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Hello all. I'm looking at picking up my first gun dog this spring and have decided on the Braque Francais. Does anyone have any information on the breed, has anyone ever hunted with one,does anyone in south ontario have one. I would love to see one in action.
Sorry can't help you out. Good Luck.
Picking an uncommon breed will probably mean you will have to go south of the border to find a pup. Don't let that discourage you. Do your research and find the right breeder and don't even consider the distance. It'll be worth it in the end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Gunner
Well , you got me reading up on the breed.
You best learn to speak French. :) There's a big club in Quebec.
Literature says it's different from the GSP but I haven't been able to see how yet.
http://www.gundogmag.com/breeds/bree...aque-francais/
https://www.google.ca/search?sourcei...raque+Francais
I've trained with one a couple of years ago and she was a fun little dog!
Check these links:
http://pointingdogblog.blogspot.ca/2...rt-one_11.html
http://pointingdogblog.blogspot.ca/2...rt-two_15.html
Lot in QC and northern NY.
Our NAVHDA chapter (Ottawa) has a few run in our August test each year. Also, Mtl and QC City chapters have many in their membership ranks.
To over generalize, the Braque Francais is very similar to a GSP in physical form and ability, although with a slightly more reserved temperament.
that's exactly what I am after jobber, the reserved temperament. I have been looking into the breed for roughly 2 year now, not to say that GSP cant have a reserved temperament I hunt with a really good friend quite often who had a GSP and she is fantastic and a wonderful temperament but I cant say that its a common with most, as well the BF is a much easier dog to train,especially for a newbie like myself(from what I have learned and read)Quote:
Originally Posted by jobbershunting
Here's another good link http://www.gundogmag.com/2010/09/23/...braque_082004/
how did the dog work when you did train with it?Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthLinkWeims
Thanks CassQuote:
Originally Posted by Cass
Its been a long go to find the right breed that meets my requirements then even harder to find a breeder, there are a few in Quebec but I have chosen 1 in Michigan, first its a closer drive for me from London(not to mention I can do some shopping along the way) but they(the breeder themselves) still hunt with there dogs, the few I spoke with in Quebec are either no longer breeding( Michel and Geneviève Gélinas) whom in fact was the first person to bring one to north america, we have emailed back and forth a few times, very nice man to take his time and answer some of my questions and the other breeder in Montreal herself does not hunt, so it only made scene to go with the Michigan breeder.
This is still new to me so i'm not 100% sure what expect.
Just a heads up for people looking for a dog from a particular breed. The only way to really tell if the breed is right for you is to spend some time around the breed and see the breed in action, preferably with someone who knows dogs. Don't believe everything you read on the internet or in magazines, especially Gundog. I cancelled my subscription a couple years ago because I found most articles about various breeds were written with very thick rose coloured glasses. As I learned more about dogs and saw more dogs in action I realized that Gundog magazine was nothing more than a bunch of pretty pictures.
A wise dog man once told me "Rare breeds are rare for a reason."
X2 well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakezilla
Jake's advice is spot on....especially his last statement.
You can put yourself on a slippery slope if your decision making process is based on some pictures/books that normally profess generalities to the nth degree and describe temperament as you have stated.
Consider getting out and talking to some dog people, observe their dogs, regardless if that's the breed you are after and see what exists. Then continue your search if you are breed specific; however, better see some individuals in the flesh and working. Forget the 'hero' shots that people tend to take all the time, they tell you very little.
Take a very close look at what you hunt, how you hunt, when you hunt and where you hunt in making a decision about the kind of dog that best fits your needs. You need to consider whether you will be training this animal or whether he will be sent out for training. Can you find a trainer, can you afford a trainer. Be prepared to continue to train because training is an ongoing process.
Good luck, I'm not trying to change your mind but rather put some questions in front of you so that you clearly think out your choice based on real criteria, not fiction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Gunner
What's a " more reserved temperament" than a GSP? I've had 2 GSPs. Just asking as I don't know what that exactly means.
