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Figured I'd post this in big game since that is what the question is pertaining to I would like to purchase a big game rifle for moose bear and possibly elk. Max range is probably 150 yds basically looking for pros and cons for both calibers or any other calibers that you guys use for big game thanks
Either one will work... I'm a 308 fan
The .308 was developed by the US military as an equivalent to the .30-06. They're almost identical in ballistics,so,take your pick. They're both excellent for hunting out to 300M. Military around the world still use them as sniper rounds out to 1KM.
This is kinda like the hunting truck post. Chevy, Ford, Dodge.
I like 308 as it has cheap factory loads to fire in a wider variety IMHO.
06 is a great round as well though and one day might add one especially if I find the time to reload.
Both will kill anything in this province.
Good to know didn't realize they where that close what other calibers do you guys like? Which one shoots flatter or are they very close
Flip a coin. They both shoot the exact same bullet within 100fps of each other. Within your specified range there is absolutely no difference and I have owned and used both. I prefer the .308 because it comes in shorter and handier rifles.
I use a 270 which is also good any place in Ontario for Yotes as some places have a restriction of .275 or less. I also shoot the 303 British.
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Originally Posted by jarret
My first suggestion. Buy a really big gun cabinet. There can't only be one! Firearms are like women's shoes. They like company!:joker:Quote:
Originally Posted by jarret
They get lonely very easily.
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Originally Posted by robster
They will kill anything in the Americas, North, Central, or South. They can handle anything in Europe and Asia. Only place it would have problems is Africa. For most available selection of factory ammo, and rifles the .308 does beat out the 30-06 by a hair, but if you reload then they are pretty much a tie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdiddi
True and in Africa they use spears instead .Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
TD
They are very close so the short action always wins on my book Dutch
Shooting a deer on the run, one will hit when the heart goes "lub" the other will hit when the heart goes "dub". With good placement, both will result in very dead deer. One has cheap (comparatively) ammo to practice with mind you which is why my choice is the .308
As others have stated they are very close. Take your pick. I am a .308 guy myself.
The .308 is still considered the most accurate round out there and although some would debate that the difference between the best .308 group and '06 group at 100 yards would be less than the thickness of a short and curly.
Well, I don't own a big game rifle right now, as I am very happy with the accuracy of one of my shotguns shooting slugs.
I did own a .307 for a decade and was quite happy with it, except for the ammo was expen$ive. All you could buy was the factory load 180 gr. and I drooled over the 30-06 and .308 ammo all the time!!!
The .307 is basically a "necked down" .308 with very similar behaviour. The .308 is quite similar to the 30-06 and the 30-06 itself is almost identical to the .270 - but don't take my word for it, Google, ask, research for yourself...
So, in conclusion, (after much research for the past couple of years) my own next rifle will be a .270 - which will allow me to shoot it in most places in Ontario and harvest animals from coyote to moose. :)
30-06 will give you an edge with heavier bullets for moose, elk and bear. 308 has less recoil and is suitable for short action rifles if you want something light weight and quick handling.
At 150m no game in Ontario will know the difference and trajectory is basically the same. 308 is usually a little bit cheaper to feed, and recoil is a little less. I own both and prefer the 308.
The difference is negligible at distances further then most hunters have any business shooting. There isnt a bear or moose in Ontario which could take a properly aimed 308 shot at 300m and live.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surf and Turf
I have killed moose and bears with both chamberings and performance is identical because they are the same bullet. In fact my experience in chrono testing 3006 factory ammo is they are routinely underloaded. This is done because there are thousands of old worn out military Springfields and the ammo lawyers don't want to get sued for blowing up old rifles. A moose is actually easier to kill than most think. I find they are like a truck tire. Put a hole in the balloon and they deflate. Bears aren't the dangerous beasts most like to make them out to be either. In fact most bears killed weigh pretty close to a whitetail buck. Within 200 yds there is no practical difference between the 2 chamberings. Spend more time choosing a rifle you like than obsessing over the diffetence in cartridges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surf and Turf
.
I have both and there's virtually no difference.
I have to put in a plug for my favourite cartridge though - the 6.5x55 Swedish (mine is in a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight). Next to no recoil, will kill anything from groundhogs to moose.
