Hunters have to realize that the first bullet may be the only one they will have a chance to fire at the big game before it disappear .....
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Hunters have to realize that the first bullet may be the only one they will have a chance to fire at the big game before it disappear .....
You're not a waterfowl then:)
AND..no matter how well you shoot on a bench rest ..it has no bearing on how well you can shot free hand in the field. :)
Ya, if I get a nice buck in front of me in the controlled hunt and I can't find a tree to rest on he's got a 50 - 50 chance:)
I can't get a clear shot FOR the darn trees!
One of the reasons why I love ML hunting.
I think most hunters on this site strive for quick, clean, humane one shot kills.
I prefer lots of holes.. Find it twnderizes the meat. More.
Who needs a grinder when a dozen pieces of lead randomly placed makes hamburger anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
This is something that cannot be emphasized enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Often I see two camps. The "Theres no bench in the field so why should I sight in my gun from a bench" crowd. And the "I only ever shoot from a bench" crowd.
The proper way to shoot is to sight in your gun from as steady a rest as you have. In an ideal scenario it would be a vice that the shooter doesnt even touch. In this manner we know exactly what the gun is capable of. This is unlikely though, so a good set of sand bags is suitable.
Once the gun is sighted in, then the hunter should shoot free hand, and from a variety of positions. In the field I will shoot from a sitting position if I can do it.
As I target shoot on private property what I do is load my magazine and as im walking to the target stop and take shots from various positions and distances, chosen at random. 100m, 70, 50, 35, 10, sitting, kneeling, standing, prone etc.
I do have slight disagreement that is has no bearing though. In my mind the average hunter doesnt get the amount of trigger time that he/she should. ANY shooting is helping the hunter learn his/her gun better. Things like trigger control and breathing etc. For this same reason I think that bore sighters shouldnt be used by the average hunter. They are better off using a box of shells to sight in as opposed to firing a handful and putting the gun away until the hunt.
I have never had the expectation that I would ever get more than one shot. I have watched too many animals run knowing full well that the situation and geometry conspired to make it a "No Shot" scenario. For this reason I have this mnemonic that I run thru routinely while hunting... "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast".Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
To make this happen, as blasted_sabre described one needs to "Train the way you hunt". In the military they say "Train the way you fight" and it is the basis for all performanced based training. Get your tool of choice sighted in properly. Then practise, practise and then do it again.
This does not mean you have to be shooting real bullets. This activity can be done dry fire. There is no harm to dry firing centre-fire rifles so go to it. If you still doubt me simply load in a spent case and let the firing pin strike the spent primer. This will allow you to go slowly through the mechanics of shooting (even in your garage) without scaring the neighbours.
Bring the rifle up to your cheek, sight target, breath out and stop breathing... squeeze completely on the trigger and hold it in the most rearward position for a half second.
There is a great series of videos on YourTube taught and narrated by Ryan Cleckner of the NSSA (He is a former Captain in the US Army Rangers, sniper team lead and good narrator).
You can read about his creds in this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Cleckner
Snap Caps are cheap enough. I have 4 of them and use them regularly to practice shooting my bolt action.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGearyFTE
I feel that you should also practice bringing the rifle up to shooting position from your carry while wearing your cold weather gear to form habits that will allow smooth and quick shouldering with out snagging the stock on your clothing.
I generally take a few guys out through the summer here and there for some target practice and a stump shoot. One thing I like to do is show the average shooter is how they and many others are afraid of their gun. I will load their clip with two live rounds and a dummy round then when the dummy round is chambered watch the flinch. It is a good way to prove there is a problem that needs work. Its amazing to me how probably 75% of people flinch at the butt of even a small bore firearm.
Whatever you use confidence is key, but outside the range emotions come into play and one shot won't cut it in every scenario, difference between shooting and hunting .
I rather hunt beside a guy with a 243-270 that shoots often and has confidence than hunt beside someone with a 338mag that shoots a handful of shots once a year. I don't understand the reason behind having a big canon that intimidates it's owner to the point they don't want to shoot it but once a year a week before hunting season. From what I've witnessed at my old gun range is the guys with the big canons have a hard enough time shooting well from a bench and the guys with 243/260/270/308 make fools of them. This is not every single guy, but damn near all of them. Some people have the ability to shoot big guns like myself, but I have since gone back to a 270 for long shots because of how easy and enjoyable it is to shoot and nail the 10 ring way out there.
