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Instead of increasing the price of licenses the MNR has created a new Special Fee.
New $2.00 Special Fee added for each fishing and hunting license, Outdoor Card and Draw Cards.
http://ontariofishingnetwork.com/201...fe-management/
Fish Safe and Often..
Poppa
This is nothing but a rip off,I read what they had to say,which was very little insofar as value for our dollars spent.And then they say that only 2/3rds goes to fishing.....were does the rest go ? And they're making seniors pay still....I'm not impressed with this lot...I was under the mistaken illusion that ALL of our money for licenses was going to....enforcement,restocking (yea right),education....where is the other 1/3rd going ? Come on let's hear what everyone has to say....it's OUR MONEY FOLKS
If the prices of licenses don't go up next year it will be the first time in a lot of years!Quote:
Originally Posted by Poppa
Nothing new in my opinion. The provincial government needs $$$$$$$. Easy money guys. The $2 goes to the special fund, but where does the rest of the license money go.
Mnr is one of the few
minisries that has income. When I worked there it all went to the minisrty of finance and was then allocated back though the budget process. There was talk of trying to keep the non-tax revenue streams but don't know if that ever happened. I saw some very large cheques from hydro for water usage at nuke plants and such. Also logging and mining rights, these dollars should go to the general coffers because these resources belong to the people. License fees logically should go back into the resource, but we are talking about government here!!
You buy a license and the mnr still treat ya like a criminal and will go at any length to fine you regardless. No more days of having a conversation with the mnr they are police now ans people fear them. This is not how it should be pretty disgusting behavior getting fed up with these guys
I found out today that they now don't send out renewal notices because it's to expensive. Lucky I caught it because mine expires in December
Administration would be the primary place, besides "boots in the field" and equipment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumperrr
As for the fee, I gladly pay it. All the stuff I spend money on in a given year, the $300 I spend on hunting and fishing licenses is the best money I spend.
I take it you're talking about the last line in that article?Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumperrr
Whoever wrote that did a poor job.Quote:
The Fish and Wildlife Special Purpose Account currently supports approximately two-thirds of fishing and hunting opportunities in Ontario.
What it should say is that 2/3 of the MNR Fish & Wildlife budget comes from the special purpose account and the other 1/3 comes from the public treasury.
Source: http://apps.mnr.gov.on.ca/public/fil...rod_110525.pdf - page 6
61% of the special purpose account revenue comes from resident hunting & fishing licenses
33% of the special purpose account revenue comes from non-resident hunting & fishing licenses
The remaining 7% revenue comes from commercial fishing, furs, fines, bait fishing & interest (page 4)
There's a lot of good information in that report. You'll see that there's a $7 million dollar shortfall in the budget and that this new fee structure will cover that shortfall. You'll see that the shortfall is due to a gradual reduction in the number of licenses sold over the past 10 years and you'll see that the reduction in the number of licenses sold is because the baby boomer generation doesn't need to buy them anymore.
Do I like the fees? No. Do I think they're necessary? Yes. If they're going to have that extra money though, they'd better print more regulations this year!! I think that's the thing that has bothered me the most the last two years.
It's $2 Measly dollars, lets not get into "the gov't this and the Gov't that" type of comments and complaints... I understand you cant make everyone happy, but it's $2.00 not your left knut....
What's the saying - "If you want to play, you have to pay" - We still own the greatest natural resources in the world and if an additional $2 ensures its conservation by whatever means I'll gladly pay it.
Actually the Ministry was bringing in enough money to self sufficient. Then the Liberals took some of that money because they thought it was to much. Now they want us to pay more because they spent the other money on something else not for the MNR. So the extra 2.00 is to replace what the Liberals stole not because were short money.
I don't mind paying to play but not when it is going into Liberal pockets because they cannot manage a budget.
So if they steal this 2.00 bucks and say they want another 5 bucks next year cause they cannot afford their lunches???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie Hastings
The mnr should bring everything back in house no more contracting out things they seem to contract out everything that makes money.
