Our home ON native land

I find it absolutely disgusting that so many in the media are holding up this woman as an example of courage and leadership.

there is nothing sacred left in this country

Don’t see a link

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

I find it absolutely disgusting that so many in the media are holding up this woman as an example of courage and leadership.

there is nothing sacred left in this country

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I am pretty confident we are ON native land.

I'm pretty confident we aren't.

Im confused? LOL

The NBA all star game had a torontonian singing the canadian national anthem and she changed one word in the anthem. Instead of saying "our home and native land" she said "our home on native land".

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I am pretty confident we are ON native land.

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I'm pretty confident that is not our national anthem.

Yes…sorry I could have posted a link to the story. Considering it was plastered all over the media yesterday I figured everyone knew. Global National had the singer on last night and she had the audacity to claim that our national anthem had been mis-written from the beginning. Global National used to be a credible news program but now I can see they’ve followed the rest of society down the rat hole, fawning over the latest wokester to make the news cycle.

Poor Canada

Ignore the silly attention-seeking woman. The anthem isn't sacred and the North America sporting world should take its cue from Europe and drop the anthem silliness before games and land acknowledgements along with it. I'm there to watch a game not listen to people half-heartedly sign an off-key rendition of Oh Canada.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I am pretty confident we are ON native land.

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LOL ….go ahead and donate your cottage property back to them then

This country was home to a sparse population who was mainly nomadic…..the notion that the whole country was theirs is simply foolish

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I am pretty confident we are ON native land.

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Yep, King George III's Royal Proclamation of 1763 pretty much return any claim of land ownership back over to its indigenous people. There after it became a matter of rights of land use but not land ownership. Where no treaty was make the indigenous people retain their native rights on the land and it was viewed as unceded. Where treaties were made the rights on the land were signed over to the Crown to be dispersed for settlement and it was viewed as ceded. There was no exchange of ownership, the only thing negotiated was rights to land use. Canada is an institution govern by a constitution that has land right use on indigenous land. Hence the singer's recognition of this in changing the line to "Our home on native land."

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Originally Posted by huntervinni

I'm pretty confident that is not our national anthem.

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Exactly. Since when do people who are asked to sing the National Anthem , have the right to change the words to suit their belief. Ridiculous to applaud that behaviour.

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

Yep, King George III's Royal Proclamation of 1763 pretty much return any claim of land ownership back over to its indigenous people. There after it became a matter of rights of land use but not land ownership. Where no treaty was make the indigenous people retain their native rights on the land and it was viewed as unceded. Where treaties were made the rights on the land were signed over to the Crown to be dispersed for settlement and it was viewed as ceded. There was no exchange of ownership, the only thing negotiated was rights to land use. Canada is an institution govern by a constitution that has land right use on indigenous land. Hence the singer's recognition of this in changing the line to "Our home on native land."

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Great post and helps those who have no read up on their Canadian History.

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Originally Posted by Sharon

Exactly. Since when do people who are asked to sing the National Anthem , have the right to change the words to suit their belief. Ridiculous to applaud that behaviour.

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These are changing times, the anthem has been changed at least three times over the course of history, for those who care to read:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_Canada

Perhaps the original authors did not foresee the decimation of the aboriginal peoples that was yet to come, everything from deliberate smallpox infections, abuse and murders at residential schools and forced re settlement. Basically a modern genocide.

So now that the bodies are showing up in numbers, artifacts stolen being returned, this small concession to make amends to our aboriginal brothers should be allowed.

Pretty sure if it was put to a vote for the change it would happen.

Lets face it folks just about nobody these days under 30 years old actually knows the words in any event and half over thirty years don't even bother to sing it when they should. IMHO

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

LOL ….go ahead and donate your cottage property back to them then

This country was home to a sparse population who was mainly nomadic…..the notion that the whole country was theirs is simply foolish

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Always a possibility I could leave them a conservation easement to all the land.

They were not nomadic mainly and you can gleam this from all the FACTS and FIGURES in the link below. Cheers.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...-eng.htm#part2

I'm native! I was born here so therefore I am Canadian! lol

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

These are changing times, the anthem has been changed at least three times over the course of history, for those who care to read:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_Canada

Perhaps the original authors did not foresee the decimation of the aboriginal peoples that was yet to come, everything from deliberate smallpox infections, abuse and murders at residential schools and forced re settlement. Basically a modern genocide.

So now that the bodies are showing up in numbers, artifacts stolen being returned, this small concession to make amends to our aboriginal brothers should be allowed.

Pretty sure if it was put to a vote for the change it would happen.

Lets face it folks just about nobody these days under 30 years old actually knows the words in any event and half over thirty years don't even bother to sing it when they should. IMHO

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“….bodies showing up in numbers….”
I am not denying that the residential school were wrong, or that abuses took place, but let’s not abandon reality. In that time period, children of many ages and backgrounds died of all kinds of diseases. When you take ground-penetrating radar into a graveyard….you are going to find…..graves !!
A smart guy like you knows better than to be caught up in media sensationalism.

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

“….bodies showing up in numbers….”
I am not denying that the residential school were wrong, or that abuses took place, but let’s not abandon reality. In that time period, children of many ages and backgrounds died of all kinds of diseases. When you take ground-penetrating radar into a graveyard….you are going to find…..graves !!
A smart guy like you knows better than to be caught up in media sensationalism.

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I read this morning where a teacher in B.C. was fired for going against the official ideology.. During a grade 12 classroom a student said priests murdered and tortured students and left them to die in the snow but the teacher stated most in fact died primarily of tuberculosis. No doubt many atrocities occurred by the church and should never be dismissed but I've also read many stories of children that were removed from deplorable conditions and received proper care and are very thankful. Two sides too every story.......

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

“….bodies showing up in numbers….”
I am not denying that the residential school were wrong, or that abuses took place, but let’s not abandon reality. In that time period, children of many ages and backgrounds died of all kinds of diseases. When you take ground-penetrating radar into a graveyard….you are going to find…..graves !!
A smart guy like you knows better than to be caught up in media sensationalism.

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Well the great thing these days is the use of advance science and DNA and forensic investigations. The cause of death of many of these children will be discovered including if they died of disease or from other causes. We are only now learning of the sexual abuse done at the hands of priest's and ministers and COVERED up by the Church for decades. There is absolutely going to be cases of murder discovered when these investigations take place and believe me they will be taking place.

