Legality question ?

I want to take my neighbour out duck hunting in the boat this fall, he's never been before. I'm wondering if he can legally shoot at a duck. I know that he can fire a gun as long as I'm basically within arms reach,( 2 guys, 1 gun ) but I'm not sure on the shooting at a duck part. I'm wondering ; if he gets a waterfowl stamp/permit, and there's only 1 gun if this is legal. I'd assume that anything he shoots would be added to my daily limit count. Or can he only observe ?
I've tried looking on the Internet and on here, but can't find anything.
I'm sure some people will say " Shoot & shut up " , but I want to know the legal end of it.

Thanks!
Paul

if he does not have a firearms license or a hunting version outdoors card i would say it would be illegal...

No small game license AND migratory bird stamp then not legal ... he cannot "hunt".

To be sure, you have better avenues than here to ask ... OPP, MNR, and Canadian Wildlife service ... all of these have 800 numbers and can be found by google ... best not to trust me or anyone else on here, best to ask the authorities.

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Originally Posted by pjriley

I want to take my neighbour out duck hunting in the boat this fall, he's never been before. I'm wondering if he can legally shoot at a duck. I know that he can fire a gun as long as I'm basically within arms reach,( 2 guys, 1 gun ) but I'm not sure on the shooting at a duck part. I'm wondering ; if he gets a waterfowl stamp/permit, and there's only 1 gun if this is legal. I'd assume that anything he shoots would be added to my daily limit count. Or can he only observe ?
I've tried looking on the Internet and on here, but can't find anything.
I'm sure some people will say " Shoot & shut up " , but I want to know the legal end of it.

Thanks!
Paul

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If he is NOT a licensed hunter,he may accompany you,but,he must not participate in the hunt in any way....only as a casual observer. He may not use your firearm,call ducks or retrieve downed birds.

GENERAL PROHIBITIONS

• 5. (1) No person shall hunt a migratory bird except under authority of a permit therefor.
  
• (2) Subject to subsection (8), no person shall hunt murres unless the person is a resident of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, holds a migratory game bird hunting permit and is hunting murres for human consumption.
  
• (3) No person shall hunt a migratory game bird unless he is the holder of a migratory game bird hunting permit.
  
• 
  
  

he can come with you and make great us of a camera .nice way to get out doors and be a part of the outing but no he maynot shot at a duck Dutch

If he could :

a) shoot your gun

and

b) kill a duck

why would anyone have a hunting license or a pal?

This probably should have been question #1 on your exam.

umm..I really doubt anyone's just saying "shoot and shut up" on that one.


All the waterfowlers here have spent a lot of money and time to be ethical and legal, why lower a newbie to the level of a poacher on his first outing when he will be hooked for life off a good hunt where he is legal ?? Kind of demeans the sport( and the game)

He should have taken the courses in the summer, I have a few friends I have told the same to over the summer, not losing all my gear due to a friend who is curious about a nice warmer weather outing.

Get him into it though!!! Legally :) He will love it.

I do have the 100% correct answer for this as I ran into the exact same situation and DID call the MNR and OPP to ensure we would be within the law.

You are absolutely correct your friend CAN fire a gun in a controlled environment with you directly within arms reach of him/her.

However as gadwall said without a hunting license AND waterfowl stamp he can't "hunt" which the ministry describes something to the effect of " the discharging of a firearm (including any gun, bow, xbow, high powered air rifle, and slingshot for that matter) with the intent of bringing an animals life to and end."

Now that being said again if he DOES have his hunting license and duck stamp, but is only missing his PAL you CAN take him out on the boat and he CAN shoot your gun and you CAN take two limits as the limit is tied to the license and not the PAL.

Summarized:

No license no Stamp no PAL: Illegal can't hunt

No License Stamp no PAL: Illegal can't hunt.

License no Stamp Pal: Illegal cant hunt ducks

License Stamp no PAL: Legal, take two limits with 1 gun

License Stamp PAL: Fully Legal two limits two guns

Again this was straight from the OPP and MNR last year and I dug in hard as my brother in law had his license but not his PAL yet (didnt get it in time) that that's the info I got, that being said always worth a quick call to get it straight from the horses mouth.

Hope this helps.
-Steve

OOO Big point I forgot to add.

Not only can he not legally shoot and kill a duck but without a license he can't LEGALLY help in the hunt in ANY WAY!

This is important because he can come with you and watch / videotape like Dutch suggested, but he absolutely can't call any duck, set decoys, retrieve ducks for you, or assist with any part of you directly killing a duck as the MNR describes hunting as the whole act not just pulling the trigger.

-Steve

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Originally Posted by Gadwall

No small game license AND migratory bird stamp then not legal ... he cannot "hunt".

To be sure, you have better avenues than here to ask ... OPP, MNR, and Canadian Wildlife service ... all of these have 800 numbers and can be found by google ... best not to trust me or anyone else on here, best to ask the authorities.

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Gadwall that is the best internet advice I have read in a long time

Actually the answer to the question is in the regs. In Ontario you need a small game license and the migratory stamp.

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Originally Posted by mooner

Gadwall that is the best internet advice I have read in a long time

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Actually the answer to the question is in the regs. In Ontario you need a small game license and the migratory stamp.

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Evidently some guys would rather ask, than read.

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Originally Posted by Stevedigs04

OOO Big point I forgot to add.

Not only can he not legally shoot and kill a duck but without a license he can't LEGALLY help in the hunt in ANY WAY!

This is important because he can come with you and watch / videotape like Dutch suggested, but he absolutely can't call any duck, set decoys, retrieve ducks for you, or assist with any part of you directly killing a duck as the MNR describes hunting as the whole act not just pulling the trigger.

-Steve

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That's true and does apply to all kind of hunting; e.g. deer or small game drives.
I personally think that this part of the regs is going too far. I would rather think something like the shooting scenario (in hands reach/full supervision/full responsibility of the licence holder) would be more appropriate for somebody "assisting" in the hunt (who has no means to actually bag anything themself).

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Originally Posted by Waftrudnir

That's true and does apply to all kind of hunting; e.g. deer or small game drives.
I personally think that this part of the regs is going too far. I would rather think something like the shooting scenario (in hands reach/full supervision/full responsibility of the licence holder) would be more appropriate for somebody "assisting" in the hunt (who has no means to actually bag anything themself).