It sounds like you are looking for the right GSP
Thanks for the advice. I will keep it in mind. But the whole "rare breeds are rare for a reason" thing I don't buy into. There are a lot of factors that make a breed rare. Cost, availability, ext. I would like to see responses from those who do in deed have a rare breed such as the pointing griffon, or the brocco Italian, or the poudelpointer. Just because a dog breed is uncommon in north America does not make it a bad breed. They are very common in Europe and around the world just not here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakezilla
Again Krakadawn thanks for the advice .Quote:
Originally Posted by krakadawn
So you know I have been hunting for 20 years and have hunted above many different breeds but for the most part they have always been GSP's , I have spent many summers in Italy hunting and being a field with dogs in Europe and have seen how these "RARE" breeds hunt, the whole "Rare breeds are rare for a reason" line kills me, what does that even mean. like I said earlier there are a lot of factors that make a breed rare and I'm sure cost would be a big one, labs, britts, GSP's,setters, there are thousands of breeders across north America so to the price is reasonable,it has to be there's a lot of competition, for the BF there are only 17 across north America so its a bit pricier for one, another factor is popularity, some breeds stuck and some didn't, for no other reason then then that, I know the BF are not a bad hunting breed they are extremely popular in Europe and south America.
There are so many different breeds of retrievers why is the lab so popular? It just is, for no other reason then just that, They all work just as well but only one could be the more popular. Any retrieving breed with the right trainer will be amazing. But most gravitate to the lab. Why?
As for temperament/training part yes I have been wanting a hunting dog since I started hunting 20 years ago when I use to hunt with an old family friend Paul and his champion GSP Bruno, I was at awe watching this beautiful dog work, this is not something I woke up to this morning and thought I want to get a dog,this has been 3 serious years of consideration and yes I have considered what I hunt and especially more HOW I hunt, and the BF fits the mold perfectly, as for temperament yes this dog is a bit calmer, slower moving, more responsive, and submissive, and they dont do well to harsh training methods witch is good i'm not into the e collars and ear twisting as I have seen many breeds subject to, the funny thing is I cant tell you how many people have told me be careful if you get a GSP as a first time gun dog owner they can be a bit stubborn and harder to train(I know everyone is going to have something to say about that but its true) they will take advantage of you if your not careful . Not to mention the exercise they require on a daily bases, I dont have a big yard or the time to be taking the dog on multiple walk's a day, the BF's are know for there mellow, almost lazy home life and are mid paced workaholic's in the field, and with this trait they are know for going all day, as well as being a bit smaller then the GSP in size witch is very good for me as well.
The temperament line really seem to get peoples attention, is it that strange to hear that different breeds have different temperaments and that one could almost be a bit more reserved, calm, not as energetic, slower paced?
As for training from what I gather being a newbie to owning my first gun dog the BF fits me perfect as they are very intelligent just as the GSP but minus the yelling and e collaring, and yes there is a trainer right here outside of london that I have spoken with that is quite excited to work with me and the dog and does have some experience with the BF and yes I can afford it.
I thank you all for input you have made my decision even easier. I guess I'm just one of those guys that wants to be different and I think that "rare" is a great thing,
I don't know much about much...but...think of rare breeds like trucks. Ford F150's are seen everywhere, are fairly cheap(er) then the rarer trucks like a Land Rover, Land cruiser, or a Mercedes 4x4. The latter does everything the F150's can do, but are more expensive, less common, harder to find......
I think if you want a solid dependable proven dog your choice are fairly simple....if you want to look outside of the box....your in the right direction.
I have a Pudelpointer, which suits me perfectly, not that a Brittany couldn't have done the same, at half the cost and minus the trip to Boise Idaho.
Just say'n
Don.
