Delta variant has made herd immunity impossible

I mentioned this in a post yesterday...

So keep your mask handy and get ready for another nasty winter.

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The developer of the AstraZeneca shot says the Delta variant has made herd immunity impossible because vaccinated people can still transmit the virus

The Delta variant has changed the equation for achieving herd immunity, the developer of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine has said.

Speaking at a UK parliamentary meeting on Tuesday, Sir Andrew Pollard, a professor of pediatric infection and immunity at the University of Oxford, said that achieving herd immunity is "not a possibility" now that the Delta variant is circulating.

"We know very clearly with coronavirus that this current variant, the Delta variant, will still infect people who have been vaccinated, and that does mean that anyone who's still unvaccinated, at some point, will meet the virus," Pollard said.

He said it was unlikely that herd immunity will ever be reached, saying the next variant of the novel coronavirus will be "perhaps even better at transmitting in vaccinated populations."

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Walensky said CDC investigations have found that the amount of virus present in vaccinated people infected with Delta is similar to the levels found in unvaccinated people with Delta infections. That's an indication that vaccinated people can easily transmit the virus — even though they're less likely to get sick on the whole.

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Proof..!! Ontario's Covid Update for Wed Aug 11:

Ontario reported 324 new cases of COVID-19 and the deaths of three more people with the illness on Wednesday.

According to the Ministry of Health, 234 of the infections, or roughly 72 per cent, were in people who have not been vaccinated against the virus.

Fifty-eight cases, or about 18 per cent were in fully vaccinated individuals, while 32 were people who had only had one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine.

Up a little early today eh Mike? Haha.

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Actually this is my normal time..and why you rarely see any posts from me after 8:00 pm..HaHa.

For the older crowd :)

https://i.imgur.com/ZCmoXxXm.jpg

Tanya planning her attack!

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I mentioned this in a post yesterday...

So keep your mask handy and get ready for another nasty winter.

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Actually MikePal when they came up with the vaccines they had made clear that the vaccines would not prevent you from getting the virus. The design of the vaccines was simply to reduce the severity of the infection, and hopefully keep you out of the hospital and prevent the tying up of ICU beds. There was no likelihood that becoming vacationed would ensure herd immunity from the virus, I’m sure I’ve pointed out this notions several times on this forum. However a number of the members could not wrap their mines around that idea. I guess they felt that the vaccines should prevent you from being infected by the virus. That was not what they were saying, all they were saying over and over again was it would prevent individuals from being severely infected and ending up in the hospitals. If everyone got vaccinated it would help prevent the extensive drain on hospital resources, should a large number of individuals become infected. So there was never any thought that herd immunity could be achieved.

You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

If everyone got vaccinated it would help prevent the extensive drain on hospital resources, should a large number of individuals become infected. [/B]

You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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No, if therapeutics that have been proven to be effective were allowed there would be no drain or pandemic.
In fact, there was never any drain on the hospitals. Business as usual.
Simple fear mongering by MSM and politicians.
There is a much greater agenda at play here.

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

I guess they felt that the vaccines should prevent you from being infected by the virus. That was not what they were saying,

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I don't think you understand what the term 'efficacy' means; when the vaccines were marketed they came with two numbers... 93% " Efficacy against symptomatic COVID-19 disease" and 100% effective at keeping you from being Hospitalized.

ie : they will be 93% effective in preventing you 'getting' the virus.

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The first dose of the authorized COVID-19 vaccines has been shown to offer at least short-term protection against confirmed COVID-19 disease. For mRNA vaccines, the highest efficacy is seen after the second dose is administered.

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The authorized COVID-19 vaccines that are recommended for use by NACI in this Statement have been shown to be safe and efficacious against symptomatic laboratory-confirmed COVID-19, AND appear to protect against severe disease, hospitalization and death due to COVID-19.

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https://i.imgur.com/prU35IFl.jpg

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

So there was never any thought that herd immunity could be achieved.

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That's also not correct...the whole point of vaccines is to create herd immunity...vaccines are not a cure, they are a way to prevent a large portion of the population from getting the disease and spreading it. Normal herd immunity is 60-80% and what they try to achieve every fall with the seasonal flu shot.

What's never going to be achievable is a 100% vaccination rate, which is what the Government is trying to achieve now and have resorted to questionable methods to coerce and force people to get vaccinated.

The fact that the fully vaccinated have now become infected with the delta variant and have become potential spreaders of the disease, negates any effort to achieve that goal.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

That's also not correct...the whole point of vaccines is to create herd immunity...vaccines are not a cure, they are a way to prevent a large portion of the population from getting the disease and spreading it. Normal herd immunity is 60-80% and what they try to achieve every fall with the seasonal flu shot.

What's never going to be achievable is a 100% vaccination rate, which is what the Government is trying to achieve now and have resorted to questionable methods to coerce and force people to get vaccinated.