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Originally Posted by warpipe

I read this morning where a teacher in B.C. was fired for going against the official ideology.. During a grade 12 classroom a student said priests murdered and tortured students and left them to die in the snow but the teacher stated most in fact died primarily of tuberculosis. No doubt many atrocities occurred by the church and should never be dismissed but I've also read many stories of children that were removed from deplorable conditions and received proper care and are very thankful. Two sides too every story.......

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Are you trying to tell us that children forced from the hands of their parents by RCMP officers, separated from siblings, deprived of their parents, forced to speak only English, some even later adopted out. That the aboriginal community should be THANKFUL.

The whole idea of taking these children was not to look after them but to "take the Indian out of them" somehow make them fit into colonial society or the white man's world.

Sorry but so far I have not hear ONE SINGLE STORY where a child subject to the residential prison system wanted to THANK THE AUTHORITIES.

Perhaps you can dig up some accounts of this happening and post them for me?

How exactly did this learned TEACHER know they died of tuberculosis, was the teacher around them, was the teacher at the autopsy, was the teacher medically trained?

Children do die of disease and if they are white children their death and cause of death and burial place is marked and recorded.

How come we do not know the cause of death of these children, why are they in UNMARKED graves, why were their no autopsies done.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Well the great thing these days is the use of advance science and DNA and forensic investigations. The cause of death of many of these children will be discovered including if they died of disease or from other causes. We are only now learning of the sexual abuse done at the hands of priest's and ministers and COVERED up by the Church for decades. There is absolutely going to be cases of murder discovered when these investigations take place and believe me they will be taking place.

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I have not read about a single grave being excavated for these kinds of investigations. This might be because the findings will not necessarily fit the narrative that has been promoted.

Abuses by the Church, pursue them in court by all means….but don’t hold every white man accountable for it

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Are you trying to tell us that children forced from the hands of their parents by RCMP officers, separated from siblings, deprived of their parents, forced to speak only English, some even later adopted out. That the aboriginal community should be THANKFUL.

The whole idea of taking these children was not to look after them but to "take the Indian out of them" somehow make them fit into colonial society or the white man's world.

Sorry but so far I have not hear ONE SINGLE STORY where a child subject to the residential prison system wanted to THANK THE AUTHORITIES.

Perhaps you can dig up some accounts of this happening and post them for me?

How exactly did this learned TEACHER know they died of tuberculosis, was the teacher around them, was the teacher at the autopsy, was the teacher medically trained?

Children do die of disease and if they are white children their death and cause of death and burial place is marked and recorded.

How come we do not know the cause of death of these children, why are they in UNMARKED graves, why were their no autopsies done.

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Gilroy, I think he made some valid points and that you should not deduce all that you have …

I heard about the BC teacher too….again we see that anyone questioning the official narrative is quickly silenced…

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Originally Posted by warpipe

During a grade 12 classroom a student said priests murdered and tortured students and left them to die in the snow but the teacher stated most in fact died primarily of tuberculosis.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

How exactly did this learned TEACHER know they died of tuberculosis, was the teacher around them, was the teacher at the autopsy, was the teacher medically trained?

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Gilroy, apparently you put a lot of faith into what the grade 12 student say's, but not the teacher. Funny that?

The teacher who was fired has facts on his side. Anglicans who ran the Shingwauk residential school in Sault Ste. Marie kept records of the cause of death of people buried in their cemetery.

Of the 102 bodies buried there 49% of them died of "tuberculosis and related illnesses."

https://ecampusontario.pressbooks.pu...tery-register/

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

The teacher who was fired has facts on his side. Anglicans who ran the Shingwauk residential school in Sault Ste. Marie kept records of the cause of death of people buried in their cemetery.

Of the 102 bodies buried there 49% of them died of "tuberculosis and related illnesses."

https://ecampusontario.pressbooks.pu...tery-register/

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Really, how did they all die, tuberculosis back then was a big killer. So some religious denominations were better bookkeepers than others. The fact remains that these indigenous children were remove from their cultural lifestyle, because it was felt, it would be easier by doing so, to indoctrinate them into the colonial lifestyle and assimilate them. That is cultural genocide and our forefathers did it. What transpired while it was being done, I suspect is something that remains to haunt us. In this world of ensuing guilt, it would appear we are the ones left to make things right.


You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

That’s where I disagree, we should not feel any guilt or responsibility for the unfortunate things that were done by the government and the Catholic Church. I wasn’t even born when this was happening, you don’t punish a kid for his Dad’s crimes. As to the Catholic Church they’ve done so many horrible things, the residual schools are just the tip of the ice burg. One of my friends dad spent several years in a Catholic reform school and was abused in many ways, the nuns used to tie him down and whip him with wires.

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

Really, how did they all die, tuberculosis back then was a big killer. So some religious denominations were better bookkeepers than others. The fact remains that these indigenous children were remove from their cultural lifestyle, because it was felt, it would be easier by doing so, to indoctrinate them into the colonial lifestyle and assimilate them. That is cultural genocide and our forefathers did it. What transpired while it was being done, I suspect is something that remains to haunt us. In this world of ensuing guilt, it would appear we are the ones left to make things right.


You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Not arguing those points. The reason I'm familiar with Shingwauk Hall is I grew up in the Sault and it was a short walk from where I lived. It was still open when I was in grade school and there were indigenous students from Shingwauk in our classes. I have a fairly good idea of what they went through and don't need to be lectured. Thanks.

Listen to cbc radio for a bit and they were talking about it. Most of the callers said they like it one callers agreed but said we should be getting them water before we change the anthem.



Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

I have not read about a single grave being excavated for these kinds of investigations. This might be because the findings will not necessarily fit the narrative that has been promoted.

Abuses by the Church, pursue them in court by all means….but don’t hold every white man accountable for it

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Early days yet my friend, they can bury the bodies but will not be able to bury the truth.

Every white man will be held responsible as their is only one taxpayers and there will be plenty of civil actions started.

