In the north bay nugget today Nipissing First Nations admit they are exceeding safe harvest limits.......But they are having meetings at the end of the month for FN residents.But the netting will continue in my view
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In the north bay nugget today Nipissing First Nations admit they are exceeding safe harvest limits.......But they are having meetings at the end of the month for FN residents.But the netting will continue in my view
Just give it time im sure the netting will stop . This is the view of a lot of NFN members it will happen
Could you post a link to the article?
hopefully you are right piker for the sake of all those that live in the area
That is a scary statement.
Quote:
“The adult population is severely stressed and there was a low success rate of the 2013 spawn. Very few young of the year were found during the fall assessment.”
The recovery of the walleye population rests in the three- and four-year-old fish, according to the letter.
“Unfortunately, to this point in the season, the data we have collected suggests that the commercial fishery is targeting those fish, specifically in the 300 millimetres to 400 mm range. We are projecting that by the end of the season irreparable damage will have been caused to the walleye stocks in those year classes.”
Translation to some ... "Better get as many as you can while the getting is good" - bet the take doubles from here out
I couldn't read the articles as I was getting a stupid pop-up to 'watch a video to get 1 hour of access - whad up with that?
Its a short commercial. Advertisement like anything else in life. Making $$$Quote:
Originally Posted by Wahoo
just click on pop up then you are good to go, just a way for the nugget to make money
I don't get that at all. I use firefox with the no script add-on that allows me to block or allow any script.Works real good but can be a pain at times figuring out which script to allow to see a video. Worth it though IMO for safer surfing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wahoo
Cheers
I fished a few tournaments up on Nip this year and saw or caught walleye each time. Last couple years we didn't run into them. I also caught a few decent eyes on Nosbonsing and Nepewassi. You guys have plenty of options to catch delicious fish, why don't you leave the Natives alone and start pointing fingers at the governing bodies affording us these opportunities as I couldn't catch a Walleye within 1hr drive of my house when our waters used to be teeming with them.
The facts are out there for all to see, and by pointing out that the walleye fishing in your area has dried up is not going to repair the problem. Unfortunately overharvesting by netting on this system has been eroding a once great fishery for years. Five years ago a friend of mine was on Nipissing for a weeks angling. He too came across a large section of net washed upon the shore loaded with dead and rotting walleye. Like most issues with native groups the government will do its best to avoid it at all costs. The problem is that in the long run the tourism for that area suffers, as does the fishery, and the local band. I am not just pointing the finger at those who are doing the netting, even though they must shoulder a great deal of the blame but also our provincial leaders. All parties must come together, accept accountability, reduce the harvest quotas and introduce a progressive stocking program. That would be a good first step.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avid Angler
Nipissing First Nation is admitting that they are exceeding safe harvest levels. No one is finger pointing.
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Originally Posted by Avid Angler
As I've stated before - I use to hit Nip twice each year - stayed at a campground - also know others who did the same thing - neither of us go there anymore because of what is happening there - I feel sorry for the campground owners who are losing business - you would think that reasonable people could get together and work something out that is a win for everybody - I think that commercial netting should be the first thing that needs to stop - after Nip goes down the tubes what lake is next - I assume that the netters can move to an other lake and ruin it also -
Fisher men, whether commercial or sport, have the ability to kill any fishery and have done so multiple times In the past and will continue to do so in the future. Meat fishing needs to become a thing of the past otherwise nothing will really change
there is no finger pointing when nfn admits they are over-harvesting I have only kept 4 eyes this openwater season so I am not the problem.........................
Maybe catch and release should be.... Catch your one fish (quota) for the day and then head home.... If we can't enjoy a wild fish meal once in a while, whats the point....Quote:
Originally Posted by rfb
Its suppose to be fish/game management for one and for all.... Its shouldn't be whats good for me... There is no "I" in management..
.Everyone (group) needs to do their part.
