Deer and deer hunting mag raised this question a year or two ago and got a lot of blowback on it - mostly from bow hunters. So if its all you've got, would you take it?
I have an acquaintance who shot a nice bull moose (his first kill of anything) with this shot using an xbow. It was a bit of an accident - he was trying a quartering away shot and the bull moved. But he thinks its a good idea now... How do you fix that?
I personally would not...but then again I am not comfortable aiming for the pumpkin either...........and to be honest I bet there is a lot of hunters out there that do not even know where the femoral artery is, let a lone shoot at it!!!!
Not some thing I would try. and when that young man has to chase a moose around for a few days with an arrow in it's a.. he may then be convinced.
i am not tryin to ruffle feathers, seems like its easily done tho. I am just not personally strugglin enough for food or to harvest a deer that badly that I need to gamble on taking shots that have to be placed perfectly in order to ensure you kill the animal rather then wound it. I think its one thing to hit an artery such as the femoral accidentally, but def a whole new can of worms to intentially aim at such a small area.
And on a side note what kind of hunting situaltion would occur when all you have to aim at is the femoral artery, would it not be better just to wait it out that extra second and hope the animal presents a better shot of some sort?
It all depends on how sharp my spear is.
That's the first thing I thought as well. I bet a lot of hunters would have problems correctly identifying the exact location of the heart on big game animals.Quote:
Originally Posted by twostroke
Deer stopped behind trees, heading away with a hound coming. It's a now or never opportunity...and it does happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by twostroke
I highly doubt the guy taking the shot is starving to death, so if it was me ....and it wasnt, but my judgment call would have to lean towards the "Never" end................and lets be honest sounds like it was a lucky a#@ shot to begin with so why try and take it again if ye dont have to
Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
I have seen deer shot here (not on purpose, deflection off a tree) and heard of them as well, I do not think that it would be something that should be tried as the artery is such a small target, similar to other shots that I will not mention.
The boiler room has many different vitals with lots of room for error (based on current firearm and bow accuracy), the femoral not so much.
It would not a shot that I would teach people to take.
arteries bleed out nicely :
bang flop..no fuss...
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps9132237d.jpg
You sure the "bang flop" is from the artery hit and not damage to the spine?Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
I've shot deer directly through the heart, and it is not always a "bang flop".
To answer the OP's question, I would not shoot for the femoral artery. I would wait for a clear shot to a larger area - preferably heart/lung. If such a shot doesn't present itself, so be it.
Ok, here we go again, Is it ethical?
In a situation like that, I'd take a shot with a camera. As twostroke indicates we don't need the meat that bad. I've passed on a lot of deer, elk and sheep because I couldn't make the shot. Neck shots are different, I consider them hitting a vital area. I'm sure there are lots of situations where you hit somewhere else, I'd rather not take the shot. Remember I'm lazy, I don't track wounded animals if I don't have to.
Lots of small places on an animal where you can be lucky or deadly accurate and kill it.Like leg arteries.
Off a hair though and wounded animal.Which is what we should be trying to avoid.
Miss by a few inches on a double lung shot and still very dead,very fast.
I personally have never shot a moose.Yet called one in to 15 yards and never got more than the walking away angle.So never shot.
Do I wish I could have hit the artery and got it?Sure.Think about it all the time.
But would rather have those thoughts than a day or two in the cut trying to blood trail it and not be successfull.
Just my thoughts.People are free to do as they choose.But marginal shot hunters are not allowed in our gang.Just a camp rule.
Doesn't have to be all camps.
Do they ever bleed, but you do have to hit them.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
that's the point.....neck = lung (air)+heart (blood)+spine (immobility)....doesn't matter what is hit...it's the perfect trifecta...I often hit all 3 with the .50 cal. Never had one take a step..drop like an feedbag.Quote:
Originally Posted by rf2
I don't know about you guys, but I know, before I pull the trigger, that the bullet goes where I put my crosshair...why is that so hard for guys to comprehend ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
you should have trust in your skills and your gun that there is no doubt, that when you pull the trigger, the bullet is going to go EXACTLY where the crosshair is..so place it where it's going to be most effective and take the shot.
Yup... agree x4Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
I'm not sure where werner is going with this but often the femoral artery shot is considered to be a shot to the hindquarter . I don't like to waste meat personally and if that shot is taken with a rifle your going to lose pounds of good meat . .
TD
So no one ever wobbles crosshairs,bumps sights or misses that spine or artery by a couple of inches or so?