Just remember these Churches were operating under authority of various Canadian Governments as was the RCMP so taxpayers will be paying out in the end.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

The teacher who was fired has facts on his side. Anglicans who ran the Shingwauk residential school in Sault Ste. Marie kept records of the cause of death of people buried in their cemetery.

Of the 102 bodies buried there 49% of them died of "tuberculosis and related illnesses."

https://ecampusontario.pressbooks.pu...tery-register/

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Do you believe the Anglicans? Would they have a motive to cover up crimes?

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Every white man will be held responsible...

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There is it, the true spirit of leftism perfectly summed up in a single sentence.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Do you believe the Anglicans? Would they have a motive to cover up crimes?

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Residential school survivors and researchers are not disputing the accuracy of their records. There is more work to be done regarding the cemetery in the Sault but it is fallacious to suggest all or even most deaths at residential schools were "crimes."

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Originally Posted by Bushwhacker

There is it, the true spirit of leftism perfectly summed up in a single sentence.

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Left or right makes no difference, both Liberal and Conservatives Governments have paid out billion over the years and will have to continue paying out, just a simple fact of life.

You have to remember there are plenty of First Nations Lawyers these days, well trained.

I agree with Badenoch that we should abandon the anthem before sporting events. Regular sports games are not the Olympics, and you aren’t representing your country. I think it actually devalues the anthem and waters down national belonging / pride by making it something to skip through to get to the action, so to speak.

Leave politics out of sports as much as possible. It's ruining them.

This recent example is just a rebranded version of Kaepernick taking a knee during the anthem -- a cheap stunt to push the woke agenda, using a member of a protected class as cannon fodder for the regime. Expect much more of this going forward.

As for the wacky claims about this being native land, a few things:

1) Which group of natives, exactly? It was a land mass of continually warring and mostly nomadic tribes. Which group could claim ownership?
2) I thought according to leftist/progressive orthodoxy, we are all immigrants? Technically the natives came from Asia thousands of years ago. So they aren’t in any way ‘native’ to this land. What about the second or third group of natives to arrive? Should they go back to where they came from? Who decides? How do you square all of this?
3) Just because a group of people merely existed in a certain geographic area does not automatically make that a nation. There was no concept of country at all during this time

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Residential school survivors and researchers are not disputing the accuracy of their records. There is more work to be done regarding the cemetery in the Sault but it is fallacious to suggest all or even most deaths at residential schools were "crimes."

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I never suggested all or even most deaths were crimes, but there were crimes committed and these come from first hand accounts of relatives of the dead. I have not heard that residential school survivors have agree the school records were accurate, their accounts dispute
that.

The folks that have motive to cover up crimes are the perpetrators of those crimes.

I have no doubt that some children were beaten to death, others the victims of sexual abuse were murdered to cover up the offences and I believe that children died from neglect as they did not get medical attention.

Smallpox was used to wipe out entire communities previously on purpose, so anything is probable. IMHO

Bushwhacker;1209801

As for the wacky claims about this being native land, a few things:

1) Which group of natives, exactly? It was a land mass of continually warring and mostly nomadic tribes. Which group could claim ownership?

(r) Well please refer to the already posted information https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...-eng.htm#part2

As you can see from the charts the various tribes had geographic area's they operated in and many were not nomadic. A village of 800 growing corn and maize. https://torontoist.com/2015/06/histo...-of-teiaiagon/


2) I thought according to leftist/progressive orthodoxy, we are all immigrants? Technically the natives came from Asia thousands of years ago. So they aren’t in any way ‘native’ to this land. What about the second or third group of natives to arrive? Should they go back to where they came from? Who decides? How do you square all of this?

(r) Real simple, when the Vikings arrived they were meet by Natives.


3) Just because a group of people merely existed in a certain geographic area does not automatically make that a nation. There was no concept of country at all during this time[/QUOTE]

(r) Its all here all you have to do is read it https://www.britannica.com/list/the-...is-confederacy

[QUOTE=Gilroy;1209765]Are you trying to tell us that children forced from the hands of their parents by RCMP officers, separated from siblings, deprived of their parents, forced to speak only English, some even later adopted out. That the aboriginal community should be THANKFUL.

The whole idea of taking these children was not to look after them but to "take the Indian out of them" somehow make them fit into colonial society or the white man's world.

Sorry but so far I have not hear ONE SINGLE STORY where a child subject to the residential prison system wanted to THANK THE AUTHORITIES.

Perhaps you can dig up some accounts of this happening and post them for me?

I'd suggest reading William Gairdener "Balancing The Biased Genocide Story About Residential Schools" It's an interesting article about Inuvik Dene Chief Cece Hodgins McCauley she became the first female chief of one of the 23 bands in the Northwest Territories. The recipient of a 2017 Inspire Award for her achievements and contributions in politics reported that many former students were coming forward with their good and positive side of their residential school experiences. Elders had phoned her to express concern that only the negative side of the residential schools was being publicized. "They are planning to start a committee of elders to make public the positive side of residential schools. They all agree that Canadians must be made aware of the positive stories", she wrote.
Another is a Cree story teller Tomson Highway a playwright, novelist, classical pianist and Order of Canada recipient. Regarding the Truth and Reconciliation Commission he commented " You may have heard stories from 7000 witnesses in the process that were negative", he adds "but what you haven't heard are the 7000 reports that were positive stories. He goes on to say that there are very many successful people today with brilliant careers that wouldn't have happened without these schools.
Again I'll reiterate that I realize horrendous atrocities occurred and I hope some kind of justice will be served but instead of all the negative stories perhaps some light can be reflected on some of the positive stories.

If the descendent is to be held accountable for the actions how far back in time can we go to punish people. Maybe the ones that nailed someone to a cross can be found.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Left or right makes no difference, both Liberal and Conservatives Governments have paid out billion over the years and will have to continue paying out, just a simple fact of life.

You have to remember there are plenty of First Nations Lawyers these days, well trained.

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Oh. They must have become lawyers "living of the land"
And not going through the schools

Sent from my moto g(8) power using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Bushwhacker;1209801

As for the wacky claims about this being native land, a few things:

1) Which group of natives, exactly? It was a land mass of continually warring and mostly nomadic tribes. Which group could claim ownership?