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That's the premise behind the apprenticeship component.

Sure he can in your boat, towed with your truck, using your gun. I will look for these items at the next auction. Cause you will loose them all if you do!

MNR definition of hunting.

HUNTING:
Includes lying in wait for, searching for, being on the trail of, pursuing,
chasing or shooting at wildlife, whether or not the wildlife is killed, injured,
captured or harassed. You need a hunting licence to do any of these things,
except where the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997, states otherwise.

You don't need to have a gun to be consider hunting. Just that fact that he is with someone who has a gun than he is hunting. My Conservation Officer friend (retired now) has charge people walking through the bush pushing deer for his friend, even though he doesn't have a gun and hunting license. The guy went to court to fight it but he lost the case. Cost him the fine, court fees and a day off from work.

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Originally Posted by lanarkhunter

Just that fact that he is with someone who has a gun than he is hunting.

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This is untrue, they have to be assisting with the pursuit or harvesting of game in some way.

You are fully legal if you are "with someone who has a gun" if your intent is anything besides hunting i.e video taping, taking photos ect.

-Steve

There is a lot of good information in this thread, but the OP needs to clarify one detail. Does your neighbour posses an H1 hunting license?

If yes, then he needs a small game license and a migratory bird permit to hunt. And if he does not have a PAL, then you can only have one gun between you.

If no, then he is out of luck on the hunting part.

He could still come with you and take pictures, but he can't actively participate in the hunt.

Keep in mind a person who has an H2 license can not hunt with a firearm; even though they have a hunting license.

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Originally Posted by Stevedigs04

This is untrue, they have to be assisting with the pursuit or harvesting of game in some way.

You are fully legal if you are "with someone who has a gun" if your intent is anything besides hunting i.e video taping, taking photos ect.

-Steve

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As my Conservation Officer friend explain to me, he will issue a ticket and that person can go to court and explain it to the judge. My information comes from the MNR, not my opinion.

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Originally Posted by lanarkhunter

As my Conservation Officer friend explain to me, he will issue a ticket and that person can go to court and explain it to the judge. My information comes from the MNR, not my opinion.

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Think you guys mean the same thing. Pushing a deer to a waiting hunter illegal. Walking side by side of a deer hunter legal

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Originally Posted by lanarkhunter

As my Conservation Officer friend explain to me, he will issue a ticket and that person can go to court and explain it to the judge. My information comes from the MNR, not my opinion.

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Well technically your info comes from a retired mnr officer's opinion of the law.

I would bet my benelli that 99% of CO would not ticket you if they walked up to the blind with one hunter one gun 6 birds and the other guy holding the video camera.

But don't want to start a fight we are basically saying the same thing.

-Steve

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Originally Posted by lanarkhunter

As my Conservation Officer friend explain to me, he will issue a ticket and that person can go to court and explain it to the judge. My information comes from the MNR, not my opinion.

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And when you get there the judge will trust the opinion of the game warden in writing the ticket and will enforce the law as it is written.

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Originally Posted by lanarkhunter

MNR definition of hunting.

HUNTING:
Includes lying in wait for, searching for, being on the trail of, pursuing,
chasing or shooting at wildlife, whether or not the wildlife is killed, injured,
captured or harassed. You need a hunting licence to do any of these things,
except where the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997, states otherwise.

You don't need to have a gun to be consider hunting. Just that fact that he is with someone who has a gun than he is hunting. My Conservation Officer friend (retired now) has charge people walking through the bush pushing deer for his friend, even though he doesn't have a gun and hunting license. The guy went to court to fight it but he lost the case. Cost him the fine, court fees and a day off from work.

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Im surprised this comes up so often.

Lanark in essence your are correct and as someone one mentioned, "pushing deer" = helping with the hunt, = hunting

What is the definition of hunting? Well you actually need the legal definition per the FWCA. The MNRs definition is the same verbatim but is only the first paragraph, the FWCA defines hunting as the same but includes exceptions. Here it is in its entirety

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"hunting" includes,(a) lying in wait for, searching for, being on the trail of, pursuing, chasing or shooting at wildlife, whether or not the wildlife is killed, injured, captured or harassed, or(b) capturing or harassing wildlife,except that "hunting" does not include,(c) trapping, or(d) lying in wait for, searching for, being on the trail of or pursuing wildlife for a purpose other than attempting to kill, injure, capture or harass it, unless the wildlife is killed, injured, captured or harassed as a result,and "hunt" and "hunter" have corresponding meanings; ("chasse", "chasser", "chasseur")

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Hunting does not include lying in wait for, etc etc....for a purpose other than attempting to kill/injure/capture. Keeps me legal as a photographer that doesn't have a turkey licence or as non hunter without a H1.

UNLESS
through my actions the game is injured, killed, harassed, captured.

Pushing deer so someone might shoot it...Well my actions result in it being shot....I better have my licences because Im hunting.

Shooting at ducks? I better have my licences
Calling them? Well if a duck responds to my call, and a friend shoots it....I am by definition hunting.

Non hunters can observe hunting, take photos, video.
Nature walkers can go walk in the woods, use calls, take pictures.
But if any action results in the game being harassed, injured or killed. It meets the definition of hunting, in which case you better be legal (have the card/licences). As a photographer I can pursue Deer....if it bolts and gets smoked by a car? Well by the letter of the law, Im hunting. my purpose wasn't to injure or kill it...But my actions (unless) its injured or killed..then Im hunting.

http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bills_detail.do?locale=en&BillID=1422&ParlSessionI D=36:1&isCurrent=false

Thanks for all the replies guys, you've confirmed what I already thought, just wanted to confirm.
Couple of things though :
- Internet / computer won't let me download the regs for some reason, and I haven't had a chance to pick up a hard copy, otherwise I wouldn't have asked here.
- the reason for the " shoot & shut up " comment was not intended to show any disrespect to anyone, I just wanted to get straight answers, which you all gave me.
- my neighbour was thinking about getting his license, but wanted to come out for a hunt first.

Thanks again for the responses, he'll have to stick to shooting with his camera, this season anyways.......

Cheers !
Paul

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Originally Posted by pjriley

Thanks for all the replies guys, you've confirmed what I already thought, just wanted to confirm.
Couple of things though :
- Internet / computer won't let me download the regs for some reason, and I haven't had a chance to pick up a hard copy, otherwise I wouldn't have asked here.
- the reason for the " shoot & shut up " comment was not intended to show any disrespect to anyone, I just wanted to get straight answers, which you all gave me.
- my neighbour was thinking about getting his license, but wanted to come out for a hunt first.

