Purina law suit

http://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-s...s-action-says/

Interestingly my buddy was feeding this to his dog until this weekend. I was up there ice fishing and he was saying his dog was passing nothing but soft stools and seemed inflamed. I told him to try another food and since her guts were already in knots he switched cold turkey. In two days she was pooping normally, loves her new food and has more energy than ever. She is now on a grain free food and the rest of the Beneful is going to be bear bait. Not sure why but Purina doesn't seem to list it's guaranteed analysis on it's website? Maybe it's a marketing thing....:ninja:

He's lucky his dog didn't die eating Beneful (google it), and yes, Purina seems to do a good job of hiding the ingredients in their foods. Dog food advisor has all that info though..

May I ask what he's eating now?

You'd likely be better off shooting a dump bear. I woudn't give Beneful to the bears. You're poisoning your bear meat.

Ingredients: Ingredients: Ground yellow corn, chicken by-product meal, corngluten meal, whole wheat flour, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of vitamin E), beef, rice flour, soy flour, water, meat and bone meal, propylene glycol, sugar, salt, phosphoric acid, tricalcium phosphate, animal digest, potassium chloride, sorbic acid (a preservative), non-fat yogurt powder, dried carrots, dried peas, dicalcium phosphate, calcium propionate (a preservative), choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, red 40, l-lysine monohydrochloride, manganese sulfate, niacin, yellow 5, yellow 6, vitamin A supplement, blue 2, calcium carbonate, copper sulfate, vitamin B12 supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate,garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite

Didn't Blue Buffalo sue Purina (or was it other way arouind?) not too long ago? I wonder what's happening with that.

Dog food advisor has been spot on for the most part. Loyall dog food would also be in the Beneful category in my opinion with almost the same ingredient breakdown. I knew it would be a matter of time that this would be happening to Purina and wouldn't even consider going near a Purina product.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Didn't Blue Buffalo sue Purina (or was it other way arouind?) not too long ago? I wonder what's happening with that.

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answer:

Quote:

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In May 2014, Purina filed a lawsuit against competitor Blue Buffalo regarding alleged false advertising. Blue Buffalo advertised that its products contain no meat byproduct or corn, whereas Purina said independent lab tests confirmed that they do. Blue Buffalo made similar allegations against Purina in a counter-suit less than a week later. It also alleged Purina was engaging in what it characterized as a "smear campaign". The National Advertising Review Board and the Advertising Self-Regulatory Council found that Blue Buffalo's advertising was misleading and its claims that competitors were hiding information about their ingredients were unsubstantiated. Blue Buffalo said it disagreed, but would obey the ruling.

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Thanks Mike!

Well I guess from all this expertise I should be switching away from Purina................ Did folks really read whose behind this lawsuit....my heavens!

Everyone is welcome to feed their choice.

Almost all the Professional Trainers I know feed Purina Performance......imagine how well they could do if they switched, I'm going to tell them I learned this on the OODF.

No ones telling you to switch or saying your dogs would do better on another product but it would concern me if I was feeding a Purina Product that was making animals sick. I would be calling my pet food rep asking for any information he or she had to see if it would affect the product line I was feeding. Many forum members have a great deal of experience on this forum, does that sound familiar.

And you have proof of this?

Based on what?

Do you work for Purina ?

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Originally Posted by terrym

http://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-s...s-action-says/

Interestingly my buddy was feeding this to his dog until this weekend. I was up there ice fishing and he was saying his dog was passing nothing but soft stools and seemed inflamed. I told him to try another food and since her guts were already in knots he switched cold turkey. In two days she was pooping normally, loves her new food and has more energy than ever. She is now on a grain free food and the rest of the Beneful is going to be bear bait. Not sure why but Purina doesn't seem to list it's guaranteed analysis on it's website? Maybe it's a marketing thing....:ninja:

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Terrym if you have more info on this please keep us informed. I am going to call a friend of mine that has a feed and seed store just outside of Chatham to get more info and post. Sometimes it can be certain bags on a particular days that may have been tainted . I remember when Diamond Dog food had a recall a few years back because of dogs getting sick. Only laboratory testing will prove if food had been tainted.

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

Do you work for Purina ?

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Absolutely not....never have....have you worked for them?

A note of caution though might be in order though. You read such a weak report with no causal data what so ever, yet some are quick to jump on the bandwagon. My heavens those dogs could have died from a million other things rather than dog food???? Where they in a controlled environment, did they have access to rodenticides, how about glycol. What a lame statement from the Vet.

First of all it's a pathologists who determines cause of death and if it was a poison 90% of the time it's mineralization of the kidneys not the liver that shows clean.

The other note of caution requires the understanding of slander vs libel. While it's absolutely fine to express an opinion, putting statements in a published forum can put you at risk which is why I said ...."you got proof"

I have told you what a certain group(professional dog trainers) do, no one is expected or required to do as they do. These are a group of the most skilled people we have involved in competition where slight differences mean you go home or stay in the competition. I hope some people can see that there might be a wee bit of difference in their knowledge and skills since that is their livelihood.

YD, awhile back you sang the praises of a total raw diet, while I don't disagree with that diet if you are skilled to put it together, I see you're now totally convinced that quality kibble is the way to go. Is this the 'new' direction or will you be flipping back? An epiphany?

I actually welcome some valid discussion about dog foods, factual data welcome.

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

Loyall dog food would also be in the Beneful category in my opinion with almost the same ingredient breakdown.

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Guess its just a matter of time till my dogs go belly up then. Both are on that awful Loyall stuff

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Originally Posted by krakadawn

Absolutely not....never have....have you worked for them?

A note of caution though might be in order though. You read such a weak report with no causal data what so ever, yet some are quick to jump on the bandwagon. My heavens those dogs could have died from a million other things rather than dog food???? Where they in a controlled environment, did they have access to rodenticides, how about glycol. What a lame statement from the Vet.

First of all it's a pathologists who determines cause of death and if it was a poison 90% of the time it's mineralization of the kidneys not the liver that shows clean.

The other note of caution requires the understanding of slander vs libel. While it's absolutely fine to express an opinion, putting statements in a published forum can put you at risk which is why I said ...."you got proof"

I have told you what a certain group(professional dog trainers) do, no one is expected or required to do as they do. These are a group of the most skilled people we have involved in competition where slight differences mean you go home or stay in the competition. I hope some people can see that there might be a wee bit of difference in their knowledge and skills since that is their livelihood.

YD, awhile back you sang the praises of a total raw diet, while I don't disagree with that diet if you are skilled to put it together, I see you're now totally convinced that quality kibble is the way to go. Is this the 'new' direction or will you be flipping back? An epiphany?

I actually welcome some valid discussion about dog foods, factual data welcome.

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I had a whole slew of things to say but have decided not to because you are very predictable. Why because it's just not worth it and I have enough people on this forum supporting my opinions and views and appreciate all the PM's i get. I do not need to be acknowledged by you or your little parrot chiming every time you make a statement. You really need to take your own advice.

Terry thanks for the info appreciate it very much. I have an old friend out of Winchester Ontario that is a Purina distributor. He is strait up kind of guy and if he has any information he would pass it my way(DATA).

There's a saying about opinions... they're like something else that everyone has. Asking for factual data is the intelligent thing to do for anyone concerned about their dog's health in relation to their feed. What is "predictable" is spouting out opinions as if gospel and then not offering up any data to back them up.

Yellow dog you are so predictable...why don't you just take a break.

I do take my own advice, certainly wouldn't want to take yours.

How condenscending of you with the parrot comment.....grow up and use some manners before I really start to rip into you for your ignorance.

I see all these people coming to your defence.........This isn't the first time you've said it.....interesting

I didn't think a discussion had to be acknowledging....is that what you need?

Very sad indeed but these were comments I had made to you some time ago and now your using them on me. It's obvious it stuck with you but it was meant for YOU. Tell me something what do you hope to get out of all this ? Be honest with me .Send me a PM if you feel more comfortable.

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Originally Posted by krakadawn

Well I guess from all this expertise I should be switching away from Purina................ Did folks really read whose behind this lawsuit....my heavens!

