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Bought a weatherby vangaurd in .243 with a bushnell trophy scope love this set up and the rifle likes the hornady superformance loads so my question is this gun will be used mainly if coyotes are seen around are farms or may try calling some in this winter so what are you guys sighting in for or is it personal preference I was thinking 150 yards but not real sure on this
I don't know how long the biggest open space is, but that should work. You could also DOUBLE zero your rifle so that your bullet not only hits the Point of aim twice, but is never more then a few inches below the first Zero, or above the second Zero.Quote:
Originally Posted by jarret
I like 3/4 inch high at 200 yards 22.250 hand loads
most guys I know and hunt with like to shoot them in at 2 inches high at 100 for the 22 250 this puts you minute of yote head at 300 yards .if you get one that sits down and looks back at you .haha works for me .Dutch
Somewhere around 1" high will do at 100 yards.
If possible, Try some 300 yard shots. Different bullets will vary quite a bit at this distance I have noticed....
I have my .223 @ 100 yards, thats about the biggest open field I have on my hunting property so it works for me.
It will depend on what type and weight of the bullets. I use V-Max 60 gr. hollow points for varmint/predators zeroed at 200M and 100gr. PSP for Deer also at 200M. I find it easier to adjust the aim point than mess with scope zeros all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by jarret
Figure out your maximum point blank range and sight in accordingly. It would appear with a 90grn load out of a .243 your MPBR should be about 300 yards. To sight in this way would mean your POI would be about 2.5" high at 100 yards.
mines 1 inch high at hundred with the same ammo
Plug your exact info into a good ballistic program and see what it lists as the MPBR(maximum Point Blank Range) for your setup.
It may list for example, a MPBR of 300 yds with a 2" high at 100 yd zero. Set your zero at 2" high at 100 yds then confirm hits at 300 yds in order to true your dope and validate the ACTUAL Point Of Impact. Then while calling, if one hangs up anywhere from 300 yds in you can simply line up the cross hairs and click.
Wind drift determination is a whole 'nuther college degree........
Truth in disclosure.....I set zero dead on at 100 meters then I hold over or dial my come ups and or wind, mainly due to the scopes I use.
What works for you is the main consideration.
I just sight it in at 100 yards and practice 200 yard shots on different positions, anything farther than that is a bonus shot.
There used to be groundhogs around to sharpen your shooting.
With my 243 100gr bullets seem to be the most consistent.
Never heard of double zeroing what egzacly does this mean ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
All rifles essentially have a somewhat usable double zero when "zeroed" relatively close, as the line of sight and the bullet path intersect twice. For example at 50 yds and again at between 100-200 yds on .223@ 3000 FPS IIRC
This over arching principle is used in SWAT and Military tactics although not as a rifle double zero method.
Sight in for the most common distance shot you are most likely/consistently going to take....
Since almost all of my shots at coyotes come in at about 100 yds (+ - 20%) I sight in my .223 dead on at 100 yds....
If I do need to take a shot at a coyote that is out there... 200-250 yds or so... I just aim at the top of the back and if I do my part well.... the bullet should hit the coyote in the vitals....
Set up for your most likely shot but practice out to your furthest shot....
great thanks guys going to get it sighted this weekend farmer i work can hear the yotes from his house and has two small kids so time to take care of them
I sight in for 200 for coyotes. You don't have to be as accurate when guessing the range in the field. If you are a little bit off up or down in range you get the forgiveness of no more than a couple inches either direction for point of impact.
I used to sight in 1" to 1.5" high at 100 yards for all my rifles.
Now I go dead nuts at 100 yards. I like it much better, as the shots that I am supposed to make are in the 80 to 150 yard range, anything else and I hold slightly high on fur.
Like skypilot says basicly. The idea is that from the end of the barrel to a few yards beyond the second Zero all you have to do is hold the cross hairs on the target(coyote, deer, moose) and you will put the bullet in the vitials. This is because as the bullet leaves the barrel which is below the line of sight it has to rise to cross the line of sight at the first Zero point. The bullet now crosses the line of sight and rises a few inches above the line of sight till the effect of gravity stops it's rise and pulls it down towards the ground, crossing the line of sight a second time to give you your second Zero. The farther out you can move the first Zero and still get a rise above the line of sight that is "EQUAL" or "DOUBLE" the distance the bullet has to rise from the barrel to the line of sight, the greater your "point blank" range is.Quote:
Originally Posted by jarret
Hope that explains. If you have any question let me know.
