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This has been on the ood cover page at least three times. Notice anything funny about the picture?
http://www.oodmag.com/wp-content/upl.../DavidRock.jpg
×A teambuilding moment between David Rock and his boss, David Beilhartz. Rock bagged a young jake and Beilhartz got a 20.5-pound gobbler. They were hunting at Grey Bruce Outfitters in Walkerton.
image 1 of 8- See more at: http://www.oodmag.com/#share-1/0/DavidRock.jpg
Like the young jake? This was brought to the attention of the mods but you can see nothing was done about it. What do all the internet experts have to say about this picture posted by OOD themselves?
Ok what am i missing
If I can venture a guess the young jake doesn't appear jakish enough. Tail doesn't have the extended central tail feathers one would expect to see on a jake. Also the color is a bit off. One might say that looks more like a hen. Maybe just a misprint or mistaken Id as I think they may have taken a breaded hen for a jake. Feel free to correct me just my opinion to toss them the benefit of the doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by sambo
It's not a hen. Only males have black feather tips. As far as tail feathers go, I have shot jakes that have very little difference in their tail feather lengths. And I've shot jakes with a huge difference. Turkeys are like anything else, anomalties occur. It's pretty hard to tell without seeing the bird.....Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
the small one is missing his head ,D
The head is still there, just hard to see !Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchhunter
so what am I missing ,Dutch
No visible tags maybe?
One guy is smiling and one is not
Goose smasher please Help with the answer
No beard on the JAKE?
Only thing I see missing is a bbq, a broiler pan and some meat candy(bacon) wrapped around a yummy beer can turkey! Oh my, I think I just made myself very hungry! Savage308
What is suppose to be a jake looks more like a hem the colour is off to light to brown
Not sure what this means? I am looking at pics of a few fall hens I've shot and they look exactly like the smaller bird. They have black band on the tail fan if that what's you mean by black tips. I assume you are referring to the MNR identification tips in the hunting regs. Not a good idea to go by the "rules" those clowns give you. I mean if you look at these two birds I see a very clear lighter colour of brown or tan on the tips of the feathers past the black band. By the hunting regulation booklet that would mean two females lol.Quote:
It's not a hen. Only males have black feather tips.
I do agree however that it is hard to tell for sure. My guess would be the smaller bird is a hen but how does anyone know it isn't bearded and hence legal and tagged to boot? So worst case some journalist incorrectly referred to it as a young jake. Big deal.
in fact do we know it wasn't a fall hunt and that is a hen anyway? Whatever.......
Always good to show the beard in pictures you put up, a tag would be a requirement for posting a picture on this board.
Looks like a little bird, could be a jake with very little colour in the head and really young, but it could also be a hen. If it had a beard then nothing wrong there, my one spot has a hen with a 6in+ beard, I passed on it and took a jake last year, saw it during hunting season for deer this past fall and I will be trying to get it this coming spring.
We also had pictures of what looked like an antlered doe, weird things happen out there.
beard nothing. Tag nothing. Posting a picture to show off a successful hunt has ZERO obligation to prove to you or anyone else the kill was legal. Gotta love the internet.
People have been charged by the MNRF for not applying the game seal right after the kill and at the kill site due to pictures on the internet. If you put pictures on the internet you better understand that those pictures can be seen by everyone. You have an obligation to seal the game immediately after the kill and at the kill site if a seal needs to be applied to the game, that means before pictures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gern1980
The fall season is in mid october when all the leaves are still on the tree's so its not a fall picture. That "young jake" is a hen clear as day.
1. Brown feathers
2. Very small
3. Full round tail fan that is half the size of the tom
4.Look at the head! It has feathers right to the top. Just like a hen because it is a hen 100% no question about it.
If its a bearded hen why call it a "young jake"? Having shot more turkeys then most and done lots of guiding for many years it is clear that that is no jake.
[QUOTE=Fox;881040]Always good to show the beard in pictures you put up, a tag would be a requirement for posting a picture on this board.
Correct!
