Guys have any of yas used heavi metal of hevi steel loads before if so can I get some pros and cons on them I'm normally just a federal BBB user normally but thinking of switching it up a bit!
Printable View
Guys have any of yas used heavi metal of hevi steel loads before if so can I get some pros and cons on them I'm normally just a federal BBB user normally but thinking of switching it up a bit!
I dont put to much stock in those "fancy" shells. If your birds are decoying then it dosent matter what brand you use. So I'd recommend using whats cheapest, most readily available or what ever patterns best in your gun. I personnally use challenger 3" bb, but thats because i get them @$13.50 a box with my discount.
Im going to try a box of blind side and perhaps after witnessing the devastating effect of BC out of pops' 20ga give them a try as well. My go to is federal #2 and BB. $14 a box sounds good to me.
Federal #2, #1, BB. 3" and 2 3/4". Don't see the need for the 3's on the first shot if they are close. I also have #4 in 2 3/4" for running down Cripples.
Federal blue box, Kents, and challengers for me
Normally I shoot Challengers, but got a good deal on Kent this season. Going to be shooting 3" #1s.
I've shot Blackcloud, Hevi metal and steel, and all those other gimmicky loads and can tell you that when the bird's centred in the pattern, it dies the same no matter what she'll you're shooting.
-Nick
Thanks fellas keepem coming!
Hevi Steel is just regular steel shot. No different than any other steel, just the price tag. If it patterns best for you and you don't mind the extra coin, go for it.
I use Kents. #BB, #1, and #3 in various loads for various situations.
I use Federal Blue Box and Kent Fasteel. Cheap and they work if I do my job.
Goose I use #1's and for Ducks I use #3's or #4's.
No need to buy fancy expensive steel loads like you mentioned, All you need is some good quality shells like Kent, challenger, Winchester etc. Buy a box of each and see which one patterns the best, and enjoy you duck dinner.
Challenger... Tried the more expensive stuff...its no better.
Won't touch BC with a 10 foot pole, horrible load for me last year, got better results with the wal mart Winchester super - x!
Dad and his buddy were shooting Blind Side at honkers last year with great results, but Kent for me.
Kent would be my load of choice although as a good deal would have it, I will be using federal 3.5" x 1.5oz BB this season (the price was right). I agree BC is a waste of time and just creates "feather clouds" in close.
Have tried BC, Hevi-shot, win super-x, Federal "blue-box"??, Winchester supreme, tungsten, bismuth and kent. I've been using Kent for the last few years with good results @ a good price! Of course it depends on the gun, etc etc, that's why patterning is important and so is your budget!!
under your post says your a feild staff for zink?Quote:
Originally Posted by Killswitch
Heavy metal sponsers zink. Wonder how freddie would like hearing a guy was saying not to use a company that sponsours there show
Nothing I hate more than internet police.
Yes - but he does have a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by woody1948
Nothing but Kents for me for the last 10 or so years. No need for anything else. I shoot the slower 1 1/4 oz loads. I prefer more shot to the extra 2000ish FPS of speed.
S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinker
I agree - I have tried the KENTS after spending too much $$$ on the more expensive shells and have been very pleased - slower shot 1 3/8 load have been folding them beautifully.
If you're going to mix it up I'd shoot hevi metal as opposed to hevi steel.
Last few years been shooting blue box federal and challenger, I prefer the challenger.
Having said that, the guys I hunt with shoot mostly Winchester super x and have a lot of success with it.
The cheapest 3.5" #2s I can buy typically, coupled with a wad wizard supreme choke tube.
That just means that you should respect what he said about that load even more, and he's right, Heavy Metal is junk, heavy shot, tungsten and bismuth all have their place its proven by guides who have to act as cripple cleanup crew, they can produce an extended killing range - no doubt, but those Heavy Metal loads just pattern terribly, it takes two things to effectively and repeatedly kill birds, projectile energy and pattern density, you can increase one of the two but if you sacrifice the other, more cripples will result.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt86
So for most of us meager shots, find reasonable quality steel shot that patterns well out of your gun and limit your shots to 40 yards and you should do very well, if you want more, step up to the 10 gauge and find reasonable quality BBB and T shot that patterns well and you can add 10 - 15 yards to that for big geese or snows...
Frosty.
The most important part of any shell is the guy pulling the trigger. If you cant center up your birds in the pattern, you'll have cripples with any load.