When does "Over Harvesting" turn into poaching. Is poaching only a thing us tax payers do??? If we poach we lose the right to fish, will they??
Avid Angler needs to learn a few things about conservation. I make yearly trips to the east coast and go fishing. I've caught a bunch of Cod, that fishery must be fantastic by his logic.
I don't keep fish, not because I don't like eating them, but because they are a finite resource under extreme pressure these days. We've wiped out so many fisheries, killed off some species and pushed others to the brink of extinction that for me anyway, the time has come to stop keeping what we catch or at the very least vastly curtailng what we keep.Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
As far as having to eat fish in order to enjoy fishing, we don't eat Musky but we still love to fish for them. People target gar just for the joy of catching them. Why do we have to kill so many just to enjoy our sport?
I don't agree with a commercial harvest either although us telling FN what they can and can't do makes me very uneasy considering how much we've screwed them over in the past
I havent seen any fishery I use get better in the past decade or so, only worse. Unless there are drastic changes it will all come crashing down eventually. I think that's where we are headed but a lot of people will happily ignore all the signs till its too late
Anyway, that's my two cents. I hope I'm wrong.
"Anyway, that's my two cents. I hope I'm wrong."
I think you are. I don't know how much you fish or where but there are a ton of places right here in Ontario that the fishing has greatly improved in the last 20 years. There are also many bodies of water where the populations of game fish are doing quite well and targeting fish for the table is fine, including the muskie that you say nobody eats (people do).
It's real easy, MNR should tell the natives quit fishing commercially and follow the laws of the province.
if not we will remove all laws and regulations for everyone, when the fishery is done prior to restocking negotiate First Nations have no special rights or the stocking will not take place.
Amazing ignorance, did you read the article? Anyway, they are admitting to mismanaging the lake, so much for them knowing whats best, but of course any sensible person would have seen it coming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avid Angler
There was an article in OOD mag a few months back that said they were increasing the slot size in Nippising for sport anglers. You and Me.
The article said the slot size increase will leave only 3 % of the fish in Nippissing available outside the slot for sport fisherman to keep. This slot size change does not effect commercial fishermen of course.
Under these conditions, why would anyone waste time and money going there? Unless you are a local of course.
I have seen some amazing improvements in some areas re angling in this province and in some areas we have fallen behind. Back in the 70's and 80's every musky caught was kept, the impacting results were not good. Now 95% are released which is a good thing. If you keep that one special fish congrats nothing wrong with that, just use common sense. If I fish out on lake Erie and land 5 walleye they are going into the freezer. On the other hand if I'm fishing a Kawartha lake I might only keep one or two and release the rest. If I fished Nipissing I wouldn't keep any. Each fishery is unique and it's important to understand that. As far as the few out there who believe all angling should be catch and release, be careful what you wish for. I have some friends across the ocean who have told me some horror stories because of what that mindset has turned into.
There are lots a great fishery in Ontario, from MNR study, so I don't understand why you are so dramatic?Quote:
Originally Posted by rfb
I don't think it's getting worse, I think it's getting better because we learned from our mistake, we can't logged out up to a creek so the water stay cold, our lake are getting cleaner and you name it..... Most of the time fishing is not really the issue, it's what we don't see that I'm worry the most, pollution and so on.... I just can't imagine going fishing and not keeping any, eating is my favorite thing in life and it's tough to beat a fresh fish meal.
Fisheries are moving targets, not just sliding downhill... They are either rising or falling.Quote:
Originally Posted by rfb
Erie was dead in the 70's, now it's booming for sport and commercial... A lot of factors play into fisheries like spawning year classes, spawning beds, water quality, weed growth, fertilizer getting into the lake, and on and on... Angling pressure is only one factor and most medium to large lakes are hard to hurt with just angling alone, because most fish don't bite!
I wound't worry about keeping some to eat, slots are also getting better to protect spawners... But out lakes are definately not managed as well as out west or the states, but I think overall in good shape and many are improving...
