New Savage 10ML-II in the house

I finally have my brand-new savage 10ML-II in the house!!

Now I have lot's of time to get a good quality scope / mounts rings / powder / sabots & bullets.

I have alot of learning to do before I even attempt to start sighting it in.

Any tips to set me on correct smokeless path will be welcome....

My first impressions are that I think I am going to like it & it will be with me untill the end of my hunting days... LOL

http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps01316dfb.jpg

http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps250c451f.jpg

http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/z...psbf4c69f4.jpg

Jeff

Step 1 is to scrub that bore real good to remove the preservative coating. When you feel you have scrubbed it enough scrub it again one more time.

What I recommend you should get is a nickel based anti-seize grease for coating the threads on the breech plug and vent liner threads. It can be a little messy but you should never have a problem with seizing even if you don’t clean it for months after use.

You should always have a few extra vent liners on hand.

To measure the vent liner opening I use a torch tip cleaner and a Vernier to measure the largest tip that slides into the orifice opening.
Or some prefer small plug gauges but that is more expensive.

When mounting the front base-mount for the scope make sure it does not sit on top of any of the recoil lug. If it does make sure there is plenty of clearance between the two.

This should get you ready for shooting and finer points can be covered once you are ready.

Ed

They are great guns , you will enjoy hunting with them, there are a couple of other guys in our group looking for them after seeing how accurate mine is .:goodstuff:

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Originally Posted by ET1

What I recommend you should get is a nickel based anti-seize grease for coating the threads on the breech plug and vent liner threads.

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Hi Ed...is there a reason to recommend nickle based over copper based anti-seize ?

Mike Pal

I original used the recommended grease by Savage and had a vent liner seize on me.
After talking to a pipe-fitter who works on hot steam lines I asked him what he would recommend for an anti-seize compound. He recommended nickel based anti seize grease and never having any problems with it that’s all I used to this day.

As for copper based anti-seize compound I have never used it so I can’t vouch for it but imagine it might work well also. One of those things you have to try to find out.

Ed

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Originally Posted by ET1

Step 1 is to scrub that bore real good to remove the preservative coating. When you feel you have scrubbed it enough scrub it again one more time.

What I recommend you should get is a nickel based anti-seize grease for coating the threads on the breech plug and vent liner threads. It can be a little messy but you should never have a problem with seizing even if you don’t clean it for months after use.

You should always have a few extra vent liners on hand.

To measure the vent liner opening I use a torch tip cleaner and a Vernier to measure the largest tip that slides into the orifice opening.
Or some prefer small plug gauges but that is more expensive.

When mounting the front base-mount for the scope make sure it does not sit on top of any of the recoil lug. If it does make sure there is plenty of clearance between the two.

This should get you ready for shooting and finer points can be covered once you are ready.

Ed

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Thanks for the tips Ed they are much appreciated...

Jeff

Jeff

Nothing to thank as I would like to see you get started on the right footing.
If any info I provide is useful to you then that has its own reward to me.
Let us know as you progress to the shooting stage and I’m sure there are also others here who will chime in with more helpful hints.

I originally got a lot of help on another board when I first started SML about 10-years ago and now feel it’s my turn to help others where I can.

Ed

A quick google read of nickle vs copper didn't show a definitive reason other that nickle has a higher temp scale...2400+ (vs 2000) or if the applications is where you can't have copper contamination, which wouldn't apply for use with an ML.

I used to use the cooper on my plug threads but was having a problem with it binding and making it difficult to remove...opposite of anti-seize :)

I switched to a lithium paste this past fall, much happier..

I thought they stopped making these? where did you snag it?

He looked high and low and in every nook and cranny!

Darn near impossible to find!

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Originally Posted by Nismo

I thought they stopped making these? where did you snag it?

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Go to Gunbroker.com a handful of dealers stil have some new ones but the prices are cranking up.

Here is my story.

I found one on the above site. However the dealer made a typo & listed it as a Savage ML10. Most buyers will search for a Savage 10ML-II. The auction had no reserve & I got it for a decent price & I was the lone bidder. Sometimes you get lucky!!

One joker on that site was trying to get $1900.00 for the same gun I just bought. Good luck with that.

I really wanted the stainless & camo model but I am happy to get what I got.

The only kicker is they will not ship to Canada so I had it sent to an address in Detroit Michigan & went to pick it up. Declared it @ the border & paid the tax & showed my PAL. No problems but it burns my having to pay the taxes... Oh well that's life in Canada!!!!

Here is a link to a brand new one in the box & a few used ones.

http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx...ds=savage+10ML

Congrats on your new sml. You will love it. I absolutely love mine. We have a couple ml-11 in the family now.