The use of pictures as evidence has some significant challenges when presented in Court and are only admissable under strict evidentury conditions and guidelines. By no means is it the "norm". Just because "tags" aren't visible doesn't mean they weren't applied properly. Just because there's no photographic evidence that shows they were properly applied,there can be no inference that they weren't,either,by the same token. It must be proven by other means in order for a charge to be laid. There's nothing showing the date,either. This could have been a fall hunt where any gender may be taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
You have to prove that the game seal was applied immediately after the kill and at the kill site, if the CO decides to charge you with not doing such based on a picture then you are SOL. It is not the norm to nail normal every day people, but if someone complains, even legally killed animals who have not been sealed properly can gain the attention of the MNRF. If you have someone on your facebook, twitter, instagram, online forums, who do not have the same view as you then you may just happen to run into this problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
This is one of the reasons this requirement is set in the rules of this board. They will not support something illegal or possibly illegal, without proof of a legal harvest you may not be legal and therefore you cannot post a picture here.
In the spring most people on here show pictures of both the bird and the tag of the bird, unless you are MikePal, he just showed the plucked turkey in a roasting pan :).
If the Turkey legs without tags applied were in the picture,I would agree,but,they're not. Because of that,there's no evidence that they weren't properly tagged. Therefore,from the photos,no evidence exists,so,no charge can be laid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Fall turkey season is in mid october when the leaves are still on the tree's. No leaves on the tree's in that picture.
Definitely not a hen. Enlarge the picture, the tips of the feathers are clearly black with irredescent sheen. Males have black tipped feathers and females have buff or brown tips. I spent a lot of hours in a tent with a MNRF biologist doing trap and transfer, and I've handled a lot of live birds. Definitely not a hen ! Maybe that's why they haven't done anything about your concerns !Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose smasher
I agree, you do not need to show evidence of the game seal, but it is a good idea to show proof as it removes all doubt. Taking a picture of a buck with no seal on the antler is an easy one, turkeys are not so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
To me it looks like a hen, the head can be seen and it is very dark. It would not matter if there were a beard in the spring or a fall hunt, but if it was a hen why would they say it was a jake?
Huh !!!!! The last I heard the burden of proof lies with the crown !Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Exactly Rick Isles!!!! Man I laugh at all this internet perspective. Ya probably spring. Ya I think it might be a hen. Ya I am guessing some clown doesn't know the difference between a young jake and a hen. Maybe Rick is right and it is a jake. Other than that I think it's a nice picture. End of story.
The only way that would happen if if some idiot actually did something wrong and an INVESTIGATION determined there was a violation. If a picture was the catalyst to initiate the investigation then fine BUT it is up to them to prove something.Quote:
People have been charged by the MNRF for not applying the game seal right after the kill and at the kill site due to pictures on the internet. If you put pictures on the internet you better understand that those pictures can be seen by everyone. You have an obligation to seal the game immediately after the kill and at the kill site if a seal needs to be applied to the game, that means before pictures.
Let me give you a scenario: Guy shoots deer in US on game farm where there is no tag. Guy then comes home to Ontario and like so many internet gurus, wants to feel special and important on that Huntonatrio forum where he posts all the time so he puts up his pic and say "hey I got me dandy". he tells a wonderful tale of hunting Simcoe County Forest Publci land and still hunhting this big buck and killing him. Pure BS. Pic shows no tag and the deer sitting in the back of the truck. MNR shows up at his door because they think they have proof of infraction. What is the guy guilty of? What do they charge him with? Lying to his internet buddies to try and make himself look cool?
Heck go the other way. Guy poaches an animal illegally and puts it on the board. MNR shows up at his house becuase of a complaint. Guy says he just put a picture he photoshopped or took from two years ago in a different location so he could look cool to his internet buddies. What do they charge him with? Lying to his internet buddies to look cool? Course not! Now if they INVESTIGATE and find something concrete then THAT is why he is charged. Not because of a dam pic on the internet.
I was told by the examiner for my turkey license that if a hen has a beard she's fair game, I have met women with a mustache.
Yep, too many petty azzed Crown lawyers here for some people to post kill or fish pics. So on one hand you have the outsiders(like the antis trying to hassle and ruin hunting, like those CoyHunter posted about a few years back)and the insiders here doing the same.
Well said.....and it isnt lost on me that it is criticsm of pic from an Ontario guiding operation from someone who has been "guiding for many years" and feels the need to declare "has killed more than most" lol
What exactly qualifies one to know that they have killed more than most? Compared to those clients guided? Well I woukd hope so. Compared to the camp I hunt in Kentucky? Uh hum. Me thinks not. Every time i think I have it figured out and have killed "more than most" I go hunt with those fellas and get humbled real quick.