The fact that the fully vaccinated have now become infected with the delta variant and have become potential spreaders of the disease, negates any effort to achieve that goal.

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Mikepal I'm just passing on what was put out and what I've been reading about the vaccinations. There was no representation in what I've come across that there was any elution to the vaccination ensuring any degree of herd immunity. The thing the vaccination were design to do, was to reduce the virulence of the infection. I'm really not sure where the idea of them generating herd immunity came from (perhaps a political ploy with percentages in order to encourage people to get vaccinated in order to free up the medical system). I've been hearing all a long of people being vaccinated and still contracting the virus. How be it, a less sever case of the infection. That would suggest they either exposed themselves too soon after being fully vaccinated or the vaccine didn't ensure they were immune. If the latter, that would suggest the idea of establishing herd immunity would not be likely.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

Mikepal I'm just passing on what was put out and what I've been reading about the vaccinations. There was no representation in what I've come across that there was any elution to the vaccination ensuring any degree of herd immunity. The thing the vaccination were design to do, was to reduce the virulence of the infection. I'm really not sure where the idea of them generating herd immunity came from (perhaps a political ploy with percentages in order to encourage people to get vaccinated in order to free up the medical system). I've been hearing all a long of people being vaccinated and still contracting the virus. How be it, a less sever case of the infection. That would suggest they either exposed themselves too soon after being fully vaccinated or the vaccine didn't ensure they were immune. If the latter, that would suggest the idea of establishing herd immunity would not be likely.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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I don't think it's working out that way.
https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hos...y4ArF2EPGGDszU

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Proof..!! Ontario's Covid Update for Wed Aug 11:

Ontario reported 324 new cases of COVID-19 and the deaths of three more people with the illness on Wednesday.

According to the Ministry of Health, 234 of the infections, or roughly 72 per cent, were in people who have not been vaccinated against the virus.

Fifty-eight cases, or about 18 per cent were in fully vaccinated individuals, while 32 were people who had only had one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine.

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I think all these numbers are low ... and this is just fear mongering (especially the threat of a 4th wave) to get the remaining 17% to vaccinate, AND more importantly to push the vaccine passport ... and get people to buy in on it.

So, I'm hoping there won't be a 4th wave, because the government will accomplish what they inevitably will accomplish ... vaccine passports, and an (almost) fully vaccinated population.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

That's also not correct...the whole point of vaccines is to create herd immunity...vaccines are not a cure, they are a way to prevent a large portion of the population from getting the disease and spreading it. Normal herd immunity is 60-80% and what they try to achieve every fall with the seasonal flu shot.

What's never going to be achievable is a 100% vaccination rate, which is what the Government is trying to achieve now and have resorted to questionable methods to coerce and force people to get vaccinated.

The fact that the fully vaccinated have now become infected with the delta variant and have become potential spreaders of the disease, negates any effort to achieve that goal.

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I agree, except for the spreading part. The virus will be spread by those who are immune ... in fact, if this was a say perfect science experiment ... everyone was fully vaccinated, the vaccine worked 100%, the following would happen in Canada:

- 50,000 to 100,000 new COVID case PER DAY
- 0 hospitalizations (the most sever illness would be a runny nose).

Immunity is simply our bodies ability to fight off the virus without the need for medication or external support.
But, the virus would still be spread ... in fact like wildfire!

So this is why I have been arguing this point ... THE NUMBER OF COVID CASES PER DAY IS MEANINGLESS NOW WITH 83% vaccinated!
The only number they should be tracking is SEVERE COVID CASES ... as in hospitalizations.

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Originally Posted by MarkB

The only number they should be tracking is SEVERE COVID CASES ... as in hospitalizations.

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I too have been saying since the beginning of all this, the only numbers of significance are the Hospitalizations. All the case count numbers did was inflame the fear in the population. Which was the goal of Goverment.

And as posted...in a province of 15 million people, the are only (according to Ontario Health) 61 Hospitalizations...That is insignificant with any communicable disease running the population. There is not going to be a 4th wave that will overrun our hospitals. Statistically , only 4% of the 20% unvaccinated are the risk factor.

IF the vaccine is as advertised!

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Originally Posted by WillieBeno

I don't think it's working out that way.
https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hos...y4ArF2EPGGDszU

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What appears to be working out, is that being vaccinated does nothing to guarantee you won't be infected with COVID-19. It would appear that the numbers ending up in ICU are relatively low, but maybe I'm misreading the graph. Possibly those who have been vaccinated and are ending up in ICU didn't wait sufficient long enough before they became exposes, and their system hadn't developed an adequate enough level of factors to fight the infections. It's a strange disease with seemingly different behavioural pattern, than a lot of diseases that have infected us in the past.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by WillieBeno

IF the vaccine is as advertised!

