Anyone see anything wrong with removing the deer seal to take pictures? As long as it's attached while it's being transported i'm ok right?
Printable View
Anyone see anything wrong with removing the deer seal to take pictures? As long as it's attached while it's being transported i'm ok right?
Do you mean after you get it home?
Seals must be applied immediately then remain affixed until the critter gets to your residence. To put one on then remove it temporarily for pics is against the spirit of the law.
It's ok with me, but not with the rules.
No not necessarily after i get it home, could be after I shoot it and tagged it and then want to take some nice pictures (without the big yellow seal). Or with the gang the following morning at the deer camp.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
I checked the laws and stuff and didnt see anywhere where it says that the seals need to remain affixed until i get it home, just while it is being transported. i figured if it's not being transported, I could take it off (as long as i put it back on while transporting it) I'm not too concerned with the "spirit of the law" but rather if this would be illegal or not.
My understanding of the law is that it needs to be remain affixed as long as the deer is in one piece (wording is carcass).
Definitely transporting it whole without a tag is a problem - see page 86 of the regs.
I don't think the CO would be okay with it if he found you with an untagged deer in your garage and a used/removed tag sitting on a shelf. I can't see him buying that.
If you really want the tag out of the picture, wrap your hand around it. I never really found that a tag ruined a hero shot though.
Its illegal. Seal must remain attached until such time as the carcass is prepared for consumption.
That only applies to wild turkey. If i'm wrong, can you please show where it says this applies to deer?Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
Go with what Sawbill says......you won't get a better answer here !Quote:
Originally Posted by Numpty
You were given an answer If you don't like it do your own research.Quote:
Originally Posted by Numpty
You come on here a newbie, asking how best to frame a "hero shot" for your facebook feed, and don't like the answer you've been given, then choose to argue the point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Numpty
Look up the word "numpty" as defined in the Canadian Army...you've chosen your name well young jedi.
Where did I say I was looking how to best frame a hero shot for my facebook feed? I was asking a simple question because i appreciate good photography and I dont want to be considered a "poacher" if i took a picture without a tag in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
I guess "newbies" aren't welcome here.
I decided to look it up and it's not illegal. The only requirement is that a seal remain attached while being TRANSPORTED. Ontario Regulation 665/98 section 17. I'm sure there are COs on this site who can perhaps tell us for certain.
I apologize for being a "newbie" and asking a question and seeking input. I was not trying to argue anything and i apologize if i offended anyone. Yes, i'm new to the board, but not to the woods and I dont think we should be judging people based the amount of posts they have"
NumptyQuote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Scottish usage:
a) Someone who (sometimes unwittingly) by speech or action demonstrates a lack of knowledge or misconception of a particular subject or situation to the amusement of others.
It's illegal. Technically you should tag it as soon as you walk up to it. I agree with SAWBILL>
Do you have a sticky tag or one of the fancy zip tie jobbies? If you are taking off one of the zip ties for a minute who is going to see you, if you are takin goff a sticky tag it will be alot harder to reattach. I mean come on it's off the animal for 30 seconds because the guy doen't want ot see it in a pic, who cares.
Ya know what. When I first read this post my initial reaction was, of course the tag must remain attached till prepared for consumption. I seem to remember reading this in the past. So I pulled out the regs and sure enough it only says immediately and while transporting so I can see the OPs reasoning here. Where I see a problem is with the peel and stick tags. You can not remove them for a picture then re attach them. The ones attached with a Zip Tie could be done. I would not nor would I suggest it to anyone. I would suggest you call a CO, here is one # for the Midhurst branch 1-705-435-0959.
If the idea was to tag the deer at the kill site, drag him out to say the field edge or some scenic place for a photo op, take the tag off for some pictures, re attach the tag and continue on to the hunt camp or butcher. The answer is definitely NO. But if it was attached and transported to the hunt camp then removed for the group shot before butchering, I don't know.
