atv shoping used

After looking for several weeks and seeing many different types and configurations I am left with the same confusion as when I started, as to what would be actually needed for our situation. I have seen what could be a great deal or not. but here is the scenario. we have between 3ooo and 3500 to spend It would be for an adult who has never ridden before. Would be used at the cottage about twenty to forty hours a year for hunting on narrow trails or no trail and to pull out the odd log to junk up for fire wood. and just to get to the cottage in winter or ice fishing once in a while. I have been looking at the 400 to 500 cc type 4x4 atv with winch, beyond that I would have not much more knowledge. Don't want any thing with all the do dads that could be expensive to replace if broken but don't mind some, if it would be easer to ride such as power steering or shifting. but not necessary if we can get by.
So I am once again, asking you all what your experience and ideas have been over the years of learning and riding. Thanks all Don

Find a used honda 420 in good shape. There big enough but not too big.

Thanks GuyJR they seemed about the right size

Although Hondas are good most products, their ATV's are old technology along with low ground clearance. Stick with the reliable models such as Yamaha or Kawasaki. Avoid Polaris and Arctic Cat like the plague. Anything in the 400-500cc range will suffice to get you around and tow your firewood.

If you can find a 2000-2002 Polaris 500 you would be doing ok. easy to shift and handle Put mudlite tires on it and the bike will go places you never thought. We had 2 but got out of ATV's until we decided to hunt. I now own a little Honda 250 4 trax, 2 wheel drive, light as a feather but it has a kick start.( my biggest issue is tires/ boy does my bike need tires) Yamaha Kodiak 400, dependable. Suzuki also makes a very dependable bike. Make sure it is an automatic whichever you get, a winch is a must but just so you don't forget, make damn certain you can pull start the bike if the battery fails. Last thing you want is to push it home off the lake on a cold day. Savage308

Thanks Fisherman I did not want to go with arctic cat even to me they look cheap. The Honda I figured would be good for reliability and basic I had been looking at the Polaris sportsman as there were quite a few of them. I believe MikePal suggested a king Quad last year but I think they mite have to many things on it that would make it expensive to repair.. So can you tell me about the Polaris that is not good.

I have 4500 hard km's on my Cat, and I'd get another one, so opinions aren't worth much unless you've had one and put it through the paces, and it will go where your small hondas and yamahas won't. Just about everyone can claim they've seen a bike from every other brand break down. I sure have. The Honda and Yamaha loyalty here kinda reminds me of the sheeple that buy nothing but Toyota. They're no better than the rest, and they have their issues too.

Search threads for everytime someone has asked about getting an ATV and every thread is identical with the same people saying the same thing.


Personally, I wouldn't touch a Polaris. I've seen more issues with those than any other brand.

That's two negatives about Polaris funny I had been leaning towards them as well as the Hondas now not so sure, as far as the arctic cats go I have not really seen any actual reviews on them to make a good judgment. as others have said the Suzuki's and Yamahas seem to shine a bit more than the rest

I bought a Honda foreman 450 4x4 in 2003..used it for moose hunting..bird hunting and deer hunting..It seems to be big enough to get the job done and small enough to get in and outta the bush..no problems with it..put some decent tires on it and away you go..it is manual shift with reverse and a winch and a selector for 2 wheel and 4 wheel drive.Great machine..Also put a plow on it for doing the drive way..Good luck in finding the perfect one..This is just my 2 Cents worth..

Severn Don, you have a PM.

Have owned both Honda and Suzuki and now have a 97 Honda foreman I bought new. Old school yes and that's good as I can fix most concerns myself. Haven't had much problems with it except the clutch slipped within a month of owning it and dealer fixed it and has been trouble free since. I know guys with Polaris that absolutely love them and others that wish they never seen them. Don't know enough about the others as I don't know anyone that owns one. As for buying a used one go with your gut on them. Does it look rode hard put away wet? Run away fast, does it look well taken care of? Might be your next best purchase. Try it out, go thru all the gears, look at the air filter and air box to see what's in it to see what's in it. If liquid cooled check the rad for repairs or damage. Check the belly skid plates to see for damage from hitting something hard. Main question would be why is it being sold? Just don't use it, want new, or want to get away from the problems. Best of luck