Take skypilot's advice and use a good ballistics program to work out what your MPBR is and adjust accordingly. For myself I have found that for coyote hunting in the areas I hunt that setting up zero at 175 yds works well for my 22-250. It works out that for everything out to about 250 yds it is a simple point and shoot. I just put the cross hairs on the target and there is nothing to figure out...
Something to take into consideration when sighting in, is what bullet weight you are planning on using in your .243 .
For instance ,using 'Hornady'sBallistics", a 58 gr. vmax bullet with a 200 yard zero, at 100 yds. it is 0.8 inches high and5.0 inches low at 300 yds.
When going to an 95 gr. interlock, using the same 200yd. zero, it is 1.7 inches high at 100 yds. and is 7.5 inches low at 300 yds.
Depending on the shooters capabilities and condition/circumstances the differences at the longer range could very easily amount to a clear miss or a wounded coyote .
From experience, MEASURE the exact height of the center of the bore to the centerline of the optic for the ballistic program "sight height."
Then SHOOT at 200,300, etc. in order to validate YOUR rifle's drop data relative to the ballistic program drop data. Then generally(depends on program software) you can vary the muzzle velocity you enter and the relative drop vs the program's listed drop at varying distances in order to get the program data to MATCH your actual VALIDATED data. Now you have TRUED your dope and the drops will be exact for your different distances, WITH THAT RIFLE AND THAT LOAD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot
Yup the programs are nice....When I was learning to do it it was slide rulers and a lot of graph paper. Yes there where Calculators that could do the math faster but they cost a hundred of bucks at the time.
I bought a calculator for karen to do her radio course a few years ago and the type she needed was still almost 200 bucks.
Sounds like too much work and too hard....lol
They definitely cut down on the amount of math and the trial and error for most folk that don't have the opportunity to shoot frequently.
They are also an easy way to see how environmentals affect POI.
I agree Snowwalker, I advise folk to run the data, true their data and make a book or data card to place on the firearm or scope covers.
On the work/difficulty, it is somewhat time consuming initially however once is usually enough. Then it's simply double checking your original data routinely to verify how cleaning and throat/barrel wear/coppering affect your POI data.
Something we have to consider here when we give out all these suggestions on how/where to set our scopes , is that the majority of hunters [ not shooters ] are casual in their shooting , and are not reloaders that can tailor their ammo. to their needs.
Software and computer programs to them are meaningless as they buy whatever ammo is available to them at the time and where they purchase it .
Factory ammo from one manufacture to the next manufacture can vary considerably in velocity , also vary in velocity from one rifle to the next, this variance in velocity then affects point of impact.
We all know that factory published velocities are never exact , and unless you have access to an chronograph, you are just guessing at what YOUR PARTICULAR RIFLE PRODUCES IN VELOCITY FROM THAT PARTICULAR ROUND.
In some cases manufactures of ammo. use test barrels built to tolerances that are way above normal tolerances for most factory produced rifles available to hunters, a lot of these barrels are of 26 inches in length and the velocities from them are very rarely reached by most hunters rifles
My point here , is that for the majority of shooters , decide what weight of bullet you want to shoot , try that weight from a few different manufactures , see which shoot the tightest group, [ at this time never mind where it shoots on the target you just want the tightest /smallest group ] then go out and buy several boxes of that particular ammo , then sight your rifle in with that ammo to shoot at whatever distance you decide, either a 100 yd. zero or 200 yd. zero .
It's grade nine math....You did graduate Junior high right?Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
:silly:
Sterlok is free.. plug in the factory info then go sight in.
My 45grain .223 round says it is 3550 Fps... I just had to adjust the velocity in Sterlok to 3564 on the day I was shooting and the numbers and the real world matched up. Now when temp, elevation and stuff changes it gives me a very close match between numbers and real shooting.
I can carry the infomation for all my rifles and all the bullets I may shoot. Did you know that my Federal .22 ammo hits 1 mil-dot apart at 100 yards when I am switching between 36 grain 38 grain and 40 grain high velocity? Just knowing lets me switch quickly without having to resight the rifle.
Ah, it still seems like too much work/hard for me.... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
but this is something my buddy at work probably does... He spends a lot of time fine tuning his gear, he is into long range shooting.... I remember the first time I went target shooting with him, he told me he was going to setup the gong for us. He started walking and after like 10 minutes I thought WTF....where is this guy going,... it turns out he put out a 400 yd gong... At that distance he looked small and the gong was barely visible with the naked eye. I thought he was pulling my leg but no....first shot he hit it... now that was impressive...
