Would my pack have to be hunter orange? As it would cover the orange on my back? Would make sense.. However haven't been able to find anything that requires me to wear orange back pack..
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Would my pack have to be hunter orange? As it would cover the orange on my back? Would make sense.. However haven't been able to find anything that requires me to wear orange back pack..
Because I couldnt find an orange pack I liked, I bought a cheap orange vest ($10 or so) and wrapped it around my pack. Undid the straps and put them through the arm holes and it stays on pretty well.
No the pack isn't considered in the regs....but since, like all regs, it's for your own safety you might consider, that when your wearing it, your not as visible.
I actaully bought a Blaze orange pack for bow hunting. I hunt deep in the bush and you never know who might be out there hunting small game so I wear it to/from the stand.
So if you're wearing a backpack blocking the visibility, I would think it not be legal.Quote:
A hunter orange garment and head cover must be worn. The hunter orange garment must cover a minimum of 400 square inches (2,580 square cm) above the waist and be visible from all sides
As suggested, get a cheap vest and wrap it around your pack.
They do sell blaze back packs, but since the one I like is in camo, and I use it during seasons when orange isn't required, the vest option works best.
I agree it is definitely much safer to have the orange.. Never thought of a cheap vest wrapping it..
Safer, absolutely, and would also keep you legal, as your blaze has to be visible from ALL sides, so if your backpack isn't, and it's on your person, you just cut that out of your 400 square visible inches from all sides.Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
I have done the vest/pack thing as well as found a blaze pack that, although not my favourite, works well enough that I use that for deer hunting.
I have never agreed with hunter orange. In the province where I live, we do not need hunter orange at all. You say its a safety thing, but 4 times the amount of hunters were shot this year in a province that hosts 2 times that of Alberta, namely Ontario. Good topic though. Safety and why it fails some places and works in others.
Since Alberta prides itself on how much beer we drink, maybe you guys need to drink more beer :)
That's due to the fact there's a lot of "sound shooting" that happens. A twig snaps or a leaf falls and the next thing, WW111 breaks out. Ran into that in the Minesing swamp 20 years ago, I just happened to be with a CO having a chat, when it happened.
Another thought maybe a fluorescent orange rain cover for your pack many retailers have some version and you could just apply over your favorite pack camo or other wise and save the cost of a second pack...FB
I use a sling pack like this. No trouble to slip on and off. I see something, the strap comes apart in the front and it slides to the ground. No pack no extra weight. I use a GPS set on track mode so I can just walk back on the same track to get it.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31cn-FD%2BmdL.jpg
That's a real slick pack where can you pick one of those up
I just sent the question to "Ask a CO". When or if I get a response, I'll post it here. Personally, I've never worried about it, I think it's splitting hairs. Laws aren't always reasonable though. I don't feel any safer wearing 400 sq inches than I did just wearing a blaze hat before the regulations changed. "Sound shooters" don't see blaze vests, hats or backpacks.
At a trading post off hwy 129 just North of Thessilon,ON. It has a better feel when drawing my bow, or shouldering my rifle/shotgun then a regular day pack. Says it is made by Luggage USA and you can get them off Amazon. When they are in stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Back 2 basic
I could be mistaken but last years incidents were mainly the result of negligent discharges, I think one happened while a party member was swinging on a running deer. No amount of hunter orange is going to help if folks don't practice basic gun safety. Unless your orange is bulletproof:joker:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman
My back pack has built in orange cover. It is stored in special pocket.
I had a conversation with our local CO,last year,discussing this very subject. He said that the FWCA only cites caps,vests and/or jackets that must be of proper size and color and visible from all sides. No mention of back packs is made in the Act,therefore,is a non-issue because packs are removable. No charges would be laid.
Calling it a sling pack, and citing it's attributes doesn't detract from the fact that it's a "man-purse";)Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Actually discussed this in camp last Fall, as I wore the hat and vest, but had a regular pack on. In low light, a couple of the guys noticed there wasn't much visibility from behind.
I'm looking at a blaze orange small-pack for next season.
Now in all fairness, we hunt private land, and have comms, but that doesn't mean that my hunting location won't change to where there are other hunters.
I dont often carry a backpack when hunting but when I do I just pin a big square of blaze on the back of it that I cut out of an old torn vest.