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Well here is more vaccine advertisement this morning..

"The European Medicines Agency (EMA) has said it is investigating three new possible side effects that may be linked to mRNA Covid vaccines made by Pfizer and Moderna, after reports of allergic skin reactions and kidney disorders.
Europe’s medicines watchdog issued statements on Wednesday confirming that its Pharmacovigilance Risk Assessment Committee (PRAC) is looking into whether three medical conditions are connected to the administration of Covid jabs made by Pfizer and Moderna, after being made aware of a “small number” of incidences.

One of the three potential side effects being investigated is a skin disorder called erythema multiforme, an allergic reaction which manifests as reddish-purple skin lesions, sometimes around the mouth, eyes and other moist cavities on the body.

The two other conditions the PRAC is assessing for any link to the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are related to the kidneys, with one disorder linked to inflammation of filters in the organ. The other, nephrotic syndrome, causes the kidneys to leak excess protein into the urine, which can then appear bloody or foamy. Symptoms of the disorder also include swollen eyelids, feet and abdomen, and fatigue. Some cases occurred in people with a history of kidney conditions."

https://www.rt.com/news/531776-eu-in...covid-vaccine/

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

There was no representation in what I've come across that there was any elution to the vaccination ensuring any degree of herd immunity. The thing the vaccination were design to do, was to reduce the virulence of the infection.

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Vaccines' primary purpose is to 'prevent' the spreading of the diseases.


From the Mayo Clinic...

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Vaccines

Herd immunity also can be reached when enough people have been vaccinated against a disease and have developed protective antibodies against future infection. Unlike the natural infection method, vaccines create immunity without causing illness or resulting complications. Using the concept of herd immunity, vaccines have successfully controlled contagious diseases such as smallpox, polio, diphtheria, rubella and many others.

Herd immunity makes it possible to protect the population from a disease, including those who can't be vaccinated, such as newborns or those who have compromised immune systems.

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https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/art-20486808

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

What appears to be working out, is that being vaccinated does nothing to guarantee you won't be infected with COVID-19. It would appear that the numbers ending up in ICU are relatively low, but maybe I'm misreading the graph. Possibly those who have been vaccinated and are ending up in ICU didn't wait sufficient long enough before they became exposes, and their system hadn't developed an adequate enough level of factors to fight the infections. It's a strange disease with seemingly different behavioural pattern, than a lot of diseases that have infected us in the past.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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I get it no need to have to repeat yourself Gun Nut, the idea of the vaccine is to reduce severe symptoms and hospitalizations and to lesson the spread somewhat. ICU numbers are low with the correlation of cases. The bottom graph shows 0 unvaccinated, 7 partially vaccinated, and 5 fully vaccinated cases in ICU. Fully vaccinated status is aquired 2 weeks after your 2nd dose. The strange and differential pattern of this disease is because it is engineered to infect humans it is essentially a man made bio weapon released either on purpose or ahead of schedule accidently in order to cause the collapse of world economies, enslave the population, and usher in the Great Reset under a soon to be Global Governance headed by the W.E.F. and the U.N. working hand in hand with the Corporate Elite of the world and China.

The vaccine only triggers the body to fight the disease.

How many 'T' cells it triggers in your body is the only relationship. How well your body will fight the disease and prevent an infection is the work of the 'T' cells not the vaccine. Pfizer et all, say that even one dose will create enough 'T' cells to do that and prevent you from getting hospitalized ..ergo 100% effective.

How well the vaccine works at preventing you from getting the disease and spreading it (it's primary purpose) is called its 'efficacy' rate...somewhere between 63% and 93% pending on the manufacture and how many doses.

That is why even though you've been vaccinated...you can still get the disease BUT your 'T" cells from the first vaccination prevent you from getting really sick from it.

Unfortunatly the numbers indicate in 'some ' people who have been fully vaccinated, can still get Covid (Delta) and they still get sick and end up in the hospital...so far about 20%. or 1 in 4.

edit add: Today in Ontario..x61 in Hospital....(44 un-vaccinated, 10 one dose, 7 fully) so 28% have been vaccinated

There is a good summary of this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXV7i1yxu6c

Been following Medcram videos since this thing started and find him clear, conscience and easy to understand, without the fear mongering either side of this thing love to present to try to prove their points.

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Originally Posted by FishHog

There is a good summary of this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXV7i1yxu6c

Been following Medcram videos since this thing started and find him clear, conscience and easy to understand, without the fear mongering either side of this thing love to present to try to prove their points.

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Good explanation. The only fear mongering I hear is coming from the MSM and government.
Attachment 42089

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Originally Posted by WillieBeno

IF the vaccine is as advertised!

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Well, so far according to the stats in Ontario, the vaccine does reduce the chance of severe illness by 3 times.
So, I'd say there is a benefit.