I have watched the walleye fishery in Muskoka/Parry Sound go from non-existant, to viable, over the past decade and a bit. Im 28, in my younger years I NEVER caught walleye. Now I can reliably catch some if I want to. This, IMO, is due in large part to the implementation of slot sizes and a reduction of catch limits. MNR has done considerable good work for the walleye fishery in central ON over the past little while.Quote:
Originally Posted by rfb
Nothing wrong with keeping a few fish to eat. The Lakes I fish have an abundant supply I am far enough into the bush that very few people come here to the lakes I fish. I catch and eat maybe 6 - 16 fish a year and only keep no more than 6 from any of the lakes I fish.
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Originally Posted by rfb
I think you're on the wrong forum to be spewing that kind of talk?Quote:
Originally Posted by rfb
Humans should stop eating all meat fish and animals in fact maybe get rid of the human population. Eh??
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Originally Posted by rfb
Why? We're talking about fishing here and those are my opinions on the subject. Last time I checked you were still free to voice your thoughts in this country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmoose
If you don't like my opinions feel free to ignore them or refute them.
You may find the following article useful if I was able to post the link correctly
http://webapps2.ucalgary.ca/~bgs/pub...e_Collapse.pdf
The article indicates for specific areas, but you seem to indicate all areas should be closed including those that are productive.
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Originally Posted by rfb
That article isnt the be all and end all of papers on the subject but I thought it posed some interesting ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
I'm not for shutting down all fisheries but I think even in healthy ones we should be greatly reducing what we keep. There are just so many anglers targeting the same waters that we need to limit what we do keep.
Something to think about is a lot of fisheries aren't self sustainable and rely heavily on stocking to keep them going
I fish for trout and there is a difference between fishing for a naturally occurring population and stockers dumped into a river or lake.
Anyway that's my take. I think with populations expanding continually it will take a change in the way we think about fishing to keep the sport healthy.
You are absolutely correct in the fact that you are entitled to your opinion. I'm playing the devil's advocate here, but if that is your position that most if not all fishing should be strictly catch and release in order protect a fragile fishery why fish at all? Every time you wet a line in pursuit of a fish there is a chance that fish may not survive. Maybe it was hooked too deep, maybe it was played out and went belly up, any number of things could occur where that fish may not survive. Why risk it then if that is your mindset?
Sometimes things take care of themselves - for instance - if a lake is being fished out people won't be catching many fish and therefore won't go there anymore - as time passes and the lower fishing pressure the number of fish increases again - fish are a renewable resource - they just have to be taken care of - it seems as though most of the discussion centers about fishing for walleye because so many fishermen target them - if we all started enjoying eating other kinds of fish a lot of the problems would eventually go away - each fish has a distinct taste - which should be recognized and enjoyed - bullheads, bluegills, crappies, perch, rockbass etc. are all good eating - some are easier to clean than others and some have less bones to contend with - you can make just about any fish taste good if you know how to cook it - one time a guy gave me a couple pieces of a sheephead fish which was breaded - I didn't believe it that it was a sheephead because it tasted so good - most people don't want to take the time to prepare the food because it takes too much time - it's a lot easier to fillet a walleye and put it into the pan - actually - variety is the spice of life - so they say -
I look at fishing as a sport or outdoor activity.Quote:
Originally Posted by stilchen67
I enjoy the act of catching fish. I like to do it over and over again. For me there is real pleasure in stalking a trout in a stream or river and landing it
I know there is a risk I may accidentally kill a trout but that risk is minimal.
If you look at catch and release studies, when it's done properly, the same fish may be caught over and over again.
I think that if a fishery can support catch and keep, I'm Ok with that. I really think most can't without harming the fishery, at least not in the numbers we allow today. A lot of fisheries can only support the fishing they do because of massive restocking efforts.