Keep voting in those GTA (ooops I mean Provincial) liberals. They are real smrt with the money....Are people aware that the smrt liberals have made a decision to run what I call, a structural deficit - meaning they are not proceeding with a temporary deficit that comes from stimulus spending, etc. They are knowingly, willingly, and deliberately just going further into debt all the time. Increased debt is simply part of their budget...part of their plan. That is their strategy. Smrt indeed. So, what else can you do except make people pay more for less....or pay more for absolutely nothing. keep voting liberal.........
This is interesting. In the Hunt Ontario pdf info sheet under fast facts heading they state:
"All revenue from sales of
hunting and fishing licences
in Ontario is used exclusively
for wildlife and fish management.
This is done by directing
all licence fees into a
special fund."
If some of the fees are indeed siphoned off for other uses then this is a blatant lie....
OMG this Liberal government has never lied have they? ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyTech
Talking politics, more specifically talking about the liberals, makes smoke come out of my ears...........somehow they got a massive majority????? oh well, we can either get pissed and try to hold our govt accountable or just become complacent and throw up our hands........Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Right it is only $2.. , but if they add$2 next year its $4... than$6... is the $2 fee per license fishing $2 small game $2 moose $2 deer $2 turkey $2 bear $2 elk draw $2 elk tag (if successful) $2 surplus deer tag $2...Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie Hastings
Personally I'm looking atleast $12 extra dollars next year... depending on surplus tags... amazing how quickly "only $2" ads up....
If you guys don't like the $2.00 surcharge quit hunting and fishing. Why is it ok to spend $2.00 three or four times a day at Timmies and not whine about it?
Well considering it is only needed because the Liberals want to line their pockets I see no need for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellyheader
I don't spend $2 at timmies a week... some of us make our own coffee... as i its getting to expensive to live. If you like the discharge why not pay for the people who can't afford the constant increase in life expenses? My bills have more than doubled in the last 2 years income has not. Hunting for me us a way to put food on my table. At the current rate I Will have to give it up soon. Not by choice, but by necessity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellyheader
Already uhh have to forgo 2 meals a day. Most days so my kids have enough... but hey... it's only another $2... $2 is a cartoorn of eggs.. that is breakfast for my kids for the week. When you get to start thinking about you have to give up to get something... than you can tell me "it's only $2" and yes I work full time. And temp on another job. My wife also works.
$2 here, $2 there.... I don't go to Tim Horton's more than 3-4 times in an entire year. He was a great hockey player though. You may be missing the point here....it's not about the dollar amount. It's about the fact that the dishonest, corrupt, and fiscally irresponsible provincial liberals have squandered all the $$$$ you and I give them. They have destroyed the manufacturing sector, destroyed the timbering/pulp and paper sector, caused power/utility prices to soar, and are doing their best to continue screwing things up. As a result of their poor governance, they need to generate funds somehow.....Sooner or later, it starts to add up. $2 here, $2 there...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellyheader
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellyheader
at least we get something for our money at timmies....
Hey man, I hear your situation, lots of people out there have to spend on whats important 1st and foremost.Quote:
Originally Posted by awbringl
Hunting and fishing are privileges, just like driving a car, healthcare, social assistance, owning a cell phone ect... these are privileges not rights, Canadians pay for these privileges and with the rising cost of everything else these days, I guess we can expect a rise in the cost to hunt or fish. Now I didn't vote liberal, but I'm not going to blame a political party that runs the largest province in Canada, where hunting and fishing are at the bottom of the totem pole...
The way I see it you are finding it hard to afford other things in life that are more important than H&F then perhaps you scale back of either of the 2. As we all know it's much more cheaper to buy meat and fish than it is to actually hunt or fish for them when you take into account the $$ spent on ATV's, Boats, rods/reels/guns ect....
