I just like to know Can I take legally shotgun (with slug) with me for safety when I go blubbery picking month earlier than the bear hunting season opens in that area (VMU 27)
I just like to know Can I take legally shotgun (with slug) with me for safety when I go blubbery picking month earlier than the bear hunting season opens in that area (VMU 27)
Depends where. Hard to figure it would be legal since nothing is
open. Better to buy some bear spray. Up north in the bush not sure you will have any
problems. Bear spray to me makes more sense.
Why not . ? There are hunting regs and there are disharge bylaws and as long as it's daylight and your not in a provincial park I've never heard of anything .
TD
I'D say ya you can. As long as your legally allowed to discharge.. If anyone asks you were thinking if target shooting...
I wouldn't recommend carrying it while berry picking. If caught by a C.O. you would likely be charged with hunting out of season, etc. If it is in your camper, vehicle, etc. you're good to go.
I would go with the spray and perhaps a bell so you do not surprise a bear
Can I bring my blueberry basket bear hunting?
Your not huntung if your carrying a gun... There is no law that says "you can't carry a shotgun in the bush when its not bear season" read the definition of hunting. Be a hard pressed co to prove your hunting.. Is looking chasing.. Waiting for...
It would depend if anything was in season at the time for the WMU location you are in. For example where I live coyote would be in season so I could bring my shotgun. The area I camp in WMU 48 no as nothing is in season during that time
So.. Since no game is open your saying its illegal to Cary a shotgun... In a bush? I'm trying to understand this logic.. Can you not Cary a rifle/shorgun in northern Ontario on crown land.. And fire it during the summer when your hunting license is expired? I do know that during deer season there are restrictions yo the maximum size you can carry (if not hunting deer) buy have never read or heard of anything saying before or after (pick animal here) season.. Or anything like that..Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
I think it would depend on the CO you encounter..Lets see here,in a blueberry patch with a shotgun with slugs???? hmmm could very easily be seen as hunting imo.Not saying that is the intention but you may be before a judge trying to explain it.
If you run into a CO who goes by the old rule book that said "possession of a gun in an area that game inhabits is prima face (or whatever) evidence of hunting", then you might be in trouble.....I grew up during a time when the rules were fewer but spelled out in a clearer manner. We could not carry a gun in the bush if there was nothing legal to shoot! Of course we COULD carry a pistol in a shoulder holster if we had the right paperwork.....
Although legal, try explaining to a CO that your not hunting when you are in a field with a shotgun that's loaded.
I choose my battles, I keep a gun with me at my camp and I carry it in the truck. But if I was out durring the day in a field picking berries and there is no open season for anything.... A CO is going to look at you and say. Looks like your hunting, your in an area for hunting and don't look like your target shooting. Just isn't worth the argument.
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Originally Posted by topher
I'm 99% sure that you would be legal to carry your gun but if you are looking for protection while picking berries bear spray is your best bet think about it where will your gun be while you are picking berries on the ground 15' away or up against a tree 25' away bear spray would be on your belt ready to rock and it won't kill anyone with you if you need to use it just saying you may not know exactly where you can safely shoot a 12 gauge slug in an instant after looking down for a long period of time.
Why,blueberries won't attack you.Quote:
Originally Posted by alfoldivandor
Its one of the rare instances where your guilty till proven innocent. Seems reasonable enough for the law abiding individual however how does a CO differentiate a poacher from a fatalist. I'm sure when the number of blueberry picker attacks go up it might be different. For now make noise, use a whistle and carry bear spray. Leave the shot gun at home. Really don't want a nervous and jumpy person in the woods with a shotgun since that rustling bush may just be another berry picker.
These type of comments always come up and the best advice is to call the MNR and ask. They will give you the correct answer.
So I guess if im out walking with my gun and doing some plinking in a totally legal scenario, and come across a patch of blueberries I better not stop to pick some.....
Finsfurnfeathers is right. In hunting you are not innocent until proven guilty. You have to be able to prove without a doubt you are not hunting. If you were clearly target shooting in an area that allows discharge thats one thing. Picking berries with a shotgun is going to be hard to explain to a co and if they dont believe you that its for protection only you will be charged with hunting out of season. If you do take your gun with you i would make sure i was wearing bright non hunting colors definitely leave the camo at home.
Unless you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are not hunting/poaching you could be charged.
