possible scenario in a bow hunt
and ask permission right then. If you get a written permission from the landowner to enter the land in that event so much the better.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I think the problem with your scenario as you have explained it was that the hunter had already trespassed. Did he explain in his note that he had tried to contact you PRIOR to looking for the animal? If not I think this would have been the right thing to do. What he/she has done by leaving the note is to have covered their ----- in case of fall out, like getting caught on a trail camera.

With all that said its pretty hard to locate owners of some properties especially "on the day in question". A prudent hunter could always locate adjacent land owners PRIOR to the hunt season, suggest this could be a possible scenario in a bow hunt and ask permission right then. If you get a written permission from the landowner to enter the land in that event so much the better.

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What he did was the second best thing and I appreciate him making the effort. He was honest and upfront about what he did.

I'd be hesitant to give permission of any sort in advance as it might be interpreted as permission to hunt instead of just to retrieve wounded animals.

I have done this before. If there was someone to ask we would have. Nowhere nearby to knock at and no easy way to find landowner. Deer had a sparse blood trail and exited the property we where shotgun hunting. Trespassing Is a pretty small deal verses an unrecovered animal In my ethical opinion. I don’t ever trespass to hunt as it’s not ethical to me. However, if an animal is wounded and there is no one to ask permission of, my personal morals dictate that I attempt recovery even if it opens me up to other issues. Your morals and values may be different. As always in life, when people take a course of action, they must be prepared to deal with potential consequences. We certainly where.

If you are hunting a new property, it is important to know the property lines, whether they be fences, rivers or tree lines and hunt accordingly. Hunting 20 feet from the line of a 100 acre property might just end up with a deer crossing onto someone elses' property that they are hunting.
Knowing your neighbors beforehand is important and could save some legal issues down the road, as well might head off some uneccesary bad blood arising out of an avoidable altercation, especially if you ruin someones hunt.
In the end you are trespassing, even if in hot pursuit of a wounded animal, so try to get permission before the hunt if possible and hope you never need it.
You never know, you might be able to work together on drives or even end up with more land to hunt.
John

Impossible to answer the question, it would depend on many things at the time.

For those who want permission to pursue a wounded animal on an adjacent property what do you do if the landowner declines? Still go after it anyway?

There are times it is better to seek forgiveness than ask permission.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

For those who want permission to pursue a wounded animal on an adjacent property what do you do if the landowner declines? Still go after it anyway?

There are times it is better to seek forgiveness than ask permission.

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Have never had that happen......yet !

This is a fundamental flaw in our system, and no one bothers to use a common sense to fix it to everyone's satisfaction.

If the hunter has to do all reasonable effort to retrieve the wounded animal-WHY the government do not give tools to the hunters to do it?

One tool would be a call in number:-i am here ,side road this and that.I have to enter this property for the purpose of retrieving a wounded animal 'this or that'shot here or there,this way or that way.I will be with 1-2 -3 other hunters.We are entering the 'south' side ,and have intention to be out by ... Name ,licence number etc.
Then if something happens-it is on the hunter,if the owner has complaints-there is a name to go after-if the owner meets them-they are in clear,as long as they abide by rules.

Kind of a limited ,one time" limited right to enter "permit.
I would be all for ,even if they would charge a common fee-like for administration and insurance purposes.

Privilege-so no one can abuse it-if you do-you are done for a life with it.

Then RAISE HUGE the "trespassing to hunt" penalties or suspend the licence for 1 -2 seasons for any trespasser.


We are allowed to do similar call in thing for roadkill..........

Easy-simple.
I do not expect miracles and agreement -but anything else is just going away from real world, and sticking our head in the sand.

If you get shutdown from the land owner call in the MNR they will help you out

MNRF can’t give you permission to trespass. If landowner don’t want you on his property, there’s nothing you can do about it.
Best for you to figure this out before the shot.

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Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

MNRF can’t give you permission to trespass. If landowner don’t want you on his property, there’s nothing you can do about it.
Best for you to figure this out before the shot.

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Yup thats right. Land owner has finally say. We even had MNR talk to land owner and ask if just HE could go retrieve. (We seen the deer go down)

But nope, land owner ended up burying it with skidsteer and now hates us even more. Here we thought we would get on his good side by asking instead of trespassing, But in hind sight it would have better to trespass and retrieve it. Hell, even tell him we trespassed and take the fine would have been better LOL

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

I think the prudent thing to do, is get permission prior to the hunt. I'm fortunate in that I have exclusive permission for a couple of properties, but I also have permission from adjoining landowners to "retrieve" a wounded (or dead) deer that may run onto their land. I've gone so far, when asking that permission, to explain to them that my going onto their property to retrieve, is basically "hunting". If you can't see the animal laying there dead, you would be considered "hunting" when you go search for it. Explain that to the JP? If a person does not have prior permission, then a note just won't cut it and you could very well be charged.

One of our group is a local farmer who knows everybody in the area. Although we can’t get permission to hunt everywhere, he could probably get permission to retrieve game if required. Thankfully, this has only happened once in 30 years,

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Originally Posted by diverduck

I have done this before. If there was someone to ask we would have. Nowhere nearby to knock at and no easy way to find landowner. Deer had a sparse blood trail and exited the property we where shotgun hunting. Trespassing Is a pretty small deal verses an unrecovered animal In my ethical opinion. I don’t ever trespass to hunt as it’s not ethical to me. However, if an animal is wounded and there is no one to ask permission of, my personal morals dictate that I attempt recovery even if it opens me up to other issues. Your morals and values may be different. As always in life, when people take a course of action, they must be prepared to deal with potential consequences. We certainly where.

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"Trespassing Is a pretty small deal verses an unrecovered animal In my ethical opinion."

Here is a thought to consider, you track a wound animal on to private property that is being hunted. Nobody expects your presence there, so you are actually putting yourself in the line of fire of other hunters. If you make enough noise it is possible they may pick up the fact that your movements are that a hunter crashing through the bush and not game, and hopefully they have absorbed enough hunting ethics to clear identify their game before they start shooting. Otherwise your unrecovered animal may end up being you.