UNLESS, you are the one they are trying to chew on..:silly:Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
I know of a guy that shot four wolves stone dead with a .22. Just stood on his raised deck and shot them in the head from about 20-30 yards as they where growling and snarling at the dogs in his kennel. Nothing is scary when you know it can't get to you.:thumbup:
Don't get me wrong here, I have a healthy respect for bears. I once had to shoot one at about 18" from the muzzle of my rifle as it was trying to climb into my treestand to escape a sow that was kicking it's butt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
I think my first comment is truer then you think "UNLESS, you are the one they are trying to chew on..:silly:"Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Did ya get just a little pucker, or was it a good week before you could poop..:joker:
Pete. I'm sure that featherweight is lonely without another mod 70 beside it in the cabinet. Why don't you do te right thing and bring her over? She will look good beside my mod 70. 257. [emoji6]Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLakePete
I second the 6.5x55. I have an old husqvarna and love it. Easy to shoot and no recoil. But I also own a 308!
I have to put in a plug for my favourite cartridge though - the 6.5x55 Swedish (mine is in a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight). Next to no recoil, will kill anything from groundhogs to moose.[/QUOTE]
Ok so caliber is pretty well the same I'm looking at a vangaurd sportsman in wood stock just need some optics thinking a 3 x 9 should do the trick also I have a 243 for yote control
Next time your in town I have about 40 X 257 Roberts brass if you reload, good shape.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
I love my 300wsm and just put my 280rem. away for my son to use in the next few years.
My 300wsm is a Browning Xbolt hunter stainless. I have 130gr, 150gr, 160gr and 180gr.
Love this caliber. But ammunition is expensive. But I don't shoot all that much.
I'm a fan of the wsm's.
ROFLMFAO!! Now,that's funny,right there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
I am a 308 guy but find them just a little boring so I like to shot the 264win mag .she does a great job on moose and deer .I had to sell mine a few years ago family emergence so I am now looking for another one ,would love to find one in a per 64 model 70 westerner .keep me in mind if anybody see a good one ,still hard to beat a 308 pump or auto in the deer woods of Ontario .Dutch
Sounds like the OP has chosen a rifle. And yeah, .308 vs .30-06.....tomato, tomatto.
A 3-9 optic will do nicely. 3X is still good up close in the deep dark woods (doubters, try it with an unmounted scope at say, 15 feet in your yard.) and 9X will provide ample magnification for long shots. I do not personally like 50mm objectives, 40 mm is enough for me. I don't find the extra few percent of light-gathering power terribly meaningful. To get an optimum 7mm exit pupil, (objective lens dia. divided by power) a 40 mm scope must be set to 6X, and a 50 mm scope to 7X. Those settings will gather all available light.
I'd prefer a lower-mounted, handier scope than that extra 1X power, especially since I don't want to shoot a looooong way in dim conditions.
.30-06 Shoots heavier bullets (case capacity), and has the edge over 300 yds, can shoot loads faster if reloading.
.308 shorter case/shorter action (possibly) reportedly more accurate, reportedly less recoil.
All else equal.
Most people won't notice any difference...nor will their target.
FW
As others have stated - both are equally good choices. Took my moose and bear with the 308 this year.
Bringing back the 30.06 next year mostly to have the ability to shoot heavier bullets without losing as much FPS as the 308 due to case capacity. I will miss the short action of the 308 though...
There are so many great calibers to choose though....I would be looking at the 7mm offerings.
Is 7 mm larger then 308 I don't know a whole lot about rifles we mostly use shotguns since I'm in southern Ontario
7mm (.284) is smaller than .308. In MOST areas of southern Ontario,the largest caliber we can use is .270 (.275 to be exact),however,there's still one or two townships that still have the old "shotgun only" by-laws on their books.Quote:
Originally Posted by jarret
7MM, as in a 7mm mag is an excellent caliber. It has good energy out a long ways and does well if you aren't recoil shy and if you purchase optics with real good eye relief. Failure to do so almost guarantees a scope cut above the eye.
Hawk man made a good reminder for me. Might get 270 first then still set on 06. 270 can open some other areas if invited.