(r) Well please refer to the already posted information https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...-eng.htm#part2

As you can see from the charts the various tribes had geographic area's they operated in and many were not nomadic. A village of 800 growing corn and maize. https://torontoist.com/2015/06/histo...-of-teiaiagon/


2) I thought according to leftist/progressive orthodoxy, we are all immigrants? Technically the natives came from Asia thousands of years ago. So they aren’t in any way ‘native’ to this land. What about the second or third group of natives to arrive? Should they go back to where they came from? Who decides? How do you square all of this?

(r) Real simple, when the Vikings arrived they were meet by Natives.


3) Just because a group of people merely existed in a certain geographic area does not automatically make that a nation. There was no concept of country at all during this time

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(r) Its all here all you have to do is read it https://www.britannica.com/list/the-...is-confederacy[/QUOTE]

A thought came to mind about the notion of "native land." You become a native of a place simply by being born there, so the word "native" doesn't really purpose the circumstance which the singer appears to want to get at. Perhaps more to the point of the intent would be better served by changing the lyrics to: " Our home on indigenous land." This would establish the idea of the first peoples to settle and have ownership of this continent prior to colonization by Europeans. Before that colonization there were numerous tribes of indigenous people each with their own tribal region, I have a map of North America that was drawn up to detail the various tribal regions. It runs from the High Artic through to the bottom of the isthmus that joins up with South America.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by glen

If the descendent is to be held accountable for the actions how far back in time can we go to punish people. Maybe the ones that nailed someone to a cross can be found.

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Several First Nations tribes will be in trouble if they were held to a similar standard, considering many especially plains tribes lived a raiding and plunder life style. It was common practice by some of these tribes to steal women and continually sexually assault them until they lost all self will and identity and merged into the tribe. Mankind no matter what group has done huge lists of atrocities, and if we were to go back and hold everyone accountable for there ancestors sins we’d all be in hot water. To be clear I fully agree that what was done to many of these native kids is horrible, if there are still people around who did these crimes, than I fully agree they should be punished.

Some of the arguments in here are very funny and riddled with logical inconsistencies.

The same arguments being used to discredit the claim of the original inhabitants of North America would be scoffed at if applied to Switzerland for example. Why do they get all the best land with the best living conditions, all they did was occupy that space for over a thousand years.

Hey whitey no one is saying you personally did something. Maybe you did and that's why you feel so defensive. At the end of the day life is full of different versions of this one basic lesson; just because it is not your fault does not mean it is not your responsibility.

Our responsibility as citizens is to care for our citizens. We do not live in a zero sum game and giving help to one person does not mean help is being taken away from someone else.

I am seeing vast ignorance of North American history in here, and it is shameful. I am lucky enough that one of my parents has access to photocopies of original documents that are not allowed to leave the National Archives/Library. The personal thoughts and feelings of the people who governed this place were inhumane not by today's standards but the standards of basic human decency. They did not send the beat and brightest to settle this land, they sent who they saw as expendable. We are a nation founded by drunks, theives, murders and, swindlers. There is very little to be proud of in the creation of our nation. Seems like we could at least seek some pride in how we care for our people now.

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Originally Posted by Terrible_E

Some of the arguments in here are very funny and riddled with logical inconsistencies.

The same arguments being used to discredit the claim of the original inhabitants of North America would be scoffed at if applied to Switzerland for example. Why do they get all the best land with the best living conditions, all they did was occupy that space for over a thousand years.

Hey whitey no one is saying you personally did something. Maybe you did and that's why you feel so defensive. At the end of the day life is full of different versions of this one basic lesson; just because it is not your fault does not mean it is not your responsibility.

Our responsibility as citizens is to care for our citizens. We do not live in a zero sum game and giving help to one person does not mean help is being taken away from someone else.

I am seeing vast ignorance of North American history in here, and it is shameful. I am lucky enough that one of my parents has access to photocopies of original documents that are not allowed to leave the National Archives/Library. The personal thoughts and feelings of the people who governed this place were inhumane not by today's standards but the standards of basic human decency. They did not send the beat and brightest to settle this land, they sent who they saw as expendable. We are a nation founded by drunks, theives, murders and, swindlers. There is very little to be proud of in the creation of our nation. Seems like we could at least seek some pride in how we care for our people now.

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I’m open if you’d like to show me one. The reason Switzerland owns their land is they’ve successfully held it. Is that morally right maybe not, but that’s unfortunately how it’s been throughout the history of mankind. Again I could point out that many native tribes invaded and pushed other tribes out. Just to be clear I’m not defending the actions of the government or the Catholic Church. Sure we need to take care of our citizens, hence they have many government supports and the fact they don’t have to pay taxes. As to me being defensive, It’s simply expressingy opinion on the matter, unlikely I could have done anything considering that residential schools were closed decades before I was born.

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Originally Posted by Terrible_E

Some of the arguments in here are very funny and riddled with logical inconsistencies.

The same arguments being used to discredit the claim of the original inhabitants of North America would be scoffed at if applied to Switzerland for example. Why do they get all the best land with the best living conditions, all they did was occupy that space for over a thousand years.

Hey whitey no one is saying you personally did something. Maybe you did and that's why you feel so defensive. At the end of the day life is full of different versions of this one basic lesson; just because it is not your fault does not mean it is not your responsibility.

Our responsibility as citizens is to care for our citizens. We do not live in a zero sum game and giving help to one person does not mean help is being taken away from someone else.

I am seeing vast ignorance of North American history in here, and it is shameful. I am lucky enough that one of my parents has access to photocopies of original documents that are not allowed to leave the National Archives/Library. The personal thoughts and feelings of the people who governed this place were inhumane not by today's standards but the standards of basic human decency. They did not send the beat and brightest to settle this land, they sent who they saw as expendable. We are a nation founded by drunks, theives, murders and, swindlers. There is very little to be proud of in the creation of our nation. Seems like we could at least seek some pride in how we care for our people now.

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Well Terrible_E, I got it, that our first prime minister Sir John A. had the reputation of being one of the drunks, who were among the other thieves, murders and swindlers?

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you8 stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Bushwhacker;1209801

As for the wacky claims about this being native land, a few things:

1) Which group of natives, exactly? It was a land mass of continually warring and mostly nomadic tribes. Which group could claim ownership?