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Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

Go to Gunbroker.com a handful of dealers stil have some new ones but the prices are cranking up.

Here is my story.

I found one on the above site. However the dealer made a typo & listed it as a Savage ML10. Most buyers will search for a Savage 10ML-II. The auction had no reserve & I got it for a decent price & I was the lone bidder. Sometimes you get lucky!!

One joker on that site was trying to get $1900.00 for the same gun I just bought. Good luck with that.

I really wanted the stainless & camo model but I am happy to get what I got.

The only kicker is they will not ship to Canada so I had it sent to an address in Detroit Michigan & went to pick it up. Declared it @ the border & paid the tax & showed my PAL. No problems but it burns my having to pay the taxes... Oh well that's life in Canada!!!!

Here is a link to a brand new one in the box & a few used ones.

http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx...ds=savage+10ML

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Interesting. I didn't realize you could actually import a firearm like that by just paying the sales tax, I thought it had to be shipped from a FFL dealer to a broker here. Good to know. You will love the Savage by the way. Not having to clean it everytime its fired is a wonderful thing never mind it's increased power.

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Originally Posted by terrym

Interesting. I didn't realize you could actually import a firearm like that by just paying the sales tax, I thought it had to be shipped from a FFL dealer to a broker here. Good to know. You will love the Savage by the way. Not having to clean it everytime its fired is a wonderful thing never mind it's increased power.

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No FFL required in Michigan. A Muzzleloader is not considered a firearm in Michigan. You can walk in to Basspro in Michigan & buy a Muzzleloader over the counter no questions asked... :)

One thing to be sure to check when you mount scope bases is to make sure the front screw isn't too long. I originally had two piece weaver bases installed from where I bought mine. Needless to say i couldn't get it to group because of this. I am now running a Warne picatinny rail which I bedded. Everything is solid now.

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Originally Posted by rippin_355

One thing to be sure to check when you mount scope bases is to make sure the front screw isn't too long. I originally had two piece weaver bases installed from where I bought mine. Needless to say i couldn't get it to group because of this. I am now running a Warne picatinny rail which I bedded. Everything is solid now.

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Another thing to check for when mounting scope bases (whether one piece or two piece) is that the base doesn't sit too high on the recoil lug, some bases extend slightly beyond the receiver and onto the recoil lug. A slight filing will allow the base to clear the lug is all that is needed. Likewise if the mounting screw is too long just file it to prevent it from bottoming out in the blind hole in the receiver.

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Originally Posted by smokeeter

Another thing to check for when mounting scope bases (whether one piece or two piece) is that the base doesn't sit too high on the recoil lug, some bases extend slightly beyond the receiver and onto the recoil lug. A slight filing will allow the base to clear the lug is all that is needed. Likewise if the mounting screw is too long just file it to prevent it from bottoming out in the blind hole in the receiver.

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ET1 mentioned that in a earlier post but yes I had to do that as well. Acutally the front hole isn't really blind, it goes right through. Its just that the barrel threads are right below it. The guy at the gun shop just cranked them down. Then I noticed a nice round gouge in the threads when I removed the barrel to do hand lap it.

Before you look for the quality accessories...... I would start with a quality rifle.

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Originally Posted by mr_pimms

Before you look for the quality accessories...... I would start with a quality rifle.

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What is that supposed to mean, a slam against the Savage 10ML -II?

Yep there is a reason why they are dirt cheap. Poor quality, fut, and finish. Absolute garbage.

Don't even know what an ML10 is do you?

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Originally Posted by mr_pimms

Yep there is a reason why they are dirt cheap. Poor quality, fut, and finish. Absolute garbage.

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I will take your 10ML ii-off your hands for a few peanuts.

Like you said they are pure junk & dirt cheap since you know so much about them you must own one... LOL

Truth be told I do know a fair bit about firearms. I have used savages, from the old school .303 Savage, to the .17HMR. Garbage, cheap, rough. Sell it and see if you can get your money back. Trust me....I know.

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Originally Posted by mr_pimms

Truth be told I do know a fair bit about firearms. I have used savages, from the old school .303 Savage, to the .17HMR. Garbage, cheap, rough. Sell it and see if you can get your money back. Trust me....I know.

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you must know a lot as these sell for close to and over 1000$ if you can find one ,crawl back in your hole .Dutch

Well, I can sell mine today for 30% more than I paid for it new. Geez maybe you can give me a tip or two about buying and selling firearms....