When the focus is on whos is bigger I guess you scrutinize internet or magazine pics for different reasons.
I dunno what to say. I know you're adamant the bird on the right's a hen but about 13 years ago I was at a weighing a bird at a weigh station in Grey County and a fella showed up with a puny and I mean puny tom that looked a lot like the bird in the pic. It had about a 6-7" beard and I think it tipped the scales at a whopping 13.** lbs. Without being there who's to say for sure...
from the regulations, it states in the spring, 1 bearded wild turkey per license, does not specify it has to be a jake or a tom, so, so long as it had a beard it was legal game. so maybe they made a mistake and called it a jake, the internet police corrected him, and yet another guide calling down a sucessfull hunter for taking legal game on this forum...
42, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66A, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83A, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95 Residents and non-residents April 25 to May 31, 2014
Residents and non-residents April 27 to May 31, 2015
One bearded wild turkey per licence
Two licences per hunter maximum.
The two birds may not be taken on the same day
Legal, fair chase game fishy steve. This is still no place for penned in, tame, game farm animals to be profiled, regardless of what the pic is like or how great the animal may be. A good ole Ontario turkey double picture is all this is. Although im not a fan of posing as if your giving it a proctology exam lol
Yep!! You can find some of them in the Cougar thread.LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by DGM999
I believe this is wrong. The CO would have to prove that you did not tag the animal immediately and at the kill site.
Also, any reasonable person would have a hard time arguing that this picture is for sure not at the kill site...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
who cares if its a bearded hen, jake, tom, squirrel or possum. he harvested a bird and in a little over a month you guys can all try your hand at it too
After careful examination of this photo I can confidently state that Oswald did not act alone. There was another shooter on the grassy knoll. Hard to determine if it was the teamsters or the Russians but I'm pretty certain it was a conspiracy.
Nope,it was the Mafia with aid from Fidel.:whacked:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregoire1960
If you have a picture of something that should have a seal visible (like a deer antler or ear) and it does not have a game seal that right there is proof that you did not attach the game seal immediately after the kill and at the kill site, it proves you took a picture first.Quote:
Originally Posted by sullyy
People have been charged for this in the past, forums are sure to make sure that photos where the game seal should be visible have them visible.
The concern was that the photo says jake with no identifying items that point it out as a jake. The tail is straight and there is no real colour in the head. The OP has brought up the picture asking if anyone else sees an issue with the picture, a number of people on here have seen concerns but unless they have other information they cannot prove anything.
The seal in the picture question was asked about posting pictures with no proof of sealing, pictures are not allowed on the forum that are questionable but the OFAH does not seem to be concerned about it with their magazine or website.
If you party hunt and your buddy has the tag and is not at the site yet, haven't move the deer and someone take a picture of you and the deer, you have not done anything against the law.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
So true, and so sad.....Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot
I think bottom line who cares!!!looks like a legal bird to me and unless anyone was there it should look the same to them as well. We have all been there maybe it was his first and posed with excitement before throwin a tag on, maybe its a bearded hen(still legal)....maybe it is a pygmy tom....at the end of the day its the shooters bird (trophy) and one can only assume everything was done legal and shouldnt lose sleep over it.
Arguing over crap shoot pics with missing info is irrelavant and makes it very hard for anyone to enjoy others success or want to post pics of your own sucess for fear someone over analyzes everything.Instead as fellow hunters maybe just take the time to congratulate them on their sucess and leave the missing details and the story to those that were truly there.
That is up for interpretation.Quote:
Originally Posted by seabast
Immediacy is what is key here, you are not to do anything with the animal before it has the seal applied, the CO will determine if they want to charge you, posting online increases exposure which can increase issues.
ohhhhh now I see whats the funny part of the pic.............its the big s$%t eating grin on the guys face prob from shooting what he considers to be a trophy lol ya that is funny now.
If someone decided to shoot a bearded hen then good for them,its legal. Why call it a young jake?
I've held small jakes in my hands before that weighed as little as 12.5 pounds and they still had a jake tail fan. In fact it was even more pronounced.
I once shot a two year old tom that only weighed 15.1 pounds and his fan looked like a toms fan.