It's not hard to understand or see it through the eyes of a CO. If you happened upon someone in let's say a blueberry field and you have a loaded shotgun sitting there or slung over your back loaded with slugs and at that time there is no open season for anything, nearest pit is several km's away. Well up to you to prove your innocent.
Not worth the hasal to me.
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Originally Posted by bdog
I have a camp on the Magpie river in Dubreuilville On. and when I'm there I'm always plinking with some kind of gun and that gun goes with us on our walks,in the boat or where ever we feel like bringing it, it's not for protection it is for plinking, I have been stopped by the MNR on numerous occasions and have never had a problem, not even when they seen it in the boat.....
I think if you were in the blueberry patch with the gun slung over your shoulder and a pail full of berries and was picking, you'd be a lot closer to convincing the officer of the gun for protection than if you were standing in the patch with the gun in hand loaded and no pail of berries around!
Yes but is it a 22 or a shotgun loaded with buck shot and slugs?
But yes your both right it is legal as long as there are no bylaws. But it is still up to the CO he can charge you and it is up to you to prove your innocence.
Your in a hunting area with a shotgun loaded with slugs, buckshot, bird shot or a 270 try and explain to a CO your not hunting, he doesn't have to believe you.
Now if you have a 22 mag or 22 rimfire and you say you were going to be plinking quite believable.
Slugs, birdshot or 270 in a berry field where deer and grouse hang out. What do you think.
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Originally Posted by bdog
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Originally Posted by redd foxx
I've carried everything, from a 22 on up to my 30-06, the wife and daughter are also legal and on occasion we are carrying more than one gun, and have never had a problemQuote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Not saying you will get into trouble. But you could if the CO feels for any reason he could give you a hard time, confiscate your gun what ever. Yes you would probably win in court but it would have turned into a very crappy trip.
I do take my guns hunting mostly the 22 for plinking and a shotgun at camp we sleep in tents (we do get bears not far from us). But I make sure to not put myself in any position that could look bad.
Just my 2 cents plus I also spoke to a CO about it before.
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Originally Posted by bdog
I call Bull S**T on that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by bdog
If I was berry picking in the bush I'm probably Wearing shorts and a bright colored shirt my orangutan dog stomping around the brush and rolling in poop. It would be pretty hard to say I'm after a bear.
Try and buy him off with berries.
What if it was covered by a gun sock ?
If you have it in a gun sock you wouldnt have time to get it out to defend yourself against a bear attack. Maybe if the bear stopped to go at your dog. To each their own but if it was me i am not about to risk losing my hunting privileges, my pal, my firearms, my vehicle etc. so i can pick blueberries with a shotgun loaded with slugs. I do alot of camping on crown land in areas with bears and i do take my shotgun and some buckshot but i keep it cased in the car. If i wanted to take it with me on a berry foraging expedition id be wearing obvious non hunting gear and bring a hand thrower and some clays and loaded with target loads and hope like hell the noise would scare any bears off. Then again i wouldnt even take a gun to go look for berries.
If the CO isn't a reasonable man then certainly the JP will be . Enough bear attacks have occurred in the last few years for the explanation to sit right . Bear spray doesn't always work . I carry an axe but wouldn't bother me in the least to carry a rifle . Some people worry too much . Your odds are likely higher to get charged for having an open beer while resting inbetween picking .
TD
To the proponents of bear spray - it sure makes a nice condiment for the bear.
To the people who voluntarily restrict their own rights - a right that is not exercised is a right lost.
You may want to check out the list below (I have listed one example that stands out):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._North_America
Jacqueline Perry, 30, female September 6, 2005 Wild Perry was killed in an attack at a remote campsite.[41] Her husband was seriously injured trying to protect her with a swiss army knife, and later was given a Star of Courage award from Governor General Michaëlle Jean.[42] Ministry of Natural Resources staff shot and killed the bear near the area where the fatal attack occurred.[43]
Like I said your legal, 100%. But the CO can charge you. Don't argue with me about it. He has the legal right. What are you going to do if he says he's writing you a 250 ticket? Tell him you refuse to except it?
As for a CO not checking you out for have a gun uncased in a boat out of season, pretty sure he would check you and if he didn't he probably isn't doing his job because that would not look so good.
But hey your legal to carry the rifle. But in all honesty some on here sound like their attempting to almost challenge a CO. That almost always goes bad. I preferr to carefully choose my battles.