Clearly you paid too much, that's not my fault you don't know what's stuffs worth. Live and learn I guess. Good luck with your P.O.S firearm.

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Originally Posted by mr_pimms

Clearly you paid too much, that's not my fault you don't know what's stuffs worth. Live and learn I guess. Good luck with your P.O.S firearm.

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Always good to consult with an expert like you. What blackpowder gun do you recomend?

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Originally Posted by mr_pimms

Clearly you paid too much, that's not my fault you don't know what's stuffs worth. Live and learn I guess. Good luck with your P.O.S firearm.

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Welcome to the forum.

Hey boys lets just sell ours and pick up the cheapest CVAs! And Terry I need to apologize for earlier comments I made, I don't mean to be so offensive.

Didn't think dead animals would know if I spent $300 or $3000.

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Originally Posted by mr_pimms

Yep there is a reason why they are dirt cheap. Poor quality, fut, and finish. Absolute garbage.

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A small amount of knowledge on a particular topic can be so useless .

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Originally Posted by rippin_355

Hey boys lets just sell ours and pick up the cheapest CVAs! And Terry I need to apologize for earlier comments I made, I don't mean to be so offensive.

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Heck no I just jumped through hoops to get my Savage.

I wish I would have known they are pure junk before I bought it. I will keep my T/C omega now for a back-up beuase the Savage is sure to break on me when I need it the most... LOL

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Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

I wish I would have known they are pure junk before I bought it.

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I only mention it every chance I get

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Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

No FFL required in Michigan. A Muzzleloader is not considered a firearm in Michigan. You can walk in to Basspro in Michigan & buy a Muzzleloader over the counter no questions asked... :)

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Thats not just in Michigan. The U.S. federal firearms regulations don't recognize ML,s as firearms......lots of good ML deals to be had States side....

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Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

Heck no I just jumped through hoops to get my Savage.

I wish I would have known they are pure junk before I bought it. I will keep my T/C omega now for a back-up beuase the Savage is sure to break on me when I need it the most... LOL

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Yeah they are horrible. One I have will only put 3 shots into 1.25" at 200 yards. What an absolute POS!

Stupid thing should at least be able to shoot as well as those black powder - oh wait a sec, when we shoot out to 200 for some reason those other guns just get put away....

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Originally Posted by Big Jack

Yeah they are horrible. One I have will only put 3 shots into 1.25" at 200 yards. What an absolute POS!

Stupid thing should at least be able to shoot as well as those black powder - oh wait a sec, when we shoot out to 200 for some reason those other guns just get put away....

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LOL That sounds like a great gun to me....

I have yet to shoot mine. I will need something to do this summer & am looking forward to it...

Stock they will hold 3-4 inches at 200 yards. If you do your part it will hit the mark.

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Originally Posted by Big Jack

oh wait a sec, when we shoot out to 200 for some reason those other guns just get put away....

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HEY...I just posted a video in the ML section of a Baker gun shooting 200 yds !!!! ...LOL.

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I will need something to do this summer & am looking forward to it...

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These are a great summer past time but be cautious of the heat, allow ample cooling between shots if your expecting tight groups, at least 15 min. between shots. The heat plays havoc on the sabots.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

HEY...I just posted a video in the ML section of a Baker gun shooting 200 yds !!!! ...LOL.

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Originally Posted by Big Jack

Stock they will hold 3-4 inches at 200 yards. If you do your part it will hit the mark.

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Got me to thinking, I wonder how these smokeless ML's would do shooting a patch/ball. Anyone ever give it a try ?

Be interesting to see out to what range they can get a good grouping ?

I believe the twist rate may not be conducive to great accuracy with patch/ball?

I found an article by Chuck Hawks that tried using the patch and ball and found it had dismal results. Kudo's to him for at least trying and field testing the idea.

I see he had better results with the poly patches which I am using in my .45.

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A couple of friends more knowledgeable than I regarding muzzleloading rifles suggested starting with 40 grains of FFFg (black, Pyrodex, or Triple Seven) powder behind a .490" diameter Hornady patched ball (BC .070), so that is what I elected to do. Note that this is 40 grains from a volumetric black powder measure, not 40 grains as weighed on a powder scale.

Unfortunately, the initial shooting results at the range were disappointing. I fired a couple of 3-shot groups at 25 yards that ran about 6 1/2" and were all over the paper. The entire center was chewed out of recovered patches, even with the light powder charge. Recoil was practically non-existent, but so was accuracy.

I discontinued testing with patched round balls, deciding that the 1 turn in 24" twist of the Savage's barrel was probably not conducive to such loads. In addition, the pressure was not great enough to flatten the spent 209 primers and they had to be pried out of the 10ML-II's bolt face. This did not seem to be the load of choice in the 10ML-II.