Jakes have jake fans and that includes every province and state and sub species of turkey's that I've hunted.
If its a bearded hen the congratulations to the hunter but why call it a "young jake"?
Disagree if you want too but why call something something that its not?
Hey Fox why you still going on with this silly argument? How come you did not comment on my scenarios? How does a Co, internet expert, or you, know anything about the REAL circumstances of a pic on the internet?
NO ONE....I repeat NO ONE has ever been charged based on a pic from the internet. I have a CO sitting here with me chuckling his arse off at that suggestion. 100% of the time they have other information and may use a pic to help them in thier investigation but if someone calls and all they have to report is a pic on the internet then that is the end of that. Usually they have an idea of who the local idiots are and sometimes those idiots will make thier job easier with pictures and social media but that is but one aspect in building cases.
We are also required to use the meat and it is an offense to allow game to spoil. Now in every article that I have read on what to do to preserve your kill, the first thing that they tell you to do is to field dress the animal, especially if the ambient temperature is warm or there is a chance the animal was gut shot. I have not and will not stand around and look at the animal while waiting for the tag to show up when party hunting when I could be gutting. The animal is never moved from the kill site until tagged though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Personally, I always ensure that I take a couple of photos where the tag is visible including a close up to show the date notches cut. If a CO were to lay charges against me for not having a tag affixed to the bird because it's not visible in a picture posted on line I could produce several other photos that prove otherwise.
Really ? So a group are party hunting with one tag, the shooter can be over 30 minutes travel time from the tag holder or much more, and can still be well within the legal distance requirements, due to block layouts, road access etc. All requirements for party hunting are met. Are you telling us the animal cannot be field dressed ! I think what you meant was that the animal cannot be TRANSPORTED without the tag affixed ! The shooter can legally take pictures, position the animal for field dressing, field dress or even snuggle up to it if he chooses, while waiting for the tag to arrive !!!! CO's know full well that "immediately after the kill" is an impossibility in some party hunting scenarios. Give them a bit of credit !Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
This is the last thing I am going to say.
It is interpretation of the law. This is up there with being 15 and hunting within "immediate supervision".
Do what you want, if a CO charges you for something that you do not think they should feel free to go fight it in court.
You cannot legally take a picture of a game animal before applying the game seal if the laws are taken literally. If you position the deer for field dressing and it has to be moved then you are transporting it, be that inches, but you are transporting it.
The OP saw an issue with a picture being a hen in what looks like the spring with a description being that of a jake. It seems to be like the description is there to cover up the fact that this is a hen, and there is no indication that the hen has or does not have a beard. It may be a 100% legal kill but the point of the post was to ask the question to see if anyone else saw an issue with it.
The amount of crap that comes down from someone who shoots a duck, that they know is legal to shoot but not exactly sure of what type it is, just what it is not, why do the same people come back and say that covering up what was shot is just peachy.
Do what you want, take pictures of everything.
If you take a picture before the game as the seal attached could potentially be considered by some to be illegal, hence why forums like this ban photos where proof of sealing big game is not allowed.
I see you have dodged my post Fox. Hard to argue with common sense and logic eh?
Hey goose smasher i am surprised given that you have "killed more rhan most" you have never killed a jake with pretty well a full fan. It is possble. Have seen a couple and shot one like that myself.
As have I ! They are not that uncommon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gern1980
maybe he thought it was a jake, since it had a beard... maybe it was a jake, he was hunting with a outfitter, perhaps somebody who has shot even more birds then u claim to have...Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose smasher
bottom line is, if you have a problem with his picture, bring it up with him, a quick internet search last night and i was able to tell you what town the guy lived in and where he worked...
sad thing is, now it would appear we have ran out of people willing to share pictures of their succefull hunts on here, so now we are critizing pictures of people who never asked for a opinion in the 1st place. jeezus, maybe we can go back to argueing over walleye vs pickeral.
on the note of the non visible tag... yes its unfornutate the tag didnt make it into a great picture, im sure the mnr would love to here your concerns on a picture that you cant see the turkeys legs, im sure they will drop all moose poaching investigations, to pursue it... looking at the picture we can also assume he was trespassing on private property, he shot the bid with #8 shot, and his boss took his with a pellet gun...