Just a note on this - hunting in Europe and in North America can vary greatly. Not only in the type of terrain/cover, but what we consider actual hunting. I do not own a rare breed per se, but one that is not very common here in Canada. English cockers are widely popular in the UK, surpassed only by springers and labs in numbers. Even in the trial world here, cockers are so few in numbers that they do not even run in their own trials - they must compete against springers. In the US they are becoming quite popular and do run their own trials. I never seen one run before I bought mine from a kennel in Ohio. Seemed like what i was looking for based on everything I read and watched - a small dog that could get into thick cover and push out birds. For the type of hunting I do he serves me just fine. He does have shortcomings though and I'm sure for some of the hunting I do or would like to do a more common breed like a lab or setter would have. For example for late season waterfowl I do not think he would be much good. Doesn't have the coat for it and he's only 40 lbs - breaking ice would be tough for the little guy. Also long outings are not real good so if you're looking for a dog to hunt all day, he's not it. He goes balls to the wall the entire time he hunts. Yesterday we hunted for 4 hours and that was way too long. At this point in the season his conditioning is great so he did not have any issues but realistically hunting for 2 hours should have been the max. My point - in the UK their "hunting" consists of driven shoots on land where they manage bird populations. So a dog is only hunting 20-30 minutes at a time and then there are other dogs that are used to retrieve shot game. Then they may do another "drive" for 20-30 minutes. It is not uncommon for a handler to have 2 or 3 dogs - whether they be spaniels, labs or a combination of both. I think most hunting breeds that are popular here, are popular because they fit the type of hunting we do, on the type of terrain we have, in the type of environmental conditions we have. Not trying to discourage you - I love my dog and for 95% of what I do he does the job. I even have plans to trial him. Jakezilla had great advice - try your hardest to see some work (and see them just in a normal living setting). They may not be exactly what you are looking for when you see them in action.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Gunner
Have you considered the Cesky Fousek?
BG...sounds like you've thought this through very well.....all the best at finding one and hope he turns out well for you. I always tell people a 'good' dog is a 'good' dog.
Just to offer some advice about training. Not sure where you saw 'harsh' methods but the ecollar can certainly be more humane than other responsive measures people use in training. Modern collars have infinite settings literally, they can be gentler than a swat to the rump if that's what is required. They offer so much in your ability to correct issues around safety or lack of effort on dog's part. Rex Carr, a retriever trainer is credited with the modern use of the ecollar, retriever training has evolved it's use such that most folks can pick up how to use it with the many printed or dvd material that is available. Twenty years ago this was not so available nor possible.
Clearly you have made up your mind on breed. My advice is if the Quebec breeders aren't producing hunting dogs but show dogs then avoid them altogether. I and a few other members here bought our dogs from the USA and the logistics of it are simple. If you can source a good hunting bloodline down there then I would buy there. My only criticism of rare breeds is that you have very little genetic choice in pedigrees. The very few owners likely use very few studs so most dogs are very closely related. If it's a solid bloodline the point may be moot but if there are problems then odds are you are buying them also. There is a reason why Labs, Setters and GSP's are so popular. Choice and proven pedigrees and track records. What you seem to require is a low energy easily trained dog. There are other breeds that are easier to train and bloodlines can make one pedigree seem completely different than the other of the same breed. You are of the opinion that Griffons and Pudelpointers are rare? Not so. In Ontario they are actually more popular than you think. I'm sure some members who own those breeds can chime in and give you experienced advice on thier dispositions and trainability. There is a member here who has a couple Small Munsterlanders who I have hunted with and that breed also sounds like it would suit you quite well, I would research them also.
X2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Gunner
Popularity is often based on many other things other than sound reasoning.
How absurd would you think someone was if everything they purchased in life was based on the rationale that "Hey, it is popular, so it must be the most effective, longest lasting, highest performing thing".
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoli 16ga.
Wow. Such excellent posts! A real good debate.
The problem with "rare breeds are rare for a reason" is that it ain't the breed so much as the breeding. I can find lousy Pointers, GSPs and Labs easily. Go to Fingal or Hullett and you'll find them, too. All dogs are not equally bred and obviously anyone can ruin a well bred dog with bad training.