Everyone is welcome to feed their choice.

Almost all the Professional Trainers I know feed Purina Performance......imagine how well they could do if they switched, I'm going to tell them I learned this on the OODF.

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I assume you are being sarcastic? :) I hope so. I've fed Purina since 1958 and never had a problem. I won't be changing. I'll be interested in hearing about the law suit. Media misinformation for $$$$$$$$$$ purposes is rampant in dog food , as dog food is BIG BUSINESS.

I'll refrain from over reacting until the court procedure is completed:

"Purina denies the allegations, calling Beneful “100 per cent safe to feed” and the “lawsuit is without merit.” The company said it will “vigorously defend ourselves through the legal process.” quote


YD:

Dog Advisor's disclaimer:

"The Dog Food Advisor does not test dog food products.
We rely almost entirely on the integrity of the information posted by each company on its website. As such, the accuracy of every review is directly dependent upon the quality of the test results from any specific batch of food a company chooses to publish.
Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.
Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.
However, due to the biological uniqueness of every animal, none of our ratings are intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in a specific dietary response or health benefit for your pet.
For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".
Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help." quote


PS I guess I should start to count my PMs ? :)

Yes Sharon, said tongue in cheek. I won't be changing what I feed and can rationalize why I do. Having said that I welcome any factual data on dog food that may be unacceptable for our canine friends. I thought most people could read through these types of law suits but apparently not...this one included.

All manufacturers produce a variety/levels of food....quality varies within each and everyone. You get what you pay for.

I understand why you have stayed with your choice.

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Originally Posted by krakadawn

Yes Sharon, said tongue in cheek. I won't be changing what I feed and can rationalize why I do. Having said that I welcome any factual data on dog food that may be unacceptable for our canine friends. I thought most people could read through these types of law suits but apparently not...this one included.

All manufacturers produce a variety/levels of food....quality varies within each and everyone. You get what you pay for.
I understand why you have stayed with your choice.

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Exactly. ...........If you remember Purina just finished suing Blue Buffalo over false advertising . It
never ends.

I have toured the Purina Research facilities in St Louis. They have spent millions and millions on this facility . I have never seen a human hospital that keep better records of the effects of the formulas for dog food . no dog was given anything that would harm it . But amount fat content combined with the amount of exercise amount of protein etc . There were 300+ dogs - all house in beautiful kennels .
Each dog was cared for and exercised by a university student . There were trained in the area where the breed excelled eg herding , obedience, agility , tracking. I could not believe the facility .
Since I have visited it the place has apparently tripled in size with arenas for dog activities .

I cannot believe that a company would spend so much money on research and not make a quality product . I am not feeding Purina at this time because my one dog gained so much weight when he was eating it . I cut him down and he acted like he was starving and i could not give him the exercise he needed. ( He needs daily training ).

Most of the hard training dogs on the curcuit eat Purina (Premium Quality) and they look like conditioned athletes and perform like one too.

As with children there are dogs that do better on one food than another . I don't care what you feed your dog ... but when I see him I know by his coat, energy level and stools if his food is right for him.
I do not like this bashing of dog food companies .There have been mistakes in the past and usually the dog food companies pay out for their mistakes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sharon

I assume you are being sarcastic? :) I hope so. I've fed Purina since 1948 and never had a problem. I won't be changing. I'll be interested in hearing about the law suit.

YD:

Dog Advisor's disclaimer:

"The Dog Food Advisor does not test dog food products.
We rely almost entirely on the integrity of the information posted by each company on its website. As such, the accuracy of every review is directly dependent upon the quality of the test results from any specific batch of food a company chooses to publish.
Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.
Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.
However, due to the biological uniqueness of every animal, none of our ratings are intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in a specific dietary response or health benefit for your pet.
For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".
Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help." quote

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Thank you Sharon I appreciate that very much. Once I get the current information on this claim from my friend who is a Purina distributor I will let others know. When Diamond had the recall i stopped feeding it until I found out it wasn't the Diamond dog food line I was feeding. It was still very much of a concern to me because my dogs are family members. I quickly called my supplier who informed what I was feeding was safe. I was ready to completely move away from feeding Diamond products. I forget the amount of money Diamond had to pay out to the owners of these sick family pets but they did .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

Very sad indeed but these were comments I had made to you some time ago and now your using them on me. It's obvious it stuck with you but it was meant for YOU. Tell me something what do you hope to get out of all this ? Be honest with me .Send me a PM if you feel more comfortable.

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YD, I've stated what would be of value here...good fact based/experiential discussion to provide others with information to make informed choices...one way or the other.

You tell us that you bred and competed in the sled dog world. That's great and those experiences are very valuable to share as most understand the riggers and expectations with these dogs .I see these as a very valuable asset. Deal to your strength

Don't make disparaging comments to another. You don't like his comment, then fine , say so. The word 'parrot' put you way out of line, hence my response.

You can PM me if this still causes you concern. Come out to a trial some day, see what's expected of these dogs, I'll buy you a coffee/beer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wood Witch

I have toured the Purina Research facilities in St Louis. They have spent millions and millions on this facility . I have never seen a human hospital that keep better records of the effects of the formulas for dog food . no dog was given anything that would harm it . But amount fat content combined with the amount of exercise amount of protein etc . There were 300+ dogs - all house in beautiful kennels .
Each dog was cared for and exercised by a university student . There were trained in the area where the breed excelled eg herding , obedience, agility , tracking. I could not believe the facility .
Since I have visited it the place has apparently tripled in size with arenas for dog activities .

I cannot believe that a company would spend so much money on research and not make a quality product . I am not feeding Purina at this time because my one dog gained so much weight when he was eating it . I cut him down and he acted like he was starving and i could not give him the exercise he needed. ( He needs daily training ).

Most of the hard training dogs on the curcuit eat Purina (Premium Quality) and they look like conditioned athletes and perform like one too.

As with children there are dogs that do better on one food than another . I don't care what you feed your dog ... but when I see him I know by his coat, energy level and stools if his food is right for him.
I do not like this bashing of dog food companies .There have been mistakes in the past and usually the dog food companies pay out for their mistakes

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Yes many of the top dog food companies have incredible sophisticated plants and it is not the intention to poison any animal. Mistakes can happen or ingredients mislabeled or incorrect amount put in to a mix or improperly sanitized. I have seen it happen in the early 1990's a Canadian pet food manufacturer made a mistake on an ingredient that caused dogs to drink more water and slowly changed the dogs coat color from black fur to a burnt orange color over time..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

Thank you Sharon I appreciate that very much. Once I get the current information on this claim from my friend who is a Purina distributor I will let others know. When Diamond had the recall i stopped feeding it until I found out it wasn't the Diamond dog food line I was feeding. It was still very much of a concern to me because my dogs are family members. I quickly called my supplier who informed what I was feeding was safe. I was ready to completely move away from feeding Diamond products. I forget the amount of money Diamond had to pay out to the owners of these sick family pets but they did .

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The problem with these law suits is that , how do you prove it was the dog food? The lawyer for the plaintiff has to figure out how it was only the dog food that was the dependent variable in the deaths. Almost impossible to prove . He'/ she would have to prove that EVERY other variable was the same for EVERY dog. Good luck.
The defendant's lawyer will of course be able to provide thousands of dog owners who feed Beneful and have had no problems.

All it adds up to is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$for lawyers.

I'm tired with talking about dog food. Our dogs no matter what they get, eat better that thousands/millions? of people in this world.
Good night. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krakadawn

YD, I've stated what would be of value here...good fact based/experiential discussion to provide others with information to make informed choices...one way or the other.

You tell us that you bred and competed in the sled dog world. That's great and those experiences are very valuable to share as most understand the riggers and expectations with these dogs .I see these as a very valuable asset. Deal to your strength

Don't make disparaging comments to another. You don't like his comment, then fine , say so. The word 'parrot' put you way out of line, hence my response.

You can PM me if this still causes you concern. Come out to a trial some day, see what's expected of these dogs, I'll buy you a coffee/beer.