For me a 200 yd shot seems far and is barely doing off my shooting sticks....so a 100yd zero and top of the back shot at 200-250yds max works for me... :)
I happen to have a Nikon Prostaff 5 on my 243 and this is the ballistics program I used to set up the scope. Works really well.
http://spoton.nikonsportoptics.com/s...n.html#Index:4
I shoot 58 grain. Hornady's. Out of my 243 I sighted it in for almost 2 inches high at 100 yards. It shoots almost 4000 feet per second. That screams like a hooker on pay day. I took a coyote at 320 yards. And works like Flint. Now i need a new stock, I had a oops a nice thumb hole stock will do the trick.
What barrel twist is yours if you don't mind. I have 2 .243s of my own that I'm working on fine tuning a handload for.
For most coyote hunting around here the shots are relatively close and if you plan on closer shots, zero it for 150 yards. With an 80 gr bullet this will put it around 0.5" high at 100 yards and 1.5" low at 200 yards.
If you plan on making longer shots regularly, zero it for 250 yards. The 80 gr bullet will only rise a maximum of 2.5" before 250 yards and drop about 3 - 3.5" at 300 yards.
In both cases you'll be able to aim dead on out to 300 yards and still get the yote.
If you have .243 Rem this may be of use...
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/243win/
My twist rate is 9.25 For a cheap gun it shot great. But I need a stock . less then a year old and the stock went of a permanent vacation.
A little work with the program, some time on the range..I mean who does not like time at the range.Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
Now when I am in the field it is point and shoot. No guessing for hold over/under.
Thanks, I have to find something for 1-10....Quote:
Originally Posted by OntHunter73
Which bullet. Or are you handloading those?Quote:
Originally Posted by OntHunter73
Care to share the load?Quote:
Originally Posted by OntHunter73
When did Hornady start making a Vmax hollow point?Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Hornady doesn't make V-Max hollow points. The hollow points are match grade bullets. Though Hornady does not recommend them for hunting I personally belief for small game it doesn't make much difference. A light 22 cal bullet will tumble once it enters the body of a coyote and should deliver a good humane kill with a decent sized wound channel. Certainly V-Max are better as they are frangible bullets but there are variances depending on what cartridge you are loading them into...
I might have the make wrong. I'll check the box.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerald
Probably Sierra 60gr hollow point.
This is what we are feeding my wife's Lady Hunter by Savage. A real nice shooting rifle and load with no kick. First Zero is about 63-67 Yards the second Zero is 175 Yards.
Slope angle, degrees: 0.0
Cartridge: UMC 45g JHP
Bullet weight, grains: 45.0
Bullet speed, f/s: 3550.0
at temperature, °F: 59.0
Temperature coefficient, %: 2.5
Ballistic coefficient (G1): 0.173Rifle: Savage Lady Hunter
Zero Distance, yards: 175.0
Scope height, inches: 2.0
Vert. click, MOA: 0.25
Hor. click, MOA: 0.25
Zeroing weather. DisabledWeather
Altitude, feet: 328.0
Temperature, °F: 58.0
Pressure, inHg: 29.18
Wind speed, mph: 0.0
Wind direction, degrees: 0.0
Distance, yards Bullet speed, f/s Energy, ft-lbf Vert. correction, inch Vert. correction, MOA Vert. correction, clicks Hor. correction, inch Hor. correction, MOA Hor. correction, clicks 0.0 3549.9 1259.1 2.00 0.00 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 10.0 3486.9 1214.8 1.61 15.28 61.1 0.0 0.0 0.0 20.0 3427.8 1174.0 1.22 5.87 23.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 30.0 3369.1 1134.2 0.91 2.82 11.3 0.0 0.0 0.0 40.0 3311.4 1095.6 0.59 1.37 5.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 50.0 3253.9 1057.9 0.31 0.57 2.3 0.0 0.0 0.0 60.0 3197.2 1021.4 0.04 0.08 0.3 0.0 0.0 0.0 70.0 3141.1 985.8 -0.16 -0.22 -0.9 0.0 0.0 0.0 80.0 3085.6 951.3 -0.35 -0.41 -1.6 0.0 0.0 0.0 90.0 3030.8 917.8 -0.47 -0.51 -2.