The US military developed the .308 to duplicate the .30-06 ballistics with the 150 grain bullet they were using. With that bullet weight, they are ballistic twins. As bullet weight increases, the extra powder capacity of the '06 rises to the top and the '06 can be loaded with 220 grain bullets, where the .308 cannot. For bullets up to 180 grains or so, it would be a toss up. .308 rifles will be slightly shorter and lighter than an '06, but I think the difference would be negligible. If you are hunting bigger stuff and want the heavier bullets, then the '06 is the way to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Since it was only touched on, I'll mention that the 8mm is the metric equivalent to the 308/30-06 It's usually only found in a 170 gr, when you can find it, so a bit heavier and slower, but makes an excellent bullet choice for hunting pretty much all big game out to 200 yds.
...but what makes it superior is that it's shot from guns using a Mauser blot action..far superior to anything made now a days :)
HOrnaday makes a 220gr and Spire bullet, mostly used for match ammo. Great weight for reachinging out. With the C3 sniper rifle (.308 Match Ammo)I used to shoot competition at 1000M and have shot up to 800M in Bosnia.
I personally prefer the 308. If you plan on joining a moose group, go with a 30/06 as you will find that to be the most common and you could borrow ammo in case you run short or forgot to pack which happens to people in a hurry. I don't own an 06 but have done enough test firing to feel that there is little difference. I also reload my 308's and have developed something to suit my 308's.
I would say 30.06 is the most popular out of the two for Ontario hunters. Both very common and very good cartridges. I have had both, Sold the 30.06 and kept the .308. Mostly because I have shot moose/deer/bear shot with my.308 and all 1 shot kills.I love the short action too.
My .22-250 and .308 in the same gun take the same magazine....Another bonus..
Just one other point to mention - get a rifle that is a popular caliber - that way you can more easily get ammo for it - the 06 and 308 are popular so you shouldn't have any problem getting ammo in the future - I use to hunt with a 06 years ago but as I got older I started using a .35 Rem lever action Marlin - I like the gun because it has less recoil and is somewhat lighter - most of my shots are 50 yards max because of where I hunt - the one problem I am now having is getting ammo for the .35 - it seems that this caliber is very popular here in Pa. and the ammo sells out very fast - the manufactures don't make it right now because of the inventory that exists in other states - I have enough for now but will have to make sure that I get some this summer when it shows up on the shelves again - I use the 200 gr Core-Lokt cartridges
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Originally Posted by GoldenLakePete
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarret
Due to the various attributes already cited, the .308 Win would be an excellent choice although there won't be a visible difference in terms of ballistics and performance at the distance you (OP) are planning to use the rifle. It would certainly be a bonus if you were to acquire the rifle with a scaled action for the shorter cartridge. Anyway, either calibre will suit your hunting scenarios just fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by jarret
Personally, I've never used a Weatherby rifle, however, it may be an excellent choice and many of my relatives preferred that brand for big game. The Vanguard S2 receives excellent reviews and I'm debating whether to try one myself in 7mm-08 since I already have a .308 in Mod 70.
Not sure if you (OP) are talking about 7mm Rem Mag or 7mm Mauser (7x57). As far as the former is concerned, it boils down to individual preference and need. Personally, I do not view 7mm Rem Mag as a hard requirement for hunting scenarios in ON. As already mentioned, your only true gain will be enhanced recoil and ammo cost when compared to the .308 Win.
The 6.5 Swedish Mauser and .275 Rigby (7mm Mauser) are two of my most favourite cartridges and I've used both to take big game in Asia (such as Sambhar, Gaur, Nilgai etc). The 7mm Mauser may be a great all round choice specially if you reload and you come across a quality rifle to match the chambering. Having said that, there are many other suitable calibres available in current production rifles that will perform equally well or better that the 7mm. I own a CZ550 in 6.5SE and am also on the look out for the right rifle in 7x57 although I do not reload. :)
30:06 and 3.08 aren't ballistics twins. 30:06 has about 10% more velocity than the 3:08. The 30:06 also has about twice the bullet selection. The advantage to the 3.08 is a slightly shorter action if you were to buy your guns in a semi automatic. Who really needs a semi in 30 cal anyways. Bullets are the same price. The 3.08 is to the 30:06 what the 30:06 is to the 300 winchester.