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I accept ! If you have dates in mind please let me know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wood Witch

I have toured the Purina Research facilities in St Louis. They have spent millions and millions on this facility . I have never seen a human hospital that keep better records of the effects of the formulas for dog food . no dog was given anything that would harm it . But amount fat content combined with the amount of exercise amount of protein etc . There were 300+ dogs - all house in beautiful kennels .
Each dog was cared for and exercised by a university student . There were trained in the area where the breed excelled eg herding , obedience, agility , tracking. I could not believe the facility .
Since I have visited it the place has apparently tripled in size with arenas for dog activities .

They are certainly one of the leaders in nutritional research as well. Their Soft Tissue research is well recognized within performance dogs. Bottom line was soft tissue injuries increased as the level of protein/fat was reduced. Optimum was a 30/20 ratio with significantly more injuries as the ratio decreased thus paving the way for a conclusion that performance food was appropriate for other levels ..........
I cannot believe that a company would spend so much money on research and not make a quality product . I am not feeding Purina at this time because my one dog gained so much weight when he was eating it . I cut him down and he acted like he was starving and i could not give him the exercise he needed. ( He needs daily training ).

Most of the hard training dogs on the curcuit eat Purina (Premium Quality) and they look like conditioned athletes and perform like one too.

As with children there are dogs that do better on one food than another . I don't care what you feed your dog ... but when I see him I know by his coat, energy level and stools if his food is right for him.
I do not like this bashing of dog food companies .There have been mistakes in the past and usually the dog food companies pay out for their mistakes

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Purina has led the way with nutritional research for awhile. The soft tissue injury study was excellent. Injuries in dogs increased significantly as the 30/20 ratio decreased. This has implications for all dogs.

This seems to be the hubub. Whether it's true or not remains to be seen, although we will most likely never find out:

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Sorry – you are obviously not aware that the FDA found INDUSTRIAL grade Propylene Glycol at the Chinese jerky manufacturing plants that supplied Purina with their killer Waggin Train and Canyon Creek Ranch Jerky treats? Beneful is 1% Propylene Glycol which can be contaminated by lethal Di-Ethylene Glycol or, if it has been made from Jatropha used as biofuel, then it will contain lethal Ricin and Curcin.. the ONLY available test for Ricin is extremely expensive and only available in cases of suspected terrorism.. FDA wants industry to watch for glycerin from Jatropha – Plant popular in biodiesel produces potentially toxic byproducts –

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http://www.fiercepharmamanufacturing...pha/2012-07-10

Latest update from the FDA in regards to jerky treats.

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/.../ucm434865.htm

Just double checked what I feed. No Propylene Glycol.

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Originally Posted by terrym

Just double checked what I feed. No Propylene Glycol.

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You better check your people food too Terry....Proplyene Glycol is in allot of the food WE eat...why ..because the FDA has deemed it safe

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Propylene glycol is metabolized by animals and can be used as a carbohydrate source. Propylene glycol can be ingested over long periods of time and in substantial quantities (up to 5 percent of the total food intake) without causing frank toxic effects. Propylene glycol monostearate is readily hydrolysed in vivo and the propylene glycol and fatty acid moieties enter their respective metabolic pathways. At lethal or near lethal doses (6 g per kg or more), however, it has been reported to cause kidney damage in several species and toe deformities in chicks. These doses contrast with the few mg per kg per day estimated in Section III of this report to be the human daily dietary intake of propylene glycol. The Select Committee has weighed the available information and concludes that: There is no evidence in the available information on propylene glycol and propylene glycol monostearate that demonstrates, or suggests reason to suspect, a hazard to the public when they are used at levels that are now current or that might reasonably be expected in future.

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/script...listing&id=262

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Latest update from the FDA in regards to jerky treats.

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/.../ucm434865.htm

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let's not gloss over that..as of last year after 3 yrs of 'extensive' studies the FDA has said:

Quote:

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To date, testing for contaminants in jerky pet treats has not revealed a cause for the illnesses. Since 2011, in concert with Vet-LIRN, we have collected approximately 360 jerky treat samples relating to more than 165 consumer-related complaints, plus more than 240 retail samples (unopened bags obtained from a store or shipment), and performed more than 1000 tests on these samples. We also ran more than 240 tests on historical samples (those received in 2007-2011).

While we do not subject every sample to the entire battery of testing, due to limited resources and in some cases a lack of enough material to test, we target our testing based on the product and the symptoms displayed by the pet. Testing may include one or more of the following analyses:

• Salmonella
• Metals or Elements (such as arsenic, cadmium and lead, etc.)
• Markers of irradiation level (such as acyclobutanones).
• Pesticides
• Antibiotics (including both approved and unapproved sulfanomides and tetracyclines)
• Antivirals (amantadine, rimantadine, oseltamivir and others)
• Mold and mycotoxins (toxins from mold)
• Rodenticides
• Nephrotoxins (such as aristolochic acid, maleic acid, paraquat, ethylene glycol, diethylene glycol, toxic hydrocarbons, melamine, and related triazines)
• Other chemicals and poisonous compounds (such as endotoxins).

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/.../ucm371465.htm

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This lawsuit will likely never go to court...just the fact that he had 3 dogs, different breeds all get sick all at the same time means that they were probably poisoned..yes...but the fact that he lives in an area in the country that probably sells a couple hundred thousand bags of Beneful in a week and no news organization has jump on any story of massive dogs death due to poisoning, it would likely not end up not being the dog food.

There would have to be more than one case within a lot of food to become suspicious of the product. His lawyers would have to get a good portion of the entire lot and have it tested to prove the food was the source. So far I haven't seen any other coverage than the media hype about the lawsuit and 300 people jumping on the 'class action' bandwagon.

I like to keep an open mind and nothing in Purina's history would stop me from using their products and the fact that that they are still, and remain the main sponsor the most prestigious Dog show (Westminster) means the dog community also stands behind their products.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

You better check your people food too Terry....Proplyene Glycol is in allot of the food WE eat...why ..because the FDA has deemed it safe

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Hey, the FDA allows the sale of nicotine too. I avoid it personally. And the dog community will stand behind whoever gives them funding. No other corporations can duplicate Nestlé's marketing power. Millions of dogs live on very low quality foods and live long lives. Some/many live on table scraps. I'm not saying everything Purina makes is bad, they wouldn't have become a global pet food power if it was, what I see is ingredients I choose to avoid. I feed a quality "Canadian" made product and have no reason or feel any obligations to change.
Large corporations have risk teams that evaluate corporate exposure to law suits. What they do is factor a return on investment for a product. If the net profit after potential litigation costs is positive then often they will go to market. Large Pharma and even Automotive do this. Seeing corporate banners at most dog events just tells me they are excellent marketers. In a case like this no 2 bit lawyer will prevail over Nestlé's corporate legal resources, not going to happen. Dogs that become ill are within the margin of risk.
I also have a problem with the whole "all the top trial dogs use it" thing. I have no doubt they all use it, it's the major sponsor. But if all competitors use it how can you use it as a benchmark of performance? In fact it pretty well removes nutrition as a variable. Performance then goes to training, breeding and conditioning. If the level of nutrition for that food were to drop or improve all dogs would experience the same levels of performance, good or bad so food can't be used as much of a benchmark. If you have used the same food for 30 years how can you be certain there isn't a better one, you haven't tried it. There are automobile race circuits where all competitors drive identical Hondas for example. Doesn't mean the car is the best one just the sponsor stepping up and allowing people to pursue their chosen hobby.
I'm not a breeder, I'm not a dog food industry rep. I couldn't care less what people feed their dogs.

krakadawn,

"I actually welcome some valid discussion about dog foods, factual data welcome."

I feed my dog raw and he is as healthy as a horse.There is no big learning curve.Raw chicken carcass in the morning and a big chunk of raw meat in the evening.Whats in the raw meat,dont really know,muscle,liver,heart,bit of lung.Throw in a raw egg once a week,cut grate some raw carrots,cut up some raw kale,a little fish oil.Its not rocket science.

Its also not rocker science to do some research on the net and find hundreds of reports of recalls and dogs getting sick from commercial food.Save on vet bills and feed raw.

Hey Gilroy, sounds like it works for you. You're fortunate to have a source of chicken and raw meat.

