Delta variant has made herd immunity impossible

[Gun Nut]

That's also not correct...the whole point of vaccines is to create herd immunity...vaccines are not a cure, they are a way to prevent a large portion of the population from getting the disease and spreading it. Normal herd immunity is 60-80% and what they try to achieve every fall with the seasonal flu shot.

What's never going to be achievable is a 100% vaccination rate, which is what the Government is trying to achieve now and have resorted to questionable methods to coerce and force people to get vaccinated.

The fact that the fully vaccinated have now become infected with the delta variant and have become potential spreaders of the disease, negates any effort to achieve that goal.

Mikepal I'm just passing on what was put out and what I've been reading about the vaccinations. There was no representation in what I've come across that there was any elution to the vaccination ensuring any degree of herd immunity. The thing the vaccination were design to do, was to reduce the virulence of the infection. I'm really not sure where the idea of them generating herd immunity came from (perhaps a political ploy with percentages in order to encourage people to get vaccinated in order to free up the medical system). I've been hearing all a long of people being vaccinated and still contracting the virus. How be it, a less sever case of the infection. That would suggest they either exposed themselves too soon after being fully vaccinated or the vaccine didn't ensure they were immune. If the latter, that would suggest the idea of establishing herd immunity would not be likely.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

[WillieBeno]

Mikepal I'm just passing on what was put out and what I've been reading about the vaccinations. There was no representation in what I've come across that there was any elution to the vaccination ensuring any degree of herd immunity. The thing the vaccination were design to do, was to reduce the virulence of the infection. I'm really not sure where the idea of them generating herd immunity came from (perhaps a political ploy with percentages in order to encourage people to get vaccinated in order to free up the medical system). I've been hearing all a long of people being vaccinated and still contracting the virus. How be it, a less sever case of the infection. That would suggest they either exposed themselves too soon after being fully vaccinated or the vaccine didn't ensure they were immune. If the latter, that would suggest the idea of establishing herd immunity would not be likely.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

I don't think it's working out that way.
https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hos...y4ArF2EPGGDszU

[MarkB]

Proof..!! Ontario's Covid Update for Wed Aug 11:

Ontario reported 324 new cases of COVID-19 and the deaths of three more people with the illness on Wednesday.

According to the Ministry of Health, 234 of the infections, or roughly 72 per cent, were in people who have not been vaccinated against the virus.

Fifty-eight cases, or about 18 per cent were in fully vaccinated individuals, while 32 were people who had only had one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine.

I think all these numbers are low ... and this is just fear mongering (especially the threat of a 4th wave) to get the remaining 17% to vaccinate, AND more importantly to push the vaccine passport ... and get people to buy in on it.

So, I'm hoping there won't be a 4th wave, because the government will accomplish what they inevitably will accomplish ... vaccine passports, and an (almost) fully vaccinated population.

[MarkB]

That's also not correct...the whole point of vaccines is to create herd immunity...vaccines are not a cure, they are a way to prevent a large portion of the population from getting the disease and spreading it. Normal herd immunity is 60-80% and what they try to achieve every fall with the seasonal flu shot.

What's never going to be achievable is a 100% vaccination rate, which is what the Government is trying to achieve now and have resorted to questionable methods to coerce and force people to get vaccinated.

The fact that the fully vaccinated have now become infected with the delta variant and have become potential spreaders of the disease, negates any effort to achieve that goal.

I agree, except for the spreading part. The virus will be spread by those who are immune ... in fact, if this was a say perfect science experiment ... everyone was fully vaccinated, the vaccine worked 100%, the following would happen in Canada:

- 50,000 to 100,000 new COVID case PER DAY
- 0 hospitalizations (the most sever illness would be a runny nose).

Immunity is simply our bodies ability to fight off the virus without the need for medication or external support.
But, the virus would still be spread ... in fact like wildfire!

So this is why I have been arguing this point ... THE NUMBER OF COVID CASES PER DAY IS MEANINGLESS NOW WITH 83% vaccinated!
The only number they should be tracking is SEVERE COVID CASES ... as in hospitalizations.

[MikePal]

The only number they should be tracking is SEVERE COVID CASES ... as in hospitalizations.