Come on how pathetic has this become. I will admit I have moved game before putting my tag on it. I had a turkey crumple in a bush and I pulled it out and then put my seal on it. I have carried a turkey 20 feet back to my back pack to get my seal out of the back pack and then put it on there leg. I really don't think a CO would say anything to anyone. He would have to be the biggest dcik to fine someone for that. Now driving in the car or transporting it or moving it to a totally different area or something ok that's wrong. But moving it a couple of feet. I had a deer fall in a creek do you really think my first priority was to tag it or pull it out of the creek to a workable place then tag it. You know who ever said it was 100% right. I will not be posting any pics on this form. I will be to scared. You'll have guys like FOX totally inspect every inch of it to see if he can catch someone doing something wrong. Pathetic
I love it when guys come on here and claim how much of a turkey slayer they are and go on about a rant. How about showing us some beards and Spurs.. There is only one person I know that can lay claim to have killed birds more than most and we all know his name. He too has shot a small jake that would rival the pic in question. Just sayin.
The scenario of which you speak happens quite often on here. I think it's more jealousy than anything. "Oh his buck is bigger the doe I shot so I think Iil try and belittle him to make myself look better" sort of $#!+. As hunters we should be supporting one another, not bickering over the little things like senseless ninnies!Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Gunner
I have a bit different take on the OP.
I think the main point would be if we have posts here removed because of lack of a tag in the photo why are we putting tag free or questionable photos in a magazine?
Double standard for the "important" folks kind of thing. And if that is the case I kind of agree. However I will not destroy the first photo of an animal and take away from the natural beauty of the hunt by plastering a big green sticker to it. If that offends you there's plenty of rocks out there that are in need of a kicking.
technically though its a rule of the forum, not of the magazine... rule probably came about it prevent mindless bickering... who woulda thunk... if you all are in a kurpuff over this dont go back to 2014-15 hunting annual... theres a few pics in it, with no tag present... 3 of them turkeys... maybe i shouldnt have said that, probably gonna give a few people a bloody anerism...
I enjoy the hunting and fishing in two countries. It's just easier with different game rules between the two not to post any kind of kill shot or fish stringer. With the deer season from Oct-Feb and a deer a day, no tag, and no closed seasons on any fish, it would stroke some of the wannabe Crown attorneys out.
Why all the.......... was he tagged IMMEDIATELY, was the safety on, was the gun pointing at his head or was it the angle of the photo,was it day or night, OMG is that gun uncased, check the background, might be out of season, where's his orange if it is an immediate kill photo, oops what WMU is that, don't you need a tag/seal up there?
And on that particular day not a single fack was given................
Must be cabin fever getting to the forum members... LOL
Maybe take a break from the forum & go ice fishing & don't forget to take some photos... :)
I've been on both sides of this story. Recently on another forum someone posted a good size bass that he caught while ice fishing on Simcoe. Comment nice picture how also referred him to this years regs that the ministry placed extra emphasis on the management of out of season fish going so far as highlighting it in red. Now I'm sure they are not scouring the net looking for pictures however there is a reason they did it and like speeding one day there may be a blitz so if you choose too do it don't cry after because you got a ticket. Not to get off tract while back posted this picture with a story how my bud and I got an opening day simultaneous double.
Attachment 28809
Had some one comment that you are allowed too shot only one turkey a day.
Responded by asking who he thought took the picture? God?
Never did get a response back
Sometimes its fun to post something just for the comments back, I've learned don't take anything here too seriously.
Nice couple of birds there ! I think one is a hen ......sorry, just kidding ! It must have been darn cold turkey hunting in the snow ! I only had to endure one opener in the snow......but still well worth the wait !Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
Really? They better come and lock me up. I took this two seasons ago. Shot this buck in the neck right below my stand. I didn't have to move to take it and I wasn't getting down as I was still hunting in a party. Come on now you are getting a little carried away with this. Attachment 28812Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Shhhhh! He's really just sleeping.Quote:
Originally Posted by rippin_355
First thought that came to my mind was that it was a hen. Maybe it has a beard, I have a hen mount at home, the bird got hit by a car so I skinned it out to use as a decoy for next season. Think I'll give that tail a second look.
You would hope no one was stupid enough to post a hero pick with a spring hen. Hens get shot by mistake no doubt but you don't go taking pics of them if they do. If someone does well then they are just plain stupid.
not getting in on this one.. lol