Actually... hunting is a right.... and a Canadian tradition. Driving is a privilege... a ATV is a privilege. Me feeding my family wild game, is a right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie Hastings
It can be quit cost effective... You don't need thousands off dollars in gear... a shotgun can be had for around $100... a box off shells is around $12 what gets expensive is time off work.. and spending$100 on the newest reel.. You don't need that, and that it's a privilege
I'd pay $2.00 in a heartbeat if I'm getting it back from MNR in some fashion. However all I see is restricted travel and access, program cuts and fewer across the counter services.
Some people seem to spend a lot of time on here, how much is your internet bill? Right or privilege?:shades:
I would suggest that the government (all levels) must pay a dollar or two back for every dollar they waste. This money would come out of their own party money rather than our tax money. Each politician should be required to have "stupid idea or mistake" insurance paid by themselves and not by us. If their party wants to pay for it then let it come out of their party funds rather than our taxes. I think that their pensions should be put into a fund that can be "borrowed" like our pensions and other funds are, to pay for whatever the government spends our pension money on. It should also not be available to any politician until they reach the age of 65 and no early payouts except like most pensions, age plus years served. All our governments must be held accountable for our money.
Just my 2 cents.
Fish Safe and Often.
Poppa
I use 800 gigs a month (yes 800) streaming tv and a dozen devices in the house for the family. My bill is 50.00 bucks. Actually it has dropped the past few years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Sounds like a good idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poppa
WHAT?!?!?! Who do you use?
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
I use between 300-600 a month. I dont have cable and use the internet to stream TV and movies in HD. $50 a month is an amazing deal, im at $60 a month (60mbps down/10mbps up) with rogers only because i went through the office of the president for a complaint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie Hastings
Thats how I got my price at bell.
At one point for all my services Cell, internet, satelite (2nd largest pacage) and landline (unlimited in North america) I was getting for about 100.00 bucks. This lasted foe about 6 years before they discovered these discounts were suppose to be a 1 time thing and discovered they had set them at recurring. :).
Now when they pull up my name they won't give me the extreme discounts but I still got a decent bill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix
No cable or satellite here.. internet is used to Stream tv...
Cell phones paid for by companies... No options on lands lines.. basic.. so I pay $45 for internet.. and$20 for phone.. kids require internet for school. Projects are stored on the cloud now... so I really don't have a choice in that.. as local library is A 20 minute drive and only open on Saturdays.
As my family learns more and more to stream internet the satellite will go away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
Umm. I think you are missing what I'm saying, or not getting the point. As I previously noted, the $$ amount isn't the point. Sure it's only $2 and that's not too bad really....about the same as buying a coffee a day (for those that do that and don't seem to realize that you can make a pot of coffee a day for literally pennies :) ). My point is this: the Provincial Govt. is forcing us to pay. Yet, an audited final report has found that the cost to the Govt. of cancelling the gas plants in Oakville and Mississauga is $950 Million. That is $950 Million tax dollars that were flushed down the pooper and that will never be recovered. That is money that you and I have already paid and was absolutely disgustingly wasted....for what? A campaign promise. To get votes. Nothing more, nothing less. This is merely 1 example of the provincial libs screwing up the books. So I have a hard time giving someone a toonie who just wasted several hundred million $$$$. I don't like turning this into a political issue (this is supposed to be about fishing and hunting right?). But, in this situation, it's difficult to separate the issues.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie Hastings
Actually the Liberals have made something like energy the most expensive in all of North America. So bashing them about this 2.00 when they took the other monies to support Toronto is perfectly fair. What the Liberals need to do is learn not to screw up. Even they admit they are a bunch of screw ups. Problem is these screw ups have cost Ontario over 200 Billion will noting to show for it. Good example. Is if your wife tossed 20 grand out the door would that be a good use of your money?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie Hastings
Well to put it simply; Someone voted these clowns in... Did you vote? I didn't and I guess what, I'm paying for It to fish and hunt $2 more at a time. Nothing I can do now until the next election....