I did something similar. While I do have an orange back pack, my preferred one is camo. I found a blaze orange bandana at Bass Pro some time ago for a few dollars and pin it to the shoulder harness and let it hang. Just have to flip it up for access to the pockets.Quote:
Originally Posted by mox72
You need to have 400 sq in of blaze orange minimum above the waist and visible from all sides. If you have a tiny minimum vest and they cover the back of it with a backpack then if most likely will remove your minimum visible area to under 400 sq in and may also remove the visible from all sides component as well. On the other hand if you wear a full blaze orange full length coat then the backpack would not reduce your minimum visible area to under 400 sq in and the material at your upper shoulders, back of your arms, lower part of your coat would be visible still, therefore not removing the visible from all sides component of the regulations.Quote:
Originally Posted by TurkeyRookie
If you have a really nice camo backpack that you really like, you can still use it, but depending on your blaze orange garment underneath you may want to either clip some blaze orange on to your pack or get a cover for it.
I actually want to get a frame pack for backpacking and I would rather it be camo then blaze orange. I will be taking this pack and finding some blaze orange material and affixing it to the back of the large pack with safety pins or clips of some sort for added safety.
Good luck in your hunt for a pack, but I understand that blaze orange ones are not the most numerous.
Never thought about it this way - I think you're onto something. The only Set Fines are for 'Fail to wear hunter orange while hunting/trapping'.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
http://www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/how-...schedule-17-7/
The regs establish the garmet to be worn, there's no mention of "obstructed" visibility. What is the difference between wearing a camo backpack, or sitting in a camo blind ? As long as you are wearing the appropriate amount of hunter orange. There was some talk about making hunter orange on blinds mandatory, but that hasn't happened yet .
Trimmer 'a response is spot on !!
You have to have at least 400sq in. visible plus an orange hat, if your pack is covering it you're not legal, that's like saying if you have the proper orange on and then put a camo coat over it, it's legal because the coat is removable, by covering your orange it's not visible from all sides....
Unless you're a fat guy......Quote:
Originally Posted by bdog
Which I am...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
GTG then!Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
if you consider the fact that Ontario has five times the population of Alberta and 40% more area, and probably 3/4 of ontario's population resides on about 1/4 of the area, there is a much greater density of hunters in southern Ontario. Add to that the fact that quite a bit of the area of southern Ontario is considered urban and unhuntable, that density is even higher. Orange makes sense for safety reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackwolf
I have an old green milsurp bag that is big enough for a knife, lunch, ammo etc. I just picked up a can of blaze orange paint and gave it a shot. Been holding in for many years now.
The law requires a minimum of 400sq. inches of coverage of hunter orange. It does not say how many square inches must be visible at any given angle or at one time. Obviously the more exposure the better. So if wearing a back pack still allows some visibility of hunter orange from any angle then it’s legal.
I agree that hunter orange has now become a necessity with so many trigger happy yahoos out there. Hunter orange doesn’t guarantee that your shooting window is safe if it isn’t seen. Here in lies a complacency that can haunt you if you train yourself to shoot if no hunter orange is visible in your shooting window.
Old school still applies of identifying your target, awareness for possible blind spots existing in the direction of your shot. Just these 2-simple guide lines that dictate when a shot should or should not be taken is worth their weight in gold.
The only thing you can’t really control is an unexpected ricochet. But you can control its lethality range or eliminate it by properly hitting your intended target.
Ed
And the Red Green award of the day goes to.......this guy!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat32rf
wrap a cheap vest on it you can never be too safe
Found this at Cabela's.
http://www.cabelas.ca/product/37923/...ack-rain-cover
Yes you have to put orange on the backpack you have to compensate for the orange covered my the pack that you would normally see without it
My pack comes with an orange shell to put over it just for that reason! It is a Badlands pack!
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron86
No, you do not.
You do need to have hunter orange visible from the back though.
If you have a coat on then the back of your arms and your hat on your head would be visible, that is enough.
The total amount is 400 sq in, which is not all that much at all, your chest is probably more than 400 sq in, 16X25 is 400 sq in.
My understanding of the law is that you have to show 400 inches total in the torso area and in addition an orange hat.
It says nothing about torso (although that is assumed since that is the easiest spot to get 400 sq in), just total amount and visible from all sides.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawtree Hunter
If you wear a backpack with a blaze orange hunting coat on, have someone take a look and see if they can see Orange from every angle, if so and your have at minimum 400 sq in of orange and an orange hat you are legal.