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Originally Posted by MarkB

Well, so far according to the stats in Ontario, the vaccine does reduce the chance of severe illness by 3 times.
So, I'd say there is a benefit.

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I'm not so sure, Delta isn't the prevalent variant here yet. Note the bottom graph.
https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hos...y4ArF2EPGGDszU

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Originally Posted by WillieBeno

Good explanation. The only fear mongering I hear is coming from the MSM and government.
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Well I guess you don't see the fear mongering on the anti vaccine side as fear mongering, but if your a more middle of the road person, there is lots coming from both sides. If I get the vax, I'm going to die from one side, if I don't I'm going to die from the other. I believe neither, but that's what makes the world an interesting place, we all think differently.

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Originally Posted by FishHog

Well I guess you don't see the fear mongering on the anti vaccine side as fear mongering, but if your a more middle of the road person, there is lots coming from both sides. If I get the vax, I'm going to die from one side, if I don't I'm going to die from the other. I believe neither, but that's what makes the world an interesting place, we all think differently.

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Well none of us are getting out of here alive. The side effects of these experiments scare the stuffing out me on the other side the fear they are perpetuating is designed to control you, so I guess "There is nothing to fear but fear itself".

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Originally Posted by MarkB

I
So this is why I have been arguing this point ... THE NUMBER OF COVID CASES PER DAY IS MEANINGLESS NOW WITH 83% vaccinated!
The only number they should be tracking is SEVERE COVID CASES ... as in hospitalizations.

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Bingo-alas common sense is long dead.
Plus-stopping the Covid narrative will prevent many to remain 'improtant' .........will prevent many to make the "BIG buck on Covid" and will eliminate "tools" from our Politicians to influence voters.
Oh-and almost forget-will prevent many to earn full wages by doing "next to nothing "which is becoming way of life for them over 1.5 years.

Just gonna leave this here...

https://rumble.com/vkw3wt-more-covid...-to-hear..html

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Originally Posted by WillieBeno

I'm not so sure, Delta isn't the prevalent variant here yet. Note the bottom graph.
https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hos...y4ArF2EPGGDszU

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Oh yeah, well I understand all bets off the table for the Delta variant ... I'm talking about the current variants we
are dealing with. The info/stats (if they can be relied upon) indicate 3x reduction in severe cases ... if you are vaccinated.

Meanwhile, the Obamas throw a lavish birthday party at their mansion (what kind of grown man has a big birthday party? lol) and everyone is maskless, while your 4 year old has to wear a muzzle at school.

"Rules for thee but not for me"

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Originally Posted by MarkB

Oh yeah, well I understand all bets off the table for the Delta variant ... I'm talking about the current variants we
are dealing with. The info/stats (if they can be relied upon) indicate 3x reduction in severe cases ... if you are vaccinated.

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So far based on factual numbers, I have better chances of being murdered in Canada than dying of Covid.

Maybe wearing a bullet proof vest will protect me more than experimental vaccine with unknown long term effects.

The fear mongering
MSM is astounding when it comes to the plandemic

Seems relevant even if a few days old, from the Vaccine thread.

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Originally Posted by mosquito

Currently if you look at the variants there isn't much of the Delta in Canada so far. Delta is the 21A mutation of the Wuhan Pneumonia and they are upto 21H now.

Canada, no idea if they are doing significant mutation identification in Canada, so there may be more mutations but just not identified in the graphs. There is a slight increase in cases looking at the 2nd link. I put the mutations (from NextStrain) and the count is from WorldoMeters
https://nextstrain.org/ncov/gisaid/g...country=Canada
https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/canada/

World
https://nextstrain.org/ncov/gisaid/global
https://www.worldometers.info/corona...=homeAdvegas1?


USA shows a huge number of Delta (in relation to other mutations)
https://nextstrain.org/ncov/gisaid/global?f_country=USA
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Israel that got a huge lead in the vaccine injections now shows almost all are 21A (Delta) and they are going up in count again.
https://nextstrain.org/ncov/gisaid/g...country=Israel
https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/israel/


Based on Israeli and US numbers it looks like the Delta and vaccines effectiveness are possibly an issue, the other newer mutations (21B thru 21H) it is too early to know at this point.

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

So far based on factual numbers, I have better chances of being murdered in Canada than dying of Covid.

Maybe wearing a bullet proof vest will protect me more than experimental vaccine with unknown long term effects.

The fear mongering
MSM is astounding when it comes to the plandemic

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Well, I've had family get it ... friends too. So, it's not a fairy tale conspiracy to me.
I know healthy people that got very, very sick from it. Not your typical flu, that's for sure.

Does it justify all the lockdowns? Especially when we are 83% vaccinated ... I wouldn't say so.
I think that is just neurotic doctors trying to run the country.