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Originally Posted by Back 2 basic
Its all about what the CO thinks your intent is.
If there is an open season for any game then you need a license for that game to be packin.Otherwise your good to go.
Since your odds of being attacked by a bear or encountering a CO while berry picking are both extremely slim, I'd say it's not worth worrying about. Carry it, or don't, nothing is likely to happen either way.
Statistically, you should be more worried about being in a car accident on the way to the berry patch or struck by lightning while picking berries.
Very true
Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
I can carry a shotgun down main street if unloaded, (in my sandals and wife beater.)
I dont see why he cant carry an unloaded shotgun while berry picking.
can't in Russell, there is a by law.
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Originally Posted by 3Wheelerdude
Why would the have a bylaw against wife beaters and sandals?Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Sorry dude, call it what you want, but you are wrong......Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmoose
Have you ever seen GW in knee length socks with sandals while wearing a rainbow coloured tank speedo . ? Of course there will be a bylaw for that . In Russel descrimination is alive and well they say .Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
TD
Oh... Ya... I saw pictures of pride parade last year... That was gw?Quote:
Originally Posted by 400bigbear
Your right bdog . Say you were in a camping situation and going out fishing . Your not supposed to leave your firearm un secured . Sure would'nt be secure in a tent now would it . ? I would be more worried about that charge .Quote:
Originally Posted by bdog
TD
Yes methinks it was topher . I saw same pic on FB and recognized his car which the woodpile fell on .Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
TD
I had a mask on you couldn't tell it was me. ;)
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Originally Posted by 400bigbear
No.. We recognized the gut... And the fly's circling your head...Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
LMAO . oh my . I guess it's going to be one of those snow days again when we roast GW . :D LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by topher
TD
Just wondering... "What has four wheels and fly's?"Quote:
Originally Posted by 400bigbear
A fairy quad motherQuote:
Originally Posted by topher
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Originally Posted by sambo
very clever
So I CAN bring my blueberry baskets bear hunting???
Only black berry baskets.
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Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy
Yes I have....Quote:
Originally Posted by 400bigbear
Yes you may if in season , Bear baiting is allowed in Ontario .Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy
I can't respond to that...Quote:
Originally Posted by sambo
But the answer was bb truck...
Oh my, you poor man . When I saw the pic on FB I screeched and ripped the pc power cord out of the wall . It would have been a nightmare to see in person .Quote:
Originally Posted by line052
TD
I'm not commenting to pull anyone's leg - believe me - but - just for your information I can go blueberry pickin and can legally carry my AR15 if I wanted to - what a difference - its called freedom - one other thing I noticed - it seems so many of your laws are unclear - people and including any CO should know what the law is so that everyone involved in a particular situation knows what to expect - there should be no one getting charged with a crime unless a law is broken and the arresting officer should know what the law is - this business of charging someone and then letting a JP straighten out the situation is just plain wrong - this business of hoping the CO is in a good mode is for the birds - when I go into the woods - for whatever reason - I always have a gun with me - just in case -
I think the problem is.. More so that people are scared to do anything with a gun.. The culture is different here... People don't leave their house with a fire arm (typically) unless they are hunting.. So the norm is too assume a guy in the bush with a gun is hunting.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
Also a lot of us are scared to wxcercise out rights and freedoms.. And bow down to the police.. That's partially why our rights and freedoms are stripped from us. Can give many examples.. (RIDE programs being one) randomly being checked and stopped and asked questions such as "where were you" and "where were you going",is infringing on my rights of free travel.. Fine I understand that raking impacted drivers off the road "is for the greater good" but the question should be "anything to drink?"
Yes are laws are a cluster ****, I push our firearms law to the limit, when I'm right I know I'm right, and if it comes down to figuring it out in court, so be it, if more would do the same it would help straighten things out pertaining to the law, there are so many cases thrown out because of the misunderstanding of the law on the officers part.
Cert.
club level handgun inst.
club level range officer
member of,
WAP
CSSA
NFA
OFAH
Rhine Danube Sportsmen
Gosfield N sportsmen supporter
That was you?
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Originally Posted by line052
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Originally Posted by 400bigbear
Bring your shotgun and don't even worry about meeting up with a CO. How many of them are really left to patrol anyway after all the cuts they've had lol.