You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

This is a grey area in my opinion and a balance must be struck with the law that says that you must make every effort to recover game and respecting landowner property rights.

If an animal runs and expires 10 feet from the property line boundary, who is in reality going to to through all that trouble? Also do landowners really want abandoned dead animals on their land in this situation? I know I would not - get your animal out!. On the other hand, if the animal runs and expires deep behind the property line or for example behind the landowner's house or barn, It makes sense that one would need to talk to the owner before attempting a recovery.

If in any doubt on a situation like this, call the MNR and they will help.

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Originally Posted by Ahuntr300

This is a grey area in my opinion and a balance must be struck with the law that says that you must make every effort to recover game and respecting landowner property rights.

If an animal runs and expires 10 feet from the property line boundary, who is in reality going to to through all that trouble? Also do landowners really want abandoned dead animals on their land in this situation? I know I would not - get your animal out!. On the other hand, if the animal runs and expires deep behind the property line or for example behind the landowner's house or barn, It makes sense that one would need to talk to the owner before attempting a recovery.

If in any doubt on a situation like this, call the MNR and they will help.

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I wouldn't be too concern about a hunter abandoning the pursuit of a wound animal that finds it way on my property, in nature nothing is wasted. I once came across the spinal column and a bit of the pelvic girdle that the coyotes left after cleaning the rest of the deer. I suspect no effort was ever made to even track it. Some hunter probably peppered a bunch of shots at it and figure he missed.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut.

If permission to retrieve an animal is denied by the landowner to you as well as an MNR Officer, and the animal is expired in sight, can the landowner not be charged with letting a game animal spoil? Just what I had read somewhere, not sure if it is at all true.
John

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Originally Posted by johnjyb

If permission to retrieve an animal is denied by the landowner to you as well as an MNR Officer, and the animal is expired in sight, can the landowner not be charged with letting a game animal spoil? Just what I had read somewhere, not sure if it is at all true.
John

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No. The landowner had no part in killing it. It would be the same as if it was hit by a car and expired on their property - they aren't responsible for it

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Originally Posted by gbk

This is a fundamental flaw in our system, and no one bothers to use a common sense to fix it to everyone's satisfaction.

If the hunter has to do all reasonable effort to retrieve the wounded animal-WHY the government do not give tools to the hunters to do it?

One tool would be a call in number:-i am here ,side road this and that.I have to enter this property for the purpose of retrieving a wounded animal 'this or that'shot here or there,this way or that way.I will be with 1-2 -3 other hunters.We are entering the 'south' side ,and have intention to be out by ... Name ,licence number etc.
Then if something happens-it is on the hunter,if the owner has complaints-there is a name to go after-if the owner meets them-they are in clear,as long as they abide by rules.

Kind of a limited ,one time" limited right to enter "permit.
I would be all for ,even if they would charge a common fee-like for administration and insurance purposes.

Privilege-so no one can abuse it-if you do-you are done for a life with it.

Then RAISE HUGE the "trespassing to hunt" penalties or suspend the licence for 1 -2 seasons for any trespasser.


We are allowed to do similar call in thing for roadkill..........

Easy-simple.
I do not expect miracles and agreement -but anything else is just going away from real world, and sticking our head in the sand.

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Because it's really not that simple. Youre talking about letting the government give permission for any random hunter to trespass and search a property. Think about the liability that would entail. It's far from simple. You're also not allowed to trespass to get roadkill

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Originally Posted by diverduck

I have done this before. If there was someone to ask we would have. Nowhere nearby to knock at and no easy way to find landowner. Deer had a sparse blood trail and exited the property we where shotgun hunting. Trespassing Is a pretty small deal verses an unrecovered animal In my ethical opinion. I don’t ever trespass to hunt as it’s not ethical to me. However, if an animal is wounded and there is no one to ask permission of, my personal morals dictate that I attempt recovery even if it opens me up to other issues. Your morals and values may be different. As always in life, when people take a course of action, they must be prepared to deal with potential consequences. We certainly where.

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That about sums it up for me too. It's hard to ask permission if it's a late night recovery. I have permission to hunt one property and I'm reluctant to ask the adjacent neighbor about recovery because I might be opening up my permissioned landowner to ridicule from a NON-hunting neighbor. It's so easy to frig up your permission.

That definitely shows 1 very good reason why it can be left there Saber. Kinda leaves it up to the hunter to retrieve and beg forgiveness instead of permission from a moral standpoint. Luckily, this would not be a common occurance in Ontario, at least right now.
John

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

I wouldn't be too concern about a hunter abandoning the pursuit of a wound animal that finds it way on my property, in nature nothing is wasted. I once came across the spinal column and a bit of the pelvic girdle that the coyotes left after cleaning the rest of the deer. I suspect no effort was ever made to even track it. Some hunter probably peppered a bunch of shots at it and figure he missed.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut.

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In reality this is not a cut and dry answer. This happened to us 2 years ago during a controlled hunt. We had 4 guys in one large bush lot in tree stands for a morning hunt. We heard some shots on opening morning and which is normal in this area. At about 9:30AM I saw two hunters cross the hedgerow walk across the field and into the bush when they spotted me. I asked them WTF are they doing trespassing. They said they are looking for a wounded deer. I told them to go back and call the landowner (they had his number and he will answer when he is done hunting). I did not see it but another hunter from their group walked around and in from the north and ran into the farmer who lost it him.

By the time I walked over everyone was there. The farmer was pissed for the simple reason - respect. The other guys knew we were hunting that morning and made a conscious decision to walk in and screw our hunt up to recover the deer they thought may have wandered over here. He explained that he does get that much opportunity to hunt and that mornings are best because he will probably be on the combine in the afternoon once the dew dries up. If they had called or sent him a text he would have allowed them to look for the deer and hell......would have helped in the search after we were done hunting but the way they handled it was wrong. Respect and common courtesy goes a long way when there people are hunting the same week in the same area.