I have a rare breed and she drives me nuts all summer in training, by not being more like a Springer. When October rolls around I realize I have exactly the dog I want. And no one can tell me that I'd change my mind if I saw what a well-bred spaniel can do. That's a long story so I'll leave it at that.
Great post.Quote:
Originally Posted by zoli 16ga.
It's not really a UK thing, although I agree their current hunting scene is silly, it's a trial thing. Someone remarked at a hunt test this summer re the improvement he'd seen in Cockers over twenty years -- by which he meant that the Cockers now ran more like Springers, flat out. Some dogs learn to adjust their pace, but some don't. As long as running flat-out is the accepted standard for a "quality" dog, we'll have dogs you can only hunt for a couple of hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cass
This doesn't seem to be restricted to spaniels. I can't count the number of people I run into out there who run the dog no more than an hour and a half and then say he's had enough. Whether that's the hunter's excuse for resting sore feet, I don't know.
Not sure I exactly understand what you are saying. Certainly in pointing breed trials the dog has to cover a lot of ground . Championships can be 3 hours long.Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
However, many of those same dogs hunt with their owner/handler all Fall and many make a trip out west for a week +-. They hunt all morning , have a lunch break , and hunt all afternoon. It's the conditioning that allows for that, otherwise..........
PS I went to some spaniel trials in NY once. The dogs certainly didn't run "flat out". :)
"As long as running flat-out is the accepted standard for a "quality" dog, we'll have dogs you can only hunt for a couple of hours.." quote Welsh
I assume you are talking particularly about spaniels?
Cass is talking about his Cocker and I'm suggesting that the problem of pace comes from trial standards, not the beating line where speed is irrelevant, so yes, I'm talking about spaniels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
I've never put a stopwatch to a spaniel trial but the time a dog runs in any given series is measured in minutes, not hours. The middle manager rule applies: if you have two dogs that are both getting the job done, the edge goes to the dog that looks like it's working harder. To be a champion the dog has to go hard. Whether you think the dogs are running "flat out" or not, you can't sustain that pace for long.
The dog will learn to slow down if it has to hunt for hours, and the risk is it will carry that lesson back to the trial environment. Some dogs learn to adapt, of course, and that's the ideal.
As far as other breeds go, as I said, I can only go by what I see in the field each fall. Lots of people done after an hour and half or two hours and saying they're saving the dog. Whether they're just covering for their own poor physical conditioning, I can't say. :)
A run in a spaniel trial is generally over within 10 minutes. The faster the dog, the quicker the finds, and shorter the run. When I give my dog the first cast of the day he looks like I lit his tail on fire. Dirt and gravel flies. It's like he can't get moving quick enough. Quite common in the spaniel trialing worldQuote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
Your right not to buy into the rare breed comment.My avatar a Dogo Argentino is a rare breed.It is also the most Highly bred dog in the dog world.Unfortunetly the dog snobs who lurk on this board and have No clue about the breed, have and still make comments about a lot of breeds, some can't even identify one breed from another.I would take their advice with more than a pinch of salt.Their replies to this post will be a good indicator to you of where they are coming from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Gunner
Most of the people I know that own rare breeds own them to be a rare breed owner, not necessarily to have the best bird dog and there is nothing wrong with that. This is a thread about bird dogs and if you don't buy into the "rare breeds are rare for a reason" comment, you probably need to get out and watch more bird dogs because if you do the truth of that statement will become evident.
Gilroy, the OP was requesting information about a specific breed as he/she were looking at that breed as a gun dog. I don't see that the 'dog snobs' as you say are trying to belittle any of the wide range of sporting dogs that exist. They like anyone have opinions about what they see and relate that to specific uses. I am clear in mind that there are breed specific talents and that before one jumps into any boat for a new dog, then better do some research and it should be firsthand to see if there is a match up with their personal needs.
I kinda like your guy, he isn't for me and what I do but I think that he is a neat breed and know you are proud of him. I don't see him lining up to get into the boat on a cold morning like today when one of mine was retrieving broad bills at day break....but that's OK.