I remember having the discussion before. What happens if you take a nice buck, skin it and cape it out. You take the cape and horns to the Taxi, and the carcass to the butcher, where does the tag stay?...
Lets be civil here people..
Dan
Ask the CO, best bet for proper answer
Ya, the sticky back ties only go on and off once. That's another reason why the new zip-tie, shoelace, body hair, whatever you want to attach it with tags are brutal.Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter1
I don't think anybody here really cares if he takes his tag off for pictures, just trying to answer whether its legal or not.
I think once the deer is delivered to the butcher all that they need to retain is the tag#. That being said, your last sentence is the ultimate advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by DOS
In the F&W act it looks like the tag is only required for transporting.
But if you do a google search on F&G convictions you'll find a lot of "unlawful possession" convictions related to deer found without tags.
Here's one
http://www.baytoday.ca/content/news/details.asp?c=60336
That's not what anybody has said. You came on here looking for a way to possibly circumvent the law. Everyone on here has indicated that you shouldn't do. If you read the regulations it indicate that you must apply the tag immeaditilty after the kill. It does not state you can remove it to take a picture. Sure you can bend the rules and maybe get away with it. But if that is the case then why did you bother asking the question to begin with.
Nobody on here is going to give you false information that breaks the spirit of the law to do so could potentially put them in an awkward position should somebody be charged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numpty
You received your answer, then decided to argue the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Numpty
You then used the electronic box you're sitting in front of, and looked it up.......case closed.
There may very well be COs on here. If there are, they NEVER weigh in on these discussions, trust me, I've been in on more that a few. And a bevy of amateur lawyers that we tend to drum up with these discussion points never seem to agree.
Personally, if you're taking a pic right where you dropped it, and aren't moving it, then it's probably OK. But once you move it, you're technically transporting, and need the tag.
Sorry if I maybe flamed you a bit, it's been a long day. Welcome to the forums.
I think that this is one stupid rule, i believe some of these rules need to be updated to say the least. I do not believe anyone who is taking a picture of a deer that they shot has any intension of breaking the rules, they are not dragging it out of the bush or transporting it, should be of no alarm with the mnr. They need to rethink some laws that are antiquated to say the least. Now i feel better getting that off my chest. Just take the d-- picture.
So you have the game carcass somewhere between to kill site and the butcher table...What do you call it's status? Is it in storage? or is it in transportation.
I had a quick look at the regs. The way I read it is ..... you need to tag immediately at kill sight and tag remains on while transporting. I don't see anything in the reg that says the tag needs to stay on. If you were butchering at the end of the week, at the camps hanging pole, could you remove the tags as soon as they got there? I would never recommend this, but why can't you?
Well from the F&G act - it looks like that is okay. But I've had CO's in camp and played 20 questions with them, and I think you'd be in for a verrrrry long night and likely a trip back to the kill site if you were found with an untagged deer in camp - and you gave the explanation that you tagged it, then took the tag off at camp because you were done transporting it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ysyg
If you are going to try that - you'd better keep the removed tag around...but then again - there is no legal requirement for that either.
I go as far as throwing the tag in with the first bag of meat that goes into the bottom of the freezer. Certainly not required but its easy enough and its one last bag that I need to label.
I fully agree with you and would never try this or recommend it, Maybe it will get reviewed before the next regs are out. I think we all understand the intent behind the tagging process.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
That will get very expensive in a hurry !Quote:
Originally Posted by ysyg
I don't know if this is correct or not, but I have read about guys being charged for taking photos at the kill site before tagging. Apparently this violates the "immediately afix a tag" rule. If that is a violation, I for one will not takea chance by removing a tag for a photo op. If interpretation is grey why take the risk of trying to defend yourself in front of a judge? Some things just aren't worth the risk.