I own an artic cat currently, just a small bike 366 , it replaced a fully wore out 96 big bear , honestly I've not had any major issues with my cat but there is a pile of little fit and finish stuff , it rides much nicer then the big bear due to independent rear suspension and has selectable 4x4 , but is not a good cold starter and does not like large amounts of deep wet snow , the big bear on the other had was a no frills full time 4x4 with a solid axle and was pretty much unstoppable water and snow wise , much simpler built machine and no electronic stuff to worry about and had a pull cord which my cat doesn't , fuel mileage is pretty much a toss up and I was surprised at not getting a little more out of my newer bike , my buddies 450 Kodiak puts mine to shame range wise with The same fuel capacity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trappermatt

I own an artic cat currently, just a small bike 366 , it replaced a fully wore out 96 big bear , honestly I've not had any major issues with my cat but there is a pile of little fit and finish stuff , it rides much nicer then the big bear due to independent rear suspension and has selectable 4x4 , but is not a good cold starter and does not like large amounts of deep wet snow , the big bear on the other had was a no frills full time 4x4 with a solid axle and was pretty much unstoppable water and snow wise , much simpler built machine and no electronic stuff to worry about and had a pull cord which my cat doesn't , fuel mileage is pretty much a toss up and I was surprised at not getting a little more out of my newer bike , my buddies 450 Kodiak puts mine to shame range wise with The same fuel capacity.

---

Not that there's anything wrong with your bike (they actually have a great track record) but your 366 is not truly a Cat. It's made by a Chinese company. Kymco or something like that. Only the 400's and up are true Cats made in the USA.
Some say the fit and finish isn't quite the same as the real Cats.

There is only one AC in our camp and it's been the worst lemon possible. Buy a Honda or Yamaha and odds are it will be passed on to your children. They may not have the best suspension but are dead nuts reliable. With ATV'S knowing it will get you home everytime trumps a smooth ride everytime. I run a 350 Big Bear and have dragged out moose whole. No need for more machine if hunting is the intended purpose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Not that there's anything wrong with your bike (they actually have a great track record) but your 366 is not truly a Cat. It's made by a Chinese company. Kymco or something like that. Only the 400's and up are true Cats made in the USA.
Some say the fit and finish isn't quite the same as the real Cats.

---

Yes I know it's an artic cat designed bike built by kymco , Most don't know how much of their stuff was built by one manufacturer under the name of another

i have a 04 arctic cat 400 , its been pretty reliable , rides a bit stiff and its really good on fuel i usually get about 50 to 70 km's more than my brothers polaris 500 on the same trip

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trappermatt

Yes I know it's an artic cat designed bike built by kymco , Most don't know how much of their stuff was built by one manufacturer under the name of another

---

Its funny this was brought up, Polaris really pushes the "Made in the USA" with thier bikes and I know first hand how untrue that is. In a plant that I worked in we manufactured the molds for the body plastics for thier 700 and 500 machines and then in our mold shop we injected the parts for manufacturing. We then had to put made in USA stickers on them and box up the parts to ship from Canada to there assembly plant. We also got a discount to purchase a new quad directly from Polaris, one co worker bought the smaller machine ( can't remember the size possible 300 or close) and it was made over seas not in the USA. Even the molds that we built here in ontario had to be stamped made in USA. When question about the integrity and legality of this we were told to do it and not to question it. How many other companies do this? Probly loads. So we can't beleve everything we see

My understanding is that Polaris is made in Mexico.

Arctic cat is definitely made in the USA. They're made at the Cat plant in Minnesota.
That being said my 08 has a Suzuki King quad motor but Cat started using strictly all their own engines in 09.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

My understanding is that Polaris is made in Mexico.

Arctic cat is definitely made in the USA. They're made at the Cat plant in Minnesota.
That being said my 08 has a Suzuki King quad motor but Cat started using strictly all their own engines in 09.

---

yes you are correct about Mexico I didn't realize they moved in 2010. When I was involved was back 2000 - 2003

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gooseman

yes you are correct about Mexico I didn't realize they moved in 2010. When I was involved was back 2000 - 2003

---

Can Am went that route for most of their ATV's as well. They're 'assembled' in Mexico.

Why are there so many Polaris' for sale and so few Hondas? You can come up with the answer to that one.
You don't need great big mud tires. They're rough riding for one and totally unnecessary for camp use.
My Honda 350 does everything I ask of it. Its used for bear baiting, bringing in firewood, hunting and work around camp. And it has way over 30 thou kms on it.
4 wheel independent suspension gives you a nice comfortable ride. The bigger you go the easier to get stuck and the harder to get unstuck. Go ahead, try to lift a 500 cc quad out of a mud hole.
Suzuki, Honda and Yamaha are the machines to look at. The others I would stay away from.