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Originally Posted by blasted_saber

Because it's really not that simple. Youre talking about letting the government give permission for any random hunter to trespass and search a property. Think about the liability that would entail. It's far from simple. You're also not allowed to trespass to get roadkill

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Hi blasted saber-i know it would not be simple-hovewer,if we ignore this problem ,we are just sticking our head in the sand.
Liability can be resolved too(i made some suggestions).

If there is a will -there is a way.
The Governement seems to cater to no one,and leaving this issue to: if happens-if it is reported-if it will be an issue-we will deal with it.
Solves nothing.

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Originally Posted by blasted_saber

Because it's really not that simple. Youre talking about letting the government give permission for any random hunter to trespass and search a property. Think about the liability that would entail. It's far from simple. You're also not allowed to trespass to get roadkill

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Agree with you. An sort of thoughts towards this would have to involve a government agent going in to retrieve the deer (police, CO, etc) - not the hunter. Someone that is going to accept 100% responsibility for anything that happens to them and also responsibility for any damage they do. I can't see that happening.

If I had an email address I would email the Ask a CO and get an answer to this question

I would like to add the common sense must be used by some hunters. I have a few neighbors up my way that are on 10 acre lots.

This would seem to be reasonable to hunt but is it really? Their frontage is about 130feet wide and they are then onto their neighbors property if a deer runs north or south .So not big enough to hunt without some problems.

It's an interesting topic. I've gotten permission from all my neighbors to retrieve game on their properties. But no one has ever asked me about retrieving game on our farms. I think everyone just assumes it's no big deal and does it anyways. I've actually found the pealed off backings from the old sticky deer tags on my property. But that's after shotgun week, when everyone is trespassing anyways

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

If I had an email address I would email the Ask a CO and get an answer to this question

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There is nothing to ask. You can’t trespass to retrieve game. It boils down to if your willing to accept the potential consequences. For me, I would make every effort to obtain permission. If I couldn’t (and I’ve been in this exact situation on one occasion) then I’ll do what I have to do and accept the consequences. But there is no way around it your trespassing.

I cannot find it but I remember reading before in the Ask the CO. They said something along the lines of call the CO and they will come out and the owner of the land will have a choice they can allow you to remove the animal or the owner of the land can claim it and the owner must have a license if they do not they would be charged with hunting without a license. Generally the onwer will then allow the hunter to remove the animal.

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Originally Posted by diverduck

There is nothing to ask. You can’t trespass to retrieve game. It boils down to if your willing to accept the potential consequences. For me, I would make every effort to obtain permission. If I couldn’t (and I’ve been in this exact situation on one occasion) then I’ll do what I have to do and accept the consequences. But there is no way around it your trespassing.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

I cannot find it but I remember reading before in the Ask the CO. They said something along the lines of call the CO and they will come out and the owner of the land will have a choice they can allow you to remove the animal or the owner of the land can claim it and the owner must have a license if they do not they would be charged with hunting without a license. Generally the onwer will then allow the hunter to remove the animal.

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The owner of the land won't be charged. They can get a license to possess (the same as a roadkill) and no hunting license is necessary.

I can't believe the amount of people that think a landowner has any legal responsibility or liability here at all. They have none. They can let it rot on their front lawn and theres nothing anyone can do about it.

Personally I don't know I never hunt where I have to worry about it. Some Provinces it does not matter like in NS, you can perfectly well go retrieve and do not need the landowners permission.

Kinda like what Saskatchewan use to be like.

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Originally Posted by blasted_saber

The owner of the land won't be charged. They can get a license to possess (the same as a roadkill) and no hunting license is necessary.

I can't believe the amount of people that think a landowner has any legal responsibility or liability here at all. They have none. They can let it rot on their front lawn and theres nothing anyone can do about it.

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Originally Posted by LowbanksArcher

But that's after shotgun week, when everyone is trespassing anyways

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Lots of bow hunters out there trespassing too

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Personally I don't know I never hunt where I have to worry about it. Some Provinces it does not matter like in NS, you can perfectly well go retrieve and do not need the landowners permission.

Kinda like what Saskatchewan use to be like.

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GW its very nice that you keep telling us about what goes on down in NS but guess what we are here, so their laws do not apply.

If a landowner here is paying taxes and expects some privacy why do you think it proper that you a none tax payer can slip into a property and take a deer off. If that was allowed we would all simply hunt Crown land and not pay property taxes.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I would like to add the common sense must be used by some hunters. I have a few neighbors up my way that are on 10 acre lots.

This would seem to be reasonable to hunt but is it really? Their frontage is about 130feet wide and they are then onto their neighbors property if a deer runs north or south .So not big enough to hunt without some problems.

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Hunters definitely need to use common sense. They should know who the neighbours are, how to contact them, and discuss what to do if a wounded animal ends up on their land. If the landowner won’t grant permission, then the hunter may have to take reasonable and practical steps to ensure wounded wildlife don’t wander onto the neighbour’s land. This might mean not hunting parts or portions of land (maintaining a reasonable distance from the property line), brushing shooting lanes so projectiles are not deflected, using a shooting rest or bipod, limiting shooting situations (standing broadside, < 100m).

The onus is on the hunter to ensure that an animal dies quickly and within a short distance from where hit. Knowing that your neighbour won’t let you retrieve game on his land but hunting anyway is risky. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t do it, but you need to devote some time before hunting to come up with a plan on how not to waste game .

Gilroy can you read, I also said at the beginning that I do not have personal experience and never will as I do not hunt in places where I can be put into that position unless of course the deer runs a km

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

GW its very nice that you keep telling us about what goes on down in NS but guess what we are here, so their laws do not apply.

If a landowner here is paying taxes and expects some privacy why do you think it proper that you a none tax payer can slip into a property and take a deer off. If that was allowed we would all simply hunt Crown land and not pay property taxes.