I do think there are some folks here that have a fair bit of experience with a broader range of dogs but you're right about some and lurking on the internet. I think your final comment was trying to bait people somewhat. Perhaps a better approach would have been to start a new thread inviting people who have some of the less common breeds(notice I didn't say rare) post a bit about their individual, what he's good at, what's great about that breed and offer any other pertinent information like any outstanding individuals in competition etc. I'd post some of my young labs but they're pretty generic....just hard charging duck dogs who live to get birds in their mouth....even in a cold morning like today.
Make it a learning thread for everyone.
Cheers
Well said ! :) You should be a politician.
I hope I'm not on the "snob list" Gilroy. I'd rather be - like many others here - on the 50 years of gun dog experience list. When someone asks about getting a good BIRD dog , we try to give our best advice.
Yes rare breeds are rare for a reason - not ALWAYS a bad reason. Often has to do with geography as in the OP's case.
Inexperienced bird dog owners like the OP , will be seeking help. We like to recommend some type of
bird dog club help. If there's no club for his breed it may be a problem for him. Even spaniel owners struggle to get help in ON.
The lab is more popular because it is the F150 of the retriever breeds. good trainers cannot make good retrievers out of bad dogs. Your odds of getting a good lab are better than it is with other breeds, because there is more choice, of proven hunting talent When you choose a rare breed, your priority is not hunting talent, it is breed fancy. Plain & simple. Not that there is anything wrong with that.Quote:
There are so many different breeds of retrievers why is the lab so popular? It just is, for no other reason then just that, They all work just as well but only one could be the more popular. Any retrieving breed with the right trainer will be amazing. But most gravitate to the lab. Why?
"Breed Fancy" no its not breed francy and it's very much hunt talent. Like I said rare has a lot a lot to to do with popularity. The 150 is just the best bang for the buck there's better trucks out there they just cost more. This is a very common breed around the world just not in north amaerica.Quote:
Originally Posted by Labber
Which is why I would source a pup somewhere where that breed is popular. You will benefit from a superior gene pool. Breeding programs strive to improve the breed so being limited to a minute amount of breeders to choose from and using them repeatedly just to keep the breed alive or sell pups here means you get the same genetic characteristics unless they are using European stud dogs. You state that you have hunted over them and like the dogs but have you also hunted over enough of the other breeds to discount them? Again, as many have said a GSP is not just a GSP and the same can be said of all breeds. The individual traits of a bloodline are a huge factor. For example my Brittany is heavy to field trial breeding and has many champions in the pedigree. Well I have never seen another Britt charge as hard and move as fast as mine does and that was bred into that pedigree. Doesn't make him better or worse just a product of selective breeding. In the end the bigger the sampling you do will give you the best information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Gunner
Thanks terrym
I have considered this. They have imported new males and female's from France.
Look I'm not getting the BF to be different and make a statement I'm getting it from what I have researched this breed has all the things I am looking for in a hunting dog. Forget trials. This dog will never see atrial I have no disire to compete this dog. And speed is the last quality I am looking for aswell. I want to hunt the whole day so a slower breed will have that stamina. I'm not out to clear a bush as quick as I can I want to enjoy my time out there
One of the funnier comments I have read in a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakezilla
When you can show me an everyday pointer or retriever that is equally as effective in the grouse woods as it is in the December boat blind hunting late season mallards then I will give your comment some consideration. Until then, the 'popular' breeds are completely useless to me.
Please don't get me wrong here. I used the trial example to emphasize the differences in bloodlines. You sound like the type of buyer who needs to avoid a FT heavy pedigree. Given what you are looking for I think you should also look into the Visla. The ones I have seen are short range and slower moving dogs. That also gets you birds don't kid yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Gunner
I don't think pointers are bred to hunt ducks so I don't understand the point you are making?Quote:
Originally Posted by jobbershunting
Could not be more incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Labber
I chose a Wirehaired Pointing Griffon because I wanted a dog that had a natural retrieving ability, a very strong nose and a coat that would allow for later season waterfowl hunting, in addition to upland hunting. More importantly, I wanted a dog for waterfowl that was not a Labrador. I wanted a dog that would be calm in all situations, a dog that matured quickly and a dog that didn't shed, that is not a Labrador.