Agree its a great shot if you hit it.
Oh how I sooooooooooooo much agree Mike .Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
TD
Up in 55B a single shot during deer season is an oddity.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
A lot of bush and mostly driven deer.
This thread was only posted as a factious response to Fox's 'Head Shot' thread.....school yard kids game :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 400bigbear
Not quite MP, trying to see where people draw the line on difficult shots...apparently some draw the line at head shots, some draw the line at femoral artery shots... next up... the liver.
After liver you can do the texas heart shot....Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
Guess thats the best part about these glorious animals and sport of hunting.......you can be a horrible shot and get lucky and still bring one down............but I bet even the best shot out there has fudged a shot or two and either led to a much less then desirable track job or possibly a loss or wounded deer
this is why I choose to wrestle them to the ground and choke em out...no wasted meat, no way of missing and no way of escaping my wrath! Suggest you all give this technique a whirl ....results are amazing
got to be someone out there to one up me and say they have killed a deer with nothing but their bare hands and the BUTT OUT tool!
What about the nostril, I heard of some guys shooting just under the nose so that they suffocate :)Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
I have a buddy that shot the 'sack' off a buck....hunter induced birth control !!
see I dont know why know one finds you funny ...that right there is kinda comical hahahahahah
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Sorry, I thought your point was "shoot them in the artery and you will get a bang-flop", which is...unlikely. I guess you are making your same old point which is "shoot them in the neck to get a bang flop" - which doesn't answer the OP's question.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
the OP didn't have a question...he was just playing silly :)Quote:
Originally Posted by rf2
It's a pretty low percentage shot. I don't see me taking it under everyday game hunting conditions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Hey! I did that! It was an accident, a deflection. I was lucky. Two bounds and it was dead, tracking job was easy... blood sprayed everywhere, huge pool where it landed, then him.
I have also taken out an artery where it bled out internally, very little blood to track, I watched him drop.
I do not think any artery shot is worth the risk, a bread basket, lung and heart are the only shots I attempt with my bow.
What the sack shot Skypilot ? LOL I never tried that one but bet ol buck won't get up from that either . LOL
TD
THAT is how we hunt here sir . We hunt to eat,, not to just kill . We wish to recover the most meat after the shot . Some don't get it .. Some of us harvest and look at is a harvest to eat . We want it easy to the freezer and beyond tracking for 100's of yards or miles . It's always a challenge but the story should never be about how far you tracked to recover ,, it should be how little you had too . Head / neck shots do immediately , Guaranteed . It is not the shot for everyone to take but all who do ... its a done deal .Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot
TD
Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot
I'll probably get flamed for admitting it, but in the camp I used to hunt with, yes I would have taken the shot. We used hounds and there were a dozen other guys to help with tracking if needed. If you saw part of a deer, you shot at it, as long as you knew it was a deer. There was no such thing as "passing" on a shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
That being said, it was not really my thing. I don't hunt with that same group anymore. Nowadays when hunting on my own or with a smaller group, I don't take those shots. Boiler room every time, if I don't have a decent shot, I wait for a better one or I don't shoot.
I've seen the results of a femoral artery shot on more than one occasion though. It does the job, but not nearly as fast as a shot to the other vital areas.
I RESPECT your post and point of VIEW you have lad . There is nothing wrong with the boiler room shot . Nothing . If i have choice of the two or three and clean shot ?. I'll take the one that drops them every time is all . Less risk .Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
TD
I assume you are you hunting with a gun? How about with a bow. As you saw from my post, an arrow through the Jugular was quick; but an accident. Do you consider the neck viable target for those of us who use a bow? I have turned down that shot, I have always been told the heart or lungs.Quote:
Originally Posted by 400bigbear
Yes..I have taken a nice buck with a G5 broadhead at about 15 yds...arrow slice the windpipe and carotid....it didn't however drop him in his track (no hydrostatic shock/damage to the spine). He ran about 40 yds leaving a 3' wide blood trail on the white snow.
Very effective shot for a bow.
