New Savage 10ML-II in the house

[sharps4570]

I believe the twist rate may not be conducive to great accuracy with patch/ball?

[MikePal]

I found an article by Chuck Hawks that tried using the patch and ball and found it had dismal results. Kudo's to him for at least trying and field testing the idea.

I see he had better results with the poly patches which I am using in my .45.

A couple of friends more knowledgeable than I regarding muzzleloading rifles suggested starting with 40 grains of FFFg (black, Pyrodex, or Triple Seven) powder behind a .490" diameter Hornady patched ball (BC .070), so that is what I elected to do. Note that this is 40 grains from a volumetric black powder measure, not 40 grains as weighed on a powder scale.

Unfortunately, the initial shooting results at the range were disappointing. I fired a couple of 3-shot groups at 25 yards that ran about 6 1/2" and were all over the paper. The entire center was chewed out of recovered patches, even with the light powder charge. Recoil was practically non-existent, but so was accuracy.

I discontinued testing with patched round balls, deciding that the 1 turn in 24" twist of the Savage's barrel was probably not conducive to such loads. In addition, the pressure was not great enough to flatten the spent 209 primers and they had to be pried out of the 10ML-II's bolt face. This did not seem to be the load of choice in the 10ML-II.

I then tried the same Hornady round balls in Hornady's "Plastic Patches," which are really sabots for ball ammunition. Again I started with 40 grains of FFFg Triple Seven powder.

The first thing that I discovered with this load is that if the ball was seated in the Plastic Patch the combination could not be rammed down the barrel. I resorted to first ramming the Plastic Patch down against the powder, then dropping the ball down the barrel and ramming it into the plastic patch as best I could. I am certain that this method is not recommended, but I wanted to shoot at least a few of these loads, having invested in the Plastic Patches. As they say, don't try this at home.

The procedure worked, producing groups that averaged 1 11/16" at 25 yards. Recoil was light and accuracy was acceptable at 25 yards, but I didn't much like the double ramming operation. I found that if the rifle was dry fired on the spent 209 primer (just raise the bolt handle and close it again to recock the firing pin), the primer would then fall free of the bolt face when the rifle was inverted. This eliminated the stuck primer problem.

reads more: http://www.chuckhawks.com/sav10ML-II.htm

[standup]

These are a great summer past time but be cautious of the heat, allow ample cooling between shots if your expecting tight groups, at least 15 min. between shots. The heat plays havoc on the sabots.

Only if You're smokeless in a savage. Other guns enjoy the heat

[MikePal]

Only if You're smokeless in a savage. Other guns enjoy the heat

I found the same thing, with little heat, my BP barrel tightens up the grouping....

[Big Jack]

Same heat applied will do the same to any sabot regardless of the barrel it is shot in. Come on guys, laws of physics still apply if you shoot BP. If barrel temps are the same, effect on plastic doesn't change.

No magic here. Same as shooting shotgun sabots. Heat kills groups.

[MikePal]

Maybe it's me that shoots better when I get warmed up, my best BP groupings seem to the last ones of the day...LOL....

Could be some guys groupings open up after all the wear and tear on the shoulder and have nothing to do with barrel temps

[sharps4570]

Could be some guys groupings open up after all the wear and tear on the shoulder and have nothing to do with barrel temps

Admittedly, there's a strong element of truth in that statement.

[rippin_355]

It could be that with bp the more fouled the barrel gets the better seal the sabot is making.

[ET1]

Bore Heat and bore fouling are two separate variables when shooting a muzzle-loader using sabots.

Bore fouling can affect accuracy and some muzzle-loaders like to be slightly fouled for better accuracy with sabots. My 10ML-II likes to be slightly fouled and after cleaning I will fire off a couple of primers followed with dry swabbing before I begin my actual shooting.

Bore heat will buildup in the bore with fairly quick consecutive shooting that in turn alters the physical characteristic of sabot performance. Heat softens the sabot and groups will suffer or shift from the result of this. This is why some of us who have experienced the affect of bore heat keep mentioning cooling time for heat dissipation. Another option is using an aluminum rod close to bore diameter to act as a heat sink to help shorten the cooling time between shots.

Consider this that when hunting, you are depending on that first cold bore shot to hit where you are aiming. If your accuracy is dependent on a warm bore as claimed how will you warm that bore up to make an accurate 1^st shot?


Ed

[MikePal]

Consider this that when hunting, you are depending on that first cold bore shot to hit where you are aiming. If your accuracy is dependent on a warm bore as claimed how will you warm that bore up to make an accurate 1^st shot?
Ed

Here's an example from last year ED...first shoot is cold barrel...next 3 in the bull...Consider Hunting, I don't think a deer would notice the difference...LOL.