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However I would hope that any hunter would allow another hunter to at least retrieve his deer etc. I guess I was brought up in a part of Canada where people get along.

Probably why so many people from Ontario moving to NS and NB to retire LOL. There is a large influx. Some reports are they were shocked when neighbors said hi.

I can tell just from your tone I probably would never want you as a Neighbor. Even where I currently live every farmer I have ever met could care less if you skidoo on their property and some were shocked that I asked permission, I thought they were transplants from the Maritime s, turns out they were Dutch.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

GW its very nice that you keep telling us about what goes on down in NS but guess what we are here, so their laws do not apply.

If a landowner here is paying taxes and expects some privacy why do you think it proper that you a none tax payer can slip into a property and take a deer off. If that was allowed we would all simply hunt Crown land and not pay property taxes.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

However I would hope that any hunter would allow another hunter to at least retrieve his deer etc. I guess I was brought up in a part of Canada where people get along.

Probably why so many people from Ontario moving to NS and NB to retire LOL. There is a large influx. Some reports are they were shocked when neighbors said hi.

I can tell just from your tone I probably would never want you as a Neighbor. Even where I currently live every farmer I have ever met could care less if you skidoo on their property and some were shocked that I asked permission, I thought they were transplants from the Maritime s, turns out they were Dutch.

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No you would not want me as a neighbor if you thought you were "entitled" to enter my private property and retrieve a deer just because "down home" they might allow it. There are good reasons folk's don't allow strangers onto their land. One is the Occupiers Liability Act which you should acquaint yourself with and maybe also look at liability under home insurance.

You farmer friend's who allow skidooing on their property might change their minds if somebody get's hurt or killed and they are looking at a multi million dollar law suit.

I have a good friend up north who was sued by a ATV riding lawyer from the GTA who claimed he was hurt on my friends driveway, this stranger has no permission to be there and has sued before and got money settlements in similar circumstance's. My friend went through
years of a process and refused any settlement be issued to this lawyer and the lawyer went away empty handed.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

No you would not want me as a neighbor if you thought you were "entitled" to enter my private property and retrieve a deer just because "down home" they might allow it. There are good reasons folk's don't allow strangers onto their land. One is the Occupiers Liability Act which you should acquaint yourself with and maybe also look at liability under home insurance.

You farmer friend's who allow skidooing on their property might change their minds if somebody get's hurt or killed and they are looking at a multi million dollar law suit.

I have a good friend up north who was sued by a ATV riding lawyer from the GTA who claimed he was hurt on my friends driveway, this stranger has no permission to be there and has sued before and got money settlements in similar circumstance's. My friend went through
years of a process and refused any settlement be issued to this lawyer and the lawyer went away empty handed.

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I'm no lawyer, but there is something strange there.
The OLA is not near so occupier unfriendly as you make it seem.

https://www.canlii.org/en/on/laws/st...1990-c-o2.html



Risks willingly assumed


4 (1) The duty of care provided for in subsection 3 (1) does not apply in respect of risks willingly assumed by the person who enters on the premises, but in that case the occupier owes a duty to the person to not create a danger with the deliberate intent of doing harm or damage to the person or his or her property and to not act with reckless disregard of the presence of the person or his or her property. R.S.O. 1990, c. O.2, s. 4 (1).


Criminal activity
(2) A person who is on premises with the intention of committing, or in the commission of, a criminal act shall be deemed to have willingly assumed all risks and is subject to the duty of care set out in subsection (1). R.S.O. 1990, c. O.2, s. 4 (2).




Trespass and permitted recreational activity


(3) A person who enters premises described in subsection (4) shall be deemed to have willingly assumed all risks and is subject to the duty of care set out in subsection (1),


(a) where the entry is prohibited under the Trespass to Property Act;


(b) where the occupier has posted no notice in respect of entry and has not otherwise expressly permitted entry; or


(c) where the entry is for the purpose of a recreational activity and,


(i) no fee is paid for the entry or activity of the person, other than a benefit or payment received from a government or government agency or a non-profit recreation club or association, and


(ii) the person is not being provided with living accommodation by the occupier. R.S.O. 1990, c. O.2, s. 4 (3).

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

I'm no lawyer, but there is something strange there.
The OLA is not near so occupier unfriendly as you make it seem.

https://www.canlii.org/en/on/laws/st...1990-c-o2.html



Risks willingly assumed


4 (1) The duty of care provided for in subsection 3 (1) does not apply in respect of risks willingly assumed by the person who enters on the premises, but in that case the occupier owes a duty to the person to not create a danger with the deliberate intent of doing harm or damage to the person or his or her property and to not act with reckless disregard of the presence of the person or his or her property. R.S.O. 1990, c. O.2, s. 4 (1).


Criminal activity
(2) A person who is on premises with the intention of committing, or in the commission of, a criminal act shall be deemed to have willingly assumed all risks and is subject to the duty of care set out in subsection (1). R.S.O. 1990, c. O.2, s. 4 (2).




Trespass and permitted recreational activity


(3) A person who enters premises described in subsection (4) shall be deemed to have willingly assumed all risks and is subject to the duty of care set out in subsection (1),


(a) where the entry is prohibited under the Trespass to Property Act;


(b) where the occupier has posted no notice in respect of entry and has not otherwise expressly permitted entry; or


(c) where the entry is for the purpose of a recreational activity and,


(i) no fee is paid for the entry or activity of the person, other than a benefit or payment received from a government or government agency or a non-profit recreation club or association, and


(ii) the person is not being provided with living accommodation by the occupier. R.S.O. 1990, c. O.2, s. 4 (3).

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There was nothing strange about my friend getting sued by a trespassing ATVer.

Why would any landowner take any chance with a stranger entering onto his land and perhaps getting hurt. No upside to this.

ie You allow a hunter with an ATV to enter your land to retrieve a deer, its after dark the said hunter de capitates himself on a barbed wire fence you forgot to mention was in the field, do you not think you might be getting sued by the widow.

