Minimum Caliber for deer

I have been told by a person that just took the course for his hunting license, that the new rules state that the minimum calibre for deer in Ontario is .270.
I know that the regs as late as 2012 stated larger than 22 rim fire ( page 24 ) however this section has been removed from later versions of the summary. I have also looked everywhere I can think of on the MNR web site.

I know that the minimum I would use would be .243 ( I also have 22-250 .222 but wouldn't use either for deer ) but I also have 250-3000 Savage an excellent deer cartridge.


If the regulations have in fact changed , when did this happen and how would anyone know about it if they didn't have access to a current copy of the hunter training material ?

I doubt you will see anything if change's are made until the new reg's , usually mid april come out. No sense now as most season's are closed short of small game and coyote? I read what pertain's to my hunting adventure's every year. I'm waiting to see if they did indeed change 2 flaw's I found in them last year, and alway's wait to see the moose group number's. Just under 3 month wait if history serve's correct?

Anything that is a center fire is the minimum

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Originally Posted by LWC

I have been told by a person that just took the course for his hunting license, that the new rules state that the minimum calibre for deer in Ontario is .270.
I know that the regs as late as 2012 stated larger than 22 rim fire ( page 24 ) however this section has been removed from later versions of the summary. I have also looked everywhere I can think of on the MNR web site.

I know that the minimum I would use would be .243 ( I also have 22-250 .222 but wouldn't use either for deer ) but I also have 250-3000 Savage an excellent deer cartridge.


If the regulations have in fact changed , when did this happen and how would anyone know about it if they didn't have access to a current copy of the hunter training material ?

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When I took mine I found that the instructor tends to say their beliefs are the law.. My instructor kept saying "next season they will be changing it.." Always to the way that she had her thoughts/beliefs...

I have a 30-06 and a 243 that I use for deer and wouldnt hesitate using the 243, but that would prob be lowest cal I would use personally.

As of the 2013 Regs there is no minimum rifle calibre. As long as it is centre fire you're good to go.

The only minimum (for deer hunting) mentioned is for shotguns - nothing smaller than 20 ga when loaded with shot.

The thought that anything smaller than .270 would be banned is ludicrous! That would exclude the 6.5x55 which is one of the best deer cartridges available. Not to mention all the .25's and 6MM's.

Don't some WMU's in S/W Ont have MAX calibres around .270 ?

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Don't some WMU's in S/W Ont have MAX calibres around .270 ?

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Yes they do but in most of these cases deer hunting is limited to shotguns, bows or muzzleloaders.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Don't some WMU's in S/W Ont have MAX calibres around .270 ?

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The hunting regs read as, for small game you cannot use a caliber larger then .270. This would mean to me that if there was an open rifle hunt the hunting regs say you can use any center fire.
This may or may not line up with bylaws.

I was thinking maybe the OP misunderstood or the Instructor got it twisted...

It is unlikely and if a minimum had been established you would find a fact sheet on the MNR site or it may be published in the Gazette. Besides this would be in conflict with other programs/efforts like the apprenticeship program and efforts to get physically challenged or petit hunters involved as recoil is an issue. just my 2 cents...FB

Seen a guy shoot one with a 223 at about 75 yards. It totally layed deer out there was more damage to deer than I even seen when deer was shot with 300 rum.

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Originally Posted by mark270wsm

Anything that is a center fire is the minimum

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I don`t think the .17 Remington is legal, is it? I thought it was .22 centrefire minimum, but you may be right.

It says center fire. The fish and game act needs to be updated

If they make changes, they should go by energy, or better yet momentum figures instead of caliber size.....

Be carful of what we wish for slug guns could be banned during shot gun season,as a slug gun has lands and groves making it technically a rifle also it states a 275 for rifle making 270 (277) not for use in most areas

They do allow the .270 because the bore is .270"; the bullets are .277".
By definition, shotguns remain shotguns even if rifled because they use shotgun ammunition. It's not technically correct but that's how they roll.
The point about energy figures is well taken; it is ludicrous to allow a .25-06 and restrict the use of the .30-30.