I'll take pattern density over velocity any day, personally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty
Agreed Sinker, but much below 1300 fps at the muzzle it's a proven fact that steel #2's pretty much bounce off big birds at 40 yards, at least they are far far less effective than at 1500 fps, I don't see the need to take one over the other, speed vs pattern, just pattern the shazzizle out of your gun till you find a fast choke/load combo that patterns well out of your gun, in my guns these loads aren't usually the flashy, gimmicky expensive loads! After a weekend of patterning I'm back to the SBE/WW/Kent 3" 1-1/4oz #1's in the 12 and Gold Light/Briley .740/Win Drylok BB's and T's in the 10.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinker
For me in the 10, it was almost a situation of choose the ammo then switch the chokes in order to find one that will shoot the ammo you want to use, usually it's the other way around.
But I agree gotta centre the bird to kill the bird, some days that tall git makes me look silly !!!! :)
I switched from Winchester and Remington stock loads to Kent only b/c I had some duds with those other brands. Seems the Kents hold up better in the moist duck hunting environment. I shoot 2s when targeting both ducks and geese, BB for geese only hunts.
I wonder if there's any test data on actual velocity on target for these speed loads. Everyone gets worked up about 200fps, but that's muzzle velocity. What's the speed (and hence momentum) difference on target?Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty
My thought has always been, practise kills birds. Find a load, speed and weight, that you fell comfortable with and stay with it ... constantly changing shells leads to missed or crippled birds, and frusteration with misses ... you will form a natural memory for your lead and pull if you stay with the same shells. It seems to me that not all shells that state the same speeds for the load shoot the same, maybe the wadding is making the difference ... but I find the Winchester my least favorite, I find the Kents and Challenger shoot similar for the same load shells, and 90% of the shells I shoot are Kents, 1 1/8oz when primarily shooting divers and 1 1/4oz when primarily shooting mallards ... but that is just my preference, I like the faster shell for the faster duck and denser pattern for the slow, heafty, fat birds.
Got a flat of kent magnum #2's and BB's to try this year. For the price and the reviews should be a solid choice
Thanks boys didn't mean to cause any contraversy with this subject. I have always used federal 3-3.5 BB out of my gun and they have always worked for me just have seen a lot of hevi metal on videos and pictures Latley thought I would ask! Thanks a lot for input fellas! My spelling an grammar isn't vet good hope yas don't mind lol!
#3 kent's.works on ducks and geese over dekes.i only shoot the expensive loads that i get for christmas. lol
Yes there is oodles of evidence proven, search for example over at the duckhuntingchat shot shells and reloading forum/pages, because deceleration is a parabolic curve a difference of 200fps at the muzzles equates to a MUCH bigger velocity difference at 40 yards. If you want to shoot slow shot then shoot BIG shot BBB's or T's hold their momentum/energy much further afield.......at the end of the day you still can't argue with Mr. Newton even 300 years later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead Ringer
i also agree with familiarity with your gun/load, but for Christ's sake put the odds in your favour before you get familiar, been there done that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maarsey
No no controversy, it's a forum, everyone has an opinion, it's all good :)
This is a hunting and fishing forum, not an English class room, no need to apologize for that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Maarsey
If we have to start watching our spelling and grammar, before you know it, we'll have to stop telling lies to! :)
Thanks for the enlightenment. Good to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty
Like Gadwall, I like the lighter loads for greater velocity on speedy birds.
Haha! Ask any opinion on here and there's bound to be a discussion! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Maarsey
200fps is quite the difference with any shotgun load. Think target loads. A 1200fps handicap trap load had quite a bit more punch down range than a 1000fps load.
The loads Sinker (and I) shoot are 1425fps. Only 75fps off the usual 1550. Kent makes a 1 1/4oz. load in 3.5" that's around 1650fps.
i resemble that remark lolQuote:
Originally Posted by TurkeyRookie
I try to keep my shots a lot closer than 40yds. I think a lot of guys can't guess range very well too. Some guys think 40yds is 25, and others think 40 is 80. I like to keep them close. Most of my shots past 40yds are at a cripple, or a bird that I know has been hit, and need to come down. I don't lift the gun until they are at least 25yds.....or less.
Sure, I take the odd poke out to, and past 40, but its gotta be a real slow day, or a trophy bird. The thrill for me is getting them close and working the birds.
I also agree with Gadwall. I've been shooting the same shells for a loooong time. I tried some remington sportsmans the year before last, and found they were like shooting air...meanwhile my buddy beside me is smacking them down with them......so it just goes to show ya......get used to a shell and keep atter. It does make a difference.
S
A good shell is one that is consistent!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadwall
Don’t believe the manufacturers’ velocity claims. Some are close to what they say, others are way off.
As stated earlier, not the muzzle velocity, but the velocity at the target matters. However, that’s only a result of the muzzle velocity and shot size (and of density of course).
Having said that, I don’t think these ultra-fast loads make any sense. It’s just a sales pitch to sell you less (i.e. metal, the little bit of extra powder is way cheaper) for significantly more money!