For what I fish for, there is a real difference between fishing for a wild trout and a pale, tank raised domestic fish.
Does anyone see fishing pressure decreasing in the future? Does anyone see urbanization decreasing? Those two things go hand in hand in affecting fishing quality.
I just think it's unrealistic to think our fisheries can maintain any quality if we keep removing tons of fish from them every year.
I think that you're viewing things through a clouded lens. The trout fishing is far above what it was in the 70's or 80's same with the walleye, musky as well. The majority of anglers out there use common sense and respect the resource, I really do believe that. Sure there are your exceptions, but I don't think it is as rampant as you think. Twenty five years ago Erie turned on with the walleye fishery, now the trout are better than ever as well as the perch. How many people go out and bring home a limit of bass every time out? Very few. The biggest concerns would be overharvest by commercial means ( Colpoys Bay near Wiarton would be a good example or Nipissing) Pollution is another concern as well as fluctuating water levels which can affect spawning grounds. Baitfish numbers rise and fall which also affect game fish size and numbers, just like deer or rabbit numbers there is a cycle.Quote:
Originally Posted by rfb
100% disagree with that statement
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Originally Posted by rfb
You say leave the natives alone as we have plenty of options to catch fish. Guess you don't know that nets are now being found in Lake Nosbonsing and Talon Lake. There is no lake here that can handle commercial fishing. Once they kill of Lake Nipissing they will move over to the next lake and the next lake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avid Angler
Then, quite frankly, you need to to stop complaining about people who keep fish. A % of fish released die anyways. YOU ARE KILLING FISH JUST BY CATCHING THEM. Do you ice fish? The rate at which fish die after release increase in the winter.
When you play around with nature, some of nature will die, regardless of how much you try to minimize impact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfb
I'm 62 and have been fishing all my life. Believe me - fishing in Ontario is so much better than it used to be 30 years ago.
The Muskoka's - you couldn't catch a fish there 30 years ago.
Lake Erie was bass only - now a fantastic walleye population.
Rice Lake - very hard to catch fish there 30 yrs ago.
Grand River - I never caught a walleye there - ever - until last 10 yrs they are common.
IMO - the Ministry has done an incredible job. Fishing and hunting is a monsterous industry. Tourism $'s are free money coming into Ontario. The Ministry understands $'s invested comes back ten fold.
Well put, here is an example of someone who has time on the water, a lifetime to be clear. An angler who has seen many of the peaks and valleys in the fishery. If they say overall it is better then thirty or forty years ago they're probably right in that assertion.
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Originally Posted by Roper
Have you seen any of the studies on survival rate of catch and release fish? They're pretty dam high. And no I don't ice fish.Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
I'm only 53. I guess not old enough to have seen the peaks and valleys. And if all fisheries are about is peaks and valleys why are we getting excited about overfishing on Nippissing. It will come back right? Maybe not in our lifetime but it will come back, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by stilchen67
Well here go,s
I am a NFN member and i do like to get out and fish with me son. It is my right to keep what i want BUT I don,t maybe keep one or 2 for dinner.
I see people ice fishing and pulling walleye up on to the ice leaving them there until all there buddies see it and take a picture of it . So do you think that fish is going to live? And where are people that go out and get there limit and run back to the camp drop them off and come back out. No ever fishing there.
One thing that is being put to the band council on Juy 30th is to close the lake right off .
And the members are all going to put to council that every one wants there share of the limit for NFN so in that why we close the netters down.
Some thing else is maybe we should stop live bait so the hooks are not going down so far and killing fish that are to be put back.
We at NFN know there is a problem and 99.5 % want it stopped. There is only 7 or 8 nets here on the reserve and i,m sure they will be gone.
So next time you get a walleye and you have been drinking pop all day think about taking care of that fish so it will be there for you next year when it,s 18 inches. If we don,t look after the lake we all loss and think of all the camps that will have to close down.