The 30:06 does have a much longer neck so if you reload, you have much more flexibility and options for seating depth, etc. I don't like short necks like the 3.08 for reloading if I have the option for a longer neck. The 3.08 is limited to about 180 grains at the top weight but with that it is pretty slow and not a great choice. The 30:06 has a lot more case capacity and neck length to go even up to 220 grain but more realistically 180-190.
Separately, someone mentioned a 0.275 bullet diameter limit and someone else said that allowed a 270. Sorry the actual diameter of a 270 is larger than 0.275.
RonGo - nice comparison.
Nice comparison, except the MNR does allow the 270 to fall under the .275 right or wrong. It has even been mentioned by the MNR in their old ask the CO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonGo
I like this comparison, on another note, the short action limit of the 308 and the case design is not ideal for heavier bullets. 220gr works in a 30-06, it is a problem in the 308, not that either is a shabby 30 cal by any means.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonGo
Remember when 30-06 and 303 were the only things you could find at the shop by the camp, now it is 308 and 270.
Both are great, both should be owned :)
Not many people actually use a 220gr bullet in a .30 cal. In fact the 180 is likely the most useful/popular for both the .30-06 and .308. The other thing is the .30-06 is notoriously under loaded by factories so the two are far closer in velocity than most would expect. At the distance the OP stated as his intended use there is no deer,bear,moose that would ever feel a difference. Worry more about selecting a rifle you prefer, the cambering is secondary if choosing between the .308 and .30--06.
Great advice. My personal preference is the short action.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
When I first shot the 180gr (what they carried at CT) I was applauded at how unnecessary it was for so much recoil to shoot deer at less than 200 yds....I dropped to 150 for the .303 and I'm very happy with that bullet . I will be reloading all my .303 with 150 gr Spitzer's. .Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
The minimal difference in recoil between the weights doesn't mean much to me, especially in a hunting rifle. The convenience of not switching up to a heavier bullet for moose has value. Deer don't care if hit by a 180 or 150 but a 180 is better choice on a moose. Your average duck gun has double the recoil of a hunting rifle and guys shoot hundreds of rounds in a season without thinking about it.
There are thousands of hunters who would disagree with that comment which is why the Remingtons, Browning semi autos are so popular. They also have the same receiver regardless of case length.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonGo
The recoil from the 220 grains is nasty. Worse than a .444.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
That's why I have a Zastava in .308.....Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
[QUOTcertainly seeebulldog;865455]That's why I have a Zastava in .308.....[/QUOTE]
They certainly seem like great value. Hard to beat a Mauser action. How are the triggers on the Zastavas?
My vote is for the .308. I own two of them.
If you troll through the threads, there were a number of reasons why I advocate for it.
1. Milsurp ammo is plentiful, so range days don't have to be terribly expensive.
2. Short action, more guns are chambered in it.
3. You can find ammo for it anywhere, the same can be said for 30-06 of course, it's just one of the criteria why I like the .308. If you are ever in the North, you can find a box of ammo ( usually mom and pop general stores have about 6 calibers .22LR, .303Brit, 30-06, .308, .270, and 12gauge.)
4. Ballistically it's identical to the 30-06 at least under 300M. It isn't offered in heavier bullets like 200grain+, but not necessary for any game on this continent.
Mine was a little stiff, but a little clean up and it's beauty. My Zastava has the mannlicher stock, and 21" barrel, it's a sweetheart.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
I was actually just thinking of trying a 444. Since I sold my 350 mag I feel like I have a big bore void in the vault....lol. do you use one?Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
Damn!!! That sounds sweet. Do they have the Mannlicher style in a Swede?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
They do in fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
And Trade Ex here in Canada stocks them.
http://www.tradeexcanada.com/content...-stock-65x55-1
Just checked the website, they do chamber it in the Swede! That is a nice setup. Website lists weight wt 3.5kg which is actually heavy. How much does yours really weigh?
I bought my first one in 1980 - still have it. I've bought two more since then - one is an XLR - my only scoped rifle. I used a .44 mag (1992-1993 - 1 buck), and a .30-30 (1994-1995 1 buck, 3 does) but aside from that, all my big game hunting since 1980 was done with a .444. I've also shot a lot of grouse with it using 2.5" .410 shells.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
The original round for it was a Remington 256 grain soft point - that bullet was designed specifically for the .444. Then Remington started loading .44mag designed 240 grains for it - they are very mushy. Just guessing on the years here - about 2000 or so, the 265 grain was discontinued - but I had a pretty good stash of them saved. Now Hornady markets both the 265 grain soft point and the 270 flex tip (lever-evolution). The FTX seems to blow apart easily - the buck I shot two years ago looked like he'd been hit by 3 buckshot - must have hit some brush on the way. The 265 grains don't blow apart....ever.