Ontario Regulation 665/98 which is the regulation made under the fish and wildlife conservation act states that:
17. (1) The holder of a licence who has killed a moose, deer, elk, bear, wild turkey, wolf or coyote shall,
(a) immediately after the kill and at the site of the kill attach the seal provided with or purchased for the licence or licence tag to the game wildlife in the manner indicated in the instructions that accompany the seal; and
(b) keep the seal attached to the game wildlife while it is being transported and, in the case of wild turkey, keep the seal attached to the wild turkey until it is prepared for consumption. O. Reg. 276/05, s. 1; O. Reg. 529/10, s. 2 (1); O. Reg. 48/11, s. 1.
The whole "immediately after" requirement was no doubt written before the advent of party hunting.
There are occasions where it's impossible to affix the tag "immediately" after a kill. In the case of moose hunting, it could take a half hour or more to get the tag holder to the kill site. Allowances are obviously allowed under those circumstances. The tagging and then removal.....not so much !!
You are totally correct Rick. It is the holder of the tag who must immediately affix the tag to the animal.
If you can remove the tag after affixing it, it was illegally attached to start with.(that is to assure no reuse of tag)
The ends of each of the adhesive sides should meet flush. That is properly sealed and ensures no way to reuse the tag. So to remove it and re attach it you'd have to cut it and reattach a cut(non valid) seal. A cut seal placed on a deer is not a properly sealed, legal deer anymore.
There have been charges for just such improper tagging.
Agree...but that's only the sticky seals you get if you buy over the phone. The seals you get from an issuer, are those Mickey mouse seals you have to provide a zip tie, string or in our case, some poor guy's boot lace .... LolQuote:
Originally Posted by skypilot
True Rick, I have had some of those(with zip tie) in the past. The last one was on a turkey tag if I remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
My last bull tag was one of those little seals. I caught crap from the CO because I only slit the date, time etc, on the tag, because there's no room to notch out the info without hitting two or more dates etc....guess he felt it necessary to complain about something ! A hearty "congratulations" would have been much better....but then I digress !!Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot
If you really think a tag ruins your pic, you should just give up hunting.... My bucks are all still wearing their tags..... Attachment 27701
Don't we need to keep it attached to the deer too, using this sentence leads me to believe that there is more to it than I thought...Quote:
Originally Posted by jmillett
(personally I wouldn't remove it until I cut it up at home but.............................)
Maybe clearer written language would help....
Just my opinion but if you are seen attaching a tag that was previously attached a CO will have good reason to suspect this tag was alredy on another animal. I too hate the tags in a picture so "my" way of doing it is to snap a few as the deer lays before touching it then notching my tag, setting it aside taking the bush pics I want then attaching the tag. If a CO wants to gripe so be it. I think most would understand. Im not recommending this as it still is not legal but its my way.
After reading the reg, I'm going to change my mind. If you don't need to transport it anymore you don't need a tag on it. Well, unless moving it a few feet means transporting! I would keep the tag on till it's cut up.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmillett
doesnt look right to me on a mounted head, imoQuote:
Originally Posted by Tactical870
Now, look at this handsome fella...lol
Nothing ugly looking about him....:cool:
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...a/IMG_0295.jpg
^^^^^ Looks like a beautiful deer to me.
Great picture impact
Nice deer, who's the old fella kneeling beside it?:joker:
nice buck and nicely tagged too, might need a measurement on blaze orange cover on vest. LOL
Way to go Claud.
Looks like a leupy scope mounted on a TC uh, uh ..........wait for it............ IMPACT lol
Where in here does it indicate in the OP that he is trying to circumvent the law. Looks to me like he has asked a question for clarification so as to not circumvent the law. Some people here need to take a deep breath.Quote:
Anyone see anything wrong with removing the deer seal to take pictures? As long as it's attached while it's being transported i'm ok right?
several seem to come to that conclusion when he indicated he didn't like their answers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redd foxx
Oh thats what those things are for Your supposed to attach them to the dead critter Hmmm I always thought they were emegency fire starter and the sticky part works best . I mean really .its a firestarter .lol
Not if they get wet..:)Quote:
Originally Posted by 400bigbear
Well there it is numpty! Welcome to hunt Ontario lol. You ask about regs and stuff on paper and you will get massive discussion from the internet gurus along with a little grief because you aren't in the clique. That my friend will take about 500-1000 posts of sucking up. Of course you can't accomplish that if your actually out doors enjoying and doing what this place is supposed to be about.