In NB we call that the Ontario / US mentality. I have also heard from many people in the Toronto area who would never have a friend help them do construction fear they might get sued.

I guess I come from a kinder and friendlier place, I have never in my life been refused access to a property any place. I guess I just look to friendly.

I remember the first time I asked for permission on the farmer down the road property at first he looked at me like I was from Toronto but then I mentioned I use to Lobster fish in NS, well that changed things pretty fast and I was consider just another country folk.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

No you would not want me as a neighbor if you thought you were "entitled" to enter my private property and retrieve a deer just because "down home" they might allow it. There are good reasons folk's don't allow strangers onto their land. One is the Occupiers Liability Act which you should acquaint yourself with and maybe also look at liability under home insurance.

You farmer friend's who allow skidooing on their property might change their minds if somebody get's hurt or killed and they are looking at a multi million dollar law suit.

I have a good friend up north who was sued by a ATV riding lawyer from the GTA who claimed he was hurt on my friends driveway, this stranger has no permission to be there and has sued before and got money settlements in similar circumstance's. My friend went through
years of a process and refused any settlement be issued to this lawyer and the lawyer went away empty handed.

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I guess that is why so many people from Ontario are moving to NB and NS to be around friendly down to earth people and most are comming from the Toronto region.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

No you would not want me as a neighbor if you thought you were "entitled" to enter my private property and retrieve a deer just because "down home" they might allow it. There are good reasons folk's don't allow strangers onto their land. One is the Occupiers Liability Act which you should acquaint yourself with and maybe also look at liability under home insurance.

You farmer friend's who allow skidooing on their property might change their minds if somebody get's hurt or killed and they are looking at a multi million dollar law suit.

I have a good friend up north who was sued by a ATV riding lawyer from the GTA who claimed he was hurt on my friends driveway, this stranger has no permission to be there and has sued before and got money settlements in similar circumstance's. My friend went through
years of a process and refused any settlement be issued to this lawyer and the lawyer went away empty handed.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

I guess that is why so many people from Ontario are moving to NB and NS to be around friendly down to earth people and most are comming from the Toronto region.

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Not really the attraction of NB and NS are the home and land prices, its just an added bonus the people are nice. I have people moving from Toronto to Bancroft again the price is the determining factor and more so now that they can work from home.

Something I have notice is your Left wing , but if a Left wing idea was to affect you your against it. Funny how Liberals are all for sharing except their own LOL.

I get Skidooers coming through my property and I only have 3/4 of ac, could not care less.

would be nice if they offered my son a spin other that that all is well.

According to the CBC article I had read they found the people friendlier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Not really the attraction of NB and NS are the home and land prices, its just an added bonus the people are nice. I have people moving from Toronto to Bancroft again the price is the determining factor and more so now that they can work from home.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Something I have notice is your Left wing , but if a Left wing idea was to affect you your against it. Funny how Liberals are all for sharing except their own LOL.

I get Skidooers coming through my property and I only have 3/4 of ac, could not care less.

would be nice if they offered my son a spin other that that all is well.

According to the CBC article I had read they found the people friendlier.

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I am a Liberal who does not want to take on any liability with a stranger coming onto my land. Nothing to do with sharing ,maybe you are naïve.?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Something I have notice is your Left wing , but if a Left wing idea was to affect you your against it. Funny how Liberals are all for sharing except their own LOL..

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Don't you mean "wingnut"? Oh well, same thing I guess?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

I get Skidooers coming through my property and I only have 3/4 of ac, could not care less.

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Our local club has a big dinner in the spring and invites all land owners whose property they use to come for a free dinner. You should look into it, great opportunity to meet the neighbours etc.

You mean the Gun Club in Prescott?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Our local club has a big dinner in the spring and invites all land owners whose property they use to come for a free dinner. You should look into it, great opportunity to meet the neighbours etc.

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Don 't get me wrong I don't trespass, I always ask permission to hunt. In fact I go as far as letting neighbors know I will be shooting depending on the situation. However if a deer was to cross the property line it would still depend on the situation. If the landowner was miles away and that deer was say 50 feet maybe 100 feet I might go get it, like I said depends on the situation at the time. I know around here where I live right now If you left a deer to spoil on a farm property because you couldn't get a hold of the person he would call you a dumb and say you shouldn't be allowed to even hunt.

So to blanket coat everything shows how far you are from reality, I think you need to clean the Liberal rose glasses. Not all situations are the same. Only a Liberal would believe that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I am a Liberal who does not want to take on any liability with a stranger coming onto my land. Nothing to do with sharing ,maybe you are naïve.?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

You mean the Gun Club in Prescott?

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Do you mean random users ? I made the assumption it was a local snowmobile club crossing your land...

Kemptville Snowmobile Klub uses a friend's back yard and treat him well for the usage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LowbanksArcher

It's an interesting topic. I've gotten permission from all my neighbors to retrieve game on their properties. But no one has ever asked me about retrieving game on our farms. I think everyone just assumes it's no big deal and does it anyways. I've actually found the pealed off backings from the old sticky deer tags on my property. But that's after shotgun week, when everyone is trespassing anyways

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man aint that the truth eh.

Yeah just random users, not sure who I suspect people in my neighbourhood could be the guy that owns the fields behind me, don't know for sure. Most people around here know I don't care about much as long as you don't take my stuff or damage anything.

My property is only 3/4 ac they use it when they come up from the field behind my house to get onto the road.

If I make a fuss then others will to and it will all go down hill very fast around here.

Heck I drive my ATV across my other neighbours lawn if I need to. Lot's of people use to borrow my tools years ago, most have their own now. Still trying to find out who owns the sander not sure where that came from.

I'm lucky most of the people around here seem to think the same way.

Only complaint I have had is I asked permission to hunt a property from some old farmer near Embrun and never got the chance and when I ran into him in a store he remembered me an asked why I never came to hunt.