Toronto and surrounding areas primarily voted them in. Toronto should be given a special tax to pay for all over runs (200 Billion) since they have been in power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie Hastings
Agreed. That red bit down there should be ponying upQuote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
http://i1079.photobucket.com/albums/...ps461b7208.jpg
Than you have no right to complain. You had for say. Your choice was "meh I don't care"Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie Hastings
And I guess you're missing the point. They've steadily increased licence fees every single year for more than a decade. The price of a deer licence for example has gone up 26% since 2003.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie Hastings
Thats where most of the money goes even according to the Liberals themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowbanksArcher
Name anything in the past 10 years that has not gone up in price, anything....It is, and always was, where you live , but always, one person, one vote. If 50 thousand people from southern Ontario moved to your riding then they could- should, dictate what your riding does-says as well. Yes #'s count, that is democracy , they may be wrong ,but that the way we are governed. Folks on here are always saying that newbees, ie. city slickers move north and want to hug the trees , and change things. Yet... I hear constantly from those who live north " that it is my land and I can do what I want on it". It should be the same for all land owners, yes even new landowners . They own it so they can dictate what activities they want on it. You want to to hunt on the next property , then buy it before a tree hugger does, otherwise... it is my land.... go cut some more trees or develop some It software, and buy it ,money talks . 2$ is nothing, not even a coffee. Can't pony up 2$ then don't hunt, ( in our hunt camp some guys where complaining about the cost of hunting , but brought 2 cases of beer and 2 ,26ers for a week of hunting) and that has nothing to do with who is in power.
The price of energy in Ontario is the highest in North America. The primary reason is due to mismanagement by the Liberals and the green energy contracts (according to the Auditor General) where we pay 60 - 80 cents kwh and then sell it on the open market for 3 - 4 cents. Even you must admit it's pretty stupid to sell the energy at that kind of a lost.
So you believe the South should dictate how the North and East should live??
Funny how alot of TREE HUGGERS (which you seem to favor) also want to dictate how private land is managed and those tree huggers are often from the South. Maybe what the South should do first is learn to live within their means instead of expecting free money and daycare and free breakfast and lunches for their kid's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Ok so this year they'll hit us with a " Special Fee " and down the road they'll hit us with a "Special Special Fee" because of their incompetent bungling of our "donated" monies-well maybe not donated.
They are all liars and hypocrites. Why don't we have Wind turbines all around the GTA? They could line the Queensway with them just off shore from Oshawa to Niagara. This is where the energy is most needed right? It's easy to make life changing decisions for others if they have no effect on you. How would you like the sight of a turbine being forced onto the property next to you? Doesn't matter. The liberals bribe the public service unions and the unions are rich enough to buy every campaign. Get used to a steady decline in your standard of living and quality of life unless you work for the government. One entitled person once took it too far and made a stupid comment like "let them eat cake" I think it cost her her head. It won't come to that in these times but at some point trying to suck blood out of a dead horse will prove useless even for Liberals.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
The absolute vast majority of government workers are peons, blue collar, office type workers who suffer the same as any other workers in the private sector when it comes to increases in cost of living.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Who get annual increases, pensions, are virtually immune to layoffs and proven to be overpaid by @13%. I don't see how they suffer quite the same as the private sector. I have friends and family in both Federal and Provincial government. I have a pretty good picture of the differences.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
We have an off topic forum for political discussions.
The liberals boast we have the lowest program spending per capita in Cda.
Well when only .35 on the dollar goes to the actual services………because .65 goes to Interest, and wages.
Not all services or their employees live in luxury. A janitor in PS might be slightly better off than a janitor in private (17% in wages), but not all have DBPPs ( 76% of PS employee's do, so clearly a lot don't). So whether your a peon in private or a peon in PS, there are lots who feel the sting of exploding cost of living (Hydro, food, etc) and don't really have 2 nickels for themselves once 45% goes to taxes and another 40% to Housing, food, clothing……..