I wish more guys would have the mentality to make the first shot count instead of dumping the whole mag in a panic.
I've seen what happens with "hunters" like this. Completely banned from our group, in fact we have some serious explaining to do if there's more than one round in there and if we hit a shoulder.
the way you say "Hunters" it just seems to me you aren't one. and though I agree with what the posters have to say. what I want to know is just what is your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by alfoldivandor
Absolutely your first shot should count, after all thats the whole idea right........ Especially when hunting deer i expect to only ever get one shot at the animal, more importantly one ethical shot. Ive seen all to often hunters shoot and miss a standing deer to then empty their firearm at the now running deers ! If you are able through some miracle to hit the running animal seeing as you couldn't hit it standing still you've likely only wounded the animal which you will likely never recover. I understand getting excited when you see a deer or "buck fever" but guys who shake and breathe uncontrollably while taking a shot is unacceptable. Get excited, take some deep breaths, relax, take another breath, hold and squeeze! Now get really excited you humanely harvested your deer. Im not perfect by any means but if your going to hunt do it right, practise practise and practise more. Become an expert shooting the gun you will hunt with, mistakes happen so do your part to limit any variables. I have only harvested 7 deer so far but all have been clean one shot kills, 2 with rifle and 5 with archery equipment.
LMAO Topher . Your a very bad man . I think your just being a cheapskate by using less wrapping paper . LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by topher
TD
General camp attitude can have a lot to do with it. If your camp puts out a dozen guys in a line and then some guy runs the dogs to them the hunters are often expected to shoot at anything that comes thru at any speed. They rationalize this by saying that they have a lot of time and effort involved in the drive and you should at least try to make a kill. A newby can get a lot of flack for passing up running shots and feels like an auto is the only choice of rifle.
Different styles of hunting for sure. Using dogs to push bush is illegal here. I have never shot at a running deer walking ok but in our camp, one shot one kill period!! Sure mistakes are made, but we do strive for the one shot one kill rule.
So we're all agreeing that your first shot should count - why do I never hear a single shot on opening day. Always 3-4-5-6-7? Somethings not making sense here. My deer hunting mentor's mantra was 'your second shot should be on it's way before you know if your first one hit'. Pretty hard 'making your first shot count' on a deer running through trees 50 yards away - it's not that you can't hit the deer - it's can you not hit a tree.
In my experience most often deer being run by dogs do stop, if you have the patience to wait and not shoot at them on the run.
Hahaha yeah. They stop when they run out of blood or are three concessions away. I dont know about you. But first shot is tough to make count when a deer is out over a mile, moving or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Larson
Its just the monday morning jitters I tell ya.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
With a slower dog behind them, yeah sometimes. With the dog on their heels, not so often. I always found that an overly loud grunt, or just "hey" would sometimes stop them for a shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Larson
I guess my point is that if you assume every deer is not going to stop, so you start blasting as soon as you see it running in to view, then you'll never know if it would have stopped, had you quietly maintained your composure. What keeps them running is often not the dogs, but the sound of unloading clips behind them. Deer can cover ground much more quickly than almost any hound. From what I've seen, when hotly pursued, deer generally take a number of long leaps, then stop for a second or three ...smell, look, listen and repeat. Very rare that they continually go full tilt for very long. If you can hit a deer on the move effectively, then go for it. If not, don't assume you have to try because you think its your only chance.... wait and see what happens. Even if 50% run on through instead of stopping, .... ask yourself what would your miss/wound rate be on running shots?