I always ask permission not only does that make good friends but maybe I might need to buy something from them. Like there is a guy down by the Winchester Bog he's a welder never know I might need a welder as I cannot weld worth a crap.

The Farmer I use to milk cows for my son works there now and I have access to all his land to cut dead trees on (Wish I wasn't getting so Lazy but did get 4 cords off it this fall and another 10 at another place). Always good to meet new people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Do you mean random users ? I made the assumption it was a local snowmobile club crossing your land...

Kemptville Snowmobile Klub uses a friend's back yard and treat him well for the usage.

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Yeah Mike I would be interested in the dinner, but probably won't be one this year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sam Menard

Hunters definitely need to use common sense. They should know who the neighbours are, how to contact them, and discuss what to do if a wounded animal ends up on their land. If the landowner won’t grant permission, then the hunter may have to take reasonable and practical steps to ensure wounded wildlife don’t wander onto the neighbour’s land. This might mean not hunting parts or portions of land (maintaining a reasonable distance from the property line), brushing shooting lanes so projectiles are not deflected, using a shooting rest or bipod, limiting shooting situations (standing broadside, < 100m).

The onus is on the hunter to ensure that an animal dies quickly and within a short distance from where hit. Knowing that your neighbour won’t let you retrieve game on his land but hunting anyway is risky. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t do it, but you need to devote some time before hunting to come up with a plan on how not to waste game .

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Great post

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fox

Lots of bow hunters out there trespassing too

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Oh i'm sure you're right. I've just never seen it myself, yet. But for the gun weeks in southern Ontario on the other hand, trespassing seems to be an annual tradition. I won't get into details. But both controlled weeks here led to confrontations this year, and some annoyed landowners. Hopefully next year this tradition ends. But we'll see

Attachment 41341

I could post all kinds of trespasser pics - most of them are guys on quads but there is the odd clown on foot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johnjyb

If permission to retrieve an animal is denied by the landowner to you as well as an MNR Officer, and the animal is expired in sight, can the landowner not be charged with letting a game animal spoil? Just what I had read somewhere, not sure if it is at all true.
John

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It was pointed out to me, that farmers can destroy wildlife that is doing crop damage, in some cases they have to consult the MNRF. If they for example kill migratory birds i.e. geese or ducks damaging their crop, they have an obligation to leave them right where they are dropped, there is to be any attempt to harvest them. I think the hope is the down birds so exposed, will act as a warning to other birds to stay away. Again there is no wastage in nature, they will eventually be clean up by other wildlife, or micro-organisms .

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

II think the hope is the down birds so exposed, will act as a warning to other birds to stay away.

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No it's because they don't want the 'shooter' to use the carcass. If you have a deer cull on a Framers property all deer shot are left to die were they lay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

It was pointed out to me, that farmers can destroy wildlife that is doing crop damage, in some cases they have to consult the MNRF. If they for example kill migratory birds i.e. geese or ducks damaging their crop, they have an obligation to leave them right where they are dropped, there is to be any attempt to harvest them. I think the hope is the down birds so exposed, will act as a warning to other birds to stay away. Again there is no wastage in nature, they will eventually be clean up by other wildlife, or micro-organisms .

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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I was on the migratory Kill/Harass list for a local farmer a couple years back, this is incorrect, they no longer force you to leave them, they say that they have to be disposed of as the farmers requests, they can be eaten by the farmer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

No it's because they don't want the 'shooter' to use the carcass. If you have a deer cull on a Framers property all deer shot are left to die were they lay.

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Those rules have changed, the farm just south of Bishops Mills that we chat about had cull tags for deer a number of years back, when the population was high, and they did not make them leave the deer but they did have a fixed number of tags per property and encouraged the shooting of does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fox

Those rules have changed,

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Your right, I see they issue tags now...Thanks for the update:

Quote:

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An authorized farmer or agent shall be in possession of a seal provided with the authorization or be hunting in a party with an authorized person who possesses a seal.
An authorized farmer or agent shall not transfer the seal to a person who is not authorized under the authorization.
Any deer killed shall be sealed immediately at the site of the kill with a seal provided with the authorization and in the manner indicated on the seal. The seal is only valid for the area described on the authorization. The head, bearing the seal, shall remain attached to the animal carcass while it is being transported until butchered or otherwise disposed of. All seals provided with the authorization that are not used shall be submitted to MNR within 15 days of the expiry date of the authorization.
Any deer killed shall be reported within 24 hours to the MNR issuing office. The report may be verbal, voice message, email or in writing. The report shall identify the sex of the animal(s), its disposal, (kept by farmer/agent, or donated to another person), and if donated, the name, address and phone number of the recipient.
The authorized farmer shall record pertinent information including the number and sex of deer taken, the disposal of the animals and the recipients of any meat donated, on a Deer Removal Authorization Report Form as each deer seal is used. This report form shall be submitted within 15 days of the expiry date of the authorization. A report is required even if no deer are taken.
Meat of deer killed under the authorization shall not be donated to food banks, soup kitchens, or to institutions such as senior citizens homes, hospitals, group homes or any similar institution.
Deer taken under the authorization shall not be sold.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Your right, I see they issue tags now...Thanks for the update:

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I thought the same until I was added to the goose license, let me say, it is really weird jumping out of your car and walking towards a flock of geese, essentially trying to get them never to come back and taking some shots at reasonably close birds in the spring. They do destroy a lot of wheat though, especially if there is an area that tends to flood in the spring.

If we ever end up with a massive deer population again I will become an agent for that same farm to take out some extra deer, they still have loses but not nearly what they did back in the early 2000s.

Quote:

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Abandoned and spoiled meat, pelts, etc.
Abandonment of meat
36 (1) A hunter or trapper who kills game wildlife other than a furbearing mammal shall not abandon it if its flesh may become unsuitable for human consumption. 2009, c. 33, Sched. 22, s. 2 (18).