"One person, one vote"
Perhaps, but when the ridings in the city centers outnumber the ridings in Rurual Ont………..Maybe its time for electoral reform and better representation or balance, so that no party can win or stay in power simply by throwing lots of money at the GTA…
See gas plants, see 75mm for NoTL etc.
But also, when Unions (who represent such a small segment of the populace..less than 25%) are pulling the strings at Queens Park and have been since Bob Rae, who can afford to spend 11 billion to buy the LCBO, who can spend (no limits) boatloads of $$ campaigning for them….who get treated with kiddy gloves and get raises, and love while "the real world is taking it on the chin"...and on and on and on. Maybe its time they get kicked to the curb…...
In the past few months the Liberals have.
Raised fee's for many things now related to hunting and fishing.
Forced seniors (on fixed incomes, who are taking it on the chin vis a vie exploding Hydro, exploding Land taxes, healthcare cost, etc) to spend even more.
Without going after all the other users of the resources, who contribute diddly….
Or Without really trying to cut cost first…
$2.00
When all parties in power have the since the early 1990s…
Have gutted the MNRs budget, while at the same time expanded govt spending and revenue (taxation) big time
….
When many Provincial Parks are closing and so much more is getting deep sixed...
The MNRs budget has been going down, while spending everywhere else up up and up. Read this and weep
http://www.eco.on.ca/index.php?page=...less-with-less
We all should have a problem with it. Yeah its just a cup of coffee.
See the bigger picture imo.
Good post JBen.
To those who have posted earlier, about it's "only $2".
1. This Government has proven that it has the same fiscal responsibility as an alcoholic at the LCBO with a gold card.
2. We, the users have seen license fees go up for years, while the Liberal Government has cut programs ( stocking, education, etc).
This is no different than the environmental fees that are now levied, yet nothing get's realized. I ust bought a small LED TV over the weekend, and to my surprise, despite the $150 price, it came with a $12 environmental fee. This is a shameless cash grab, as anyone in the waste business will attest. All consumer electronics are recycled now, at a profit to whomever is collecting them.
It's not about the $2. It's about the fact that it is another fee, another drop in the bucket which contributes to a history of fiscal irresponsibility.
Oh, and to whomever posted that they didn't vote? Kindly excuse yourself from the discussion. Unless you participate in the process, your opinion is invalid.
[QUOTE=terrym;848005]Who get annual increases, pensions, are virtually immune to layoffs and proven to be overpaid by @13%. I don't see how they suffer quite the same as the private sector. I have friends and family in both Federal and Provincial government. I have a pretty good picture of the differences.[/QUOTE)
I don't know where you're getting your info. Just take MNR for example: Massive layoffs over the years. Programs gone to the private sector, Fire protection recycle gone private, Provincial parks closed, JR programs gone, timber management gone to private sector, tree planting gone, trapping management gone, fur sealing gone, F & W licence issuing gone private, fleet maintenance gone private, budget cuts--this just off the top of my head in just one government agency.
Where is this job security you're talking about in all this? I know of many government positions whose salaries are substantially lower than those in comparable positions in the private sector.
You can be sure other government agencies, municipal, provincial and federal are all going through the same cutbacks and job insecurities.
You can always hand pick a few upper management positions that have a good income and job perks but by far the vast majority of employees do not fit into your characterization.
Well, I did vote in the last election, and my opinion is we're getting what we voted for, and have been for a long time now. It isn't a secret that the McGuinty government's fiascos precede the gas plant controversy by many years and in many different ways, but we repeatedly voted him back in. Then, we voted his successor in on a blatant platform of "spend, spend, spend - vote for me"! I believe that democracy isn't perfect but better than the alternatives, so I have to accept the will of the majority of voters. But I don't have to like it. We're getting exactly what we asked for - more of the same. And they told us we would. Remember that the next time you vote.