So when you get a guy ask questions about actual outdoor such as shed hunting he'll get a couple comments over three days and that's it. Ask about interpreting regs and dozens of will chime in within hours lol.
...but it is entertaining as heck by times so don't let the fellas with carpal tunnel bother you ha ha!
Lmao I try to remember to put mine in a ziplock bag before I go for my morning swim to my watch .Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
The point I was trying to make is that the tag seal is part of the hunt in Ontario. No need to remove it in order to accentuate the antlers. People agree and understand that it is mandatory and certainly would not diminish the look and impression of a massive 12 pointer or a small buck like mine. Every year I try to shoot a deer but am not always successful. But for each one that I do get, they are a trophy in my own mind and I proudly tag each and every one of them following the law established to protect the over harvest of this beautiful creature speaking of which I have noticed a dramatic decline in population as everyone else in the last few years.
So, in short, do not remove and try to re-apply the tag for any reason as you will get in "caca" with your local CO....:moose:
Was there not a post on here stating that if you wanted to post a photo you must have the affixed tag showing in the picture?
A picture of a harvested buck looks best with hunter, rifle and tagged deer. On the wall it looks best without tag. My opinion onlyQuote:
Originally Posted by impact
I realize you are joking but I was checked by a CO coming out of the bush opening day and he did indeed comment and thanked me for wearing blaze orange. He had no concerns. I know the vest is a little small but still meets the 400 sq inch requirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by ysyg
Ya, all good, just a little funQuote:
Originally Posted by impact
There is just no hiding anything from you, is there Randy.....lolQuote:
Originally Posted by skypilot
Yeah, I'm bored sitting in this stupid Montreal hotel room tonight!
If you don't like the look of a tag on the antlers for pictures, tag the ear instead. Turn the head a little for the pic and the tag might not be visible at all. Nothing illegal about it, no grey area to possibly get you into trouble.
Same for me oaknut.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
It take just a couple minutes to take some good pics, then the tag goes on.
There is often a difference between intent of law and letter of law, especially for hunting and fishing.
For all the guys who support the tag immediately regulation--- have you ever "party fished" ?
Early in your post a retired CO responded and you failed to accept his advice.
Iil add to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by johny
Drove over the speed limit?
Not wore a seatbelt?
Talked on the phone while driving as of late?
Taken a sip of coffee, same situation?
Driven with a known light out?
Forgot your blaze orange cap but hunted anyway?
Dyeppes foot on posted property, even unknowingly?
Etc.
Etc.
If the law is the law whats everyones issue?
YUP done everyone... i suport the tag thing on open forum cause if your stupid enough to take a picture with out a tag on it and show every Tom ,Dick and CO on the internet you get your fill... just like the guy that shot the massive bear on nov dec oodmag no tag and its piled up on rocks... yes take your picture of the deer bear or whatever with out a tag on it but dont post on a open fourm.. or you get what you may not like a huge fine.. and there is more to it than just not tagging ... its a 250 dollar fine for transporting a illeagle animal and some other fines and even confiscation of everthing involved in the animal from gun to trucksQuote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
So here is a scenario, what if the tag holder is 4km away by atv and while waiting for him to arrive I snap a few pics what then?? We are following all applicable laws?
EXACTLY !:goodstuff::)Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter1
Just plain old common sence, which appears to be lacking in a lot of posts.