Thanks again for the responses, he'll have to stick to shooting with his camera, this season anyways.......

Cheers !
Paul

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Don't be afraid to take him with you,pj. Just don't let him call,shoot or retrieve birds. No CO will write a ticket for it because it's absolutely legal. Enjoy the day with your friend.

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Originally Posted by lanarkhunter

MNR definition of hunting.

HUNTING:
Includes lying in wait for, searching for, being on the trail of, pursuing,
chasing or shooting at wildlife, whether or not the wildlife is killed, injured,
captured or harassed. You need a hunting licence to do any of these things,
except where the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997, states otherwise.

You don't need to have a gun to be consider hunting. Just that fact that he is with someone who has a gun than he is hunting. My Conservation Officer friend (retired now) has charge people walking through the bush pushing deer for his friend, even though he doesn't have a gun and hunting license. The guy went to court to fight it but he lost the case. Cost him the fine, court fees and a day off from work.

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You might want to read the part that you quoted a little further......

Maybe years ago that was the way, but not now.

Here it is....

hunting" includes,(a) lying in wait for, searching for, being on the trail of, pursuing, chasing or shooting at wildlife, whether or not the wildlife is killed, injured, captured or harassed, or(b) capturing or harassing wildlife,except that "hunting" does not include,(c) trapping, or(d) lying in wait for, searching for, being on the trail of or pursuing wildlife for a purpose other than attempting to kill, injure, capture or harass it, unless the wildlife is killed, injured, captured or harassed as a result,and "hunt" and "hunter" have corresponding meanings; ("chasse", "chasser", "chasseur")

An unlicensed person may also assist in the recovery of legally taken game.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

That's the premise behind the apprenticeship component.

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yes and no. the apprenticeship programme requires the safety course (and waterfowl stamp) if I recall correctly. it's a great way getting somebody rather seriously started, don't get me wrong. however, to have somebody with a busy schedule or limited financial resources lick enough blood to get into it is a bit bureaucratic. Let’s put it in perspective: you can have someone shoot in arms reach, marksmanship is not part of the Ontario safety course (we don’t have a legal requirement that anybody is properly trained in shooting; i.e. hitting a target), and they will not harvest more (likely less) than the mentor would have anyways.

On the other hand, I wouldn’t do it and would certainly not advise it to anybody, because of the potential repressions the hunter may face.
Having said that, I wouldn’t necessarily call the MNR if I see one doing exactly that in a safe and responsible manner. Besides the fact that it is questionable if they would ever come. What would they find at the boat launch? One gun, one license, one hunter, on bag of game and a bystander…

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

An unlicensed person may also assist in the recovery of legally taken game.

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That was my understanding as well.

I had a friend years ago who liked to accompany us. ( God knows what he got out of getting up at O dark hundred and going out to a cold and wet duck blind). He would take pictures, and once ducks were down, he'd jump in the canoe, and play retriever.

I had posed this to a CO at one of the Fall Hunting Shows, and he said it was fine, as long as he wasn't calling, or shooting.

Do you really think a CO would charge my son for "hunting" just because he is blowing a duck or goose call in the blind??

I don't think there is a CO in ON that would. Gimme a break.

S.

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Originally Posted by Sinker

Do you really think a CO would charge my son for "hunting" just because he is blowing a duck or goose call in the blind??

I don't think there is a CO in ON that would. Gimme a break.

S.

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I guess that would depend on how old your son is. :P

Regardless of age, that would be pretty poor judgement on any CO IMO.

I plan to take a couple kids this fall who have never been hunting. I've already bought them duck calls to practice on, and I plan to have them use them when we go......at least try them out.

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Originally Posted by Sinker

Do you really think a CO would charge my son for "hunting" just because he is blowing a duck or goose call in the blind??

I don't think there is a CO in ON that would. Gimme a break.

S.

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I have run into a couple who most certainly would, if he was of a chargeable age !!!!

It's funny, I read many of the posts on this forum and think..........Man these CO's are an ornry bunch, running around and handing out fines like candy on Halloween. Then I meet up with one (I've even hunted with a couple) and he is actually a sensible person, not this charge crazed maniac portrayed on here, I bet maybe they even drink beer:) Sinker, I think your safe.

Yes there are anal pricks in every profession especially some in law enforcement but most would let it fly as long as only one shooter is involved . I always had kids involved and a wife too that were not licensed at the time and ran across my share of CO's and never a problem . Just like Sinker . I'll continue like always and won't lose any sleep over it .

TD

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Originally Posted by Sinker

Do you really think a CO would charge my son for "hunting" just because he is blowing a duck or goose call in the blind??

I don't think there is a CO in ON that would. Gimme a break.

S.

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Maybe not. But, they can. That's the point.

I'd say it probably depends on age, and what kind of day the CO was having.

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Originally Posted by skeeter1

It's funny, I read many of the posts on this forum and think..........Man these CO's are an ornry bunch, running around and handing out fines like candy on Halloween. Then I meet up with one (I've even hunted with a couple) and he is actually a sensible person, not this charge crazed maniac portrayed on here, I bet maybe they even drink beer:) Sinker, I think your safe.

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I know I'm safe, no worries there.

I think your charge crazed maniacs are the "Internet Police".

How do you think I got started into hunting? I was in the blind as soon as I could walk and hold a duck call. My old man and I have sat in the blind with a CO many times while I called the ducks in....too young to hunt....but a better caller than the old man.

Some of these guys think CO's are out to nail you for everything and anything to the letter of the law. We're talking about taking a newbie, or a kid hunting....

S.

Agreed.

Most COs wouldn't give a hoot. I got started the same way you did.

There are a lot of newbies out there who are going to read these posts though. Saying "you're fine" is a bit of a blanket statement, and an incorrect one.

A CO wouldn't necessarily have an issue with a kid in a blind calling. Define a "kid"? What you're answer is may be different from someone else. 10? 12? 16? maybe even 18?

Just because, let's put this another way....."son....walk along that fenceline opposite us and see if you can get those turkeys in the field to move this way...."

It's all in the interpretation.

"know your safe"?