See the off topic forum and the dozens, if not hundreds of threads
:)
Cherry picking the tree's (pardon the pun) serves no purpose. Can say Sawbill that those sentiments come from umbrella studies that look at the entire tree as opposed to this branch or that branch, and unearth findings such as
"PS" growing by 40% while "private" grew 11% 2003-2012---- or where from 2011-2012 private shrunk by 4% (jobs lost) compared to 0.8% of "PS". As they say, it's always the low hanging fruit (MNR and others) that gets chopped off first.
See also who gets love (the GTA and city centers) and who doesn't (Rural/Northern Ont)Quote:
Just take MNR for example: Massive layoffs over the years. Programs gone to the private sector, Fire protection recycle gone private, Provincial parks closed, JR programs gone, timber management gone to private sector, tree planting gone, trapping management gone, fur sealing gone, F & W licence issuing gone private, fleet maintenance gone private, budget cuts--this just off the top of my head in just one government agency. Where is this job security you're talking about in all this?
What I've pointed out is a cross section of the entire MNR mandate, not just a few select branches so to speak. The white elephant in the room is health care that has bloomed in recent decades to meet an aging population. Their costs are staggering and salaries of their respective trades can skew any hand picked statistics that suggest rampant government employee raises.
I won't even talk about teachers..........
/quite agree with you Sawbill, there are many branches that no one should be envious of.
But that's what I meant by "Cherry Picking". When we start to cherry pick, anyone reading who is on or was on a branch that has been heavily pruned, or one where lots of fertilizer has been applied, backs will get up.
You're right, and I have 4 hunters in this house so it x4Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
I have no idea where your getting your information about all Public Employees. My father has worked for the MNR for 26 years, he hasn't seen a pay raise in years. His head is also on the chopping block. They are laying off anyone with under 30 years seniority, tell my how they are living it easy. If he gets laid off and loses his pension and benefits. I guess that is all right with you because he works in the public sector and doesn't deserve any sort of retirement
The MNR is being singled out for a reason. They have traditionally been way over staffed for the mandate they have. many of the things they do can be transferred to the ministry of Environment. Important functions like enforcement have always been understaffed. My best friend and hunting partner is a CO with 25 years seniority so I have seen how they park trucks because of no gas money left yet I clearly remember buying licenses at regional offices like Aurora and seeing an abundance of slow moving and mostly redundant people behind the desk. I remember going in to buy a moose tag and there was a line up of hunters. Well the woman would take her pad of blank licenses and walk across the room and put it away in her cabinet after each transaction. It was surreal to watch. Every hunter there was wondering if there was a candid camera rolling to watch the dumbfounded looks on those waiting in line. She was purposely stretching out the process while there were 2 other women sitting there pretending to work. every now and then you would see them get out and walk around and not actually do anything except take a stroll to look busy. They could have processed the waiting hunters in a fraction of what they were deliberately doing. Now many of those offices are closing. Wonder why?
I have a hard time believing he will lose his pension. Some kind of settlement will be involved. If I get laid off there won't be a settlement other than legislated severance and as for the pension, well I don't have one from my employer and the last recession pretty well wiped out any fantasy of living anywhere close to my present standard of living. Will you feel sorry for me or feel the need to top up my retirement portfolio? Yet I should do that for you right? I think you won't find many who disagree with me except OPSEU members. I'm not saying most PS employees don't do an honest effort. What has been allowed to happen is a PS of too many people for the capacity of our economy. At some point the money runs out. In our case it already has and we are running deficits. If the economy heats up and interest rates rise the PS will in fact likely lose 100,000 positions through attrition and cutbacks because we won't be able to afford the increased cost of interest. Gee, I wonder who it was who predicted that but got kicked to the curb?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonkers
Funny. I regard the elephant in the room as being the staggering debt that the Liberals have saddled the people of Ontario with. 300 Billion and growing, with only the promise to get it balanced by 2017. So it will keep increasing each year.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
$300 Billion amounts to $50K owed on behalf of every person in this province.
