Printable View
This will be my first year hunting deer with a muzzleloader, was wondering what you guys do at the end of the day if you have'nt got a shot at anything. I prefer not to shoot it off for sure. I have a CVA Wolf and will be using powerbelt bullets and two powder pellets. If I dropped the powder out the back and pushed the bullet through would it still be usable or should I use a new bullet/powder each day? Thanks
Take the primer off , your unloaded and safe and legal for transporting.
you can leave the powder and lead in the gun just remove the cap and you are good to go home and back the next day .the only time I would be worried about leaving the powder in the gun over night is if you got cought out in heavy rain and every thing got real wet .Dutch
All of the above
Ahh the annual thread that causes so much consternation..:)
Wait for it....wait for it....LOL....
I'm waiting Mike Pal . ;) Shall I just for fun start the ball rolling ? . LMAO :D:fish:Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
TD
come on someone - point out the difference between provincial MNR regulations and Federal Firearms legislation re: storage. Mike?
Once you take out the primer, you can remove the breech, let the powder pellets fall out and then push out the bullet... You can and I have reused the bullet with no ill effects...
Just take out the primer.
The OP question is on how to unload an in-line....but it always expands to the question...is there a need to 'unload'.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLakePete
Your right Pete...let's put that on the table...
Quote:
definition of 'Unload' from the Firearms Act:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/r...age-1.html#h-1
“unloaded”
“unloaded”, in respect of a firearm, means that any propellant, projectile or cartridge that can be discharged from the firearm is not contained in the breech or firing chamber of the firearm nor in the cartridge magazine attached to or inserted into the firearm. (non chargée)
MNR page 23
A muzzle-loading gun is a gun that is loaded through the
muzzle. A percussion muzzle-loading gun is considered to
be loaded if there is a charge of powder and a projectile in
the barrel and a percussion cap on the nipple. A flint-lock
muzzle-loading gun is considered to be loaded if there is a
charge of powder and a projectile in the barrel and the vent is
unplugged. An electronic muzzle-loading gun is considered to
be loaded if there is a projectile in the barrel.
I believe if you're transporting home, the gun has to be completely unloaded, if transporting to another hunting spot, the gun can be charged but the cap/flint/primer has to be removed
To answer, because your using pellets this may not be as much an issue, unless the pellets crumbled when you've tamped/rammed down the load, but with loose powder trying to dump the powder out the back end after you've removed the plug is that it will get contaminated with the antiseize grease and it will stick into the threads in the barrel/breach. Makes a real mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by karpfarmer
I tried it once and swore I would never do it again. I opt to shoot it and reload.
There are two things to be concerned with. Transport and Storage overnight.
Transport - Remove the primer and you are good to go.
Storage - It must be unloaded. No Powder or Projectile.
Many forgo step two for an overnighter. Not legal. Do so at your own risk.
In my flintlock I totally unload each night. You can use the old projectile for practice.
The easiest way to unload is to watch the fireworks just before the end of legal light.
The cleanest way to un load; http://reviews.cabelas.com/8815/2144...rating&dir=asc
That is what I use.
HA
I have no first hand experience, as I don't own one. One of the fella's I know who does, dumps the powder, pushes the projectile back up, and re-uses that for the range days, for hunting, it's a fresh load.
I use loose powder, so like mentioned above it makes a mess when dumping it, so I shoot to unload... and it is illegal to transport home with just the cap/primer/flint removed, the gun has to be completely empty
This is where Federal and Provincial codes vary. I consulted the MNR last year by e-mail and got a reply from a CO. The CO did not consider a muzzle loader loaded without all 3 components present. The Feds say removal of the primer makes it safe only to transport between hunting sites, not to transport home or store. To keep powder and projectile in it is unsafe storage and liable for criminal charges with the possibility of losing the opportunity to own firearms. It is not worth the risk. Fire it at days end.
some were I seen a adaptor for a air compressor that will unload you muzzle loader .not sure were but it should work Dutch
I use BH209 and Hornady SST's. The loose powder makes a mess in my plug threads and the sabot is compressed from the rifling. It makes less mess to shoot it out. You can't trust a sabot with rifling marks. If I go to practice, I don't want something that has been loaded before which could hit differently making me question what is happening. If you load pellets, chances are that they will have bits broken off with a firm bullet seating. Go away from your hunting area and fire it into the ground before putting in your vehicle.
I have seen the unloaders that screw into nipple threads and use CO2 cartridges but not for 209 primer pockets.