Here's a bunch of data if you feel inclined to go through it all. The lawsuit is partially being based on this study:

Association for Truth in Pet Food announces the publication of The Pet Food Test Results. This history making project is all thanks to some very determined pet food consumers. What we found is truly shocking and sad.
There is nothing much to say – the results speak for themselves. But – and this is significant – the test results are ONLY the first step. The next very significant step is to write your state and federal representatives and ask them to investigate the condition of pet food. No petitions (please) – representatives in government need to receive hundreds of thousands of personal messages directly from pet food consumers demanding change. Information is provided below the results on how to contact your Representatives in Washington, D.C. Your state government website will provide information on how to contact your particular State Representatives. After you read the results – please take the time to email all of your federal and state government representatives.
The Pet Food Test results are provided 3 ways…

1. An infographic easy to share in social media overview of the results;
2. A two page easy to print overview of the results;
3. The full Pet Food Test Results.

http://associationfortruthinpetfood....-test-results/

This is the actual lab testing in PDF:

http://associationfortruthinpetfood....tFoodTest1.pdf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krakadawn

Well I guess from all this expertise I should be switching away from Purina................ Did folks really read whose behind this lawsuit....my heavens!

Everyone is welcome to feed their choice.

Almost all the Professional Trainers I know feed Purina Performance......imagine how well they could do if they switched, I'm going to tell them I learned this on the OODF.

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Thanks krakadawn, It's put me at ease to know allot of professionals have confidence in the product that my dog has always ate.
Freaked me out when I read the OP. I'll be keeping an eye on it though. Thanks for the heads up Terrym

Quote:

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Here's a bunch of data if you feel inclined to go through it all. The lawsuit is partially being based on this study: http://associationfortruthinpetfood....-test-results/

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Not sure how old those links are....but the FDA, as of Sept 2014...found no link to the deaths/ilnesses of the dogs and Mycotoxins

Quote:

---

To date, testing for contaminants in jerky pet treats has not revealed a cause for the illnesses. Since 2011, in concert with Vet-LIRN, we have collected approximately 360 jerky treat samples relating to more than 165 consumer-related complaints, plus more than 240 retail samples (unopened bags obtained from a store or shipment), and performed more than 1000 tests on these samples. We also ran more than 240 tests on historical samples

---

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/.../ucm371465.htm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

Not sure how old those links are....but the FDA, as of Sept 2014...found no link to the deaths/ilnesses of the dogs and Mycotoxins



http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/.../ucm371465.htm

---

According to the site the test results were release January of this year:

http://associationfortruthinpetfood....ns-weve-taken/

I was feeding my dog this exact food and she was having some problems. She was getting very itchy eyes and ears and was constantly scratching. I figured it was an allergy to the corn filler that they used so I switched to a food with none. That was last week, now this lawsuit comes out and it makes me wonder if there was something else going on. The dog seems to be improving but I am reminded of a sign that I saw at a restaurant once;
"Good food isn't cheap, and cheap food isn't good"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

According to the site the test results were release January of this year:

http://associationfortruthinpetfood....ns-weve-taken/

---

I saw that, but I can't find the test results.procedures themselves, where is the scientific report ?

All I can find are those PowerPoint charts which really have no meaning. They have risk equivalent charts on a scale of 5-10-20..but they don't say what that means. They say 'serious'...how high is 'serious ?

Why would they hold back the actual study ?

For example....this is a 'proper' study done on the "Jerky Treats" conducted by the CVM...last year...

Basically the CVM testing results found no adverse findings.....as was submitted back to the FDA..

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AnimalV.../UCM371485.pdf

As you can see, far more credible results and I would think that unless the ATFP publishes a peir review of the CMA's investigation, there really is no point in believing that they have found results that counter what the FDA/CDC and CVM have published to date.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

I saw that, but I can't find the test results.procedures themselves, where is the scientific report ?

All I can find are those PowerPoint charts which really have no meaning. They have risk equivalent charts on a scale of 5-10-20..but they don't say what that means. They say 'serious'...how high is 'serious ?

Why would they hold back the actual study ?

For example....this is a 'proper' study done on the "Jerky Treats" conducted by the CVM...last year...

Basically the CVM testing results found no adverse findings.....as was submitted back to the FDA..

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AnimalV.../UCM371485.pdf

As you can see, far more credible results and I would think that unless the ATFP publishes a peir review of the CMA's investigation, there really is no point in believing that they have found results that counter what the FDA/CDC and CVM have published to date.

---

To be honest, I didn't go that far into it (scanned over it quickly), but I did read that if you want to contact the association that did the study they will give you a breakdown. They set up the graphs the way they did to make it easier to understand, supposedly.

As you said, if the data isn't there then it won't likely get to court.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cjmcguire259

I was feeding my dog this exact food and she was having some problems. She was getting very itchy eyes and ears and was constantly scratching. I figured it was an allergy to the corn filler that they used so I switched to a food with none.

---

Well that makes sense...like people, some dogs respond to some ingredients differently...think of Gluten... so you need to find a food that doesn't bother that 'allergy'.....it doesn't mean that the Dog Food that he is allergic to, should be labelled as 'bad' to the hundreds of thousands of other dogs that eat it and don't have issues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

As you said, if the data isn't there then it won't likely get to court.

---

Can you imagine going to court against Nestle (Purina), with the 'negative' results/finding they have from the CDC/FDA and CVM with a handful of vague ATFP power point charts put together by a group of volunteer scientist working on their behalf.....Nah !!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

Can you imagine going to court against Nestle (Purina), with the 'negative' results/finding they have from the CDC/FDA and CVM with a handful of vague ATFP power point charts put together by a group of volunteer scientist working on their behalf.....Nah !!

---

No I can't, and if so what a waste of money and time. I'm assuming they have SOMETHING.

Quote:

---

Dr. Cathy Alinovi, a veterinarian in Indiana, reviewed the group’s report prior to release and said the procedures adhered to good scientific standards.

---

http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2015/0.../#.VO-COZT3i70

Did you read the last para...that is what I was referring to, without a review of the testing, it's meaningless....

Quote:

---

Update (Jan. 8): Microbiologist and food safety blogger Phyllis Entis has published a critique of the testing project, questioning why the testing focused on bacteria of lesser concern and only tested to the genus level, which she says makes the results essentially useless from a food safety perspective. The ATPF has responded to the critique, including saying that they tested for more high-profile pathogens, but none were found.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

Did you read the last para...that is what I was referring to, without a review of the testing, it's meaningless....

---

Yes, I read her entire article earlier, but I can't find the actual article I was reading that had the comments. Oh well, this is the same one anyway without the comments:

https://efoodalert.wordpress.com/201...-and-saddened/




Here's the response :

http://truthaboutpetfood.com/it-is-not-junk-science/

If you read both articles (the one I first read by Phyllis) there are some interesting comments at the bottom of both as well.

My favorite line so far..

Quote:

---

Until then – to consumers – don’t pay any attention to attacks on us from anyone. Our science will hold up against any foe. We did it right. We did good.

---

Reminds me of a quote from a great movie..." Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain....

Sorry, but Susan Thixton lost me (at least her credibility/professionalism) with that and when she started her rebuttal by trash talking.

Quote:

---

Phyllis Entis is probably known to many readers here – she was known as ‘The Food Bug Lady’ when she had a blog about food safety. Today – she came out of her retirement from blogging to call our pet food test results “junk science”.

---

I don't see this going very far....I think you are right..probably a big waste of money, in a least in bringing Purina to court...BUT ...if it makes people more aware of what they are feeding their dogs...then it was worth every penny !!

wow. I started writing something in the morning, had no time to finish it and when I come back the debate rages on...
I am with Mike - this is not science.

Bottom line - most foods are fine, feed whatever works for your dog, grain free is a fad (but there are dogs out there no doubt that would do better on it).
Grab red highlighter and check human food ingredients on boxes and cans in your kitchen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Yes, I read her entire article earlier, but I can't find the actual article I was reading that had the comments. Oh well, this is the same one anyway without the comments:

https://efoodalert.wordpress.com/201...-and-saddened/




Here's the response :

http://truthaboutpetfood.com/it-is-not-junk-science/

If you read both articles (the one I first read by Phyllis) there are some interesting comments at the bottom of both as well.