I then tried the same Hornady round balls in Hornady's "Plastic Patches," which are really sabots for ball ammunition. Again I started with 40 grains of FFFg Triple Seven powder.

The first thing that I discovered with this load is that if the ball was seated in the Plastic Patch the combination could not be rammed down the barrel. I resorted to first ramming the Plastic Patch down against the powder, then dropping the ball down the barrel and ramming it into the plastic patch as best I could. I am certain that this method is not recommended, but I wanted to shoot at least a few of these loads, having invested in the Plastic Patches. As they say, don't try this at home.

The procedure worked, producing groups that averaged 1 11/16" at 25 yards. Recoil was light and accuracy was acceptable at 25 yards, but I didn't much like the double ramming operation. I found that if the rifle was dry fired on the spent 209 primer (just raise the bolt handle and close it again to recock the firing pin), the primer would then fall free of the bolt face when the rifle was inverted. This eliminated the stuck primer problem.

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reads more: http://www.chuckhawks.com/sav10ML-II.htm

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Originally Posted by smokeeter

These are a great summer past time but be cautious of the heat, allow ample cooling between shots if your expecting tight groups, at least 15 min. between shots. The heat plays havoc on the sabots.

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Only if You're smokeless in a savage. Other guns enjoy the heat

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Originally Posted by standup

Only if You're smokeless in a savage. Other guns enjoy the heat

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I found the same thing, with little heat, my BP barrel tightens up the grouping....

Same heat applied will do the same to any sabot regardless of the barrel it is shot in. Come on guys, laws of physics still apply if you shoot BP. If barrel temps are the same, effect on plastic doesn't change.

No magic here. Same as shooting shotgun sabots. Heat kills groups.

Maybe it's me that shoots better when I get warmed up, my best BP groupings seem to the last ones of the day...LOL....

Could be some guys groupings open up after all the wear and tear on the shoulder and have nothing to do with barrel temps :)

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Could be some guys groupings open up after all the wear and tear on the shoulder and have nothing to do with barrel temps :)

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Admittedly, there's a strong element of truth in that statement.

It could be that with bp the more fouled the barrel gets the better seal the sabot is making.

Bore Heat and bore fouling are two separate variables when shooting a muzzle-loader using sabots.

Bore fouling can affect accuracy and some muzzle-loaders like to be slightly fouled for better accuracy with sabots. My 10ML-II likes to be slightly fouled and after cleaning I will fire off a couple of primers followed with dry swabbing before I begin my actual shooting.

Bore heat will buildup in the bore with fairly quick consecutive shooting that in turn alters the physical characteristic of sabot performance. Heat softens the sabot and groups will suffer or shift from the result of this. This is why some of us who have experienced the affect of bore heat keep mentioning cooling time for heat dissipation. Another option is using an aluminum rod close to bore diameter to act as a heat sink to help shorten the cooling time between shots.

Consider this that when hunting, you are depending on that first cold bore shot to hit where you are aiming. If your accuracy is dependent on a warm bore as claimed how will you warm that bore up to make an accurate 1^st shot?


Ed

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Originally Posted by ET1

Consider this that when hunting, you are depending on that first cold bore shot to hit where you are aiming. If your accuracy is dependent on a warm bore as claimed how will you warm that bore up to make an accurate 1^st shot?
Ed

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Here's an example from last year ED...first shoot is cold barrel...next 3 in the bull...Consider Hunting, I don't think a deer would notice the difference...LOL.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps95051e03.jpg

Mike Pal

For close range work and if you can reproduce that accuracy off the bench maybe not so critical. Out of curiosity at what range did you shoot your target?


Ed

That was at 50yd Ed...getting ready for the ML hunt. My tree stand and ground blind have a limited distance in the bush of 75 yds, most deer are shot under 30yds. Hunting accuracy is the size of the heart, so an 1" isn't an issue. More than doable with pretty much any muzzle loader.

That was in a squeaky clean, cold barrel and my first shot of the day so pretty hard to identify which variable results in the 1st bullet to pull slightly to the left. It's consistent and easy to compensate for or adjust out with a scope for hunting.

A primary responsibly of a sabot is to create a gas seal, being that they are 'plastic' I would think that would do that better in a 'warm' barrel. It's never concerned me enough to prove it out on a bench rest test. Like I said I earlier, it may just be me warming up and getting more comfortable or the barrel becoming more fouled or the barrel heating up. But the groupings tighten up the longer I shoot and my shoulder holds out. Just proves the scope and rifle are aligned and zeroed, the gun likes the load and produces a tight group and because I practice enough to confirm that, I know what to expect when I'm out hunting.