You bring up some good points here Larson, especially in the first sentence. Patience and experience goes a long way when it comes to shooting deer in front of hounds. I remember going through my first few seasons without even seeing a deer. When the dog finally ran one to me I was so worked up and so eager to shoot it that the idea of waiting for the right moment never even occurred to me. It took a few embarrassingly missed deer before I was able to stay (somewhat) calm and wait for the right moment to bring the gun up and shoot. I managed to make a few good shots (ahem... lucky) on running deer but got a little older and wiser and learned to make it a last resort, if at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Larson
The point that I made earlier was referring to one particular dog that we had that was so bloody fast, he was almost nipping the heels of the deer as they went by. He was a good deer dog, just way too fast. You would almost prefer that he ran the deer to someone else so you didn't have to explain why you missed or didn't get a shot. It's a lot nicer when the deer is well ahead of a slower dog and picking his way along carefully, as you described in your post.
You probably already do something similar to this Larson, but for anyone else reading, here are a few tips that helped me start being one of the guys in camp that got to sit on the preferred watches rather than "where old Bill Senior shot that buck in '67":
- Be ready from the minute you get set up until you are notified that the run is over. Many times the deer will be pushed to you before the dog even starts to make noise
- Take a few minutes to quietly trim a shooting lane or two (if allowed on the property) to provide you with a clearer shot at the deer trail
- When a deer comes into sight, quickly gauge where he is headed and how long he will be in sight, what happens below is within a few short seconds
- Pick an opening (shooting lane) that he is headed for but don't move or start to bring up the gun until he gets close to it
- If he stops before reaching that opening, take the shot if possible because he may not stop again
- When he reaches the opening that you have picked out, or slightly before, make a loud grunt, whistle or yell "hey deer", hopefully he stops in the shooting lane and you can take the shot
- If he isn't going to stop, as a last resort, pick another opening in the direction he is headed and shoot as soon as he steps into it, with a rifle inside 30 or 40 yards, don't worry too much about calculating lead, just shoot when the leading edge of the deer enters your sight picture, or.... let him go and hope he is heading to your buddy down the line, just be prepared for the ribbing you will take back at camp for having watched the deer go by
- Even if you made a good shot, the deer will be running on adrenaline and will likely keep going, don't assume that because he didn't go down that you have missed, keep shooting as long as the deer is in sight and it's safe to do so
- Have previously formulated excuses prepared for why you missed or couldn't get a shot, but most dog-men will run a complete CSI on the area and will know exactly what happened, where the deer came from and where the deer went, so your excuses will only serve to amuse them
- Don't count out using a scoped rifle, a low-power scope on a quick-handling rifle will help you pick out shooting lanes through the brush, the real old-timers will raise their eyebrows at you, but they'll eventually accept it, especially if you start dropping deer
Hunting deer in front of hounds is not for everyone. In recent years my group has been doing far more stand-hunting of relaxed deer, but the big-woods hunt with hounds is a tradition that I'm glad to have taken part in over the years. Every deer hunter should try it if they have the opportunity.
Wow, long post but I've been up all night at work and it's been slow....
Well written Greg and anyone who is seasoned running hounds for deer would agree .Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
TD
The clothes you wear also when practicing should be the same as what you wear in the bush. This past winter being my first time coyote hunting due to the extra layers on I had to hold my gun a little differently to see the scope.
Ive been fortunate enough to have grown up in a country that allowed me to have the opportunity to shoot at countless numbers of live game. The first shot is the only one that counts, period. Ive shot plenty and also missed more than my fair share, one thing that i always come to reflect on after a missed shot is that 99% of the time it was a rushed shot, and realistically it didnt have to be, if the animal was unaware of my presence there would almost always have been another opportunity. The big negative of taking a rushed shot, aside from the miss or potential wound, is disturbing the other game in the area, chances are if you miss on your first shot youre not going to see much else for the rest of the day. One thing an old fella told me that has stuck to this day, and almost always worked: dont just aim at the animal, aim for a specific point. Sounds simple, but its actually a lot harder than it sounds. If you can master this your first shot will always count.
Reminds me of the old bull and the young bull, on a hill, looking over a heard of cows.........:ashamed:
Thats true but not practical. I shoot year round, from -30 to +30. I shoot from a full parka with multi layers underneath to shorts and tee in the summer, and every temp in between.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goosesniper
Shooting at all is what is important, and most hunters dont do enough of it.
practice ....practice ....practice.....
and then practiceQuote:
Originally Posted by alfoldivandor