I have a 02 sportsman 400, would buy another been very good to me.

sawbill those are the ones I have narrowed down for looking at.

Anything in the 350-500cc range will serve you fine. A 500 MAY be overkill, depending on what you actually end up doing with it. I have seen a 420 honda pull a 425 Polaris six wheeler, a 12' aluminum boat on a trailer, 9.9 outboard, other gear and three adults up a steep hill until the lost traction. Of the hill was paved, he would have made it. As a result, we dropped the trailer and two adults, pulled the Polaris up, went back for the boat, hooked everything back up and made it back to base.

The Polaris was out of commission because the main drive chain snapped. Something to consider if looking at an older machine. I believe the newer ones are shaft drive.

You will want to put a winch on if what you buy doesn't have one, especially with a new rider, they will probably not have the skills and experience to pick the easier route much of the time.

i have an '05 Honda 500 that I bought from my father in law. It has 10000km on it now and no sign of slowing down. My buddy has a 450? Suzuki about the same age. Again, good machine. Stay away from the Chinese bikes AT ALL COSTS. Don't even consider them. My wife bought me my first quad brand new in '06. $3000 from CTC. Warranty was 90 days. It has been a repair nightmare. I finally got rid of it 2 weeks ago. I spent from early September '13 to late September '14 looking for a brake drum and the design was such that without the drum, the back wheel could not be attached. I replaced the drum and then it wouldn't start. You get what you pay for and it is not much on those bikes.

Honda, yamaha, suzuki are all good, proven designs. Polaris and Cats for casual users. Cannot speak for CanAm.

For work and hunting I am all about Hondas with the Yamaha a close second ,but for play I have a 650 Baja.bombaardier,love that thing but no reverse only two wheel drive ton of fun. , dutch

As others said Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki. In your price range stick with an air cooled, geared transmission, solid rear axle. Less things to worry about. Look for abuse on a machine, leaks, cracks on frame/paint bent pieces. Part of the hassle is driving around looking at these machines since you don't want to buy something over the phone, and photos don't show everything. My workhorse is a 2000 Honda foreman 450es. My trail riding machine is a 2005 suzuki King quad.

Thank you for all the good info guys, its good to get from actual users. As well as to be able to narrow the choices down. It makes looking for the right one so much easier.

When it comes to atvs, I'm a fan of all things Japanese. My experience and observations lead me to believe they are superior in durability and reliability. Just my opinion, which is what you were asking for.

Loads of various advice, as a former director and trail builder for 2 ATV clubs I saw them all. Every bike from Japanese and Chinese builds to Canadian made. Considering you are using it so little, pull or kick start is a must, winch is a must. I won't mention what brand I towed the most, but I will say this, nothing over a 500cc is needed, every brand has it's flaws and every brand if you are a rookie can potentially kill you. Take a course from a local club if you have one nearby, all dealers know where to find one. Never drive without a helmet.Savage308

I have a Polaris sportsman 700 2003. It's a good bike and is good to me. I think in the future it.will start to get expensive although I have religiously maintained, lubed, and cleaned it. I run premium gas and seafoam as it only runs a few times a month.

The biggest downside for me is it doesn't have lube nipple installed. I had to tap them in to make life easy.

Overall the bike is far to big. I make all my trails wider. I never realize it's power potential except for maybe pulling wood on occasion. My wife won't drive it on the trails as it can be hard for her. It's like a Honda civic in the bush.

My next bike will be under 500. I would like Yamaha or Honda but I will see where funds are.

A mechanic told me if you can maintain and repair your own bike don't hesitate on Polaris. If you can't go HO or yammy.

Bought a new 600 Polaris eleven years ago. Run tracks in the winter, factory tires in the summer. If you install mud tires and go looking for a challenge then you will have problems with most any make sooner or later. I have blown a couple of belts over the years and now carry a spare, but anyone can hop on and drive without learning how to use a clutch and gears.
Around here the bike gets used 12 months of the year, often by visitors. My next bike will be a smaller (500) Polaris....

dad is selling a 2002 Honda rubicon fourman 500 .4x4 with all the goodys .let me know if you want more info Dutch

I always get a kick out of reading the threads having to do with Opinion. How 1 brand is better then the other, how so many cc's is better then another amount and the classic one about guys saying they pull moose out of the bush with their small-mid size quad without help....

Here's what I can tell you. At our moose camp we have Honda's, Yamaha's, Suzuki and Arctic Cat. No one has ever experienced an issue with their quad.