Fifty yards won't tell you a whole lot with regard to barrel heating of the sabot.

I had a ten gauge semi that would produce a group much similar to the one you showed at fifty yards except for the flier and it was a smooth bore shooting plain Jane slugs. At 100 yards it was about a six inch group.

The sabot is what puts the spin on the bullet. If it gets warm it does a crap job. With a smokeless MZ you get more heat but you also get more speed and pressure so sabot failure can rear its ugly head.

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Originally Posted by Big Jack

and it was a smooth bore shooting plain Jane slugs. At 100 yards it was about a six inch group.

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Which is perfectly acceptable for Hunting with a 'slug' gun or ML for that matter....

Mike Pal

Thanks for your answer that puts a better perspective on the picture.
The range you’re working at compared to the range some of us are capable of shooting is a fair distance apart. The longer the range the more critical the care for loading components has to be taken into consideration especially the welfare of the sabot.

I can see where this discussion is headed with 2-different viewpoints and criteria’s.
We can’t force our idealism on each other but the reader now has 2-options to explore and find out for themselves what is the best.


Ed

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Originally Posted by ET1

I can see where this discussion is headed with 2-different viewpoints and criteria’s.
We can’t force our idealism on each other but the reader now has 2-options to explore and find out for themselves what is the best.

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That's always been the rub in these discussions Ed....your a benchrest shooter with a goal of tight accuracies and good groups at long ranges. And where the same mechanisms affecting the bullet ballistics are at play, the methodology for a hunter are quite different, as are the goals.

As you pointed out, it's the 1st shot that counts for the hunter and he's taking it while leaning against a tree, with elevated breathing, rapid pulse (excitement of the kill) at ranges normally in the sub 100 yd range. Add to that, it's Dec and he's shooting in below zero temps, wearing bulky cloths often in inclement weather.

Now I'm with you, thru per-season practice, the gun HAS to be ranged in and the load proven thru good groupings, hopefully sub 1" MOA's ..but realistically, there is little chance that performance will or needs to be translated during the above hunting scenario.

Most guys simple opt for centre of mass (double lung) 'sure' shot even before they'd aim for the smaller vitals shot, let alone the more challenging neck and head shots. Being an inch or two off because the barrel is cold is really a moot point when you have a 10" target.

I think you've mentioned before that your own 'hunting' experiences were less than 200 yds, and I believe that within the ML community that is the norm. There are lots of guys who don't even have scopes mounted on their ML's, simple no need for most of their hunting situations...it's essentially a slug gun and most guys still use their shotgun bead sights for them.

Some of us here don't even use sabots....it's patch and ball...within 6" of bull at 100 yds is damn fine shooting !!!!

Mike Pal

Just for clarification I’m not a bench rest shooter. My load research and practice time is at the range. Here I want to reduce accuracy error as much as possible.
In the field say at 100yds if I produce a group of 1” at the bench my groups with a shooting stick is now at least 2” and freehand my group is now at least 3”. Carry that out to 200yds and the values double.
So my philosophy is reducing accuracy error at the range with given yardages helps to reduce my accuracy error in the field. This allows me to then make the best possible humane kill which I strive for.

Your right about many things that I won’t dispute but the 10ml-II and many other muzzle-loaders do use plastic sabots and from my experience along with others know the effect of bore heat if it is not controlled when shooting at the range to determine the actual accuracy obtainable. You could walk right by your best load and not even know it.


Ed

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Which is perfectly acceptable for Hunting with a 'slug' gun or ML for that matter....

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At the range 6 inch group at 100 yards stinks.

I kept my shots to under 75 but nothing could walk away from the 766 grain slug! Not really into Hail Mary shots. Just my personal preference.

Whatever you do on the bench isn't what you'll do in the field.

My point was to sabot heating and sabots don't give a rats behind if it's black powder or a smokeless Mz.

Effect is the same....

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Originally Posted by Big Jack

Whatever you do on the bench isn't what you'll do in the field.

My point was to sabot heating and sabots don't give a rats behind if it's black powder or a smokeless Mz.

Effect is the same....

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And that was mine...worrying about group drift when your barrel gets hot is a 'range' issue...means nothing to a hunter..

"sabot heating and sabots" you'll have to acquaint me with that term ...:)

Jack, when do you decide when a barrel is warm, too warm or to hot Jack....is it arbitrary ?

How do you differentiate shooter fatigue in group drift from soft sabot group drift ?