Wouldn't that fall under "knowing your safe taking pics of fish caught Out of Season" which the MNR has said, it's illegal?

The problem with these kinds of transgressions is "who gets to draw the line".
So in some books, it's ok to break the letter of the law.....and in others it's not ok...How do you feel about going 1 over limit Sinker? Or if not that, whats your take on using electronic calls?

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Question 160: Is it illegal to spot light for deer or moose at night if you don't have a weapon in your possession?
Asked February 9, 2003
Answer from the MNR
Generally, it is legal to spot deer or moose at night as long as you don't have any firearms in your possession. However, "hunting" in the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act includes "searching for,…," or if the animal is "injured,…,or harrassed" as a result of your actions. Therefore you could be charged with night hunting if it is deemed that you harassed or injured the animal in question by virtue of your activity.

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Theres no "interpretation" or grey area's.
If your actions result in game being harassed, injured or killed....You are hunting.

The law says it quite clearly, someone who is not a hunter (unliscenced) working calls while someone else shoots is "hunting". And therefore it would be illegal. in plain English

Poaching.

Now, whether or not a CO would lay charges is up to the CO and no-one else.
But no matter how its sliced, its poaching, hunting without a liscence

I wont get into debates about the Spirit and the Letter. Just saying, the letter of the law says its poaching.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

... I got started the same way you did.

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As most of us got started this or a similar way (be it duck or something else) why are we not advocating for it?
(To the internet police, I'm not saying that you should break the rules, but advocate changing them accordingly)

Ok, you guys take your kids out and don't let them touch the calls, thats fine. I'm cool with that. My son, however, will blow a call.

Give me the ticket, call me a poacher LOL

S.

At a guess Waftrudr "where do you draw the line" ?
Is it ok for a kid to learn how to call on Marsh while dad shoots? Why not on a Marsh whitout guns present?
Would it then be ok, to send your kid and his friend into the bush to push deer for you?

Look, there are all kinds of similar things. The "law" says it's illegal to interfere with hunts right? And we all know, how we all feel about that. Interference is interference right? Is some interference by Antis ok, and some not? Im betting everyone will say.......

For what its worth I quite like the way its written.
Makes it very possible for COs to charge non hunters when they see stuff they don't like. Say a non hunter harassing Deer non stop....Or to the point where it runs out onto a road and gets smoked.

I couldn't find it, but the MNR has said somewhere....If you let your dog, harass rabbits...well you could be charged, your hunting.

Well as said Sinker, by the letter of the law that is poaching and if its ok to do that....Shall we use our kids to bump and push deer?

Do what you want and too each his own. It will be up to a CO but admit/know you are breaking the law, just as you are when you do 125km, in a 100km zone

I seem to break a lot of letters of the law because I still believe that the spirit of the law is not an illusion , and so I am a poacher for letting my kids grow up in the field at my side . Oh well so be it then , but at least my kids got the attention they needed and didn't grow up to mug,steal or rob little old ladies . Not drug dealers either but I guess I made a very big mistake by raising them "my way" and should have left them at home instead in front of the T.V. with their ipods etc to become model citizens of that enviroment instead .

TD

Lol D.
As stated entering into debates between what seem feel is ok (within the spirit) and what not is pointless.
Some have strong feeling about hunting over bait? No? Well the "law" says it's ok.

Its says 30 minutes before/after sunrise and sunset.
Is 40 minutes ok?

See also debates about Ethics.
At the end of the day, the "fallback" is the written letter of the law. Interference is interference, trespassing is trespassing, aiding a hunt is illegal. Hunting without a license.

Done "end of debate".
We all know given the spirit it will be up to the CO, but that doesn't change the underlying fact. The "law" is being broken and you can be charged. Personally I like the fact it makes it very possible to lay charges against non hunters....who harass/injure game and wildlife...

400 yards from bait. Is 350 ok?
Well see what happened to Turkey Rookie.

LOL No worries John . Yes the law is the law is the law . And then there is me .;) I'm spiritual not religious . ;) A good sinner though I be . :thumbup:;) The Priest though, with his good book shakes his finger . LOL

TD

Guess what Im driving at.

The written letter of the law says once last legal hits.
We cant track a wounded WT and dispatch it.
Bows must be encased.
We must wear orange to and from a stand bear hunting
So many we might list..thousands.
trespassing is trespassing..."I was lost and trying to my home your honor"
Aiding a hunt is illegal

Would we "advise" or suggest to anyone it's ok to walk back to a car 35 minutes past sunset bow/rifle unencased?
Would we suggest its ok to walk to a stand without orange?
Track that wounded WT onto PP...

Its not about what I or anyone feels is right/wrong, whether COs should, will or wont lay a charge. That's up to the COs.

The "written" letter makes it pretty clear.

"to each his own"

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Originally Posted by 400bigbear

I seem to break a lot of letters of the law because I still believe that the spirit of the law is not an illusion , and so I am a poacher for letting my kids grow up in the field at my side . Oh well so be it then , but at least my kids got the attention they needed and didn't grow up to mug,steal or rob little old ladies . Not drug dealers either but I guess I made a very big mistake by raising them "my way" and should have left them at home instead in front of the T.V. with their ipods etc to become model citizens of that enviroment instead .

TD

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I guess there are two very distinct groups, and that's what I like on this forum;-) You get some perspective.
In live there is no absolute right/wrong, good/evil. It would be childish to think that. Speaking of it, in how many differnt juridictions did those of us hunt that love the letter of the law so much that they would never ever even consider that there would be another way doing it? If you get around a bit, you'll soon get a very good appreciation that the only thing that really matters is safety and ethics (no matter where you go and that is not limited th hunting.)

By the way - it's actually a black/white question (so they do exist ;-)), does anyone know how to change your pseudonym without creating a new account?

Only caveat I would add.
Do keep in mind Waftrudir, we aren't in our garages at a table over beer. These are the OOD forums and there are reasons why

Posting pics of OOS fish is a no-no, posting pics of untagged animals is a no-no.

This "debate" comes up a couple times a year, much like the OOS fish, untagged animals. The written letter of the law says......

If someone ask
Is it illegal for my kids to call, while I hunt....theres really only one answer.