Orange camo is not allowed, it was to be written in the regs specifically, unless you have solid hunter orange on that is at minimum 400 sq in and visible from all angles.
That would be incorrect information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
It states.
Key words being "above the waist" which, would be your torso.Quote:
A hunter orange garment and head cover must be worn. The hunter orange garment must cover a minimum of 400 square inches (2,580 square cm) above the waist and be visible from all sides.
It could be taken to mean other parts "above the waist" but I don't know anyone who has a large enough head (literally) to get 400 sq" on, even then has to be "unbroken" so no cut outs for your eyes :)
Could rule out arms as it's not "visible form all sides", unless you never put them down :)
Hang on a second here. 400 sq in is 20x20. Most men's chests are easily bigger than that. So you've got your coverage done there. I don't know about most people's backpacks but the orange on my vest's shoulders is far wider than the straps for my backpack. There's no way anyone is going to convince me that you cannot see my shoulders from behind me. Which side of me can you not see the orange anymore?
So long as you can see some blaze orange from back front and both sides on your torso, you're fine (plus your hat).
Still haven't heard back from the "ask a CO" on this, so I might be proven wrong...
I understand the idea of doing everything you can to be 100% legal, but sometimes over-interpretation of the regs goes a little too far. I'm confident that the intention of the law in this case is simply to make sure that big game hunters wear a hat and a vest at minimum. Using another vest to cover your pack, blaze orange packs, etc., is just going above and beyond what is required. If you feel that if makes you even more safe, have at it.
Hunting is supposed to be enjoyable, don't get hung up on over-interpreting things. Read the regs and use common sense. There are so many gray areas when it comes to fish and game laws that if a CO was just out to lay a charge, he'll probably find something anyway.
Does anyone have any real examples of warnings or fines due to blaze orange being covered by a backpack? I've never heard of any, and we've run into a few in the field while deer or moose hunting with backpacks over vests.
Well if you are following the rules just to say you follow the rules I guess you could argue ad Trimmer did...
As for tg e guys pinning flags or vests or covers/shells etc over their otherwise coloured vest...don't you find they snag up on things?
I have a nice blaze orange pack that is a fleece type outer material. No extra snags, quiet material. I like to go off trail and hate when things are loud or get snagged.
FW
Why would anyone want to compromise their personal safety by covering their hunter orange vest with a non hunter orange back pack, at least have enough common sense to pin a piece of blaze orange material onto the pack! Just because you think you're right doesn't make you bulletproof
Neither does blaze orange,no matter where you wear it. If someone can show the section and paragraph of the FWCA where it says we MUST wear a blaze orange back pack or where it says,specifically, that wearing a back pack that partially covers the blaze orange is prohibited,please show me. I know it's not there,anywhere,therefore,it's NOT illegal and NOT required. Anything else is simply hair-splitting or over analyzing and completely useless rhetoric.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlmorgan
I think it can be summed up in one word? ANAL! There seems to be a few that fit this description on more than a few topics?Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
From all the posts, and what I read in the regs, the short answer is No. Personal choice prevails after that.Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
I have a back pack ( forget the brand off hand) but it's all camo and the rain cover for it is BLAZE orange which tucks up in the bottom of the pack held closed by magnets......best hunting pack I've owned. I'll try and find the brand and throw it up here. Also a nice bonus is that it's ment to carry your bow or gun on the back of the pack also.
Cheers Ian
If I truly thought that my personal safety was being compromised by covering a small portion of my glaringly visible orange with a backpack, then I've got much bigger problems. Common sense would have me looking for new hunting partners or a new place to hunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlmorgan
which part of hunter orange vest didn't you seeQuote:
Originally Posted by GW11
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbelly
I disagree, regs state how many square inches of blaze orange you must have. If you cover it, then you don't meet that criteria. If it did, I would wear blaze orange underwear and undershirt, and be legal and wear full camo on the exterior.
Whether a CO would actually do the calculations to see if you meet the requirements or not, is subject to debate, but intentionally covering a safety item and thinking you still meet the requirements won't end well in my opinion.
So explain how your reasoning would apply to sitting in a camo pop up blind with no visible orange at all. It's 100% legal.Quote:
Originally Posted by FishHog
Again, the law is to make sure hunters wear a blaze hat and vest at minimum, no need to over think it. Extra safety precautions are your choice.
Still haven't heard back from the CO on this but if you read through the thread and know some history here, we already have heard from one.