Found an interesting article on the topic. Test shooting on a heated barrel and how it affects sabots....

Not quite the horror story I was expecting after all the fuss....but if your bench rest shooting it would be an issue I guess.

This was the results of rapid firing x 15 shots (1 to 1.5 minute between shots) in 94 degree heat...thru a barrel to hot to touch... POA was the thick black box at 100 yds.

read more: http://www.namlhunt.com/mltesting2.html



http://www.namlhunt.com/uploads/2/9/...61619_orig.jpg

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Originally Posted by MikePal

And that was mine...worrying about group drift when your barrel gets hot is a 'range' issue...means nothing to a hunter..

"sabot heating and sabots" you'll have to acquaint me with that term ...:)

Jack, when do you decide when a barrel is warm, too warm or to hot Jack....is it arbitrary ?

How do you differentiate shooter fatigue in group drift from soft sabot group drift ?

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Yes Mike grammar was off!

With Shotguns and MZ at range in fall I time 5 minutes between shots. In Summer give at least 10. I am not shy about buying shotgun Sabots and will spend about $200 - 400 in ammo alone looking for the best results for every slug gun I shoot. I shoot from a rest and tune the gun in. After that it is up to shooter ability. User fatigue doesn't come into the equation.

When sabots get hot the group opens up then you get to scrub the plastic crap out of the barrel!

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Found an interesting article on the topic. Test shooting on a heated barrel and how it affects sabots....

Not quite the horror story I was expecting after all the fuss....but if your bench rest shooting it would be an issue I guess.

This was the results of rapid firing x 15 shots (1 to 1.5 minute between shots) in 94 degree heat...thru a barrel to hot to touch... POA was the thick black box at 100 yds.

read more: http://www.namlhunt.com/mltesting2.html



http://www.namlhunt.com/uploads/2/9/...61619_orig.jpg

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That is about a 5 inch group. Not great.

Point of tuning in the gun to tightest group possible is if you need to reach out. I want predictability and shooting a standing deer at 200 yards with my mz would be perfectly acceptable to me.

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Originally Posted by Big Jack

Point of tuning in the gun to tightest group possible is if you need to reach out. I want predictability and shooting a standing deer at 200 yards with my mz would be perfectly acceptable to me.

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Keeping in mind, "tuning it" on a bench, beyond aligning the the scope axis to the bore axis, will result in a false sense of predictability...unless you take all your sandbags and sled out to your stand :)

Like Ed said, once you move to a set of sticks or freestanding the errors grow exponentially, you'll be lucky to hit 5" of bull at 200yd..especially;

"while leaning against a tree, with elevated breathing, rapid pulse (excitement of the kill) at ranges normally in the sub 100 yd range. Add to that, it's Dec and he's shooting in below zero temps, wearing bulky cloths often in inclement weather".

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Keeping in mind, "tuning it" on a bench, beyond aligning the the scope axis to the bore axis, will result in a false sense of predictability...unless you take all your sandbags and sled out to your stand

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The point of tuning it is , is to find the best combination for your gun and to find out what it is capable of removing as much human error as possible on the bench.
Once that is done , the rest is up to the shooter and his/her capabilities using whatever is available to steady the shot, and of course we all know this will never get the same results as shooting of a bench using a rest and sandbags, but we strive to do the best under actual hunting conditions when the crucial moment comes .

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Keeping in mind, "tuning it" on a bench, beyond aligning the the scope axis to the bore axis, will result in a false sense of predictability...unless you take all your sandbags and sled out to your stand :)

Like Ed said, once you move to a set of sticks or freestanding the errors grow exponentially, you'll be lucky to hit 5" of bull at 200yd..especially;

"while leaning against a tree, with elevated breathing, rapid pulse (excitement of the kill) at ranges normally in the sub 100 yd range. Add to that, it's Dec and he's shooting in below zero temps, wearing bulky cloths often in inclement weather".

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Mike I practice freehand to 100 and use either a tripod or shooting rail/lean beyond that. Last year I took a yote at 132 yards with my savage 220 without an issue and another running freehand at just over 70. Also took a slow running deer at just over the 100 yard Mark with my savage 10ml with a lean. Laser ranged all. They dropped on the spot.

I was humbled a while ago with my offhand ability and decided to fix that problem. For yote practice its off tripod stick or bipod and we practice to 300. We expect under 3 -4 inch groups at 300 with a bipod. That takes practice and good ammo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaycee

The point of tuning it is , is to find the best combination for your gun and to find out what it is capable of removing as much human error as possible on the bench.
Once that is done , the rest is up to the shooter and his/her capabilities using whatever is available to steady the shot, and of course we all know this will never get the same results as shooting of a bench using a rest and sandbags, but we strive to do the best under actual hunting conditions when the crucial moment comes .