Start fishing for bass and pike or sheep heads there a lot of fun and give the walleye time to come back.
With regards to over fishing on Nipissing people are getting excited to steal your quote "" because it is OVERFISHED which you apparently acknowledge. As along as it is overfished it will not come back. You don't seem to comprehend with nature there are peaks and valleys it will balance out over time. Nipissing will not because a certain group of people are abusing the fishery, with that much overharvest walleye cannot reach maximum spawning size potential or peak numerically. As you stated previously because we screwed them over in the past it's ok from them to abuse a resource. Granted there were injustices in the past, but by todays standards most first nations people have equal if not greater opportunities then the rest of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by rfb
Well said stilchen from a NFN member well said.
I couldn't disagree with you more.Quote:
Originally Posted by stilchen67
Oh I think I understand nature all right. I think you missed my point. Regardless if you're going to quote me quote the whole thing. I said I didn't agree with netting but that I was uncomfortable dictating to FN after all we've done to screw them over in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by stilchen67
As far as them having all the opportunities we do, suffice it to say that might be overstating it a tad.
One last t question. If the fishery is so badly damaged that netting needs to stop, would sport fisherman agree to a moratorium on fishing to allow the lake to recover in conjunction with the end of the commercial fishery.
This is not some local farm pond that we're talking about. Nipissing is a vast lake. What makes the biggest impact, banning commercial netting that doesn't discriminate against species or size, or handcuffing all of the resorts on a lake where there is already a stringent slot size and only a couple of fish are allowed to be harvested. These resorts will close down and businesses will be lost, it doesn't pay to drive 4 or 5 hours to Nipissing to keep a couple of 13inch fish as it is when I can fish Erie and have a great experience. Do you think it is fair to put these folks out of business? I don't think most serious walleye anglers would bother to travel to Nipissing anymore. With that said if the First Nations and provincial government and local government worked together. Started a stocking program, limit netting, set an 8 year plan. it would pay off for everyone involved. If Lake Erie can rebound from the dead just imagine what could happen to Nipissing, with the proper mindset and input from credible biologists the possibilities are endless.Quote:
Originally Posted by rfb
Good reply Stitchen67, I think you hit the nail on the head.
So some people still think that the ecosystem of the lake should bare the burdens of past wrongs that were committed. Interesting, but i'm not sure that's an effective way to manage the fishery, and it seems that if you don't believe they have the same opportunity as the rest of us, which is up to debate, we should be ok to allow the lake be picked clean in apology. This makes sense to you? Not to most of us, maybe the rest of us just don't get it, maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by rfb
We all know of a similar case in our history. Sound familiar?
"In 1992 the Canadian government declared a moratorium on the Northern Cod fishery, which for the past 500 years had largely shaped the lives and communities of Canada's eastern coast"
"For many families, it also represented their livelihood: most families were connected either directly or indirectly with the fishery as fishers, fish plant workers, fish sellers, fish transporters, or as employees in related businesses"
Too bad other peoples don't adopt established quotas that have proven to be effective.
"Inspired by the Grand Banks cod fishery collapse, the Marine Stewardship Council was founded in 1997 to set global standards for sustainable fishing."
Just a thought, but I believe it would be far more beneficial to get rid of the nets. Have the FN set up cottages/lodges and run them instead. It would keep a whole bunch of them employed and happy, tourists would still come and have a good time. They could still catch what they need for their family consumption on the side. Any takers...
As much in agreement as I am with the majority, and as much as I have a deep dislike for commercial netting as I posted earlier. If the FN, provincial and local governments can work together, restock, and in five or ten years fisheries biologists say yes this water sustain MINIMAL netting without burdening overall size or numbers I can live with that. Netting that is only for tribal consumption, without reduction to slot numbers or size to the angling public. I also believe that it would benefit the FN more with limited netting, because there would be greater opportunities for guiding and as mentioned more cottages and lodges. More and more people from urban centers are searching out the opportunity to have that guided trip with a shoreline lunch just to sat that they've experienced it once. Nipissing isn't that far a drive compared to other northern places it has breathtaking scenery. If they developed the fishery, it could be something spectacular.