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 100.0 2976.7 885.4 -0.59 -0.56 -2.2 0.0 0.0 0.0 110.0 2922.9 853.6 -0.63 -0.56 -2.2 0.0 0.0 0.0 120.0 2870.1 823.1 -0.67 -0.53 -2.1 0.0 0.0 0.0 130.0 2817.6 793.2 -0.67 -0.48 -1.9 0.0 0.0 0.0 140.0 2765.7 764.3 -0.59 -0.40 -1.6 0.0 0.0 0.0 150.0 2714.6 736.3 -0.47 -0.31 -1.2 0.0 0.0 0.0 160.0 2664.0 709.1 -0.31 -0.19 -0.8 0.0 0.0 0.0 170.0 2614.2 682.8 -0.12 -0.07 -0.3 0.0 0.0 0.0 180.0 2564.6 657.2 0.12 0.07 0.3 0.0 0.0 0.0 190.0 2516.1 632.5 0.43 0.22 0.9 0.0 0.0 0.0 200.0 2467.8 608.5 0.79 0.38 1.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 210.0 2420.3 585.3 1.22 0.56 2.2 0.0 0.0 0.0 220.0 2373.0 562.7 1.69 0.74 3.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 230.0 2326.8 540.9 2.24 0.93 3.7 0.0 0.0 0.0 240.0 2280.8 519.8 2.83 1.13 4.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 250.0 2235.6 499.4 3.50 1.35 5.4 0.0 0.0 0.0 260.0 2190.9 479.6 4.25 1.57 6.3 0.0 0.0 0.0 270.0 2146.7 460.4 5.08 1.80 7.2 0.0 0.0 0.0 280.0 2103.0 441.9 5.98 2.04 8.2 0.0 0.0 0.0 290.0 2060.0 424.0 6.93 2.28 9.1 0.0 0.0 0.0 300.0 2017.7 406.8 7.99 2.54 10.2 0.0 0.0 0.0 310.0 1975.7 390.0 9.13 2.81 11.2 0.0 0.0 0.0 320.0 1934.4 373.9 10.35 3.09 12.4 0.0 0.0 0.0 330.0 1893.4 358.2 11.65 3.37 13.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 340.0 1853.3 343.2 13.07 3.67 14.7 0.0 0.0 0.0
What cartridge is this data for, surely not for the 243 as was the OP post
It is a .223 UMC by Remington, but shows the idea of double Zeroing a rifle to give you as long of a "Point Blank Range" as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerald
After 230 yards you still only have to hold one Mil-dot high( 1 Mil-dot = 1"@100yards 2"@200yards 3"@300yards.) to put the bullet in the 4" kill zone for a Coyotes Vitals out to about 270 yards. 270 is longer then she will ever be shooting but it gives her some extra range for some thing between 230 and 270 IF she ever had to. With 460Ft/lbs of Energy at 270 yards it's still going to make a clean kill.
Just a correction so new guys don't get confused. A MIL-DOT is usually either .22 mil(US Army for an example) or .25 mil(US Marine Corp for an example)Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
1 Minute Of Angle= 1"@100 yds(1.047") and 1 milradian =3.53"@100yds or 3.6"@100yds.(depending on 1/6400th of a circle vs 1/6283 of a circle to determine a milradian)
We're both wrong. They're Federal 60gr. HP Varmint Special.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerald
Sorry about that trying to watch to many Irons in the fire...Supper, washing, dogs/cats need feed..etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot
I just kept typing mil-dot." ( 1 Mil-dot = 1"@100yards 2"@200yards 3"@300yards.) ":confused:
I did mean to say "1 MOA high( 1 MOA =1"@100yards 2"@200 yards 3"@300 yards."):thumbup:
My Reticle is MOA like this:
http://media.midwayusa.com/productim...t1/685/xlr.jpg
Snowwalker I had no doubt you knew what you meant. I have typed similar when crossing over from MOA to MRAD and even common stuff like Metric to Imp. and vice.
In fact, it's why it's a good idea to have turrets and reticles that have matching units of measure. MOA/MOA or MRAD/MRAD.
I like that reticle. similar to mine and I get about 850 meters out of my 10 mrad holdover. Looks like you could get about the same with 36 moa holdover with my round (a 308 and 165 gr GameKing.)
Still good to catch the mistakes quick...I would hate to have a NASA lander type event..Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot
Now why don't you take a few pages( 100 to 200 should be enough ) and explain the need to adjust for movement of the earth well the bullet is in flight...:joker::thumbup:
I would think that the "Eotvos Effect" would be the one to start with...The "Coriolis Effect" will take some time..
I still have to go back and look up the formulas, but then again I don't use them everyday any more.;)