If you think health care costs are skyrocketing, to service the $300 billion in debt, the province is spending $11 billion every year, this is the same amount of money being allocated for health care.
If I could be allowed to clear off my share and be exempted from income tax I would write the $50k cheque today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
As a tax payer I applaud as many services being transferred to the private sector as possible. The accumulating pension liability will prevent my kids from getting basic necessities we abuse and feel entitled to today. Tax payers aren't on the hook for staff to work 25 years and retire for 20 more on the tax dime. It's an outdated model we simply can't afford anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
Sure. The Wynne Government would sign off on that tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
....they would then proceed to levy a taxpayer surcharge / special fee on you for the rest of your days.......but hey....it wont be called a "tax" right?
Would you applaud the same scenario if it was your employer downsizing and contracting out your position and your job future and that of your family was not looking so rosy?
Everyone is a taxpayer, government workers too.
I get the distinct impression you are blaming only government for our present financial woes. Maybe unions in the private sector can foot some of the blame???
I might recommend people go back and read the link I included re the MNR/MOE. And how successive gov'ts have grown and grown big brother (size, cost, taxation/revenue) while gutting the MNR/MOE..aka robbing Peter (MNR/MOE) to pay Paul ( preferred favored children)….
The current state of the province, the economy /economics , PS and Unions, vote buying, catering to the big cities while ignoring rural/north, scandals and waste, and some really concerning looming problems like rising Interest rates, healthcare cost, seniors on fixed incomes without enough saved, an aging population, crumbling infrastructure, declining academic scores and our youth spending tens of thousands on post secondary Pedigrees, then taking jobs at McDs, and much more.
Fact's are there a number of elephants.
Best hashed out in the off topic forum
;)
The fallacy in that Sawbill, is that when Private Sector unions get greedy, the business folds (or moves somewhere more competitive if that is a viable/feasible option...which for some isn't and they just fold). Government agencies don't fold. Their legacy costs don't go away.
Well I don't see anyone saying that GM and Chrysler employees should receive their pay and or retirement. All sectors get government assistance. They are one of the main reasons were in this mess to begin with
That they received government money was wrong - I don't think that too many tax payers aside from those employed by the auto industry and their families think this was a good idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonkers
To say the bailout is one of the main reasons Ontario is in a mess is plain and simple false - the cost of the bailout was 13.7 billion $USD, of which 9B was paid by the feds. 4.7 billion is a drop in the bucket for Ontario - do I need to bring up the gas plants?
Or eHealth, or GEA, or the coming PANAM games.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
Shouldn't you be out looking employment rather than worrying about what GM pensioners are entitled to?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonkers
ROTFLMAO!! :joker::joker:
He can have one of my spare jobs. I have to many. Going to hang in there at least until Spring need to renovate the bathroom and fly the family to Regina for my daughter's wedding in the Summer.
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Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy
cost of government will kill the Canadian Economy if we don't start to curb them back into the real world soon
Overpayed,overholidayed,overpensioned,oversickdaye d,overstaffed, overbudgeted,overconventioned,overexpenseaccounted , overeverything
Too bad we all cannot have a government/municipal job - guess that's what Russia tried though aye ?
There's a lot of talk here about this political party..or that political party..it makes no difference who is in power..none of them are hunters or fishermen..they don't care about you or me..all they care about is being in power, and they will say whatever it takes to get there. They have Carte Blanche with our money and will do with it what ever they want. A $2 fee for a year..less than a dozen worms..lol.
Really? The conservative government made a promise to all firearms owners to get rid of the registry....and kept its promise. That doesn't sound like they don't care about you or me, actually it says they understood our frustrations, and did what was right.Quote:
Originally Posted by sizematters