Yes it is a black / white question and Jben and others are absolutely correct as it is written and will be interpreted in court . But Sinker and I will take it to the Supreme Court of Canada and call it unconstitutional if we got busted because " bla,blah,blah " . LOL . Heck why not ?;) What can be done and what will be done can be two different things . I don't suggest for anyone to follow our lead . This is OOD after all . :D Years ago before the apprenticeship program I was there with CO, and OPP hunters and our kids were along as we hunted . Older kids called and younger ones ran the dogs . Poachers we were according to the fine letter of the law . Oh well . :scream:

TD

So much for the golden future, I can't even start
I've had every promise broken, there's anger in my heart
you don't know what it's like, you don't have a clue
if you did you'd find yourselves doing the same thing too

Breaking the law, breaking the law
Breaking the law, breaking the law

Great song.....Just Sayin :)

Not really what Im getting BB :)

OOD is Canadas leading publication, it must at all times be professional, be legal.
We all know thousands of fish are cought OOS and pics are taken...Im not aware of any charges.
We all know people come upon their Deer, Bears, Moose, Turkey...Snap a quick pic and then tag.

The letter of the law says pics of oos fish is illegal,
big game must be tagged.
Why are those no-nos here?
Because by the letter of the law, it's illegal

The MNR says
That a non hunter who aids a hunt is hunting.
That spot lighting deer at night even in the absence of guns, if its injured or killed...
That a non hunter whose actions result in game being injured/killed (say a kid working a call) is hunting.

Its illegal
Just as trespassing is, or interference is or many others.

If someone ask "is taking a pic of a fish OOS legal" whats the answer? "here'?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JBen

Not really what Im getting BB :)

OOD is Canadas leading publication, it must at all times be professional, be legal.
We all know thousands of fish are cought OOS and pics are taken...Im not aware of any charges.
We all know people come upon their Deer, Bears, Moose, Turkey...Snap a quick pic and then tag.

The letter of the law says pics of oos fish is illegal,
big game must be tagged.
Why are those no-nos here?
Because by the letter of the law, it's illegal

The MNR says
That a non hunter who aids a hunt is hunting.
That spot lighting deer at night even in the absence of guns, if its injured or killed...
That a non hunter whose actions result in game being injured/killed (say a kid working a call) is hunting.

Its illegal
Just as trespassing is, or interference is or many others.

If someone ask "is taking a pic of a fish OOS legal" whats the answer? "here'?

---

C'mon John, we get where you're coming from and understand your opinion. There is THE LAW and then there is the ethics of everyone who abides by and those who enforce THE LAW, we will all have our own opinion about what's right and what's wrong in parallel of what THE LAW says.

No need for anyone to get bent out of shape!!

Frosty.

Take the pic and let the fishy go . LOL:thumbup: :D . It wasn't my hands holding it . It was the gloves . :D

TD

If the glove don't fit you must acquit :)

thought of a good way to say it. OOD both the mag and these forums is/are a leading authority where people come for advice. Some things are very grey, this isn't really. What we do in our private lives is up to us ( say like doing 120 in a 100 zone). If something is "illegal" and asked about here...."Do I have to encase my bow 35 minutes after sunset"....Can a non hunter join me. We really should just be answering what the MNR says...If people want to do differently.

To each his own

/edit
Frosty. Why are pics of OOS fish a no-no here, untagged animals? Im not "bent" simply pointing out that we really shouldn't be telling people its ok for our children to aid in hunts, when clearly the law says....it can result in charges......not here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JBen

/edit
Frosty. Why are pics of OOS fish a no-no here, untagged animals? Im not "bent" simply pointing out that we really shouldn't be telling people its ok for our children to aid in hunts, when clearly the law says....it can result in charges......not here.

---

Exactly. As pointed out earlier, this isn't a chewing the fat session around a table with a bunch of guys who are familiar with one another ( although some of us do socialize off here). This is a very visible forum, that is populated by a large range of outdoor experience. Let's also not forget that everything we say on here is visible to the entire world should they so choose to go looking......not just fellow outdoorsmen.

LOL You guys take yourselves far too seriously, I'm still letting the little kid blow the call, personally I never met a CO that would charge me for that, recruitment of new hunters is in the interest of everyone including the CO.

Whether this is OOD property or not I more or less view it as the public forum of the OFAH and as such I am perfectly allowed to tell you my opinion just as you are entitled to tell me yours :)

Go ahead Frosty I invite you to post pics of OOS Fish and untagged big game

and by all means on this topic...Do what you see fit, honestly :). Theres "no judgement"

It is illegal though and your opinion (right or wrong I make no call/judgement ) is that its ok to tell advise people its ok to do illegal things here on the OOD forums and thats where your "wrong". Whether COs should, will or won't isn't the point.

I personally do not know or have heard of a single person thats been charged for spotlighting at night (see MNRs response) or taking pics of OOS fish (see MNRs response and see the OOD Forum rules).

Whether a CO decides to lay or charge not is immaterial, by the letter of the law its "illegal". Would you advise someone to interfere with a hunt? No? why not?
Thats a pretty rare charge to.

We shouldn't advise or tell people its ok, here on these forums when the letter clearly says its illegal, just as taking pics of oos fish….

one thing i think we can all agrea on is im glad jben is not a CO, and i dont wanna be stuck behind him on the 401 driving 100 km/hr ;)

lol just kidding

lol, actually your wrong..If it was my call I wouldnt

Look the MNR has made it pretty clear "aiding" in the hunt is illegal. They have given the example (along with many others) of a non hunter walking along with hunters..too far away and that can (not should or will CAN) be seen as pushing deer, aiding in the hunt and it can result in charges.

A child "pushing" deer
A child calling ducks

no material difference, both are aiding the hunt, both illegal. These are the OOD forums where doing illegal things (like pics of OOS fish is illegal and CAN result in charges)…….

Nuff said

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JBen

Go ahead Frosty I invite you to post pics of OOS Fish and untagged big game

and by all means on this topic...Do what you see fit, honestly :). Theres "no judgement"

---

Dude honestly I think you've lost it, re-read my posts, I have never ever mentioned anything about un tagged game or OSS fish photos LOLOLOL

All my game is tagged and I fish maybe x2 per year while everything is in season, I dare you to find a single picture of me with a fish on this entire forum LOL

You can apologize whenever you're ready :)

PS. I'm not the slightest bit worried that I'll ever face a prosecution
because I said on here that I would let a little kid blow a call in my duck blind...