Spoiled flesh
(2) A person who possesses game wildlife that is not a furbearing mammal and that was hunted or trapped shall not permit its flesh to become unsuitable for human consumption. 2009, c. 33, Sched. 22, s. 2 (18).

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Above is the section that applies to spoilage of meat. I think the farmer is off the hook.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fox

I was on the migratory Kill/Harass list for a local farmer a couple years back, this is incorrect, they no longer force you to leave them, they say that they have to be disposed of as the farmers requests, they can be eaten by the farmer.

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Thanks for the update Fox, so when these birds do crop damage on my farm I can now kill them off. You mention something about a migratory Kill/Harass list is it necessary to be on it? Otherwise it would seem to imply there is an open season on these pests so I will no longer need a Migratory Bird License to shoot and eat. That is great news.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

Thanks for the update Fox, so when these birds do crop damage on my farm I can now kill them off. You mention something about a migratory Kill/Harass list is it necessary to be on it? Otherwise it would seem to imply there is an open season on these pests so I will no longer need a Migratory Bird License to shoot and eat. That is great news.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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No, the farmer has to contact the MNRF and get permission to harass or destroy migratory birds, it might also include the federal government. You have to be listed as an agent on the form that allows you to do this. It is a process, not just something anyone can go and do. The same is the case for whitetail deer when they do significant damage.

Just to add to get these permits the MNR will come to your farm and inspect the 'supposed' damage. Some times they will set up cameras, sometime set up large fences/screens to separate out a section and compare it to the surrounding area to see if there is significant crop damage being done. It not as easy as a phone call they ensure the cull activities are warranted.

The only successful one I know of was a strawberry field that was seeing significant loss to deer grazing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Just to add to get these permits the MNR will come to your farm and inspect the 'supposed' damage. Some times they will set up cameras, sometime set up large fences/screens to separate out a section and compare it to the surrounding area to see if there is significant crop damage being done. It not as easy as a phone call they ensure the cull activities are warranted.

The only successful one I know of was a strawberry field that was seeing significant loss to deer grazing.

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A farmer friend back home near Elora had what we claimed as 25% loss due to deer and they said that did not warrant a permit for him.

That farm was the hardest to hunt, he only owned the fields and after Oct 1st the deer would stay in the bush next door, which was no hunting, under well after dark then move to his property to clean up the corn still standing.

I'm not sure how much damage deer do, farm I hunt farmer not to concerned about it. I do wonder about squirrels, I watched at least 20 squirrels cross my shooting lane heading for standing corn and come back 40 min later with a cob of corn. So how many times a day did they do this and how many squirrels that I couldn't see doing this. This happened every time I was there this year. One actually buried one in my lane and then head back. This sounds like a lot of corn at least to me. i hunted another spot in this bush that was 500m away from the corn field and had a squirrel come by with a cob. So maybe deer are getting blamed for stealing corn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sabmgb

This sounds like a lot of corn at least to me. i hunted another spot in this bush that was 500m away from the corn field and had a squirrel come by with a cob. So maybe deer are getting blamed for stealing corn.

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I used to bow hunt over a corn field next door. Used to watch the raccoons, squirrels etc spend the whole evening gathering for the winter. I noticed that they only 'robbed' the stalks that were already on the ground so of no value to the farmer.

I asked the neighbour about it once and he said he lost the first 3-4 rows of corn along a treeline to wildlife feeding. Not worth the paper work and time to claim it. But he did appreciate my efforts to lower the deer population Haha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sabmgb

I'm not sure how much damage deer do, farm I hunt farmer not to concerned about it. I do wonder about squirrels, I watched at least 20 squirrels cross my shooting lane heading for standing corn and come back 40 min later with a cob of corn. So how many times a day did they do this and how many squirrels that I couldn't see doing this. This happened every time I was there this year. One actually buried one in my lane and then head back. This sounds like a lot of corn at least to me. i hunted another spot in this bush that was 500m away from the corn field and had a squirrel come by with a cob. So maybe deer are getting blamed for stealing corn.

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I walked through fields that had chunks knocked down in the middle of the field, when I say a chunk I mean 20 yards x 20 yards or more, knocked down and stripped, only deer tracks, no raccoon tracks in there.

The soy bean fields were worse, the deer would destroy them when they were coming up.

There has to be a lot of evidence to allow them to get these tags, the farmer back home never was given any and had to claim crop insurance every year on the damage. The guy up this way said they were given a bunch of tags for a few years, 1 guy shot 2 deer then while gutting the one another one walked out so he shot it too, I think it was June, when the crops were really just taking off.

This was back at a time when there were 5 additional tags available for any hunters who wanted them. One hunter I know would shoot 6 does a year back in those years, they were like rats. Then the winters of 2003 and 2004 hit and the population plummeted, now we are in the 40% range for antlerless tags.

Up where I hunt, one farmer planted about 80 acres of corn. It was the only field of corn for miles AND miles. Well, the bears got into it and made a mess. The farmer shot 13 bears over a couple of evenings. When they were combining this fall, 4 more bears ran out.

It is up to the hunter to ask permission from the land owner to access the land in search of a wounded animal. If you the land owner deny's his request, it is then up to the hunter to notify the Ministry Of Natural Resources and explain the situation. With that being done the Ministry will contact you the land owner, to help resolve the situation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gks65

It is up to the hunter to ask permission from the land owner to access the land in search of a wounded animal. If you the land owner deny's his request, it is then up to the hunter to notify the Ministry Of Natural Resources and explain the situation. With that being done the Ministry will contact you the land owner, to help resolve the situation.