(r) Well please refer to the already posted information https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...-eng.htm#part2

As you can see from the charts the various tribes had geographic area's they operated in and many were not nomadic. A village of 800 growing corn and maize. https://torontoist.com/2015/06/histo...-of-teiaiagon/


2) I thought according to leftist/progressive orthodoxy, we are all immigrants? Technically the natives came from Asia thousands of years ago. So they aren’t in any way ‘native’ to this land. What about the second or third group of natives to arrive? Should they go back to where they came from? Who decides? How do you square all of this?

(r) Real simple, when the Vikings arrived they were meet by Natives.


3) Just because a group of people merely existed in a certain geographic area does not automatically make that a nation. There was no concept of country at all during this time

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(r) Its all here all you have to do is read it https://www.britannica.com/list/the-...is-confederacy[/QUOTE]

This does not address or answer any of my questions.

The very term used to define the group does not make sense, as technically they were not native to this land anymore than you or I. The left has always had a problem defining things (they can't even define what a woman is) so pick a lane and try to present a consistent / coherent argument.

Which group was the original? That seems to be the lynchpin for the "colonization was the worst thing ever" crowd. But it's an infinite regress with no foundation (Mohawks can tell the Sioux to leave, but the Hurons can tell the Mohawks to leave, and so on, all the way back to the first men). The claim quickly falls apart.

So it can't simply be a question of who came first, as that is a dead end. The conversation must inevitably wade into the realm of values, and which values are better than others. Is cannibalism, torture, slavery and human sacrifice the pinnacle of human virtue? Or is there something unique about Western (aka Christian) culture that sees each person made in the divine image of God, allowing things to move forward in a way not before seen.

I'm not sure what your link is supposed to prove. That a particular group of natives in a small geographic area entered into a peace treaty with relative success for a certain time? This does not mean they formed the country of Canada, with all that entails. A vision and undertaking of that scope was simply not possible.

People have lived in both peace and war throughout history. People have traded and elected leaders since the dawn of time. Democracy existed all the way back in the 6th century BC. Even animals are able to cooperate within relatively complex social structures.

Although the words to the anthem have been changed throughout it's course, all the changes were done through parliament. I don't doubt that if someone approached parliament about making an official change, it would happen. Until then, sing the official words, or don't sing at all. After all, the singer is representing all Canadians, and this should not be used as a personal vehicle to promote their agenda.

While I believe that indigineous kids were subject to abuse and neglect at the hands of their European reformers, it seems that the narrative has become one sided regarding the burial grounds that keep making the news. This article describes what was known before the woke media jumped on the story and sensationalized it.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/the...-school-graves


What irritates me about this native vs non-native arguement, is the portrayal of first nations people as being a peaceful, happy go lucky group. While this may have been the case in some instances, it certainly wasn't in others. Some tribes were behaving the same way some Europeans were, before their arrival. The slave trade among indigenous tribes was booming before the arrival of the white man.

https://www.dorchesterreview.ca/blog...s-their-slaves

And, genocide wasn't something that was only carried out by whites. Native groups had been fighting amongst themselves for years, with the goal being to plunder, loot, and eradicate the opposition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaver_Wars

The question that needs to have an answer is, how long does this reconcilation have to go on before it can be put to rest, or can it ever?

[QUOTE=warpipe;1209818]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Are you trying to tell us that children forced from the hands of their parents by RCMP officers, separated from siblings, deprived of their parents, forced to speak only English, some even later adopted out. That the aboriginal community should be THANKFUL.

The whole idea of taking these children was not to look after them but to "take the Indian out of them" somehow make them fit into colonial society or the white man's world.

Sorry but so far I have not hear ONE SINGLE STORY where a child subject to the residential prison system wanted to THANK THE AUTHORITIES.

Perhaps you can dig up some accounts of this happening and post them for me?

I'd suggest reading William Gairdener "Balancing The Biased Genocide Story About Residential Schools" It's an interesting article about Inuvik Dene Chief Cece Hodgins McCauley she became the first female chief of one of the 23 bands in the Northwest Territories. The recipient of a 2017 Inspire Award for her achievements and contributions in politics reported that many former students were coming forward with their good and positive side of their residential school experiences. Elders had phoned her to express concern that only the negative side of the residential schools was being publicized. "They are planning to start a committee of elders to make public the positive side of residential schools. They all agree that Canadians must be made aware of the positive stories", she wrote.
Another is a Cree story teller Tomson Highway a playwright, novelist, classical pianist and Order of Canada recipient. Regarding the Truth and Reconciliation Commission he commented " You may have heard stories from 7000 witnesses in the process that were negative", he adds "but what you haven't heard are the 7000 reports that were positive stories. He goes on to say that there are very many successful people today with brilliant careers that wouldn't have happened without these schools.
Again I'll reiterate that I realize horrendous atrocities occurred and I hope some kind of justice will be served but instead of all the negative stories perhaps some light can be reflected on some of the positive stories.

---

Nice to hear of these accounts from you.

Gun Nut;1209825 Its all here all you have to do is read it https://www.britannica.com/list/the-...is-confederacy[/QUOTE]

"A thought came to mind about the notion of "native land." You become a native of a place simply by being born there, so the word "native" doesn't really purpose the circumstance which the singer appears to want to get at. Perhaps more to the point of the intent would be better served by changing the lyrics to: " Our home on indigenous land." This would establish the idea of the first peoples to settle and have ownership of this continent prior to colonization by Europeans. Before that colonization there were numerous tribes of indigenous people each with their own tribal region, I have a map of North America that was drawn up to detail the various tribal regions. It runs from the High Artic through to the bottom of the isthmus that joins up with South America."

Good Post.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut[/QUOTE]

Just so nobody misunderstands any of my post…I don’t agree with what the Government or Catholic Church did, I’m not some anti native racist either. My much appreciated hunting, fishing, and trapping mentor has native blood. He would also eco everything I’ve said so far. All I’m saying is if we all have to start paying for our ancestors sins we all in big trouble. Every group of people included.

So....history aka The Past is the lesson learned here and now in The Present so as we don't make the same mistakes in The Future ?
As for the OP ? If changing the words to our national anthem is a crime then a whole lot of people are in trouble. Heck ! I'm 66 yrs old and still flub it up on occasion .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by delmer

Although the words to the anthem have been changed throughout it's course, all the changes were done through parliament. I don't doubt that if someone approached parliament about making an official change, it would happen. Until then, sing the official words, or don't sing at all. After all, the singer is representing all Canadians, and this should not be used as a personal vehicle to promote their agenda.