There's about 165 CO's in all of Ont.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-wanShinobi
Your 100 % correct . I know what I'm allowed and not . I don't like a hassle either nor will I get into a throw down with a peace officer while in the field but prefer to embarrass him in court if that what it takes for one to learn . I've made my point with a couple of CO's and OPP before, on guns and did not get obnoxious but explained my point . Told them to lay charge and let me on my way or arrest . All came back after radioing in and sent me on my way . Do it respectfully ALWAYS . Keep your cool . Comments I got back .. " You know your stuff ". . A peace officer hates nothing worse than being embarrassed on the stand and being chastised in the process . They learn a lesson too . Be cool and don't act outraged and full of bluster . Give them some slack and way to back out with dignity as representative of the law . Gun laws and game laws often are how they are interpreted and discretionary . Many peace officers do not know how to proceed especially if they have never come across the situation before . REPEAT .. Give them slack and be respectful .. Go after the jugular in court .Quote:
Originally Posted by bdog
TD
Most peace officers have dozens of pieces of legislation they have to enforce. There is absolutely no way they can be thoroughly knowledgeable with more than 2 or 3 of them.
Can't carry or possess a gun in Russell or is the by-law against discharge of a firearm. They are different issues.Quote:
can't in Russell, there is a by law.
http://www.oodmag.com/community/imag...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by 3Wheelerdude http://www.oodmag.com/community/imag...post-right.png
I can carry a shotgun down main street if unloaded, (in my sandals and wife beater.)
I dont see why he cant carry an unloaded shotgun while berry picking.
Sorry - I don't buy that - a peace officer should know all the laws that pertain to his job - just like everyone else is expected to know their job completely - if they don't know their job they will be making false arrests and on the other hand letting criminals get away with crime - they should go to training sessions that outline the laws that they will be dealing with - we need to expect the best from them - otherwise we won't get it -Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
EXACTLY Sawbill . Well said .Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
Legislation and laws will never be perfect as long as we as mere humans make them, and need to have them enforced by mere humans who interpret them . I can't imagine being a CO today with such low numbers and support covering areas during staff holidays etc . and having ABSOLUTE knowledge of those WMU's laws or RESTRICTIONS to enforce . People should think about that when dealing with a peace officer in any area before they start going off on them . Then there are township bylaws and exceptions .
TD
With that being said, how can the government and it's agents reasonably expect society to know everything they can or can't do?Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
Should have stayed out of this one Sawbill, the masses are starting to gang up on you?
And who are these masses may I be so bold to ask ? Armchair hunters ? Armchair fishers ? Or couch potatoe or , anal outdoor magazine readers that on their best day could not harvest a meal let alone have the endurance to swat flies picking a basket of blue berries ? You do know that blackflies polinate blue berries I hope .Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmoose
TD
Probably all of the above? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by 400bigbear
I understand and kind of agree with you but on the other hand as citizen we are supposed to know and respect all the laws so why they should not apply to the same rules knowing it's their job to do so?Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
We can't always . It's mostly about common sense and reasonable expectations of intent . Alot of antis etc think that by just wearing camo and carrying a stick were out to kill something . Others think they can circumvent the " intent " of the law by digging and finding loopholes . Technicalities . An honest man does not need a technicality to state his case as a rule . An honest man may use it to win his case for self preservation in this day and age but that was never the intent . JP's are laymen as a rule . Different then law society judges . They actually see through Bsheeters often and understand the PEOPLE . Most if not all Wildlife and Game act charges are not considered CRIMINAL in this province . I hate, that but it is what it is at the moment .Quote:
Originally Posted by B Wilson
Sawbill had the badge and swung his bat in his time but rumour has it he made discretion calls too , so I hear . Would he have busted you carrying a shotgun while berry picking ? I personally don't know but would not worry about it till the situation arose while picking blue berries . You guys do know that CO's think like poachers don't you ? Some take up the field because they would be the greatest poachers .
TD
LMAO Bushmoose . I should have known better than to fire one back over the bow knowing you . LOL:D your bad . :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Bushmoose
TD
With all due respect seabast . Could you , me , or every other fisher or hunter know the code and all the subsections ? We know the " general" if we read the regs . I've never seen or heard of Co's or OPP using anything beyond the General Regs to lay a charge unless CODE and subsections need to be brought in for serious offenders .Quote:
Originally Posted by seabast
TD
Sure ya can. But your not keeping it with you for bears your keeping it with you for raccoons ;)