---

Rick my friend that sells Purina Products didn't really have any new updates or details to add. He is aware of what has been going through his rep from Purina. He sells the Pro Plan line not the grocery store line such as Beneful. He recommended that i go on the Purina Canada website and fill out the form ask my questions with regards to the investigation or if Canadian products were affected. So I did and hopefully I will gets some answers shortly. I also checked out the careers on the Purina website and couldn't believe the amount of jobs being offered from Marketing Research, Forklift Operators, IT, Lawyers etc. being advertised. The list was as long as my arm and they were all based out of Guelph. So if anyone is looking for a job Purina is hiring.

The only evidence I need that Purina makes a quality products is in the health and performance of my dogs. Both dogs have been eating Purina or Loyall (same same) since they were puppies. Both dogs are in great shape and have had no food related health issues over 7 years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jobbershunting

The only evidence I need that Purina makes a quality products is in the health and performance of my dogs. Both dogs have been eating Purina or Loyall (same same) since they were puppies. Both dogs are in great shape and have had no food related health issues over 7 years.

---

Amen to that. Loyall was a godsend for my dog. I tried a ton of foods before finding one that worked for him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jobbershunting

The only evidence I need that Purina makes a quality products is in the health and performance of my dogs. Both dogs have been eating Purina or Loyall (same same) since they were puppies. Both dogs are in great shape and have had no food related health issues over 7 years.

---

And that's all the evidence you need. Others are looking or are feeding something of higher nutritional value but with that a higher price. Whatever fits your pocket book. I fed Nutrichoice many years ago when funds were tight because I had a growing family. I paid $19.00 for a 40lb bag. It was a SHURGAIN product line and it was a meat base dog food. I never had any issues with it but did have to supplement during the winter for my working dogs. Fortunately my father in law had a butcher shop and I got all the chicken backs and necks and band saw meat shavings . I know 2 people that are still feeding Nutrichoice and have been for close to twenty years and are paying $24.00 a bag not bad for a meat base dog food.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by yellow dog

And that's all the evidence you need. Others are looking or are feeding something of higher nutritional value but with that a higher price. Whatever fits your pocket book. I fed Nutrichoice many years ago when funds were tight because I had a growing family. I paid $19.00 for a 40lb bag. It was a SHURGAIN product line and it was a meat base dog food. I never had any issues with it but did have to supplement during the winter for my working dogs. Fortunately my father in law had a butcher shop and I got all the chicken backs and necks and band saw meat shavings . I know 2 people that are still feeding Nutrichoice and have been for close to twenty years and are paying $24.00 a bag not bad for a meat base dog food.

---

Yes, I think people should feed the best food they can afford, and of course one that works for their dog.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krakadawn

Hey Gilroy, sounds like it works for you. You're fortunate to have a source of chicken and raw meat.

---

Chicken carcasses go for 50cents at almost all stores around here and my meat is $40.00 for a 40lb case.So its $1.50 per day.

The big savings are in vet bills, my SIL had a labradoddle,untold skin/allergy problems for the first year while on commercial dog food
after switching to raw,no more problems and no big vet bills.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Chicken carcasses go for 50cents at almost all stores around here and my meat is $40.00 for a 40lb case.So its $1.50 per day.

The big savings are in vet bills, my SIL had a labradoddle,untold skin/allergy problems for the first year while on commercial dog food
after switching to raw,no more problems and no big vet bills.

---

Chicken carcasses are not a balanced diet. I worked very closely with an animal nutritionist and other mushers as well and it still needs additional organ meats and supplements such as the one he developed vita-lap. Yes chicken backs, neck are a great fat supplement and will put weight on your dog but its basically fat and cartilage. Every dog or animal requires a whole host of additional important components to be balanced.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

Every dog or animal requires a whole host of additional important components to be balanced.

---

Whenever you can..look for this seal ( or similar) on the bag..means it's a balanced diet;

http://www.albertnorthvetclinic.ca/s...-logo-2009.gif

That's for a bag of dog food not raw to what Gilroy is referring to. I never looked for the seal of approval when I fed raw because I worked with an animal nutritionist that focused on high performance animals that were fed a raw diet. Vets are not animal nutritionist. Just like a GP isn't a brain surgeon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Whenever you can..look for this seal ( or similar) on the bag..means it's a balanced diet;

http://www.albertnorthvetclinic.ca/s...-logo-2009.gif

---

I wonder if only the Proctor and Gamble products have that seal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by yellow dog

Chicken carcasses are not a balanced diet. I worked very closely with an animal nutritionist and other mushers as well and it still needs additional organ meats and supplements such as the one he developed vita-lap. Yes chicken backs, neck are a great fat supplement and will put weight on your dog but its basically fat and cartilage. Every dog or animal requires a whole host of additional important components to be balanced.

---

I did not write that chicken carcasses are a balanced diet.Try and read the whole post to get the whole picture.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Chicken carcasses go for 50cents at almost all stores around here and my meat is $40.00 for a 40lb case.So its $1.50 per day.


The big savings are in vet bills, my SIL had a labradoddle,untold skin/allergy problems for the first year while on commercial dog food
after switching to raw,no more problems and no big vet bills.

---

My close friend and professor at OVC told me that the best pet food was leftover people food mixed with good quailty kibble for roughage and fiber.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

I wonder if only the Proctor and Gamble products have that seal.

---

He also told me not to put too much stock in package labelling because endorsements for advertising can be bought.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

I did not write that chicken carcasses are a balanced diet.Try and read the whole post to get the whole picture.

---

Sure seemed like it when you write chicken carcases and my meat in the same sentence. You didn't identify what was in your meat that you are paying a $1.50 a day. I use to buy the frozen 50lb blocks of musher mix for $20.00. It contained beef,chicken,tripe, trout, liver and if the market changed horse meat. Every three months a bunch of us would put our order in and meet in Walefield Quebec for pick up. To this day a reliable source still makes the delivery to the people who are feeding raw. Now that's cheap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

My close friend and professor at OVC told me that the best pet food was leftover people food mixed with good quailty kibble for roughage and fiber.



He also told me not to put too much stock in package labelling because endorsements for advertising can be bought.

---

I wouldn't disagree with that advice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

I wonder if only the Proctor and Gamble products have that seal.

---

I work for proctor and gamble (though not in the pet food sector) and I can definitely vouch that quality is their number one priority. If you mess up or miss a quality check your neck is on the line - its not something they take lightly.

Looks like P and G sold most of their pet foods to Mars last year.

Mars, Incorporated and The Procter & Gamble Company today announce that Mars has agreed to buy the IAMS®, EUKANUBA®, and NATURA® brands in major markets for US$2.9 Billion in cash. This is a significant strategic move for Mars Petcare to complement its large and growing global Petcare business.

http://www.mars.com/global/press-cen...eId=94&Id=5605



Why Procter & Gamble Is Dropping Out of Pet Foods


While pet food is becoming a higher-margin business marked by exorbitant spending by affluent animal lovers in mature markets, the kind of innovations required to command $6 per pound prices in the domain of upscale dog and cat chow do not come cheap. “It’s not a low-cost business,” says Deborah Aitken, an analyst with Bloomberg Industries. “It’s seen as quite a staple category and it’s driven by innovation and research. A lot of the innovation for human foods is also pushed across the house to the pet care food.”


http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles...ut-of-dog-food

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

He also told me not to put too much stock in package labelling because endorsements for advertising can be bought.

---

I don't think the CVMA seal of approval is 'bought' by anyone....they don't need to advertise

I like that quote in the blog Rick;

Quote:

---

That’s why, no matter how much it revved up research to make the most attractive, high-margin meal a dog lover could serve, those sales would still mean very little to the company’s overall results.

---

You know your beat when..LOL......sad to see #3 go, means we're left with just the top two manufactures (Mars and Nestle) who can then monopolize the market. Fortunately they know their bread & butter is the low end foods, like P&G found out it's not worth the cost to try and target the small demand for the high end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

You know your beat when..LOL......sad to see #3 go, means we're left with just the top two manufactures (Mars and Nestle) who can then monopolize the market. Fortunately they know their bread & butter is the low end foods, like P&G found out it's not worth the cost to try and target the small demand for the high end.