While I believe that indigineous kids were subject to abuse and neglect at the hands of their European reformers, it seems that the narrative has become one sided regarding the burial grounds that keep making the news. This article describes what was known before the woke media jumped on the story and sensationalized it.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/the...-school-graves


What irritates me about this native vs non-native arguement, is the portrayal of first nations people as being a peaceful, happy go lucky group. While this may have been the case in some instances, it certainly wasn't in others. Some tribes were behaving the same way some Europeans were, before their arrival. The slave trade among indigenous tribes was booming before the arrival of the white man.

https://www.dorchesterreview.ca/blog...s-their-slaves

And, genocide wasn't something that was only carried out by whites. Native groups had been fighting amongst themselves for years, with the goal being to plunder, loot, and eradicate the opposition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaver_Wars

The question that needs to have an answer is, how long does this reconcilation have to go on before it can be put to rest, or can it ever?

---

What set me back a bit, wasn't exactly any plundering or slavery, but in an historical recounting of a soup served by an indigenous brave He was dishing it out for a colonist ally, following a skirmish they won over an adversarial group. A human hand was elevate from the pot, this was enough to discourage the colonist solder, from taking any further part in the meal. Although I was aware that cannibalism was practice amongst the South American indigenous people. This episode detailing it, with the North America indigenous people, kind of throw me.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hunter06

Just so nobody misunderstands any of my post…I don’t agree with what the Government or Catholic Church did, I’m not some anti native racist either. My much appreciated hunting, fishing, and trapping mentor has native blood. He would also eco everything I’ve said so far. All I’m saying is if we all have to start paying for our ancestors sins we all in big trouble. Every group of people included.

---

Do not despair Young man...you shall not be labeled by any ,for the things You said and wrote (straight thinking and being honest, albeit a littlebit naive-yet down to earth person.)
Neither here,nor outside.

What we see happening everywhere is the "pseudo communism" resurrecting ,in another way.
In the olde days ,they sing the Internationale (first,just the ones ,they believed in communism or seen personal benefits = greed ! ...from it)then they made everyone else sing it.
If You did not sing at the end-you may be labeled THE enemy!
Just remember-they said : If You are not with us,You are against us-sounds familiar in 2023?

They sing from the top of their lungs : watch the wording

This is the eruption of the end
Of the past let us wipe the slate clean!
and acted upon erasing the past:-toppling statutes,burning libraries,re writing the history-expelling the non compliants,or simply killing them .

While we are not at the latest stage-killing(phisically at least)yet morally and publicly,many were "killed" already,for daring to say differently.

All this to suit a narrow segment of" unknown beneficiaries",economically,morally , getting them or helping them staying in power.
(Follow the money.......sort of)

At any cost-cost paid by everyone ,regardless of staying on a sides ,or being against it.

All this -supported by great many direct beneficiaries ,then the believers ,peons and grey personalities.They are called even by their own Iconic figure Lenin-the Useful Idiots ( in their own term-see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiotWikipedia).
While Wikipedia mauls on the origin-just ask any reasonable ,knowledgable and honest "impacted"European,where the saying is coming from.
It is sad,and concerning-especially for all the many innocents,or members of the 10th generation of the "accused",paying the price for the crime "defined and legistlated"by them-the benficiaries of the NEW World order.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bushwhacker

(r) Its all here all you have to do is read it https://www.britannica.com/list/the-...is-confederacy

---

This does not address or answer any of my questions.

The very term used to define the group does not make sense, as technically they were not native to this land anymore than you or I. The left has always had a problem defining things (they can't even define what a woman is) so pick a lane and try to present a consistent / coherent argument.

Which group was the original? That seems to be the lynchpin for the "colonization was the worst thing ever" crowd. But it's an infinite regress with no foundation (Mohawks can tell the Sioux to leave, but the Hurons can tell the Mohawks to leave, and so on, all the way back to the first men). The claim quickly falls apart.

So it can't simply be a question of who came first, as that is a dead end. The conversation must inevitably wade into the realm of values, and which values are better than others. Is cannibalism, torture, slavery and human sacrifice the pinnacle of human virtue? Or is there something unique about Western (aka Christian) culture that sees each person made in the divine image of God, allowing things to move forward in a way not before seen.

I'm not sure what your link is supposed to prove. That a particular group of natives in a small geographic area entered into a peace treaty with relative success for a certain time? This does not mean they formed the country of Canada, with all that entails. A vision and undertaking of that scope was simply not possible.

People have lived in both peace and war throughout history. People have traded and elected leaders since the dawn of time. Democracy existed all the way back in the 6th century BC. Even animals are able to cooperate within relatively complex social structures.[/QUOTE]

Another "like" button.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by longpointer

So....history aka The Past is the lesson learned here and now in The Present so as we don't make the same mistakes in The Future ?
As for the OP ? If changing the words to our national anthem is a crime then a whole lot of people are in trouble. Heck ! I'm 66 yrs old and still flub it up on occasion .

---

Not technically a crime of course, but disrespectful nonetheless. Plenty of respectful discussion here and unlikely that any of the participants have changed their opinions, which is fine. Happy that it stayed respectful so it could continue

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 73hunter

Not technically a crime of course, but disrespectful nonetheless. Plenty of respectful discussion here and unlikely that any of the participants have changed their opinions, which is fine. Happy that it stayed respectful so it could continue

---

So am I. :)

To get back to some of the original topic: That would be a good change for the National Anthem, but when asked to sing at an event, you sing the Anthem we are expecting , not your choice.

This will probably get me in trouble, but.....:) My brother is a guide who lives on Vancouver Island.....big time fisherman , big time game hunter in Alberta.
It drives him crazy how much free fishing and hunting the First Nations people are allowed. I know they deserve special rights, but imagine if you were fishing /hunting there and your small limit is up, while you watch the First Nations people hunt and fish on, often leading to the demise of a species.
He is not a racist , but I can understand his frustration.

In the future people will be punished for what they are doing today.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Terrible_E

Some of the arguments in here are very funny and riddled with logical inconsistencies.