The reviews on that peice of kit sure aren't very good except for the Hawkins style ML's....sounds like it's pretty much useless for the new in-lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by huntaway
Yes....rather make smoke than try to save 90 grs of powder...there's a stump below the tree stand with more than a few hunks of lead in it...:)
Interesting ?? As far as the Fed's are concerned everything has to be removed " that can be discharged from the firearm" Not much is going to happen with no primer in a ML. Been stopped 2x ml hunting moose in 7a year's ago in a boat and once around here for deer ! No problem ! There is a grey area there ! Haven't dealt with fed's but I have certainly challenged the MNR reg's with a couple grey areas that I stumped them and a CO on. Didn't get fixed or rewrote as they said they were going to this year. They did thank me for pointing out the discrepancies though? I'll just take the primer off as the same for the last 20 year's . I'm not dumping around into my deer bush that I hunt if I didn't see anything that day or evening.
Be careful leaving the powder in. I change mine day to day. Don't need my powder fizzing instead of boom when a buck steps out.
I got mine from RMC and have used it with my flinlock, caplock and inline and it has always worked for me YMMVQuote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
http://www.rmcsports.com/rmcsports_c...fm?section=420
Flames at last light are cool. LOL
HA
Thanks for all the replies guys, good to know what everyone does. Hope everyone has a good hunt this yr!
Could you please post a link to where you found that?Quote:
Originally Posted by DJB
Storing and transporting black powder firearms
As set out in regulations supporting the Firearms Act , individuals are required to store and transport all firearms, including antique firearms, safely to deter loss, theft and accidents. All firearms must be unloaded for storage and transportation.
Exception: Black powder muzzleloaders do not have to be unloaded when they are being transported between hunting si tes if their firing cap or flint has been removed
this is from the RCMP website.
Still leaving the door open..... My Ml is loaded with smokeless ?? Albeit it was designed for it. When I caught the mnr it took a lot of back and forth between pages then a few phone call's to the ministry . Same aplies here. I'm still seeing a grey area that they don't address??? I am willing to be wrong have before I just want to see clear wording that no one can try to interpret anything else . Haven't seen that yet!!
Information came from Brenda Koenig, Provincial Enforcement Specialist, Enforcement Branch of the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources on Nov. 25, 2013.
Ontario law from the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act - http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/Download/elaws statutes 97141 e.doc
Federal Firearms Act- http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/r.../FullText.html
These are the links that she sent me along with a two page letter stating the laws and explaining them. If you want it in writing, send her a question at [email protected]
I was at the local gun shop the other day and they were not aware of this as they were misinforming another hunter. If you were at hunt camp in a hunting area, you can legally leave the powder and bullet in but not if you drive home to a no hunting area.
The only requirement to store an antique firearm is that it is unloaded. Nothing more.Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter1
That link is rather vague and doesn't really deal with it. I'll try actually asking someone at the federal level as I do believe with a fair amount of certainty that a muzzleloader without cap, primer, or charged pan is not considered loaded. Part of that comes from the MNR saying you may transport a muzzleloader in this fashion. By saying that you may transport a muzzleloader without cap, primer or flint/priming, the MNR is essentially verifying that this is unloaded under federal law. They have no authority to override federal firearms law related to the transport of firearms. If it's considered unloaded for transport, it's unloaded for storage unless specific federal text says otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by DJB
This seems pretty clear to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactical870
- 10. (1) An individual may transport a non-restricted firearm only if
- (a) except in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, it is unloaded; and
- (b) in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, its firing cap or flint is removed.
“unloaded”, in respect of a firearm, means that any propellant, projectile or cartridge that can be discharged from the firearm is not contained in the breech or firing chamber of the firearm nor in the cartridge magazine attached to or inserted into the firearm.
With all due respect, you missed my point. Ontario has no jurisdiction in federal firearms law. Transporting a loaded firearm is illegal under federal law. If a muzzleloader can legally be transported with powder and bullet but no ignition source, then it cannot be considered loaded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wahoo
For those on the fence do as you may, I choose to unload mine in the field from my own safety standopoint. I know for certain if the is nothing in the barrel in my home, there is nothing coming out of the barrel in my home (except for a beam of light when I clean it).
A few year ago I was stopped by a co. I had my flintlock in a sock on the front seat with me, he asked if it was loaded and I told him that there was a charge in the breach but no powder in the pan. That was good enough for him.
I remove the breach plug and push the ball out with the ram rod.
If you reload/reuse a sabot and use a light you can see light around it, I blame it (my story) for missing a moose.Quote:
Originally Posted by DJB
Bogey63
All sabots for ml will not seal the bore and traces of light can be seen between sabot and bore. Only when the base cup of the sabot flares from developing pressure will it seal the bore. The load should be protected from water damage in rain and wet snow with a muzzle covering.
As for reusing an unfired sabot it can be orientated so the original rifling impressions are not used. Of course for the cost it is more prudent not to use a sabot that has been previously shoved into a bore.
Surprisingly there is more to know about muzzle loading than using a CF cartridge.
Ed