---

That's right Mike, but they were actually in 4th place according to Bloomberg, just behind Colgate. Science Diet pet foods was owned by Colgate. I always thought the Science Diet line of cheap food was owned by P and G as well, but Hill's has that line now. It's tough to keep up with this stuff!

Quote:

---

The rise in fancy pet food specifically, however, is another story. On the one hand, it’s a nod to the nationwide trend towards more natural, and often expensive, foods—for evidence, look no further than the tumble of Colgate-Palmolive’s Science Diet brand dog food, which is associated with artificiality. But it’s also, more simply, a marker of a growing tendency to treat pets like proper members of the American family. “It is now considered socially acceptable to treat pets as members of the family and to express that by spending lavishly on them, especially when it comes to food,” David Lummis, senior pet-industry analyst for Packaged Facts, told the New York Times back in 2012.

---

http://qz.com/196256/americans-seem-...o/#/h/59952,3/

Pet-Food Brand's Image Bites Back Colgate

Quote:

---

Colgate-Palmolive Co. has a problem when it comes to pet food. Its Science Diet brand doesn't appeal to pet owners the way it once did.

---

http://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1...&mg=reno64-wsj


People are really starting to take interest in what they feed their pets, which is great.

I'm happy that at this time anyway, I don't need to keep track of who owns the company I buy my dog food from. They're a solid company built on a solid reputation and seem to keep everything transparent about what they do. I used to feed Canidae many years ago, when it was a Ma and Pop operation. They had a clean record with no recalls, but then Diamond bought them out, and they changed the formula. I was wondering why my dog didn't like her food anymore and then discovered this, so I changed brands.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

That's right Mike, but they were actually in 4th place according to Bloomberg, just behind Colgate. Science Diet pet foods was owned by Colgate. I always thought the Science Diet line of cheap food was owned by P and G as well, but Hill's has that line now. It's tough to keep up with this stuff!



http://qz.com/196256/americans-seem-...o/#/h/59952,3/

Pet-Food Brand's Image Bites Back Colgate



http://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1...&mg=reno64-wsj

---

I don't know about you Rick but I am so glad that I made the switch to more of a mom and pop type business base that produces a top notch product. Even Cory Pet Foods that produces Inukshuk I have had discussions with is a family base business amd also produces a top notch food. The thing about Cory is I can pick up the phone and call them direct and speak to them if I have a concern or want to order a pallet of dog food and have it delivered to my door. They even invited me to the plant on a few occasions to go on a tour and both companies are Canadian. We should be promoting these companies more and be proud of what they have accomplished in this huge market.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by yellow dog

I don't know about you Rick but I am so glad that I made the switch to more of a mom and pop type business base that produces a top notch product. Even Cory Pet Foods that produces Inukshuk I have had discussions with is a family base business amd also produces a top notch food. The thing about Cory is I can pick up the phone and call them direct and speak to them if I have a concern or want to order a pallet of dog food and have it delivered to my door. They even invited me to the plant on a few occasions to go on a tour and both companies are Canadian. We should be promoting these companies more and be proud of what they have accomplished in this huge market.

---

Yes,,lol I edited my last post to add exactly that YD.

Especially when you see lists like this:

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-recalls/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Yes,,lol I edited my last post to add exactly that YD.

Especially when you see lists like this:

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-recalls/

---

Wow a bunch of raw dog foods on the top of the list. I never thought I would see that since they are so healthy. Goes to show it can happen to any company and even more reason to shop and buy from a small reputable Canadian company.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by yellow dog

Wow a bunch of raw dog foods on the top of the list.

---

The list is done by date....not a Top 10...

With Raw food, there is always a heightened potential to be contaminated with Listeria and Salmonella.

And the Diamond recall summary includes 14 different brands -- many highly regarded

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

The list is done by date....not a Top 10...

With Raw food, there is always a heightened potential to be contaminated with Listeria and Salmonella.

---

Agreed on the raw risk.
The list has a link to sort by brand. More enlightening.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by C.A. in TO

And the Diamond recall summary includes 14 different brands -- many highly regarded

---

Yes but that was a few years ago and they paid out for that .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by yellow dog

Sure seemed like it when you write chicken carcases and my meat in the same sentence. You didn't identify what was in your meat that you are paying a $1.50 a day. I use to buy the frozen 50lb blocks of musher mix for $20.00. It contained beef,chicken,tripe, trout, liver and if the market changed horse meat. Every three months a bunch of us would put our order in and meet in Walefield Quebec for pick up. To this day a reliable source still makes the delivery to the people who are feeding raw. Now that's cheap.

---

You probably missed post #35

I feed my dog raw and he is as healthy as a horse.There is no big learning curve.Raw chicken carcass in the morning and a big chunk of raw meat in the evening.Whats in the raw meat,dont really know,muscle,liver,heart,bit of lung.Throw in a raw egg once a week,cut grate some raw carrots,cut up some raw kale,a little fish oil.Its not rocket science

[QUOTE=trimmer21;879438]My close friend and professor at OVC told me that the best pet food was leftover people food mixed with good quailty kibble for roughage and fiber.

Raw is digested in 6 hours and kibble in 12 hours,that is why its not real good to mix.Some kibble is never fully digested and that is why dogs take a second crack at it in the form of stoles.

[QUOTE=Gilroy;880114]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [COLOR=#333333

Gilroy;879438]
Raw is digested in 6 hours and kibble in 12 hours,that is why its not real good to mix.Some kibble is never fully digested and that is why dogs take a second crack at it in the form of stoles.

---

According to my nutritionist friend, it's not a problem to feed both. I've read the debates from both sides however. Some say no and others say it doesn't matter. I feed both to my pooch and no problems. They digest everything just fine, or at least my dog does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by yellow dog

Sure seemed like it when you write chicken carcases and my meat in the same sentence. You didn't identify what was in your meat that you are paying a $1.50 a day. I use to buy the frozen 50lb blocks of musher mix for $20.00. It contained beef,chicken,tripe, trout, liver and if the market changed horse meat. Every three months a bunch of us would put our order in and meet in Walefield Quebec for pick up. To this day a reliable source still makes the delivery to the people who are feeding raw. Now that's cheap.

---

Did you factor into the math the time and gas for the drive to Quebec.

Saugus man alleges Beneful pet food killed his dog

A Massachusetts man has filed suit against pet food maker Nestle Purina alleging that its Beneful food kills dogs.
It’s the second potential class-action lawsuit filed against the company in less than a month. Rumors about the dog food line have swirled around the Internet since at least 2007, according to the website Snopes.com, and Nestle Purina has consistently asserted that its product is safe.
The lawsuit, filed Feb. 27 in federal court in Boston, said that Saugus resident Paul Malcolm suffered “severe physical and emotional distress” after his Rotweiler-bulldog mix Ben died on February 26 after collapsing several times during the night of February 25 and the next morning. Although Malcolm rushed his 135-pound dog to Saugus Animal Hospital, the complaint says, the dog died en route.
Ben had been fed a diet of Beneful Healthy Weight for three to four years, which the complaint asserts had a “direct and proximate” role in the dog’s death. To support their claims, the attorneys offered 11 testimonials from pet owners culled from the Internet, as well as studies they claim prove the food to be toxic.
Malcolm’s attorneys said in a filing they were seeking over $5 million in damages for the entire class. Although they didn’t know how many people were affected, dog food maker Nestle Purina has said 1.5 billion Beneful meals were served to dogs in 2014.
Nestle Purina didn’t immediately reply to a request for comment left Monday morning. In past statements, the company has said its own tests have shown the food to be safe, including batches tied to claims of pet deaths. In a statement made to Snopes in February, the company called the California suit “baseless” and said two similar lawsuits had been dismissed.
“Bottom line: Consumers can continue to feed Beneful with total confidence,” the company told Snopes.
Earlier in February, a California man named Frank Lucido filed a class-action suit against Purina with similar allegations about the dog food after three of his dogs fell ill and one later died. Nestle Purina Petcare Co., a subsidiary of the Swiss conglomerate Nestle, is based in St. Louis, Mo.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business...kBN/story.html

[QUOTE=Gilroy;880114]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

My close friend and professor at OVC told me that the best pet food was leftover people food mixed with good quailty kibble for roughage and fiber.