I think what Ben is saying is that on ood we as a community should not give advice to "illegal" activity whether it is as minor as a kid blowing a duck call.
OR as big as shooting a moose from a truck while driving down hwy 11 in the spring time in the middle of the night.

Ya your prbly right a co won't care. But to advice you to do that is against the policy of the forum. The website. Ofah policies.. And old policies.

However. Your right and a co won't care.

Yeah, well ya know what, he can't tell me what I can say or not, I haven't broken any rules on here or given any advice, I have just told my opinion and talked about one thing that I myself have no problem to do, letting a kid blow a freaking duck call!!! Lock me up and throw away the keys LOL

I have no clue how this thread escalated into talked about untagged game or OOS fish photos, personal agendas I guess.



fo·rum noun \ˈfȯr-əm\
: a meeting at which a subject can be discussed


: a place or opportunity for discussing a subject

BINGO!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by topher

I think what Ben is saying is that on ood we as a community should not give advice to "illegal" activity whether it is as minor as a kid blowing a duck call.
OR as big as shooting a moose from a truck while driving down hwy 11 in the spring time in the middle of the night.

Ya your prbly right a co won't care. But to advice you to do that is against the policy of the forum. The website. Ofah policies.. And old policies.

However. Your right and a co won't care.

---

Alrighty then . I'm locking this thread down . Who has the key ? LOL

TD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 400bigbear

Alrighty then . I'm locking this thread down . Who has the key ? LOL

TD

---

Nope not without an apology.

Frosty, Topher has the right of it.
if anyone has taken anything "personally" (lost it)…And I won't apologize because I didn't accuse you of taking pics of either, nor have I suggested what people decide to do for themselves…Its not for me to tell anyone how to live their life.. I invited you to post them, (go find something on the net and post it here if you must) so you could witness first hand the mods removing them.

It is illegal to take the pics. I have never heard of a single charge, but illegal is illegal.
OOD will not allow them on the forums. They are professional, "professional" hunters/anglers, a leading authority whose "job" is to promote the outdoors, promote and educate safety and the laws, Im sure you've seen it thousands of times…be safe, be legal and you will never see anything in the mag or in OFAH publications that hint at something the MNR says is illegal, no matter how minor, how unlikely, let alone "proof" positive. The forums are an extension of OOD.

I contribute to the magazine…Lets say I get charged with taking a pic of an oos fish, or allowing someone to aid in a hunt.

Do you think OOD will still use me? No, because I am an extension of OOD/OFAH, my actions, my reputation reflect on them. And don't say "no", think of the gazillion guys that have run afoul and what happens...

We are not free to do and say as we please here. We are allowed our opinions, doesn't mean we can or should discuss them all….

Now about apologies. :)
Don't worry, I rarely take anything "personally" unless its blatantly obvious, you can if you wish apologize for saying Im bent (not) or that Ive lost it (personal insult against forum rules) or for misinterpreting what I didn't say (please quote where I said you do). But Im a big guy and a nice guy, so don't feel like you owe me one :). It's all good.

Would you tell or advise someone who ask if it's ok for unliscenced child to drive a car, operate a boat.
Yeah go ahead I let my child drive the boat/car all the time…………...

for the record I was driving boats by the age of ten. And for the record driving my dads car by 14 with him in the passenger seat. Doesn't mean we should publicly tell people its ok, I do it all the time, you won't get charged..

Now, sometimes I find it "helpful" to take something to an extreme end. Lets say I don't know what the law says and I ask here if I can let a non hunter aid in a hunt, ad you and some others say "Sure go ahead, I do it all the time, you won't get charged"…..So I do to.

And a CO does in fact lay charges, and my young sons day is ruined very badly, and he has tears streaming down his face, getting into trouble himself and watching his dad get into trouble with the law….

Are you going to apologize to him?
Take responsibility?

Holy....looks like I kinda started a bit of a rant here, huh?

I apologize to the OP for that. I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

For someone to make such a big deal over a kid blowing a duck call in the blind is really disturbing to me.

S.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinker

Holy....looks like I kinda started a bit of a rant here, huh?

I apologize to the OP for that. I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

For someone to make such a big deal over a kid blowing a duck call in the blind is really disturbing to me.

S.

---

Sometimes,these threads can get way too "over-complicated." This is turning into one them. LOL

Well kind of agree, but this specific topic (like taking pics of OOS fish) comes up a lot. I do find it kind of surprising Sinker that it, like the OOS debate needs to be rehashed time and time again :)

We all know there is the letter of the law
We all know there is the spirit of the law
Its not a COs or LEOs job to interpret the law, (does anyone disagree, think its ok for the CFO to interpret safe storage, handling laws ?) it's their job to apply the laws as they are written.
They do get to apply their discretion.

Maybe some CO wakes up on the wrong side of the bed, or just found out his wife has been cheating on him or he's an ornery stickler for the letter of the law.

Would you want to "be responsible" for some young kids day being utterly ruined and ending up in tears rather than smiles?

And OOD and these forums cannot be seen to be condoing or advocating anything "illegal" no matter how minor (see the OOS fish pic debates).

Cheers
:)

Where did OOS fish pics and all the other off topic stuff you've dragged into this come from, anyways?

Im talking about letting a kid blow a duck call in the blind. Big freakin whoop!!! I did it, I'm sure you did it, and I'm sure every other waterfowler, including most CO's did it too. Get over it, move on, life is too short to be worrying about the small stuff!!!

S.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinker

Ok, you guys take your kids out and don't let them touch the calls, thats fine. I'm cool with that. My son, however, will blow a call.

Give me the ticket, call me a poacher LOL

S.

---

OK , you are a poacher!

Well your a sheet disturber FMC . Never happy unless your sheet disturbing . LOL

TD

He asked someone to.

you guys all overreact did you have all your liscences before you shot a gun? or went out on your first hunt? doubt it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

I know of NO ONE, who would hunt with someone without a licence.

---

Never mentioned hunting.. Was talking about SHOOTING... I thought that was obvious....
I posted what I said again... If you could explain to me where mentioned taking anyone hunting without a license.. Please let me know...

Quote:

---

You don't need a license to "shoot" a gun.... You need a license to posses and buy a gun...