Why do they even allow netting? Why not just long lining.
First off the MNR will not let the stocking program increase it,s numbers they have asked and where told point blank NO.
Well from what i know where was longing lining years ago . They did it for the Sturgeon on but guess who did the long lining the white man . And where are the sturgeons now?
Just give it time.
I,m sure the nets will go there is a vote coming up at the end of the month and most NFN members want them gone.
Greet White look it up and see who fished all the Blue walleye out of Nipissing that where here many years ago .
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Originally Posted by piker6ca
Well i guess the fish will be happy to know that it isnt the white man this time. We have these things called laws and catch limits, something we didn't have when we caught all of x or y, but we learned, nothing that happened in the past matters, or is an excuse for what is happening now. I and many others predicted exactly this when the government sanctioned a commercial fishery, but of course the usual crowd claimed that native people knew better, would be better. What did we find out? Something that most of us already knew, we are the same.
Good points from both Piker and Grog, truth be told there is plenty of blame to go around. Much more can be accomplished working together in a situation such as this rather than finger pointing. But since we are on that subject it's amazing that the provincial Liberals can fritter away over one billion dollars and hold no one responsible. But can't invest a paltry ten million to save one of the most famous lakes and its fishery in North America. I just hope that the day comes when Dalton and Kathleen get theirs................ OK now I feel better.
Very good point. I find this is the problem with the finger pointing, it gives no alternatives. At the end of the day the netters are trying to feed their families and to just tell them to stop won't happen because then they are left with nothing. Ask yourself would you quit your job because someone told you its hurting the environment with no alternative, or would you continue to feed your family. The answer is pretty clear. But with the right alternative I think the netting could be stopped. It's time to work together instead of angry finger pointing that gets nowhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman
The comment below is not intended for any specific group/individual but just a general statement about taking responsibility for oneself...(something we seem to lack now days)Quote:
Originally Posted by IceFanADDICT
This is all great but shouldn't someone or some group take it upon themselves to find an alternative way to make a living if the field they are in is lost?
I don't think the government should be the ones looking for the answers into someone or some groups future. Take the bull by the horns... Make your own statement in life, you don't need the government telling what business you should get into....
Individuals that cannot support themselves (physically/mentally/etc..) should be getting support/handouts, all others should/can work hard to make their own way.
I know how many eye rolls I'm gonna get for this comment but here it goes. What you suggest is not very practical for any minority group, sure it can be done and has been many times but it is much easier to just go out and find a new job of you are a white male. Our whole system was created by the white male. These other groups have a significantly harder time to find a decent paying job. The natives for example have to stay on reserve to continue to identify themselves as natives of Canada. If you move off the reserve you are no longer native to the country and lose almost all of your rights. Now how many good paying jobs do you think are on reserve for these people? Enough to go around? Netting is one of their good paying jobs that is about to be taken away with no alternative. I in no way support giving jobs to every minority just because they are minority, but I think in the case of these people some slack needs to be given.Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
Yup well said Fratri. Also icefanaddict are you sure you know the netters are "trying to feed thier families"? How do you know this from down there in Innisfil? Also do you mean they are making money to buy groceries or are you saying they are using the netted fish to feed thier families?
Bottom line is that comment is somewhat irrelevant since the very few approved commercial fisherman do not support their families from purely commercial fishing. They would starve if that was the case. This is a seasonal industry with limited income potential. We are talking about an additional supplemental income for a very limited few so lets not make this more than what it is. If the nets were all taken away tomorrow a very few guys would have to find a way to make up for some lost cash. Families would not starve.
we typed responses at the same time icefanaddict so I read your last one and now know for sure you are confused.
wrongQuote:
The natives for example have to stay on reserve to continue to identify themselves as natives of Canada.