The same way it would apply to sitting in thick bush. The law pertains to you, not what your in our around you. But by your theory I can just wear blaze under my camo and be legal.Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
To each their own, but I caution anyone who thinks you can wear a backpack that (safety aside) isn't orange, might end up with a fine if you get a grumpy CO. I'm not overthinking anything, just meeting the intent of the law so I don't have any extra hassles.
I picked up a orange modular load bearing vest at the Toronto Outdoors show. I will try it out this spring bear hunting and see how it does. In the past I wrapped my ruck sack with an orange tarp to be visible from behind.
Found the name of mine its an ALPS..... Here's the link, awesome pack!
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/alps-hunting-pack
OK,then,but,that grumpy CO will be hauled into court where he will be made to look like a complete idiot because wearing a pack OVER your orange jacket IS NOT illegal. He'll REALLY be grumpy then won't he? LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by FishHog
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishHog
Do you have more than 400 sq inches of blaze orange on your body?
Do you have on a blaze orange hat?
Do you have blaze orange visible from all sides?
If you answer yes to all three of these you are legal in the eyes of the law, backpack or not.
If you hunt in a blind, behind a deadfall, in a tree or in some trees you are still wearing the required blaze orange.
Based on your views your gun must be blaze orange as well if you carry it with a sling.
Are you one of the people who tells me I need to have a blaze orange helmet for going to and from my tree stand as well? (you do not need one unless you are getting off and going to shoot with your helmet on, then it is your hat)
Hey, don't forget. They work for us, they are civil servants......Just saying, no your rights and you'll be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by FishHog
As for hats, does a headband meet the definition?
Yes sir,it sure does. I have the same hat as in your avatar photo. Mrs.T made a hat band from an old orange vest that didn't fit,anymore. It works great with a couple of safety pins,visible from all sides,good to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
That is the exact reason I asked. ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Just make it a wide blaze orange band.Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
If the CO can see it before he gets up to you and you point it out then I doubt you will ever have any trouble.
My uncle uses a winter coat given to them by the municipal government he works for. The coat is blaze orange with an "X" on the back and strips on the front of reflective material. He is the best person to be walking out of the bush with, he glows with atv and truck lights, perfect and not expensive either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
I didnt think the reflective material was allowed becuae it can be mistaken for an animals eyes in the dark.
3in x 14in rectangles on the frontQuote:
Originally Posted by mox72
3in x 14in cross on the back
No way can you mistake this for deer eyes.
All of this on top of a full length blaze orange jacket.
Here we go again. Nothing in the regulations prevent this. Perfectly legal, and smart IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by mox72
I dont disagree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
I just thought there was something regarding reflective material in the regs, however there is not.
Not sure where I heard that reflective material is discouraged, probably here.....
No doubt,it's being ultra-safe,but,it's like walking around in the woods flashing a mirror in the sun. How many game animals do you think will notice that and quietly disappear? If that's not an issue for a hunter,have at 'er.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmoose
Most of my hunting is out of my stand, so not an issue for me. I want to be seen by anyone else who might be lurking in the area. A lot of road hunters travel my area and when I come out my stand, it's dark by the time I hit the road. I darn well want them to see me.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
I've heard a few stories of guys being hassled over construction style vests, which I think is a bit ridiculous. For that reason, I try to wear coats, vests, and hats that were intended for hunting.
If it is your hunting vest then a fine could be issued. When covering a packsack it is not illegal.Quote:
Originally Posted by mox72
Construction vests are mentioned specifically in the regs as they are considered mesh in the regs. Coat's are not. Carries a set fine of $100. Better to pay for the $10 vest at BPS is you ask me.
Here's the actual reg for the sake of clarity. You run the risk of a coat being considered 'broken u'p but I would never wear a construction coat for the reason mentioned above (reflective like a deer's eye if seen through thick brush). Same reason I wouldn't wear a red and blue hat out turkey hunting. Nothing says you can't do it just because it's legal doesn't make it a good idea...
26. (1) The holder of a hunting or trapping licence shall wear a garment in hunter orange and a head cover in hunter orange while hunting wildlife,
(a) during the open seasons for deer, elk or moose, other than the seasons restricted to the use of bows only; and
(b) during the open season for bear. O. Reg. 665/98, s. 26 (1); O. Reg. 529/10, s. 6; O. Reg. 49/11, s. 3 (1).
(2) The garment referred to in subsection (1) must be solid and not open mesh clothing with a minimum total area of not less than 400 square inches above the waist and visible from all sides. O. Reg. 665/98, s. 26 (2).