Raw is digested in 6 hours and kibble in 12 hours,that is why its not real good to mix.Some kibble is never fully digested and that is why dogs take a second crack at it in the form of stoles.

---

Now,I'm confused by what you mean as "raw". Leftover people food is already cooked,right? It's readily digested along with the kibble. Do you feed your dog raw food,as in blood-drippin' uncooked food?

Quote:

---

To support their claims, the attorneys offered 11 testimonials from pet owners culled from the Internet, as well as studies they claim prove the food to be toxic.

---

...LOL....wow that impressive evidence !!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

...LOL....wow that impressive evidence !!!

---

I figured you'd like that..LOL

All I can say is somebody better have something!

Purina stands firm that Beneful is a high-quality, nutritious food enjoyed by millions of dogs everyday...lol

https://www.beneful.com//frequently-asked-questions

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Did you factor into the math the time and gas for the drive to Quebec.

---

I lived 45 minutes away or would pay my buddy to pick my blocks of meat for $5.00 or $10.00 gas money.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

You probably missed post #35

I feed my dog raw and he is as healthy as a horse.There is no big learning curve.Raw chicken carcass in the morning and a big chunk of raw meat in the evening.Whats in the raw meat,dont really know,muscle,liver,heart,bit of lung.Throw in a raw egg once a week,cut grate some raw carrots,cut up some raw kale,a little fish oil.Its not rocket science

---

Regular house dog can be fed a regular raw diet as described to a degree. Mushers competing in distance or sprint would typically work from a recipe that a sports animal nutritionist developed along with viatim/mineral supplement. I have four recipes developed by a nutritionist depending on time of year and work load during training periods. Fat content would be adjusted as well as other ingredients depending on the weekly training schedule and calories needed to perform and maintain a healthy weight. Some dogs required another recipe because of the dogs metabolism and needed to be adjusted and were not fed the same as the other dogs. Knowing the animals on the team and working with an animal nutritionist makes all the difference in the world for performance animals. To say it's not rocket science is simply ignorance. Each dog is an individual and requires special attention to it's overall well being and diet plays a huge role. I have had dogs running up to age 14 and 15 in harness on these diets developed by nutritionist and other mushers I know of up to age 17.

[QUOTE=trimmer21;880268]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Now,I'm confused by what you mean as "raw". Leftover people food is already cooked,right? It's readily digested along with the kibble. Do you feed your dog raw food,as in blood-drippin' uncooked food?

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Yes I feed my dog blood drippin uncooked food and raw uncooked chicken carcasses.

The only comment from my vet each spring "wow what a healthy dog,followed by the question "what are you feeding him"

Its not rocket science because its simply common sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3wLTlqnMMg

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Its not rocket science because its simply common sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3wLTlqnMMg

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That's nothing new and that is why 20 years ago I fed raw and worked closely with a nutritionist. I prefer to feed a high quality kibble based on my many years of experience out of convenience and on how far the science of producing quality kibble diets have come. I know many old time racers that have fed raw going back fifty years. Raw works and so does kibble no one is disputing that one is much better than the other. Not all raw diets or kibble are created equal. I was at Pet Smart last week and took a peek at the small raw diet section in the store. A product they sell is called Vital and in that product line you can purchase various combinations such as Turkey and vegetable $18.99 for a 6lb tube and Bison and venison 6lb for $28.99. My Springer would require 3/4 lb based on the serving guideline for her weight but since her metabolism is very high because of her high drive more like 1lb a day. So if I feed the Turkey and vegetable mix at $18.99 plus tax for a 6lb tube would cost me $2.85 day. The Bison and Venison mix would be $4.28 day for a balanced raw diet. Not really sure what you are feeding for $1.50 day if this includes all the other essential vitamins and minerals needed on top of the meat. If so this would take you over the $2.00 a day cost. I feed Acana at $68.00 for a 28.6lb bag that last me 40 days would bring me to $1.75 day for one of the top dog foods produced today.

"I feed Acana at $68.00 for a 28.6lb bag that last me 40 days would bring me to $1.75 day for one of the top dog foods produced today."

What weight of dog are you feeding, I,am not sure if my guy could get by on 3/4lb of food a day?

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

"I feed Acana at $68.00 for a 28.6lb bag that last me 40 days would bring me to $1.75 day for one of the top dog foods produced today."

What weight of dog are you feeding, I,am not sure if my guy could get by on 3/4lb of food a day?

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My Springer is a light weight 35lbs and yes your dog would need to be fed more judging by his picture in your avatar. But with any highly quality kibble your still feeding less than a low end grocery store dog kibble.

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

My Springer is a light weight 35lbs and yes your dog would need to be fed more judging by his picture in your avatar. But with any highly quality kibble your still feeding less than a low end grocery store dog kibble.

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But probably not a lot more. That's the thing about high quality kibbles. I'm feeding 70lb Rhodesian Ridgebacks between 3/4lb and 1 lb per day. Fit and active. One races and lure courses with greyhounds. The other hunts and is an amazingly good cold nosed tracker. Both run for miles without tiring.

When I only had one I fed dehydrated raw. I was sold on raw but the dehydrated was for the convenience because we camp a lot for 7 to 8 months a year. The switch to Orijen was more cost effective in spite of it's per bag price.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

So I just weighted my buddy and he is pretty much right on 80lbs,he is either out walking about 7klms a day or jogging the same.In the Spring,summer and fall I would probably double that activity level as he is out most of the day running over the property.I would probably have to double your feeding costs which would not be good.As he is doing so good I will probably stick to the food he is on.

The ancana does look very good,I dont know how he would take to the rolled oats ingredient as grains seem to be past undoing.Thanks.

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Most Acana flavours are grain free. My dog also doesn't do well on foods with grain in them.

I'm pretty sure it's just their Regionals (4 flavours)that are grain free Terry. Maybe some of their singles are as well however.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

I'm pretty sure it's just their Regionals (4 flavours)that are grain free Terry. Maybe some of their singles are as well however.

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You're right. Didn't realize they had that many flavours.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I looked at the Ancana food for large dog breeds and rolled oats are right in there.

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http://www.acana.com/products/regionals/

The Acana regionals is a really nice mix of proteins but I went with the Acana Sport and Agility that has a slightly higher protein and fat. The Sport and Agility does have steel cut oats in it but its a really good high quality protein source. My Springer doesn't have any allergies to grain and so far her coat looks beautiful and is also maintaining her weight at 1 1/2 cups of food a day. I have some Glycocharge coming in the mail shortly to use on those long days training or hunting.

Why would anyone feed Beneful in the first place, especially after enlightening themselves on the "healthy and nutritious" ingredients printed right on the bag? I mean most people can't even pronounce half those ingredients. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to read the bag. I guess it's more convenient to buy the dog's food while you're already at the grocery store or Walmart, and it's cheap.


Dog Owners Alarmed at Beneful Lawsuit as Purina Denies Claims


Pet owners are wondering what's really going into their dog bowls.
After NBC News reported on a recent lawsuit claiming that Nestle Purina PetCare Company's Beneful dry kibble dog food contains toxins that may have killed thousands of dogs, readers across the country — via over 100 emails and scores of social media posts — voiced their concerns that the trusted brand may have harmed their pets as well.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...claims-n316856

Look at what this stuff is doing!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2985819/Dog-owners-horrific-effects-claim-Purina-Beneful-beloved-pets-including-violent-seizures-kidney-failure-cases-death.html

Don't know what else to say Rick. Just glad I don't feed it to my dogs and not have to worry about it.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Look at what this stuff is doing!

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You back to reading those internet testimonials Rick...LOL...

After years of testing the FDA and CDC has not found any prove of toxins (at a harmful level) in any of the cases it's investigated...I know I would side with the scientist before I'd side with an bereaving owner looking for someone to blame.