Not so.Quote:
If you move off the reserve you are no longer native to the country and lose almost all of your rights.
really? tell me more.Quote:
Netting is one of their good paying jobs that is about to be taken away with no alternative
You are talking about something you don't have full knowledge of.
Going to comment on this portion of the statement. I have a business acquaintance who's grandfather was Metis and he has told me that Natives have an easier time getting into post secondary education than non-natives. He said colleges, universities and trade schools were were bending over backwards trying to get his boys enrolled. Minimum grades for acceptance into certain programs were lower, scholarships and grants for post secondary are available to natives that are not there for non so I don't accept this argument at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by IceFanADDICT
There are many many complex reasons that natives do not fair as well as other groups in Canadian society. Numerous studies have been done on the subject and it's not a black and white issue that can be distilled into the cheap psycho babble that gets espoused on forums.
If it's just so easy to go out and get a job why are we so worried about the resort operators whose livelihood is in jeopardy if the fishery dies?
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sourc...gBdLnhB2NmGIegQuote:
Originally Posted by M_P
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/31/gupadyda.jpg
An interesting article for you to read.
I know someone out there is going to give me heat but what the hell! You can post up graphs and charts saying one group is not getting a fair break compared to another, frankly I'm sick of hearing it. Sadly there are too many groups using that crutch to blame someone else for their shortcomings in life. How often do you see someone from the CBC doing a segment on the news about the aboriginal housing conditions. Guess what, that house with no windows or a hanging front door, I didn't beak them or the door. Take the initiative, fix it yourself. I work with two friends both make very good money $85 to 90,000 a year, because their kids are one quarter native they get free university. My children don't have that benefit, those netters on Nipissing were taking more than what was needed for their band and that is a fact. Secondly the reason so many people on the reserves live in such a poor state is because reserves self govern and too many people on the band council/ higher ups, take more money than they should and don't divvy it up as it is meant to be. Thirdly the biggest native problem is the collapse of the family unit, it all stems from that. My ex work as a CO near one of the reserves and told some of the problems with regards to drug and sexual abuse. It was a horror story what she saw happening. I believe in helping people overcome these challenges. I believe we made some mistakes in the past. But I am sick and tired of hearing some individuals and groups sit back and blame the white heterosexual Christian male for their lot in life. My father came here did not speak the language or read or write. But he worked like a dog and people said things about his ethnicity. He told me he just put his head down and worked hard and never did he blame anyone else for his success or failure in life.
FN don't get a "free" education. The government gives some money to bands for post secondary education. The band's still have to pay tuition for the students. The universities charge them the same as your kids or mine.
My kids got money to go to school from the government in the form of bursaries. Is that wrong of them to accept it?
My buddies kid got a full ride scholarship to play ball. He makes over 6 figures. Should his kid not take the scholarship?
I don't know if it's bigotry or ignorance on here but it sounds like a bunch of good old boys from the deep south talking about them uppity black folk.
There's a whole country below us that have the same get off your butt and help yourself mentality, seems to working great for them.
Yeah, sureQuote:
Originally Posted by IceFanADDICT
Except FN in the states have the same problems with poverty etc that they do up here
I was being a bit sarcastic.Quote:
Originally Posted by rfb
I apologize. I misunderstoodQuote:
Originally Posted by IceFanADDICT
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceFanADDICT
Yes, and this has what to do with gill netting a relatively small inland lake until it's ecology is destroyed? Not a damn thing, and btw, this isn't some poor band living in an isolated area with no access to opportunity, does your chart take that into account? Not to mention that not even the people on the reserve are terribly happy with the commercial netting, in part because it benefits a privileged few, while the rest are left with a lake that they have trouble catching fish in for themselves. This simplistic leftist view of the poor native people, is simply ridiculous, and it wont play. You also forgot to mention that the paper you linked is hosted on the center for policy alternatives website, a left wing think tank. Keep looking for excuses where there aren't any.