Are there aspects of waterfowling that my Griffon's can't compare to a Labrador's abilities, absolutely. The excellent ability of a Labrador to take hand signals and their marking ability are two skills that my dogs are not as strong in. Does that make them any less effective, in some instances yes but in most, absolutely not. I just have to handle my dogs like they are Wirehaired Pointing Griffons and not Labradors.
The conversation is on 'popular dogs' Terry. Jake owns pointers and his argument is they are better choice (among other 'popular breeds') for a reason. I am illustrating that his argument holds no weight because if I chose a 'popular breed' I would not be able to pursue the quarry of my choice with a 'popular dog' to the same level of success that I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Is that more clear?
I see what you are saying but I don't think you get his point. There are several breeds considered pointing breeds and used for the same games/purposes as an English pointer. None of them are more effective at finding birds quickly , covering ground and pinning down the bird for a shot. Nobody would choose an EP to hunt ducks. If I also hunted waterfowl I would not have chosen my Britt which is primarily a pointing breed. He will retieve ducks but can't sit still at all. Would be a disaster in a blind and couldn't handle the cold most likely. And really your dog isn't what I would consider an "unpopular" breed either. Actually quite common in Ontario so buying a good bloodline wouldn't be as big a challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by jobbershunting
They may be useless to you but they are pretty handy for lots of other people. By your statements you own a true versatile dog, it is adequate at many things and a specialist at none of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by jobbershunting
From the OP's breed choice I don't think late season waterfowling is in the cards so I am not sure what you are getting at.
For the people looking for an all day dog. Just because a dog is fast doesn't mean it can't go all day just like a dog with a slower pace doesn't mean it can go all day. There are a lot of other factors in play that make a dog an all day dog.
I would say go for it D.A.D.D since you have clearly done the research. Everyone on this forum has valid experience with many of the hunting breeds . Some clearly do not have a full understanding of what other breeds have to offer but that would be lack of interest on their part. I had a rare bloodline of Siberian Husky that i helped rebuild through a twenty year breeding program will full the cooperation of other breeders. If you have any questions please PM me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Gunner
Why is it that when a person requests some information on a breed they are researching, that we get posting attempting to make them reconsider their selection, sell them on the breed they have chosen, start a war on who dog is better at what.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Gunner
Possibly this site is not the place to ask for assistance, but it should be!
Congratulations to Big Gunner on doing some research, and looking for assistance.
At least he is not going to the classified section of a newspaper , and selecting a cross breed (IE Labadoodle) .
Gentlemen, we are all in the dog game together and have larger issues to be concerned on such as electric collars, tail docking and bird releases traps to be quibbling over who's breed is better.
Dick
Dick just for the record I have not been trying to dissuade the OP at all, in fact I agree that he's done some spade work in his search. I do agree that being in the same game...meaning we are sporting dog owners, then yes we should be concerned with larger issues at some point.
Would you like to elaborate on the three issues you have mentioned?
I would add to that with the overwhelmingly obvious assumption that since the OP may be new to the forum or their post count is not greater than 100 that they are not knowledgeable about the topic at hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDH
Couple problems, what is rare is different to many people. In Canada, there are from year-to-year no more than 25-30 litters of WPG produced and that may even be an over estimate. So in comparison to say Labrador litters, the WPG is rare but in comparison to Braque Francios, you are right they are not rare. So where does that leave us with the orignial statement of "rare dogs are rare for a reason", rare compared to what?Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
A "rare breed" may be "rare" because of what it is utilized for. Like you said, Jake runs pointers and pointers aren't traditionally used for waterfowl. I suspect Jake doesn't partake in a lot of waterfowling. Kraka runs Labradors which aren't traditionally used for pointing, and I would suspect Kraka doesn't spend much time pursuing woodcock with his Labradors either. So in this example, my WPG may be "rare for a reason" which is it's utility. However, this differs from how I interpreted the use of the "rare breeds are rare for a reason" by Jake in his initial post. Which in my mind was a slant towards "rare breeds" and their general abilities as bird dogs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakezilla
---- - --
As a setter owner now I'm getting tense. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
When it was told to me that's what was meant and in my experience it's true.Quote:
Originally Posted by jobbershunting
No one is trying to change the OP's mind, just trying to give some insight and possible pitfalls of a breed as rare as a BF.