So until the FDA shuts down Purina...then 100's of thousands of dogs will continue to eat Purina products.

Can't let this thread die Mike. Lol. I knew you'd be back. LOL

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

I guess it's more convenient to buy the dog's food while you're already at the grocery store or Walmart, and it's cheap.

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Yes, on both accounts. I really like the Acana foods (the dogs like to eat it too:dog:), but I usually blend it 75/25 with Beneful to ease the wallet at bit. That also allows me to buy the 'standard' Acana blue bag, and adjust the Beneful flavour to change things up a bit for variety. That said, I do find the Acana foods to be a great value for their price point. The loyalty programs make it even better.

Both my dogs are currently on 100% Beneful for a while, because money was and is pretty tight - at least I know they like it. We'd tried several brands/flavours in between the price of Beneful and Acana or Orijen, and our dogs refused to eat most of them. It sure surprised me, since our male is food motivated for training. I thought he'd eat just about anything.

I did pick them up a bag of Science Diet T/d, and blend at 10-20% to help with their oral hygiene. I am surprised by how well that food works.

I'll start blending in the Acana again in June.

So you're mixing your acana with a little cardboard then. Lol. Sorry mooboy but Beneful is just crap no matter how you look at it although I understand your financial situation. There are still better alternatives than feeding a bag of chemical cereal filler to make them feel full. The neighbours garbage might be a good start.

Just for interests sake lets look at the ingredients of a couple of cheaper kibbles and a couple of better quality foods. I;m copying and pasting this since somebody's vet told them to feed PP Focus but they were feeding Puppy Chow. Puppy Chow is pretty much the same as Beneful:

Here are the ingredients of Pro Focus Large Breed Puppy (Chicken and Rice) -

Chicken, brewer's rice, corn gluten meal, whole grain corn, poultry by product meal (natural source of glucosamine), whole grain wheat, animal fat preserved with mixed tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), pea fiber, fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), dried egg product, animal digest, fish oil, calcium phosphate, salt, calcium carbonate, potassium citrate, L Lysine monohydrochloride, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, copper sulfate, garlic oil, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, Vitamin B 12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, calcium iodate, Vitamin D 3 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), folic acid, biotin, and sodium selenite

Here is the ingredients list from Puppy Chow -

Whole grain corn, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), soybean meal, egg and chicken flavor, brewers rice, barley, animal digest, calcium phosphate, fish oil, calcium carbonate, dried yeast, salt, potassium chloride, choline chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, Yellow 6, ferrous sulfate, DL-Methionine, Yellow 5, Red 40, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, Blue 2, copper sulfate, calcium pantothenate, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, Vitamin B-12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, Vitamin D-3 supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium iodate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite. Y-4001

Just for fun - let's look at the ingredients of two of the better foods available -

First, let's look at Orijen since most members here agree that it is just about the best commercial food available - their Large Breed Puppy contains -

Boneless chicken*, chicken meal, chicken liver*, whole herring*, boneless turkey*, turkey meal, turkey liver*, whole eggs*, boneless walleye*, whole salmon*, chicken heart*, chicken cartilage*, herring meal, salmon meal, red lentils, green peas, green lentils, chicken liver oil, sun-cured alfalfa, yams*, pea fibre, chickpeas, pumpkin*, butternut squash*, spinach greens*, carrots*, Red Delicious apples*, Bartlett pears*, cranberries*, blueberries*, kelp, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, Enterococcus faecium, Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, niacin, riboflavin, folic acid, biotin, Vitamin B12, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast

And Taste of the Wild's puppy - this is High Prarie -

Bison, lamb meal, sweet potatoes, egg product, pea protein, peas, potatoes, canola oil, tomato pomace, roasted venison, beef, flaxseed, potato fiber, natural flavor, ocean fish meal, salmon oil (a source of DHA), salt, choline chloride, dried chicory root, yucca schidigera extract, tomatoes, blueberries, raspberries, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bidobacterium lactis, Lactobacillus reuteri, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboavin (vitamin B2), vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

I think that you can see by looking at these ingredient lists which food is the better food and which food shouldn't be fed at all.


Now, I'll be honest - some dogs do just fine on Ol' Roy which has about as much nutritional value as paper but that doesn't mean you should feed it! Your best chance for a dog that lives a long healthy life is to start out feeding a high quality diet - much like you will live a longer healthier life if you eat fresh, quality foods instead of McDonald's daily.

Most of the Orijen and Acana lines of foods are about 75% meat. I think Purina Dog Chow probably contains about 5-10% meat? and that meat is just by-products....often rotten meat that is not sold in grocery stores, chickens that have died of disease, and and other 3-D meats (dead, dying and decayed), feathers, beaks and feet (waste from the chicken processors).

Bottom line is that your dog will most likely live eating Purina Dog Chow, or Beneful, or Pedigree....but they may not thrive.

People may ask what's wrong with corn?
Somehow---power of advertising? lack of critical thinking? taking what vets say about canine nutrition as gospel?--people think feeding corn, grains, and cereals to dogs is perfectly fine.



Would you feed your horse or pony buckets of meat and expect them to thrive?

I'm amazed this thread is still going. Makes me want to bash my head off something

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

So you're mixing your acana with a little cardboard then. Lol. Sorry mooboy but Beneful is just crap no matter how you look at it although I understand your financial situation. There are still better alternatives than feeding a bag of chemical cereal filler to make them feel full. The neighbours garbage might be a good start.

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Could be.

They've been exclusively on Beneful since the end of September; they are energetic, happy, urinating and defecating normally, and the female's coat has never been more luxurious to feel. I don't attribute the coat to Beneful, she practically did not shed during her first three years and is just growing into it, but her coat has not suffered either.

Maybe there are millions of dogs suffering in silence from us feeding these foods. You mentioned buying it at Walmart when picking up the groceries or other shopping. That is a good indicator that it is a seller; Walmart doesn't tolerate duds, and definitely would not allot two shelves of six feet to the product if it did not sell lots. That means that there are potentially tens of thousands of people buying Beneful for their dogs every week.

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Originally Posted by Sharon

The problem with these law suits is that , how do you prove it was the dog food? The lawyer for the plaintiff has to figure out how it was only the dog food that was the dependent variable in the deaths. Almost impossible to prove . He'/ she would have to prove that EVERY other variable was the same for EVERY dog. Good luck.
The defendant's lawyer will of course be able to provide thousands of dog owners who feed Beneful and have had no problems.

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From the FDA Jerky investigation, it seems it is quite difficult to prove it was the food.

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http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/.../ucm295445.htm
What were the findings of the 72 necropsies that were performed?

We are exceptionally grateful to the owners who consented to allow FDA to perform post-mortem examinations of their beloved pets. We understand this is a difficult decision to make and appreciate the opportunity to learn more about the potential cause of death.
The FDA performed necropsies on as many cases as possible in order to learn more about the cause of death, even when reported symptoms did not appear to be related to eating jerky pet treats. About 54 percent (39 dogs) were found to have died from identified causes such as widespread cancer, Cushing’s disease, mushroom toxicity, parvovirus enteritis, bacterial meningitis, abscess, pneumonia, cardiac lesions, infarcts, or internal bleeding secondary to trauma. In the remaining 33 dogs, no specific cause was identified and jerky pet treats could not be ruled out as contributing to the deaths. Twenty-six of these dogs had indications of kidney disease and two dogs had gastrointestinal disease.
Few of the necropsies (5 of 72) revealed indications of the FLS that has become the hallmark of the investigation, perhaps because some dogs diagnosed with FLS either improved or recovered with appropriate veterinary care and removal of the treats from the diet. Additionally, in three of the dogs who tested positive for FLS, the necropsies revealed causes of death unrelated to jerky pet treats.
Although the majority of the dogs reported as testing positive for FLS survived, and their FLS seemed to resolve once the treats are no longer fed, it is important to note that most of these cases also received veterinary care, including hospitalization, intravenous fluids, etc., during the duration of their illness.
We still have necropsy cases pending and will provide updates in future reports.

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In this kind of tort case, I think they are hoping Purina blinks first.