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Well said. If the gun is predictable the rest is up to you!

I'm a man of few words and even poorer typing skills but here goes.

GOD SAVAGE ML'S ARE JUNK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From their flimsy synthetic right up to their 50 pound laminate. Let's not forget their horrid to disassemble and lose POI with each disassembley when all break actions do not. Then OH, how much wear on your vent liner? Are you bumping the charge. All bull. A 200$ break action of any type makes a savage look tired. Did more than my tour of duty with em. Still got some of the stupid special tools req'd, not req'd by others. He!! I can strip to bore my CVA by hand. Not a savage. They've faded away conciderably. They'll soon go the way of all the new so called improvements. Look at how many cartridges have came on with hype in the last decade and died as fast. Where's the 7RUM ? Exactly. Randy Fakeman did a lot to bolster the savage ML which probably lead to it existing far longer than it should have, but. Even it is fading away

Your Einstein quote I find kind of funny. You fall into the stupidity part because you keep repeating yourself and clearly have no limit!

Why disassemble a Savage to clean it? Can you shoot smokeless powder in your break action Spanish steel gun? I can sell mine for 30% more than I paid brand new in probably less than an hour, can you? Vent liners are cheap and take less than 5 minutes to switch. The triggers on those Spanish break actions are complete garbage, my Accutrigger breaks like glass. I have done the breakaction gun thing and will never go back. We kill moose cleanly out 200yds with our smokeless Savages, wouldn't do that with BP or synthetics. And my gun groups 1.5" like clockwork at 100yds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by terrym

Why disassemble a Savage to clean it? Can you shoot smokeless powder in your break action Spanish steel gun? I can sell mine for 30% more than I paid brand new in probably less than an hour, can you? Vent liners are cheap and take less than 5 minutes to switch. The triggers on those Spanish break actions are complete garbage, my Accutrigger breaks like glass. I have done the breakaction gun thing and will never go back. We kill moose cleanly out 200yds with our smokeless Savages, wouldn't do that with BP or synthetics. And my gun groups 1.5" like clockwork at 100yds.

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Why can You sell Your savage so easy?

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Originally Posted by rippin_355

Your Einstein quote I find kind of funny. You fall into the stupidity part because you keep repeating yourself and clearly have no limit!

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Well that sure was reported to admin now wasn't it

Standup

Thanks for revealing what you believe you know about the 10ML-II which doesn’t appear to be that much. Yes everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Guy’s all I see is someone wanting to build a fire for some attention.
Don’t feed the fire by responding and it will eventually fizzle out.

Ed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by terrym

Why disassemble a Savage to clean it? Can you shoot smokeless powder in your break action Spanish steel gun? I can sell mine for 30% more than I paid brand new in probably less than an hour, can you? Vent liners are cheap and take less than 5 minutes to switch. The triggers on those Spanish break actions are complete garbage, my Accutrigger breaks like glass. I have done the breakaction gun thing and will never go back. We kill moose cleanly out 200yds with our smokeless Savages, wouldn't do that with BP or synthetics. And my gun groups 1.5" like clockwork at 100yds.

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Exactly


In my area we are able to use shotgun and MZ only - no rifles.

There is no comparison between break opens and a savage.

Ok ok. Savage ml's are just the best :whacked::whacked:

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Originally Posted by standup

Ok ok. Savage ml's are just the best :whacked::whacked:

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Yep I know your drooling over this engineering marvel!! LOL

http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps250c451f.jpg

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Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

Yep I know your drooling over this engineering marvel!! LOL

http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps250c451f.jpg

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If You knew the half of it. Still got to take an action screw out to pull the breech plug?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by standup

If You knew the half of it. Still got to take an action screw out to pull the breech plug?

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Actually you don't. Why did you pose that as a question if so you are such an expert?

Zingggggg.......:rolleye:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rippin_355

Actually you don't. Why did you pose that as a question if so you are such an expert?

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I'll bet they have a stepped screw at rear now hey? I'm just wondering how close it is to one of the many F ups I told them they had

Quote:

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Originally Posted by standup

I'll bet they have a stepped screw at rear now hey? I'm just wondering how close it is to one of the many F ups I told them they had

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It appears that all your knowledge comes from hear say of others that know as little as you do !:rolleye:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaycee

It appears that all your knowledge comes from hear say of others that know as little as you do !:rolleye:

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God they were an F up. Not what Mr. Ball wanted thats for sure. Imagine, release tour bedding screw on a gun or grind down a socket to fit just to clean. Frikin jokes

If removing the action screw on the older ones bother you just have an extra pillar installed.