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JBen

Frosty, Topher has the right of it.
if anyone has taken anything "personally" (lost it)…And I won't apologize because I didn't accuse you of taking pics of either, nor have I suggested what people decide to do for themselves…Its not for me to tell anyone how to live their life.. I invited you to post them, (go find something on the net and post it here if you must) so you could witness first hand the mods removing them.

It is illegal to take the pics. I have never heard of a single charge, but illegal is illegal.
OOD will not allow them on the forums. They are professional, "professional" hunters/anglers, a leading authority whose "job" is to promote the outdoors, promote and educate safety and the laws, Im sure you've seen it thousands of times…be safe, be legal and you will never see anything in the mag or in OFAH publications that hint at something the MNR says is illegal, no matter how minor, how unlikely, let alone "proof" positive. The forums are an extension of OOD.

I contribute to the magazine…Lets say I get charged with taking a pic of an oos fish, or allowing someone to aid in a hunt.

Do you think OOD will still use me? No, because I am an extension of OOD/OFAH, my actions, my reputation reflect on them. And don't say "no", think of the gazillion guys that have run afoul and what happens...

We are not free to do and say as we please here. We are allowed our opinions, doesn't mean we can or should discuss them all….

Now about apologies. :)
Don't worry, I rarely take anything "personally" unless its blatantly obvious, you can if you wish apologize for saying Im bent (not) or that Ive lost it (personal insult against forum rules) or for misinterpreting what I didn't say (please quote where I said you do). But Im a big guy and a nice guy, so don't feel like you owe me one :). It's all good.

Would you tell or advise someone who ask if it's ok for unliscenced child to drive a car, operate a boat.
Yeah go ahead I let my child drive the boat/car all the time…………...

for the record I was driving boats by the age of ten. And for the record driving my dads car by 14 with him in the passenger seat. Doesn't mean we should publicly tell people its ok, I do it all the time, you won't get charged..

Now, sometimes I find it "helpful" to take something to an extreme end. Lets say I don't know what the law says and I ask here if I can let a non hunter aid in a hunt, ad you and some others say "Sure go ahead, I do it all the time, you won't get charged"…..So I do to.

And a CO does in fact lay charges, and my young sons day is ruined very badly, and he has tears streaming down his face, getting into trouble himself and watching his dad get into trouble with the law….

Are you going to apologize to him?
Take responsibility?

---

LMAO JBen, ok I apologize for saying you were bent out of shape! I also apologize for saying you lost it, if you took that as a personal insult, there you go I AM the bigger man. I apologize.

By the way, for me, bent means twisted or misaligned to me - nothing else....

If you dare someone to post pictures of certain "situations" that for me inferes that you believe that they have them, which I don't....but you surely understand what you communicted to the rest of the readers by saying that.

The only thing I'm guilty of is letting little guys blow duck calls and hating Remington Versamax's LOL.

Your business connections to OOD is your business, no-one else's, but I do understand the personal bias that must come about when discussing such matters. I have no business affiliations to my sport whatsoever.

OK Enough YOUR turn......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

OK , you are a poacher!

---

Now THATS getting personal! LOL

S.

You asked!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by topher

You don't need a license to "shoot" a gun.... You need a license to posses and buy a gun...

---

I know of NO ONE, who would hunt with someone without a licence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by duckmassacre

you guys all overreact did you have all your liscences before you shot a gun? or went out on your first hunt? doubt it.

---

Well ... I can admit some things right here ... I was likely about 8 years old when I had a pellet gun and shot hundreds of blackbirds each year ... about 12 years old was given a .22 and again with it shot hundreds of blackbirds, as well as coons, crows and other nuisance animals each year ... as a farm kid almost 40 years ago this just seemed normal to me, I did not know any different, but I was taught the correct way to handle my firearms ... the early start made me experienced and safe, but, of course, I was 16 before any FAC or hunting courses could be taken ... so, do some here think I should now turn myself in?

Hey Gadwall, let me be the first to welcome you to the Poacher club!!!

We gotta stick together!!

S.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinker

Hey Gadwall, let me be the first to welcome you to the Poacher club!!!

We gotta stick together!!

S.

---

Am I in?, seems like good company LOL....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinker

Hey Gadwall, let me be the first to welcome you to the Poacher club!!!

We gotta stick together!!

S.

---

When does the club meet? I never thought of it as poaching ... more like protecting the crops and/or feeding myself ... whichever term, still seems the same to me ... sure was fun though when I was a little kid.

9 pages
"Common sense is surprisingly uncommon" Mark Twain

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frosty

Am I in?, seems like good company LOL....

---

Guilty as charged and if that's all it takes as my kid blowing a call , walking through the bush or working my retriever ... Then I am part of the poacher clan too . And in good company .

I understand all of Jben's points and although those facts are correct as far as the written law for the most part it really is not, what as a rule happens . I don't think anyone said to break any law .

I hate these debates because legally by definition of LAW I'm wrong BUT morally, ethically and with good conscience I feel right . Were promoting hunting that only us as the real deal can . Best thing that has come out because of OFAH is the Apprenticeship Program . Alot of us were doing it already and our mentors were before us . Some of us just start our kids earlier . My dear dad has passed so can no longer be charged with endangering a child .negligence etc etc by teaching me gun safety, hunting, etc .

I have done the same and will continue to just like Sinker and a few . My girls worked the dog mostly . Im trying to find pic of Sammy in her pink snow suit working the dog as ducks fell . She was 2 and a half years old . Actually she is the poacher not I .. lol

Jben . My adversary but not . What you say is true as far as the law, and OOD and its rules .

Really J ,? some of us ol rounders are not here to battle the system or tell anyone the regs bud . Were not trying to rewrite or BS about how it is to MISINFORM in any way as to the LAW and regs . Sorry if that is your thought or OOD stance . Were promoting, and yes if certain rules are followed it is all good . Some of us greyline but, oh well . As far as the OP . Answer for most part is NO but I'll take him . He can observe and run boat . Might be understood as illegal though .

TD

At the end of the day, do away with all the "extra" stuff.

Is the topic significantly "different" than the OOS fish pic debates that, which just as this topic ( letting non hunters work duck calls) people rehash "all the time"…... . If your child catches a big LM OOS and you snap a quick pic does anyone think a CO will lay a charge? Should?

Will that pic be "permitted" here. Should those pics be posted here? See also un tagged big game.
No? Why not? If the law says its "illegal" there is a chance, its possible charges could be laid……So should we (and OOD) advocate something that "techicnally" is illegal.