That seems a tad heavy, since it's 7.7lbs, I'm pretty sure mines around that or less with scope mounted. Then again, it doesn't seem to kick nearly as much as my Savage Axis in .308, so maybe the weight is accurate?Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
If you're near Orangeville, stop by, you can always have a look at mine first. I like Trade Ex because they stock a ton of Mausers.
Many times the balance of the gun makes more difference than the actual weight.
Just stating the differences, the bullet weight is one.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
30-06 standard seems to be 180gr, 308 standard is a toss up between 150gr and 165gr for the extra velocity.
Heavier bullets can get a longer boat tail on them and are better for matches as they buck the wind better and fly flatter with a better BC. That being said, I agree 100%, at 200 yards there is no difference.
At the range the OP is talking about any 30 cal is pretty much the same, 30-30 through 300 Win Mag will do about the same thing, some rounds just put more energy into the shooter and into the hill behind the deer, the deer is still as dead as a door knob.
150gr hits a little closer to center with the battle sights at 100 yards too, at least my reloads did.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
From what little experience I've had with a few Zastava CF and RF rifles .....Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
The Zastavas are quite close to the advertised mark as far as weight is concerned. The rifles are well balanced though. However, you may wish to check fit prior to a purchase if possible.....when shouldered, the monte carlo stock on my M70s felt a bit weird. The wrist was too thick as well. The bolt is usually somewhat rough in a new rifle and becomes smoother after some use. Trigger is adjustable, however, finish quality may vary from rifle to rifle. Trigger on one of my rifle was very smooth out of the box. Another mediocre. The third was very gritty. The later two became quite smooth after adjustment and use.
The same goes with the safety i.e. one may be smooth, another not so much out of the box. The iron sights, while good quality, are the same ones that Zastava provides on it's rimfire rifle. In other words, the rear sight notches (while ok for rifmfire use) are quite narrow from a perspective of CF rifle use. The finish of the stock as well as the inletting leaves quite a bit to be desired. Moreover, there may be a need to properly clear the barrel channel. Having said that, any recent inventory may not have such QC issues.
All of my rifles shot very well (had to properly free float couple of mine to optimize accuracy). I found that Zastavas perform excellent with Prvi ammo.
Weight perspective, for a rifle in Zastava's price range, the Tikka T3 in 6.5x55 will be far superior in every aspect if one were to ignore the plastic components in that rifle.
Wow some awsome points here guys making the decision a little bit harder
Just buy a .308.....you can buy a 30-06 to park beside it in the cabinet later LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by jarret
In fact, if you know anyone with a range membership, see if someone will let you shoot one of each. I will often let new shooters try out a gun for a few shots just to give them a bit of exposure.
Here are my recent .308 rds hand loaded, 180gr RN and BTSP. The 130's are yotes to try this year. I will not shoot over 150yds with my Model 100, WIN SEMI 308 and these can take down anything in Ontario at that distance.
Attachment 28205
I like my 30-06 but it's only advantage comes at longer ranges. With that the 308 is generally more accurate. Take BBD's advice, go with a 308. The only other advantage the 30-06 has is versatility of powders if you reload and even that is a narrow margin when considering the 308 has less recoil for the same load and rifle weight
I have owned several .308's and several .30-06's. I load every round I shoot in a centerfire and choose the .308 personally.
I have owned a Winchester 88 in 308 since 1968. Back then the cartridges to buy were made by CIL. To start, I bought 180 grain Sabre Tips and 200 grain Kling Core. Advertised muzzle velocity on the 180's was around 2700 fps and the 200's just around 1900 fps. The Sabre Tips fragmented easily but dropped deer in their tracks. The Kling Core's were used when walking heavy bush. I never shot game with them. Still have a few rounds left. I get better velocity reloading 30/30 with LeverEvolution and 170 grain FN's. This is my walk in the bush moose load. 308 with 180 grain NP for stand.