The same arguments being used to discredit the claim of the original inhabitants of North America would be scoffed at if applied to Switzerland for example. Why do they get all the best land with the best living conditions, all they did was occupy that space for over a thousand years.

Hey whitey no one is saying you personally did something. Maybe you did and that's why you feel so defensive. At the end of the day life is full of different versions of this one basic lesson; just because it is not your fault does not mean it is not your responsibility.

Our responsibility as citizens is to care for our citizens. We do not live in a zero sum game and giving help to one person does not mean help is being taken away from someone else.

I am seeing vast ignorance of North American history in here, and it is shameful. I am lucky enough that one of my parents has access to photocopies of original documents that are not allowed to leave the National Archives/Library. The personal thoughts and feelings of the people who governed this place were inhumane not by today's standards but the standards of basic human decency. They did not send the beat and brightest to settle this land, they sent who they saw as expendable. We are a nation founded by drunks, theives, murders and, swindlers. There is very little to be proud of in the creation of our nation. Seems like we could at least seek some pride in how we care for our people now.

---

I am not actually making an argument – I’m simply trying to understand the people who make these claims. From my perspective, they are motivated by self-hatred and tangled up in delusion.

It’s disappointing that so many have been brainwashed and PTSD’d from all the propaganda. They falsely lay real crimes of the late British Empire (which was not Catholic) at the foot of the Catholic Church. They reflexively blame a monolith of “white people” for all the evils of the world, and they get suckered into allowing ridiculous guilt tax to go on unquestioned. This has led to horrible things like CRT in schools and the re-emergence of segregation (non-white safe spaces for students, etc.)

It’s the same with feminism blaming men for all the problems in the world.

It’s a shallow, historically illiterate and completely absurd worldview that deserves to be probed and questioned.

You claim people are ignorant of the history here. Would you like to etch out your argument regarding this?

There is nothing neutral in the world. It’s a constant battle of ideas, some being better than others. Presenting the case that European settlers were all inherently evil and had nothing but a burning desire to carry out genocide against a completely innocent and peaceful group is in itself very extreme, hateful, racist and completely untrue. It’s the same spirit that possess those in our modern era who demand we all just do “politically neutral” things like kneel for BLM, denounce our privilege, mutilate our children and skate around for warm-up with a giant pride flag on our jerseys. The idea that these things are somehow politically neutral is hilarious. They are in fact acts of worship for the new religion of secular liberalism.


If you don't care to elaborate, then let’s bring the thread back on track regarding the OP’s simple observation, which was, as far as I can tell: why do these people (woke leftists) just get to change our anthem because they feel like it?

That is a very good question.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sharon

To get back to some of the original topic: That would be a good change for the National Anthem, but when asked to sing at an event, you sing the Anthem we are expecting , not your choice.

This will probably get me in trouble, but.....:) My brother is a guide who lives on Vancouver Island.....big time fisherman , big time game hunter in Alberta.
It drives him crazy how much free fishing and hunting the First Nations people are allowed. I know they deserve special rights, but imagine if you were fishing /hunting there and your small limit is up, while you watch the First Nations people hunt and fish on, often leading to the demise of a species.
He is not a racist , but I can understand his frustration.

---

This is where-"Stewards of the land" loses any meaning,and turns into hypocrisy in the eyes of many.

By flawed logic,giving a certain segment of society (who also happened to emigrate from Asia over the now-disappeared Bering Sea land bridge thousands of years ago) special treatment and rights over and above the main stream majority does nothing except fuel feelings of hatred and racism. That's where,I believe,we've made a huge error by propagating that concept. It needs to cease,immediately.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

By flawed logic,giving a certain segment of society (who also happened to emigrate from Asia over the now-disappeared Bering Sea land bridge thousands of years ago) special treatment and rights over and above the main stream majority does nothing except fuel feelings of hatred and racism. That's where,I believe,we've made a huge error by propagating that concept. It needs to cease,immediately.

---

I do not think the MSM fuels feelings of hatred or fosters racism there only seems to be a segment of society affected in this manner and nothing will change them. The MSM has been excellent about bringing to light all the facts about residential schools and atrocities committed within.

Back on topic a woman singing the national anthem and changing the words may not have been the best thing to do but she was taking a stance important to her.

So far I have not heard a big fuss about this except from the same elements of society who appear to be angry at everything and everyone.

I like the present wording "O
Canada! Our
home
and
native
land! I think this basically acknowledges its native land.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

I do not think the MSM fuels feelings of hatred or fosters racism there only seems to be a segment of society affected in this manner and nothing will change them. The MSM has been excellent about bringing to light all the facts about residential schools and atrocities committed within.

Back on topic a woman singing the national anthem and changing the words may not have been the best thing to do but she was taking a stance important to her.

So far I have not heard a big fuss about this except from the same elements of society who appear to be angry at everything and everyone.

I like the present wording "O
Canada! Our
home
and
native
land! I think this basically acknowledges its native land.

---

You’re right, it’s not all over the news. It happened and it was talked about for maybe one day and then people moved on.

The indigenous topic is always a hot button topic in any possible way. There’s always a lot of anger, excuses or supposed history lessons but never really any kind of ideas to bridge the gap and make everyone happy.

While this version of the anthem was not what I was taught in school, it was much better than the way some American singers butcher it at hockey games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

I do not think the MSM fuels feelings of hatred or fosters racism there only seems to be a segment of society affected in this manner and nothing will change them. The MSM has been excellent about bringing to light all the facts about residential schools and atrocities committed within.

Back on topic a woman singing the national anthem and changing the words may not have been the best thing to do but she was taking a stance important to her.

So far I have not heard a big fuss about this except from the same elements of society who appear to be angry at everything and everyone.

I like the present wording "O
Canada! Our
home
and
native
land! I think this basically acknowledges its native land.

---

I meant the main stream majority of the entire population of the country,not the media,specifically,not that they didn't do their best to fuel the false dichotomy that all these children were somehow exterminated because of their race like some type of "ethnic cleansing" at the hands of religious zealotry. No evidence,not one shred,has ever been produced that supports that "genocide" had occurred in any form. Every position from media and the government that they advanced is and was patently false.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

I meant the main stream majority of the entire population of the country,not the media,specifically,not that they didn't do their best to fuel the false dichotomy that all these children were somehow exterminated because of their race like some type of "ethnic cleansing" at the hands of religious zealotry. No evidence,not one shred,has ever been produced that supports that "genocide" had occurred in any form. Every position from media and the government that they advanced is and was patently false.