One of my friends in school had diluted native blood. She was doing her second post-secondary course. Fully paid for as well as complete living expenses, because she was "native". She was also gloating that she might do a third post-secondary education, also would be paid for.
They have way more opportunities than any other race in Canada. But it's up to the individual to learn about it and take the initiative.
As far as the netting goes, it's not a necessity for sustenance living. Otherwise, why would they be throwing away all the edible non-walleye fish.
Icefanaddict has successfully poisoned this thread with useless diatribe about aboriginal issues. He has no clue about the NFN. An extremely successful and thriving community filled with prosperous, successful, contributing members of this community both on and off the NFN reserve. And valid or not, his aboriginal issues he raises offers no value to the debate of this commercial fishery. His and others continued attempt to bring the discussion back to aboriginal issues and struggles and throw that in the face of others is just as insulting to a NFN member I'm sure. They don't need or want your sympathy. They do quite well. They don't like the nets either. Their community is not immune from challenges or issues with government just like your community in innisfil. Stick to the subject and stop spewing things about a community you have no clue about.
Ok, if we just keep it at the fishery level, is it commercial fishing that you object to or the method used? Someone mentioned long lining. Is that a viable alternative? Or is it simply that most believe that it should be a sport fishery only.
Yes actually it does on about the second page in.Quote:
Originally Posted by grog
The bottom line when it comes to the commercial netting for the sake of this argument is that the lake obviously cannot support it, the netters will not stop without some viable alternative. That was my whole origional point and it turned into left vs right (as it always seems to do on this site).
stilchen67 X2
Hmmm, "relatively small inland lake". It's in the top 5 biggest lakes in the province by surface area... I have no interest in getting into these Nip discussions, but that statement was glaring... I think you mean relatively large(close to the biggest) inland lake...Quote:
Originally Posted by grog
Well i,m a FN member if it is that easy to go to school I should go back .
Should be no problem it,s all free and if I work it out right I can go until I retire.
I,m 59 now so only 6 years to go.
Who ever is saying we go to school for free sorry we do not.
Every one on NFN wants the netting to stop but 8 people . We had a meeting last night about it so we will see what happens.
If it does not go the way of stopping the netting then most FN members have said they will all ask for there qouta from the band council and this will leave nothing for the net fishing.
O ITD, i have you on ignore, so i normally don have to read your comments, but i was unlucky enough to have seen that one before i logged in, anyway, yes, Nipissing is a small lake, when you can motor from one end to the other to check your gill nets everyday, it's a small lake. It isnt a great lake, it isn't the ocean, of course your reply has nothing to do with the actual problem, but thanks for coming out.
No problem brother, always a pleasure...:) I on the other don't ignore your comments, because I find them amusing, and don't take them too seriously:) I listen to all viewpoints, and try not to live in ignorance...Quote:
Originally Posted by grog
After Nipigon and Simcoe, Nip is ON's 3rd largest inland lake, so no Nipissing is not a "relatively small inland lake", it's a Great Lake by inland standards... 7th largest lake in ON including the Great Lakes!
You're trying to portray it as a small lake that can't take a ton of pressure, the truth is it can because of how big it is... The question is only how much????
Anyways as for the FN, no easy answers there...
The whole point of this thread is that the biologists in charge of the lake have bluntly stated the lake cannot support the pressure it is currently being placed under. They know what it is, and its not a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by intothedeep
great lakes or not netting takes its toll on fish populations, since they can pretty much net on shore if they want to now. in my area you can tell when the "fishing boats" go out set nets. theres a noticeable lack of fish movement. the government needs to step in and actually enforce something on these people they get away with enough crap.
When talking about walleye or any species it doesn't matter what size the lake is. What matters is that portion of the lake that is habitat for any particular species.