(3) Clause (1) (a) does not apply to a person who is hunting migratory game birds other than woodcock. O. Reg. 665/98, s. 26 (3).
(4) Clause (1) (b) does not apply to a person who, during an open season for bear,
(a) hunts small game or wild turkey;
(b) hunts wildlife, other than bear, authorized by a trapping licence on his or her trapline;
(c) hunts moose, deer or elk during an open season for moose, deer or elk that is restricted to the use of bows only and that runs concurrently with the open season for bear; or
(d) is in a tree stand while hunting bear. O. Reg. 49/11, s. 3 (2).
(5) In this section,
“hunter orange” means a daylight fluorescent orange colour with a dominant wave length between 595 and 605 nanometers, excitation purity of not less than 85 per cent and a luminance factor of not less than 40 per cent, but does not include camouflage hunter orange colouring. O. Reg. 665/98, s. 26 (5).
X2Quote:
Originally Posted by mox72
And I guy at our moose camp got a pass a couple year ago, the mnr officer told him to not wear it anymore. I find that ridiculos too...but I never used one so I'm not concerned by it
Not a mesh vest, it is a full solid coat. We have been checked a number of times, they really like his coat actually, have asked where he got it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RackHunter
This part I'll never understand about why blaze orange camo is unacceptable. It needs to be rescinded.Quote:
Originally Posted by boozyleroux
I agree. It's allowed in many other provinces / states.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
All it does is add a bit of break up when you're stationary.
In. Sask you have to wear a full head to toe outfit of blaze orange or white when hunting big game.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Be glad it never caught on here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
On the other end of the spectrum, in Alberta you dont have to wear ANY. Be glad it never caught on here, lol.
Boy - when I think of how I use to go hunting back in the late 50s - when I got out of the army I had some field jackets, pants and caps - they were all brown - I didn't have anything else to wear - couldn't afford to buy anything else - the pile cap even had fur on the ear flaps - a lot of guys use to wear whatever they had - a few had red woolen jackets but not many guys had them - I was basically dressed like a deer - but people did get shot in those days - that's why they gradually required the orange - it wasn't so bad during buck season because you should at least look for horns - but during doe season - if it's brown - it's down -
Part of the problem probably lies in where company X makes the hunter coat using x amount of hunter orange blended with another colour, then company y uses even less hunter orange and more other colour. So, keep the playing field even, keep it all one colour. Poof Done. It's intended to save your butt from the unconscious hunters that shoot at things they can't identify. I'm sure the critters aren't lined up at the polling station pawing and hoofing their opinions.
Laws aside, I had my wife make a slip on blaze cover for my day pack. It isn't a mater of trust for the guys I hunt with, it's because we don't typically sit in a stand for the day, in the area we hunt we are often on the move, and even without that, heading back at the end of the day when visibility is decreasing but still legal light, I want to be visible. Also, the cover is waterproof, good on those rainy days.
For anyone still following and interested in the MNR's response on this, here is the response that I received:
Hello,
I'm curious about blaze orange requirements when wearing a backpack. Obviously, a backpack will cover up a significant portion of the blaze orange vest. Would you consider this as having less than the required 400 sq inches of visible material? Are there other variables to consider? I suppose a 250 lb man would have more visible blaze than someone who is 150 lb. It came up in a discussion recently and would like to have some clarification.
Thanks,
Greg
Hello,
Thank you for your inquiry. We apologize for the delay in responding to your email.
As long as you are wearing the required 400 square inches there should be no problem. You should remember however that wearing a backpack that covers a large portion of your hunter orange makes you less visible to other hunters. You may choose to purchase an orange backpack or cover your existing backpack with a piece of orange fabric or an orange vest.
We hope you have found this information helpful. If you require further assistance contact the Natural Resources Information Centre toll free at 1-800-667-1940.
Regards,
i wear the vest around my day pack. Works good
Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
Thanks for the follow up, and I guess I was wrong :)
then again, this is one persons perception of the law, unfortunately that changes, person to person, area to area.
Thanx for the info guys. I think I'll look for an extra best maybe for my pack or something... But now I'm not as concerned about legalities.
I was wrong....... but there is a chance I still may be right! Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by TurkeyRookie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wahoo
lol :)
I guess if anyone ever does get charged, they could print this out and bring it to their court date, the ask a CO told me I could! :)