---

Brother I have no idea what your watching on the telly, but even for me with a steady diet of CBC, CTV,CP 24, CNN, BBC, I do not find that they are pushing a genocide belief. But if you look at the definition there is plenty of evidence to point to that would suggest a genocide.

Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. These acts fall into five categories:

Killing members of the group
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

The fact that in Canada these aboriginal children, wards of the State fell into ALL the above categories in one way or another has me believing a genocide took place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Brother I have no idea what your watching on the telly, but even for me with a steady diet of CBC, CTV,CP 24, CNN, BBC, I do not find that they are pushing a genocide belief.

---

Time for hearing aids and glasses, it's a never ending the "native genocide at the schools" is what I keep hearing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fisherman

Time for hearing aids and glasses, it's a never ending the "native genocide at the schools" is what I keep hearing.

---

You could be suffering from selective hearing. LOL

The MSM I am watching is keeping their powder dry until some of the forensic work gets done of these remains, the I think you will see a full blown use of the word.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Brother I have no idea what your watching on the telly, but even for me with a steady diet of CBC, CTV,CP 24, CNN, BBC, I do not find that they are pushing a genocide belief. But if you look at the definition there is plenty of evidence to point to that would suggest a genocide.

---

You've been receiving too much Liberal propaganda from leftist news media,especially,the CBC....(The Official Voice of the Liberal Party of Canada to the tune of $1.3B of taxpayer's money) to ensure their voting bloc are fed the "party line" by the shovelful. If you try expanding your news feeds for opposing views,confirmation bias won't be nearly as prevalent allowing for more balanced and unbiased observations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fisherman

Time for hearing aids and glasses, it's a never ending the "native genocide at the schools" is what I keep hearing.

---

Bingo. Indoctrination of another kind is FULLY underway in the public school system

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Brother I have no idea what your watching on the telly, but even for me with a steady diet of CBC, CTV,CP 24, CNN, BBC, I do not find that they are pushing a genocide belief. But if you look at the definition there is plenty of evidence to point to that would suggest a genocide.

Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. These acts fall into five categories:

Killing members of the group
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

The fact that in Canada these aboriginal children, wards of the State fell into ALL the above categories in one way or another has me believing a genocide took place.

---

You do realize that all those media's are connected and funded by wef players. The same people rolling out the agendas.



Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk

It is sad that the only way we learn is from our mistakes and I'm pretty sure when they started all those programs for the First People that it wasn't meant to be done with malice intent.

As for our anthem ? Maybe it is time to re-write it ? O' Canada 2.0 or how about O' Canada ; The Next Generation ? I like " My Canada, Our home of many tribes !" sounds more inclusive don't you think ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by longpointer

It is sad that the only way we learn is from our mistakes and I'm pretty sure when they started all those programs for the First People that it wasn't meant to be done with malice intent.

As for our anthem ? Maybe it is time to re-write it ? O' Canada 2.0 or how about O' Canada ; The Next Generation ? I like " My Canada, Our home of many tribes !" sounds more inclusive don't you think ?

---

There is no doubt in my mind that the residential school system was developed to assimilate the Native population into the white mans world by eliminating the traditions, language and family ties. This made it easier for us to steal the land and resources of the group we were trying to take from.

Not much difference from the land grabs during the Highland Clearances in Scotland or the potato Famine in Ireland.

Now considering the founding stock in Canada was both Scottish and Irish it was probably seen as pretty normal at the time because we had our land stolen and were dispossessed..

Even the French in Canada had their land stolen by the British again and deportations were perfectly normal back in the day, Arcadians.

I do agree maybe a updated version of the anthem could be warranted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bushwhacker

I am not actually making an argument – I’m simply trying to understand the people who make these claims. From my perspective, they are motivated by self-hatred and tangled up in delusion.

It’s disappointing that so many have been brainwashed and PTSD’d from all the propaganda. They falsely lay real crimes of the late British Empire (which was not Catholic) at the foot of the Catholic Church. They reflexively blame a monolith of “white people” for all the evils of the world, and they get suckered into allowing ridiculous guilt tax to go on unquestioned. This has led to horrible things like CRT in schools and the re-emergence of segregation (non-white safe spaces for students, etc.)

It’s the same with feminism blaming men for all the problems in the world.

It’s a shallow, historically illiterate and completely absurd worldview that deserves to be probed and questioned.

You claim people are ignorant of the history here. Would you like to etch out your argument regarding this?

There is nothing neutral in the world. It’s a constant battle of ideas, some being better than others. Presenting the case that European settlers were all inherently evil and had nothing but a burning desire to carry out genocide against a completely innocent and peaceful group is in itself very extreme, hateful, racist and completely untrue. It’s the same spirit that possess those in our modern era who demand we all just do “politically neutral” things like kneel for BLM, denounce our privilege, mutilate our children and skate around for warm-up with a giant pride flag on our jerseys. The idea that these things are somehow politically neutral is hilarious. They are in fact acts of worship for the new religion of secular liberalism.


If you don't care to elaborate, then let’s bring the thread back on track regarding the OP’s simple observation, which was, as far as I can tell: why do these people (woke leftists) just get to change our anthem because they feel like it?

That is a very good question.

---

I was not trying to single any one person out as an example mearly making an observation about the quality of ideas and arguments being presented.

I agree let's get back on to the topic though. Let's even use one of the arguments presented by someone who was not in favorite of the artistic license taken by the singer. I asked why one group of people get to lay claim to any one peice of land and one of the answers was (I am paraphrasing) they took and and held it; which can be defined easily as "might has right".

How does this apply to this situation? Well this person took a seed of a natural talent and forged it into skill that allowed them to be put front and center above their colleges. In essence they displayed the "might" needed to beat out the other applicants. Do they then not right the right to employ their artist license? Might makes right after all.

This is was artists do, they take artistic license with the art they are performing/making and then it drives discussion. So mission accomplished on their part eh!