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Originally Posted by mark270wsm

It says center fire. The fish and game act needs to be updated

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Updated your right: I can deer hunt in a rifle permitted wmu with a group of hunters using 30-30,s or what ever caliber they wish with most of them capable of five or more rounds, but it is against the law for me to pull the plug out of a rifled slug gun. Does not make sense!

i love my .243 for deer!

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Originally Posted by hunter391

Updated your right: I can deer hunt in a rifle permitted wmu with a group of hunters using 30-30,s or what ever caliber they wish with most of them capable of five or more rounds, but it is against the law for me to pull the plug out of a rifled slug gun. Does not make sense!

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How many deer do you want to kill out of each herd that comes by? Isn't three enough?

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Originally Posted by Pat32rf

How many deer do you want to kill out of each herd that comes by? Isn't three enough?

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Well said good sir!!
If we all had to start out with single shots maybe the spray and prayer's would have learned how to shoot.

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Originally Posted by oaknut

Well said good sir!!
If we all had to start out with single shots maybe the spray and prayer's would have learned how to shoot.

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Ha your so right, everyone should just take all those four round clips and through them in the garbage!

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Originally Posted by hunter391

Ha your so right, everyone should just take all those four round clips and through them in the garbage!

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It's just a security blanket anyway... How many people have actually emptied 5 rounds on a big game animal ??? Few, I expect.

With all due respect to our Hunters Safety Educators. I acknowledge that they do a great job, and have a very tough time of it with respect to making sure that everyone gets the course, and indeed passes the exam, knowing most of the points.

I have noticed some very wrong interpretations of the regs being instilled in new hunters however.

I had a friend who took the course last Feb. I then spoke with him about doing some grouse hunting in some of the areas I've hunted since I was a kid. we got into an argument, since he had been told by the instructor that hunting from a road was prohibited....of course not true. The hunting from an unmaintained road, is of course allowed, and includes forest access roads, logging roads etc. But I had to show it to him in the regs before he'd believe me.

Hunters Ed teachers have a lot of info to pass on. And in a lot of cases, rather than actually get sidetracked from their course curriculum by discussion of reg interpretation, they simply give a firm answer.

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Originally Posted by HuntCamp'r

It's just a security blanket anyway... How many people have actually emptied 5 rounds on a big game animal ??? Few, I expect.

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I would bet lots do every year. There are tons of irresponsible, crappy, "hunters" out there.

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Originally Posted by mark270wsm

also it states a 275 for rifle making 270 (277) not for use in most areas

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Wrong.....

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Originally Posted by mark270wsm

Be carful of what we wish for slug guns could be banned during shot gun season,as a slug gun has lands and groves making it technically a rifle also it states a 275 for rifle making 270 (277) not for use in most areas

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Maximum caliber of .275. Which makes .270 just fine.

It passes a slug down a rifled barrel yes. But the cartridge is still a shotshell, not capable of making the same pressures, and velocities as a centerfire rifle cartridge, which is why they specifically still allow shotgun in those areas. Hardly could ever be classed as a rifle.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

Maximum caliber of .275. Which makes .270 just fine.

It passes a slug down a rifled barrel yes. But the cartridge is still a shotshell, not capable of making the same pressures, and velocities as a centerfire rifle cartridge, which is why they specifically still allow shotgun in those areas. Hardly could ever be classed as a rifle.

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Although I agree in regards to actual properties and capabilities, I don't think it would be too much of a stretch.... I think the term "rifle" is all about the "rifling" and not about the style of the cartridge. When the "Shotgun Only" hunts and Regs came out, It was all about limiting capable distance. It was Buckshot at 50 yards, Then the Slug came along and took it to 100 yards. Now the sabot is here with 200 yards...

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Originally Posted by HuntCamp'r

Although I agree in regards to actual properties and capabilities, I don't think it would be too much of a stretch.... I think the term "rifle" is all about the "rifling" and not about the style of the cartridge. When the "Shotgun Only" hunts and Regs came out, It was all about limiting capable distance. It was Buckshot at 50 yards, Then the Slug came along and took it to 100 yards. Now the sabot is here with 200 yards...