Not a big deal and bed it while your are at it.

I love how these threads always go:) Someone always has to rain on someone else's parade. Congrats on the new gun, for the money you can't go wrong with a Savage.

Ya GREAT BUY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And the peanut gallery speaks LOL

Always mark your ram rod on you first initial load (charge) and bullet, so you have a depth reference. This way you will never double load by mistake since you will have a reference point marked on your rod. Savage 10ML II, best on the market....and smokeless :)

Man, why did you revive this thread? Now we have to explain and rationalize, again, to all the non smokeless users, why we like our Savages.:rolleyes:

I don't know if they'll get it, how great a muzzleloader they are, if they did the Savage 10ML II would still be in production. Only Muzzleloader that I know that will hit hard out to 300 yrds +. Knocked a nice buck down in early Oct a couple years ago at 272 yrds., he almost did a somersault.

I'm ON. born and raised but when I lived there I only used rifle for moose and deer, do they have a muzzleloader season in ON? First intro to muzzleloader for me was when I moved to SK. since there is a early season in Oct.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by delmer

Man, why did you revive this thread? Now we have to explain and rationalize, again, to all the non smokeless users, why we like our Savages.:rolleyes:

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Oh that's an easy answer..LOL

http://gb.fotolibra.com/images/previ...n-beacons.jpeg

Nice pic, better yet, nice cap badge/insignia
When did you serve with the Royal Australian Electrical and Mechanical engineers?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 30Cal

Nice pic, better yet, nice cap badge/insignia
When did you serve with the Royal Australian Electrical and Mechanical engineers?

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Yea ..good eye..never got around to changing that...thanks for the reminder !!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by delmer

Man, why did you revive this thread?

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To sound out to the entire world from mountain top how great they are dummy. Gees what else could it be

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr_pimms

Yep there is a reason why they are dirt cheap. Poor quality, fut, and finish. Absolute garbage.

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Another fool no doubt

Another couple bahs from the "expert"! Haha

Ewe do realize that this thread has gone Baaaaad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

Ewe do realize that this thread has gone Baaaaad.

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Well it's about savage ML's . Were You expecting it good be good,,,,duh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

Ewe do realize that this thread has gone Baaaaad.

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I got it, but last time I checked I had a pair so ewe somehow seems awkward. Nevertheless, a few individuals, who have never likely owned a SML, making bias or ignorant comments doesn't seem to constitute a thread gone "baaaaad". If anything, the opponents against the SML helps to exposed those who are uninformed and possibly live to be excrement disturbers, simply because they are miserable with their own muzzleloaders or lives. Moreover, it's good to let these few opponents expose themselves so that one can know who to avoid when searching for serious advise on the SML in general. The numerous hunters I've spoke with that have owned the SML have all given excellent reports about a ML they no longer have to clean after 3 or 4 shots, a ML that shots more accurately and is faster (fps), and is the next evolutionary step up in ML. Maybe it's more a jealousy thing, since the SML is now difficult to obtain and is cherish by those who own them.

Sorry that this thread deviated from your questions about this fantastic ML bellerivercrossbowhunter. You have an awesome and possibly one, if not the best, ML that will serve you well. I have been using IMR SR4759 powder with great success in obtaining sub moa performance out to 100 yrds. Unfortunately, Hodgdon has apparently discontinued SR 4759. However, a search on the net will lead you to other powders that have provided great success. Check out Randy Wakeman's site he is a big proponent of the SML and has lots of info.

http://www.randywakeman.com/savage3.htm

I think you need to go back and read thru the few hundred past threads on this before you start trash talking here and you end up being true to your own words :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 30Cal

and possibly live to be excrement disturbers, simply because they are miserable with their own lives.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I think you need to go back and read thru the few hundred past threads on this before you start trash talking here and you end up being true to your own words :)

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Explain "trash talking", I'm not the one putting down someone else's ML. Especially when they are quite proud of the fine SML they purchased. And Mike you still haven't answered my question, when did you serve with the Royal Canadian Electrical and Mechanical Engineering. I met one or two during my service time and they didn't have attitude and weren't so quick to insult. And RCEME during that time sported a different badge
Attachment 29957

I should also apologize for thinking that you might be an Aussie, after all the design of the badge your sporting as your avatar is similar to the RAEME; which in turn comes from the Corps of Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers. However, it appears to have been altered once again to suit the CAF as of the early 1990s.