Ignorance is blissful, ain't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakezilla
I watch upwards of 100 different bird dogs a year in competition and in training. Breeds I have watched in action, watched or judged in competition, hunted over and worked with in the past year are, English pointer, English setter, Llewelin setter, Vizsla, Weims, Brittany, Pudelpointer, German shorthair, German wirehair, Drathaar, Griffon, Gordon Setter. You watch and work with enough different breeds you see the pros and cons of them all.
You have a versatile breed. Pointers and setters are specialists at finding birds and they are just plain better at it.
Why would you make that assumption based on posting #'s?Quote:
Originally Posted by jobbershunting
My assumption would be that he might know more than most with a low contribution count.
Internet business indicates, good with computers, and not too busy training dogs.
Please Jobbers, resist the draw of forum snobbery.
I think TerryM is making ALOT of sense.
I must have made a grammar error. I was trying to say that we should not judge a OP by how little they may post or the fact that they are new to the forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Labber
I've never hunted with one, but glad to see you have put the time into selecting a good match for you. Is it possible for you to have a dog shipped from Europe?
You've lost the point of the conversation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakezilla
I've never had a shipped from Europe but have American friends who have.Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbelly
Deutsch Kurzhaar from Germany.
Not considered to be like our GSP .
Breeding is closely monitored by the breed club.
See the very bottom of this link for more info.
http://www.canamdk.org/about-deutsch-kurzhaar-club.php
Sorry Sharon, that was directed at the OP, just an attempt to get the thread back on target.
Sorry. I missed the "you" word. :) ( I was trying to do the same thing.)
Yes it is thunderbelly. But I wanted it to come from a breeder that I could drive to. I really want to see the parents in action. Meet the breeder see what there all about. I can't just trust in the the Internet and a website I have to see face to face before committing to a 10 to15 year dog.
To get this thread back on track and help the OP out, a good friend just passed some useful information on about one of the Quebec breeders called Michel Gelinas. Seems he was instrumental in importing the breed and produces true hunting dogs with great breeding. His kennel is called BraquePyrenees. If communicating with this guy is a problem let me know and I can translate for you I come from there myself.
Thanks terry. I know exactly who you are talking about. I mentioned him in one of my earlier posts in this thread. I have spoken with him via email a few times, he was the first person to introduce them into Canadian the mid 70's. He is the woodcock specialist and also used his dogs to pin wood's down so he could band them. Last I spoke to him (last year some time) he was no longer breeding.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
I understand the converstaion. My reply was in response to your comment on my supposed ignorance. I am just here trying to have some honest converstaions about dogs and help people with what I know to be true about bird dogs. Some people may not like what I have to say but that doesn't mean it isn't true. The truth is rarely popular especially when it challenges ones beliefs.Quote:
Originally Posted by jobbershunting
The OP has chosen his breed and I hope he gets the dog he is looking for.
Big Gunner. Once you get that pup I live close by and have pigeons if you need a hand with bird/gun introduction and general puppy development.
Thank you Jake.
I do appreciate all the advice good or bad. It good to cover all aspects. And yes there will always be a difference of opinion witch is fine. I'm sure the pointer vs flusher is another hard topic. ( pointer all the way lolol). For the most part people have been very supportive and have all offered to help so for this I am very grateful. I will keep you all posted on the puppy situation. I'm waiting to hear back from the breeder to see when I can go and see the parents work. Until then I will not give a deposit.