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Correct. But even a sabot out to 200 yards will not have much energy at a mile, which is the main impetus behind allowing shotgun seasons in more populated areas. The chance for carry over even with a saboted slug is much less than a round out of a typical centerfire rifle. ( except a cartridge like a 45-70 which comes pretty darn close to a 3" 20 guage sabot, at least in the first 500M).

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Originally Posted by brent

Wrong.....

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x2 .. .Regs state

"A person hunting small game may not carry or use a rifle of greater calibre than a .275-calibre rifle "

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Originally Posted by RTRonthefly

x2 .. .Regs state

"A person hunting small game may not carry or use a rifle of greater calibre than a .275-calibre rifle "

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Found this on another Ontario Outdoors Website

Question 63:
"You may not use a rifle of greater calibre than .275 ...for hunting small game in the counties of ...".
This would infer that it is legal to use a rifle commonly referred to as a .270 Win to hunt small game in the specified counties. However, the actual projectile diameter is .277".
How does the MNR define calibre (projectile diameter, bore before rifling is cut, groove to groove, land to land, etc.) ? & on what value does the MNR determine compliance (actual measurement or the data stamp on the barrel (ie. .270 vs .30-30)) ?
Asked August 22, 2000
Answer from the MNR
The MNR stance on this section is that we use the nominal calibre of the firearm in determining compliance. That is, even though as you have correctly suggested, the actual dimensions of a .270 cal. shell are .277, we accept that rifle as being a .270 and therefore treat it as a legal firearm within the restricted areas.

Back to the OPs original question.... I've not heard about any pending changes, but the current reg for deer is "Centre-Fire - Yes" and "Rim-Fire - No" (Chart on Pg 24)

So - in essence, you could "legally" hunt deer with a .17 Hornet. Correct???

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Originally Posted by HuntCamp'r

Back to the OPs original question.... I've not heard about any pending changes, but the current reg for deer is "Centre-Fire - Yes" and "Rim-Fire - No" (Chart on Pg 24)

So - in essence, you could "legally" hunt deer with a .17 Hornet. Correct???

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In essence, sure.

You can drive a car with your feet too, but it doesn't mean it's a good idea.

I was looking at the Quebec hunting regs today and there minimum caliber for hunting deer is .243, seems reasonable.

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Originally Posted by hunter391

I was looking at the Quebec hunting regs today and there minimum caliber for hunting deer is .243, seems reasonable.

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That would mean I could take along my old 25-20 Marlin and 32 S&W Favorite for "spare" guns as well as my 243....

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Originally Posted by Blackwolf

In Alberta the smallest you can use for any big game is a .243. But in Ontario you could probably use a 22-250, in rifle season only. My son uses a .270 for elk, and it takes down deer nicely at a few hundred yards.

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So for any big game, so .243 on moose is any different then a 22-250 on deer?

A 100gr Partition will instantly take down a standing moose using a head shot from a rest. Wouldn't try it with an 80gr soft point......MUCH rather be using a 270......

Taking a headshot is unethical in my opinion. Every seen an animal with its jaw or nose blown off?? Not a nice way to dye.

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Originally Posted by Pat32rf

A 100gr Partition will instantly take down a standing moose using a head shot from a rest. Wouldn't try it with an 80gr soft point......MUCH rather be using a 270......

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Don't worry, I see the humour in your statement :)

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Originally Posted by brent

Taking a headshot is unethical in my opinion. Every seen an animal with its jaw or nose blown off?? Not a nice way to dye.

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If I am shooting at a range of under 100yards, the animal is browsing, using a gun that gives me 1/2" groups, sitting in a computer chair in a blind with a gun rest, I do not hesitate to place a slug just below the ear of my quarry. If anything is a little off, then it will make a neck shot, knowing that either the jugular or spine will bring an animal down pretty quickly. If the animal is moving too fast for either of these shots then I will wait for the next beast to come along. I have all day and no one is counting on me to split a kill with them.

For average joe hunter, I'd recommend no less then .243.

For an experienced hunter with the patience and skill to use a .22 centrefire, I dont see the issue.