That's great and shows common sense, however that wasn't the OP's question as posed. He asked about removing a tag after attachment.Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter1
I say do as you please for the picture but just keep in mind how a CO may see it. As I posted earlier, I know someone who was charged because the sticky halves didn't meet properly, giving the CO the impression an attempt would be made to use it again.
Some States I hunt in the US don't even use the antiquated tag. You simply kill a deer a day from Oct-Feb with varying maximums for total allowed for the year.
Some of these answers on here are the reason why people don't ask questions on here. He was asking for some clarification from people he would expect have more experience on the subject and some of you are people can't help a fellow member without twisting the question a hundred ways. Numpty, if you want a straight forward answer that may help you out in the future just PM me and I'll do my best to help you out.
Here is my question to you and lets see your straight answer Did you read all the posts in this thread ? He even got an answer from a retired CO and it wasn't good enough for him so you can well understand I'm sure of why things get a bit twisted at times Read every post .Quote:
Originally Posted by klums
Klums's he did get some straight answers at the beginning of this thread including from a retired CO. Not sure what more he was looking for. Seems to me he just wanted someone to say it was OK and to go ahead. From some of the comments others felt he was looking for the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by klums
Man for an old fella you beat me to the response. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 400bigbear
So those of us who have access to a PC during the day must be less of an outdoorsman than someone who lives in South River?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gern1980
Must suck posting replies via dial-up.....don't worry....I'll wait for your response tonight.......:D
The main purpose of tagging an animal is being able to confirm kill #s, and the WMU where taken.
I hunt in an area that is where 3 WMUs meet ( 56,57,and 60), I know the COs in that area are very diligent about making sure antlerless are tagged properly.
Yes I did and if you go to the start and read also maybe you can point out the response that the person identified themselves as a CO before certain members had to act the way they did. He referenced the rules as he read them and was looking for clarification.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 400bigbear
this is a forum for discussion. if he just wanted the answer ..... he can look it up!
Nope! as I see it while transporting tag attached . Now I butcher myself so once the animal is here ready to be processed That tag is off and tacked to the wall . And let the camera happen. In the field Take the pic's you want ? Skeeter mentioned what if tag holder is 4km away ? reg's say everyone has to hunt within 5 km of tag holder and be reliably in communication distance . So why not snap some pic's while your waiting? If your implying ? Taging then removing for the photo op then reapplying in the field ...Not a good idea / bad ! Besides that sticky tag doesn't come apart once stuck I find?Quote:
Originally Posted by Numpty
Been stopped multiple times coming home from moose hunting. Parts of the carcass I was carrying had no tags. However, all I needed to satisfy co's were the tag #'s and the individuals names on the tags.
A properly used tag that's been removed is a USED tag with dates to verify.
I don't think anyone is going to point out who the CO is. Some on here know but it would not be correct to identify him. Point is there were some appropriate comments to the OP and he clearly said he didn't like them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by klums
Yup nothing wrong with that take the photo's first. But once the tag has been attached do not remove until ready to process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exo200
Not sure how long you have been around but it is common knowledge who the retired CO is and one poster even basically pointed it out and why his response should be given much weight . Also Klums you do realize that these types of threads get started by students yearly just so us the guinea pigs ( ood membership ) help these students with their term paper . We are the study group being analyzed . Whether Numpty is one I don't know but it has that same old odor . This will occur again when the next semester starts . The Op started the thread He got quite a few answers but he did not want the answer but instead wanted to debate the interpretation of the law . And now here you come with your sword . Well get waving it all you want .Quote:
Originally Posted by klums
If it's a term paper he / she got their insight? Would certainly like to see his / Her final submission to their accredited school to their finding's ? As a read through the reg's would of helped them a lot ? But I know you need to show research !! So yes a nice tool we have for them here? Sort of suck's as I had to open a book or find the book to find answer's !!Quote:
Originally Posted by 400bigbear
Folks, how about we close this one while we're still friends? I think its been answered.