It really isn't any more complicated than that.

Sinker on "that" comment" you missed the nuance.
"if" lighting strikes and someone is charged for hunting without a liscence. What will you call them? We both know the answer :) Don't "deny" it…Aka if the press release reads "John Doe charged for hunting without a liscence"…We both know you would say that person isn't a hunter, he's a poacher. You might change your mind when you read the devil details and discover it was a person learning to call without a a liscnce but…...

If you guys want to keep going and going like energizer bunnies knock yourselves out :).

Hey J stop comparing us letting our kids blow a duck call to OOS fishing and untagged big game.

I hope you read my apology cause there was a lot of mustering involved in order for me to do that, I felt like a Spaniel at bedtime LOL, so whenever your ready bud......

No worry Frosty it was more tongue in cheek, I didn't need or want one :) but thanks all the same and no I haven't gone back to read everything…kind of pointless.

the point is and it is "pertinent" here on the forums. If something is technically illegal, no matter how we feel about it it is "technically" illegal, and that means charges "could" be laid. So it is very much like the others…THose pics aren't allowed, will never be used in the mag, or here…because its technically illegal

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gadwall

Well ... I can admit some things right here ... I was likely about 8 years old when I had a pellet gun and shot hundreds of blackbirds each year ... about 12 years old was given a .22 and again with it shot hundreds of blackbirds, as well as coons, crows and other nuisance animals each year ... as a farm kid almost 40 years ago this just seemed normal to me, I did not know any different, but I was taught the correct way to handle my firearms ... the early start made me experienced and safe, but, of course, I was 16 before any FAC or hunting courses could be taken ... so, do some here think I should now turn myself in?

---

I think that was called growing up in the seventies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bardern

I think that was called growing up in the seventies.

---

Also in the 60's and late 50's.:thumbup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frosty

Am I in?, seems like good company LOL....

---

I guess I can join that club as I also took my daughter goose and duck hunting with me after work when I would pick her up at either the baby sitters or my parents , till she was old enough to stay by herself for a few hours till my wife got home .

While she was with me in the blind, I would also let her blow a duck or goose call when things slowed down , when I mentioned this to my buddy a full time CO., he thought it was great no thought of any charges being laid, he then also did the same with his daughter as she was just a couple of months younger than mine .

Laws are Laws, but a bit of common sense and discretion also has to be used .

I was the dog feild hunting ducks for my Dad and uncles and their buddies till I was 9 then I was given the 410 of my Grandfathers and shot some ducks my first was a hen mallard and I'll never forget that day I even remeber the field I was in :D

Hmmm....we're quite the bunch of poachers now aren't we LOL

S.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinker

Hmmm....we're quite the bunch of poachers now aren't we LOL


S.

---

I would hazzard a guess that there's not one person of adult age, that hasn't fractured a law or two at one point or another.
As far as kids blowing duck calls, have at 'er. They can't be charged anyway. No CO would look twice !

My son at 9 years old would go with me as well. He even pointed out some birds. I don't think that is the real intention of the law. Even an unlicensed adult....if they said look ...a deer over there... I think one would be pushing the "hunting" definition a bit. I'd fight that one if there was an officer that felt that was worth giving a ticket to!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rick_iles

I would hazzard a guess that there's not one person of adult age, that hasn't fractured a law or two at one point or another.
As far as kids blowing duck calls, have at 'er. They can't be charged anyway. No CO would look twice !

---

Sh-h-h,don't tell them that. It would spoil this ridiculous argument. LOL

I take my 9 year out for geese, he points them out, technically it is illegal, but I doubt anyone will say anything about a 10 year old. Now if you had another adult out they calling and spotting, I would imagine the CO wouldn't be none to harpy about.

Back in the 1950's in NS. My mother's family was poor. Back then it was pretty common to poach to put food on the table. My Grandfather would go at at night when the tides were right and poach lobsters, they use to call them "Red Ones". As well back then when he needed meat he just went out and shot a deer. It was survival back then. Mom use to get made fun of sometimes at school because she was poor and was always eating lobster sandwiches, it was considered the poor mans food back then. Poaching was almost a must back in those days.

In the 1960's I think can't remember now my Grandfather became the manager of the airport and part of his job was to walk the run way and shoot Pheasants so they didn't hit the planes. So mom also had a lot of Pheasant dinners back then. He even had a 12 gauge single shot that was stamped Ont he side "Government of Canada Issued". My cousin got that gun.

Apart from the Regs this is the most read thread for 10 pages LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

I know of NO ONE, who would hunt with someone without a licence.

---

i go hunting with my friend all the time he has a hunting license... but doesn't have a PAL.... hes got his h1 too..
again as per what i said...
you dont need a icense to SHOOT a gun. you need one to own and buy a gun. under superivision of a licensed owner it's perfectly legal..
now, if your talking hunting licences.. you not reading properly what has been said...
advise your re-read it

Chris

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by topher

i go hunting with my friend all the time he has a hunting license... but doesn't have a PAL.... hes got his h1 too..
again as per what i said...
you dont need a icense to SHOOT a gun. you need one to own and buy a gun. under superivision of a licensed owner it's perfectly legal..
now, if your talking hunting licences.. you not reading properly what has been said...
advise your re-read it

Chris

---

If you are using a gun each, then you are in the wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BLR308

If you are using a gun each, then you are in the wrong.

---

You are correct. But we aren't ;) sometimes I carry.. Sometimes she carries.. Her ex bf... Doesn't like guns.. And won't sign off on the conjugal partner thing...so she is going to wait a year and then he won't matter.. Due to the 5 year thing...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by topher

You are correct. But we aren't ;) sometimes I carry.. Sometimes she carries.. Her ex bf... Doesn't like guns.. And won't sign off on the conjugal partner thing...so she is going to wait a year and then he won't matter.. Due to the 5 year thing...

---

On Page 3 of "Application for a Possession and Acquisition Licence Under the Firearms Act (for Individuals Aged 18 and Over)" (form 5592), section F, "Information About Former Conjugal Partner (Refer to Information Sheet)" specifies the following:

Provide information about your former conjugal partners. This includes any person, other than the person named in Box 18, with whom you have lived in a conjugal relationship within the last two (2) years. If you need more space, list the information on a separate sheet of paper.

If it has been over two years, you are good to go.