Ok DOUG . Yes my head /neck shots are with a gun . To answer your question on where I shoot using a bow > yes its heart / lung shot . An arrow cannot make a skull blow up like a bullet either . I shoot bow too . Shot deer with it too . Different kill .This argument has been ongoing Doug .. Some just critricize us who can hit the neck or head and drop them on the spot . Were the bad guys supposedly .Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug
TD
TD
I'm out to harvest .. It's never an accident Sir . I use a bow not to be sporting .. I use it to eat and longer seasons it allows to harvest . Do any of my fellow hunters only hunt to kill ? I think not . I personally hunt to eat .Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug
TD
I am not questioning your ethics what-so-ever, I also harvest to eat, I much prefer deer to other cuts of meat, unlike some I do not make it all into pepperettes and summer sausage. I want steaks and roasts, having a quick kill with no waste is important to me. I only use a bow, and I want the animal, deer in this case to drop as quickly and closely as possible. My only artery shots were an accident, and a FU on my part. The first I believe the right arm of my crossbow came into contact with a pack hanging from the tree, the second I attempted a walking shot at 5 yard and hit him back, he ran; but dropped in sight. I am more interested in learning about the neck shot as an opportunity for myself going forward. For the most part I will continue with trying for a heart and lung hit; but if that does not present itself the neck maybe an option.
If in a tree stand it could work as well, if you are directly over top. Deer dropped. Spine and artery cut.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug
Well Doug ,, I will get called and whacked on me saying this, but take that boiler shot ALWAYS when flinging arrows . It's the weapon .
The rifle or shotgun ? practice but alot has to do with how you shoulder the gun and how it feels . It's hard to explain but when it feels good you will know . I can hit the body on a partridge on the run at times but shoot his head off with my deer rifle . lol Yes " werner " an old guy " is still alive to this day '" seen me do it including whacking deers eyes out on the run . He shook his head too .
I just point at what I'm shooting at , I look at the eye . If you can see the " eye " you can kill it even in bow range . Think about the eye . Understanding
" the eye " . There is no firearm on earth ,, you will miss with if you can see the eye ..
I have heard about this shot but have yet to do it . Would I ? Likely in an emergency situation . This is with a bow . ? YES spine , artery, etc . Gun ,, back of the head .. I actually have never thought about this shot in 39 years of hunting .. Has anybody ?Quote:
Originally Posted by robster
TD
Nope. Never. Unless it was a survival situation, and then I would probably be focused on trapping small animals and birds...
Too much room for error in NOT killing the animal. I MIGHT take a brain shot if I was close enough and that's all I had, but to start targeting the spinal/arterial shots? No way. Boiler room is ALWAYS my target of choice. Brain if close enough and I had NO OTHER option.
.....................
No worries TD. I've spent enough years in your style of camp to have a load of respect for how it's done. Seen some of the older guys make some amazing shots with iron sighted lever guns. Got pretty good at it myself too.Quote:
Originally Posted by 400bigbear
What it boiled down to for me was that although I was expected to take certain shots, I didn't quite feel right about taking them. My feeling is that if you can make the shot with confidence, then take it. That includes head/neck shots if you're good enough. I just know that I'm not good enough to do it consistently. Boiler room (for me) gives me the best chance.
What amazed me about that style of hunting was that although you might think so, very few deer were ever wounded and not recovered.
Thank you SIR . Everything you said I just could not articulate as well . Yes some of us can make that shot and I've paced out many of the old lads that smoked me on my best day . I've made shots too that even the old lads shook their heads at when they went down but they were there , . The thing is , you knew . If you heard a shot in area that lad was standing in .. it likely was down .Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
WE take shots and expect every and all bullets to hit where we aim . It is not about " hail marys " . Dumb rednecks, we are, that often shoot open sights There have been some long shots across fields but most of our shooting is close and fast ahead of dogs,.
ALL I care is to have the confidence to shoot and make that shot .. scope or otherwise . You lads yappin at my nemisis Mike PAL . He flattened his deer on the spot , Worst thing is even this ol trapper cannot critique his clean kill and shot .. SAY congrats to MIKE . A good shot and clean , humane kill ..
TD
When I am up in my blind I occasionally have stray dogs put deer thru the valley. I shoot a Ruger #1, 243 single shot. When a deer comes running thru I don't even pick up the gun.
When I am hunting with others then my 44 is in my hand.
Holy Crap..nice words from BigBear....must check...YUP :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 400bigbear
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps57ea0c76.jpg
Two times I had deer jump the shot on me well doing deer drives with the crossbows one was a 8 point buck he spun at the shot and the arrow hit him right in the brown eye dead center .i could not believe the blood trail he made it 15 yards and was stone dead the other jumped at the shot a got the. Arrow right In the back leg knee same thing crazy big blood tral and he fell with in 20 yards .i would never aim for these kind of hits but some times stuff happens that is why we us the sharpest broad heads we can .dutch
I Wouldnt take the shot for exactly that reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by 400bigbear
dano.