I too have been saying since the beginning of all this, the only numbers of significance are the Hospitalizations. All the case count numbers did was inflame the fear in the population. Which was the goal of Goverment.

And as posted...in a province of 15 million people, the are only (according to Ontario Health) 61 Hospitalizations...That is insignificant with any communicable disease running the population. There is not going to be a 4th wave that will overrun our hospitals. Statistically , only 4% of the 20% unvaccinated are the risk factor.

[WillieBeno]

IF the vaccine is as advertised!

[Gun Nut]

I don't think it's working out that way.
https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hos...y4ArF2EPGGDszU

What appears to be working out, is that being vaccinated does nothing to guarantee you won't be infected with COVID-19. It would appear that the numbers ending up in ICU are relatively low, but maybe I'm misreading the graph. Possibly those who have been vaccinated and are ending up in ICU didn't wait sufficient long enough before they became exposes, and their system hadn't developed an adequate enough level of factors to fight the infections. It's a strange disease with seemingly different behavioural pattern, than a lot of diseases that have infected us in the past.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

[impact]

IF the vaccine is as advertised!

Well here is more vaccine advertisement this morning..

"The European Medicines Agency (EMA) has said it is investigating three new possible side effects that may be linked to mRNA Covid vaccines made by Pfizer and Moderna, after reports of allergic skin reactions and kidney disorders.
Europe’s medicines watchdog issued statements on Wednesday confirming that its Pharmacovigilance Risk Assessment Committee (PRAC) is looking into whether three medical conditions are connected to the administration of Covid jabs made by Pfizer and Moderna, after being made aware of a “small number” of incidences.

One of the three potential side effects being investigated is a skin disorder called erythema multiforme, an allergic reaction which manifests as reddish-purple skin lesions, sometimes around the mouth, eyes and other moist cavities on the body.

The two other conditions the PRAC is assessing for any link to the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are related to the kidneys, with one disorder linked to inflammation of filters in the organ. The other, nephrotic syndrome, causes the kidneys to leak excess protein into the urine, which can then appear bloody or foamy. Symptoms of the disorder also include swollen eyelids, feet and abdomen, and fatigue. Some cases occurred in people with a history of kidney conditions."

https://www.rt.com/news/531776-eu-in...covid-vaccine/

[MikePal]

There was no representation in what I've come across that there was any elution to the vaccination ensuring any degree of herd immunity. The thing the vaccination were design to do, was to reduce the virulence of the infection.

Vaccines' primary purpose is to 'prevent' the spreading of the diseases.


From the Mayo Clinic...

Vaccines

Herd immunity also can be reached when enough people have been vaccinated against a disease and have developed protective antibodies against future infection. Unlike the natural infection method, vaccines create immunity without causing illness or resulting complications. Using the concept of herd immunity, vaccines have successfully controlled contagious diseases such as smallpox, polio, diphtheria, rubella and many others.

Herd immunity makes it possible to protect the population from a disease, including those who can't be vaccinated, such as newborns or those who have compromised immune systems.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/art-20486808

[WillieBeno]

What appears to be working out, is that being vaccinated does nothing to guarantee you won't be infected with COVID-19. It would appear that the numbers ending up in ICU are relatively low, but maybe I'm misreading the graph. Possibly those who have been vaccinated and are ending up in ICU didn't wait sufficient long enough before they became exposes, and their system hadn't developed an adequate enough level of factors to fight the infections. It's a strange disease with seemingly different behavioural pattern, than a lot of diseases that have infected us in the past.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

I get it no need to have to repeat yourself Gun Nut, the idea of the vaccine is to reduce severe symptoms and hospitalizations and to lesson the spread somewhat. ICU numbers are low with the correlation of cases. The bottom graph shows 0 unvaccinated, 7 partially vaccinated, and 5 fully vaccinated cases in ICU. Fully vaccinated status is aquired 2 weeks after your 2nd dose. The strange and differential pattern of this disease is because it is engineered to infect humans it is essentially a man made bio weapon released either on purpose or ahead of schedule accidently in order to cause the collapse of world economies, enslave the population, and usher in the Great Reset under a soon to be Global Governance headed by the W.E.F. and the U.N. working hand in hand with the Corporate Elite of the world and China.