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They'll definitely assist in negotiating entry. It's important to note that no landowner is under any obligation to allow anyone on their property to retrieve downed game,not even if asked to by the MNRF or other authority. Some landowners are so anti-hunting that they'd rather watch a carcass rot than let a hunter have it. It's sad,but,it happens a lot. I had one friend who was in that predicament. He contacted the occupier who initially refused entry for a couple of days until contacted by MNRF staff. He waited another two days before calling them back giving permission to retrieve. Of course,by then,retrieval was moot because the animal had began to bloat from spoilage. He left the animal to decompose for the occupier to deal with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

They'll definitely assist in negotiating entry. It's important to note that no landowner is under any obligation to allow anyone on their property to retrieve downed game,not even if asked to by the MNRF or other authority. Some landowners are so anti-hunting that they'd rather watch a carcass rot than let a hunter have it. It's sad,but,it happens a lot. I had one friend who was in that predicament. He contacted the occupier who initially refused entry for a couple of days until contacted by MNRF staff. He waited another two days before calling them back giving permission to retrieve. Of course,by then,retrieval was moot because the animal had began to bloat from spoilage. He left the animal to decompose for the occupier to deal with.

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Surprised that it lasted long enough to spoil. A fresh kill around my parts is usually coyote food the first day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Surprised that it lasted long enough to spoil. A fresh kill around my parts is usually coyote food the first day.

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That may very well have happened. Buddy didn't check. He was too PO'd because his tag was cancelled.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

That may very well have happened. Buddy didn't check. He was too PO'd because his tag was cancelled.

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That kinda brings up a interesting point and something that bug's me year on year. You know how every year Moose get killed and are misidentified. The general course is the guy self reports, gets a out of court fine for $400.00 but then gets to keep his tag and hunt the legal animal he/she should have shot resulting in a double harvest and buggering up the management (nor really as they just take the number out for the next year)

So my question would be wrong animal or not should it not be tagged in any event?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

So my question would be wrong animal or not should it not be tagged in any event?

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It would be unlawful to put a tag on an animal which it is not validated for. I think the appropriate question is “Should a hunter continue hunting after mistakenly shooting an animal that he (or his party) is not licensed to hunt?”

As this is an ethical question, I would be surprised if we reached consensus. One could argue that it was a mistake and the hunter paid a fine. Furthermore, it is possible that the MNR was able to salvage the animal so it didn’t go to waste. One could conclude that it would be appropriate for the hunter (or group) to continue hunting.

On the other hand, some may feel that, in addition to the fine, the hunter should voluntarily stop hunting as an animal has been taken. Many outfitters consider a wounded animal as a dead animal and end the client’s hunt. Not exactly the same but close.

Unless it’s mandated, I don’t think many hunters would quit hunting.

Perhaps the officer could seize the tag as evidence that the hunter did not have the correct tag thereby talking the tag out of commission.

Maybe the thinking is...................... If the MNRF take their tag out of the equation (they need to turn it in) they won't make the call about the mistake in the first place?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

So my question would be wrong animal or not should it not be tagged in any event?

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It's always been a bit of a conundrum for me,too. I get that when someone mistakenly takes the wrong gender,they should pay a penalty and lose their tag,one to enforce the law and second,the tag cancellation to account for the animal. In buddy's case,though,the animal was taken under a license legally,but,the animal couldn't be recovered due to the attitude of the landowner which couldn't be circumvented simply because that's the way the law is. I don't agree that under the circumstances,his tag was invalidated through no fault of his own.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

It's always been a bit of a conundrum for me,too. I get that when someone mistakenly takes the wrong gender,they should pay a penalty and lose their tag,one to enforce the law and second,the tag cancellation to account for the animal. In buddy's case,though,the animal was taken under a license legally,but,the animal couldn't be recovered due to the attitude of the landowner which couldn't be circumvented simply because that's the way the law is. I don't agree that under the circumstances,his tag was invalidated through no fault of his own.

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Yes your friend's situation is different for sure. The worse part about mistaken Moose being killed in my opinion is very often its a Cow being mistaken for a calf. So a breeding animal is gone to the food bank with the MNR for disposal and another animal, the calf could be taken if the group keep's hunting. Really screws up any management plan for the WMU. I posted a few years ago that 35 animal's had been taken by mistake in WMU 60 and that was only by the Thursday.

Quote:

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Maybe the thinking is...................... If the MNRF take their tag out of the equation (they need to turn it in) they won't make the call about the mistake in the first place?

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You're probably right. More moose then left in the bush to rot.

My question is how does the land owner know who the trespasser is - unless he personally knows him - it could be anybody - hard to charge someone if you not sure who he is -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

My question is how does the land owner know who the trespasser is - unless he personally knows him - it could be anybody - hard to charge someone if you not sure who he is -

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Maybe for blood samples. Shrugs i don’t know. I have to put my shovel away now

I don't think it is that easy to charge anyone with trespassing - especially a guy who is a veteran in doing that - if I was trespassing on some guy's property and I see someone I just turn around and walk away - what's the owner going to do - chase me

Most of the time now trespassers are getting caught and identified on trail cams!

I'm fairly sure that unless you have crossed obvious proper boundaries like fences and posted land that you have to first get "caught" on the property and informed that it is in fact private land so you can't be charged the first time around. Basically they can't prove you knew the land was private. I definitely recall seeing that posted on more than one thread over the years, at least one here too.

Even if there are signs. fences and what not and a guy goes onto the property - if he sees the owner he just walks back the way he can from - I doubt that the owner will do anything - even if the owner wants to charge the trespasser he doesn't know who he is - most trespassers know enough to have their face covered with a mask or something so the owner can't identify him - I remember years ago I was small game hunting with a friend - we were walking along the side of a hill - down below us was a road and below the road was a field that was posted - we saw two hunters walk through the field - the farmer came out on his back porch and started yelling at the guys - they waved to the farmer and kept walking through the field - I had my car parked on the side of the road - later when I and my buddy got back to the car there was a car parked behind my car and a guy in it - the guys gets out and tells us we are in trouble because the farmer was really pissed and got our license number - we explained what we saw and we were not the guys that walked through the field - so you see how things can happen and it would be very difficult to charge someone with trespassing unless you are absolutely sure you got the right guy - and if the trespasser is smart you ain't find out who he is -