Just step up a shot size. Some guy said he shoots #4 and bigger shot to follow up on cripples – why on earth are you doing this if you already know you end up with cripples? Problem is that big shots may carry sufficient energy, but at 40yrds there are just not enough shots left. So, you have to step up with the load. If you do that, need to consider going either 3.5” steel or the expensive 2 ¾ or 3”. By the way, get some that have defined shot size (not the hevi metal garbage, which may look only good on paper, but will have a questionable shot string in the air).
Long story short, I’ decided last year to use up all my expensive stuff (besides the wingmaster hd it was a complete waste of money) and stick to mid-priced steel (medium speed, larger shots, heavier loads). I hope sooner than later I get my spreads refined enough that I can revise my statement to “at 20yrds it doesn’t matter…”
Make sure you stick to one load. By the way, the lead with target (lead) loads (summer practice) can be very different than #2 or BB at a distance.
Huge difference in steel vs lead when it comes to leading a bird for sure! I now suck at shooting lead shot....I prefer steel!! Crazy, I know, but I can shoot steel better!
S.
There are 85 T's in a 1-5/8oz 10 gauge load or 117 BB'sQuote:
Originally Posted by Waftrudnir
Compared to 59 T's and 81 BB's in an 1-1/8oz 12 gauge load
So I'll get 6 more T's than most people have BB's, big difference, + the 10 patterns the big shot soo much better, + the 10 kicks a hell of a lot less than a 3-1/2" 12, which for me, is a horrible load to shoot in the field.
YES I am a recent 10 gauge convert.....
Get them close and shoot em in the face. I know I kinda "preach" that all the time on here, but its true. If they won't come close enough, let them go, and get them next time. I like working birds, not shooting at them when they're too far.....and I use the term "too far" loosely.....anyone who can shoot half decent will have a "happy" distance they can shoot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty
I've probably killed more geese with 3"#3's than I have with proper goose loads.....just get "em close and they die in the air.
S.
I have used a mix of loads for geese. Generally I like the Black Clouds. When patterning my Rem870 using BB shot, I found that the varying pattern (they use two types of shot, one set are round and the others look like little flying saucers) the round shot had a wider pattern at around 30-40 yds and lodged in the first few layers of plywood. The "flying saucers" grouped tighter and still had enough energy to punch through the plywood. I think this one-two punch allows these shells to work better in varied situations where you may have close shooting and some stuff farther away. I hunt over a fairly wide water body and so the geese don't always fly in my face. I don't want to sky-bust, but I also don't want to injure a bird with a cheap load. This is what works for my with my particular style in my particular hunting situation.
What I have learned on OOD is... use whatever works for you. 100 members will have 100 answers - and every one of them will insist that they are "right".
The difference in shells in minimal, the difference in peoples shooting ability is maximal:)
Here is one smart fella :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinker
Yes, yes, yes again and you know that I already agree with that philosophy, I'm no sky buster, but every now and again someone will wing one, it's inevitable, and it's nice to think that there is the potential at least anyway, to put that cripple down before it cruises over the fence line or dives under the water never to be seen again.....
I wish they shotguns shells that shot out nets..
Who am I kidding... I'd still miss
Kent fast steel 3in BB and let them get in close
The best load is one shot at a near bird ;-)
i find it pretty hard not to "take a poke" early in the season when you are all wound up waiting.
Winchester super x 12g 3" #4,2, BB. Works good in my 870. Right price too. Probably grab some kent this year to try since everyone here likes them.
Tried blind side and remington hypersonic but both have some heavy kickback on a pump.
Got a box of heavy metal to try this year!
Pick a brand, and stick with it. Believe me when I say a yard sale of different types of ammo in your blind bag will never help you to consistently kill birds.Quote:
Originally Posted by blunttip
-Nick
For my main honey hole it's black cloud close range. When ducks and geese come in they come. In fast and its ALL close action.
Picked up a flat of Remington 3"#2s Sportsman highspeed steel. My first ever duck season i could buy all my own gear so i was on a budget got them for about $140 at sail
I may just be miss reading / understanding the way you wrote it, but is this your first time shooting those shells? (I.e bought a flat of them before firing a box to see how they perform in your gun / choke combination?)Quote:
Originally Posted by duckmassacre
I find the best is to do some real research and load your own there red neck lol
Winchester xpert hi speed in #4,3, or 2 depending if I'm targeting just ducks or just geese or what part of the season. Muzzle velocity on them is advertised as 1550 fps.
i tried Remington and federals with lower speeds, ~1300-1400 and found they don't kill as well...
Kent Faststeel in # 3 (or 4) or BB, depending on what I'm shooting. Out of my Winchester SXP with a Kick's Highflyer choke. When I first started hunting birds I used expensive shells and missed a whole bunch, now I use cheaper shells and down a LOT more birds. It's about practice, experience, and getting familiar with your gear.