Some guys don't do any work with theirs and some guys do all the work. Half the bikes are road queens...

No one, weather big quad or small quad has the ability to pull an adult moose out of the bush we hunt on their own. Hell I can pull a moose down a gravel road with a rope around my waist but that to me doesn't qualify as bush... I posted video about this last year and asked other guys to do the same, no one did...

You can never go wrong with more power so in my mind, bigger is better. Regardless of how big you go, your quad will still fit in the bed of your truck.

The limitations of where a quad can and can't go versus another quad is usually determined by 3 factors. Tires, horsepower and 4x4 capability.

As for longevity, I believe it comes down to how the machine was treated as opposed to who made it.... Every quad will fail under certain circumstances....

If I was in your shoes I'd really focus on the condition of the machine to see how it's been used and do a compression test and a road test. I would put a lot more merit on those guidelines then who made the machine...

one thing i would suggest is power steering , i wish i had it on mine , next machine i buy will have it for sure

If you want to see some quads working go to page 2 and click on my videos....

http://www.oodmag.com/community/show...moose!!!/page2

I've pushed small bikes out of holes lots. One time buddy got stuck in his Kawi in a deep hole. His son tried pulling him out with a Yamaha 350. It wouldn't budge. I pulled him out with my 700 like it wasn't even there. He is on this board and can confirm this if he reads this.

There's definitely a difference in capabilities between small and large bikes but as they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink..lol.

I have a friend on this forum with a brand new Honda just over 400 cc's. Small Honda doesn't compare to my ac700 in snow or on ice. the reason? I have better tires and way more power.... It has nothing to do with the makes of the machines...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeffBondar

The limitations of where a quad can and can't go versus another quad is usually determined by 3 factors. Tires, horsepower and 4x4 capability.

---

You know I have to recommend a 3 wheeler! Those 3 factors are great, but a trike will have a much smaller turning radius, doesn't need 4x4 and will take alot less room in the bed of your truck. For hunting woods without trails, many will agree a 3 wheeler is your best choice.

Find a shaft driven Honda BigRed if you can, they can haul quite a bit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeffBondar

I always get a kick out of reading the threads having to do with Opinion. How 1 brand is better then the other, how so many cc's is better then another amount and the classic one about guys saying they pull moose out of the bush with their small-mid size quad without help....

Here's what I can tell you. At our moose camp we have Honda's, Yamaha's, Suzuki and Arctic Cat. No one has ever experienced an issue with their quad.

...

---

Well, sorry to bust your bubble but I have done it several times with a Yamaha Big Bear 350. One time on a particular large cow we had to actually sit a guy on the front rack to keep the front end down. It was a bit hairy but we got the moose out across a cut to the road. All you need is traction and with ITP Mudlites there is plenty of that. Choose to believe what you want but someday you may accumulate enough experience to even do it yourself.......:rolleye:
In fact many years ago we actually dragged moose with 2 wheel drived Honda Big Red trikes and I think they were only 250cc but that is a long time ago I forget and it wasn't my bike. By all means do carry on with your "experience" though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

Well, sorry to bust your bubble but I have done it several times with a Yamaha Big Bear 350. One time on a particular large cow we had to actually sit a guy on the front rack to keep the front end down. It was a bit hairy but we got the moose out across a cut to the road. All you need is traction and with ITP Mudlites there is plenty of that. Choose to believe what you want but someday you may accumulate enough experience to even do it yourself.......:rolleye:
In fact many years ago we actually dragged moose with 2 wheel drived Honda Big Red trikes and I think they were only 250cc but that is a long time ago I forget and it wasn't my bike. By all means do carry on with your "experience" though.

---

Where's the proof? Did you even look at the videos I posted? It is at times impossible to drive with an empty quad let alone with a 1000# moose attached. Like I said, "the bush" for me is not a gravel road. "The bush" would not allow for someone to sit on the front rack. You claims are however enjoyable to read, like a 1/2 tonne pulling an 18 wheeler rig down the highway....

Me thinks you made your point, however not all of us need to or want to drive an Arctic Crap 700.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fisherman

Me thinks you made your point, however not all of us need to or want to drive an Arctic Crap 700.

---

You never hear them saying that when they need to be hauled out though.:tongue:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

You never hear them saying that when they need to be hauled out though.:tongue:

---

LOL, no doubt.....

We are entitled to our own opinions, I choose not to take advice from "Fisherman"

Sorry JB, usually I agree with your posts but this time you'll have to put me on the list of non--believers as well. I've been there with the small vs. big and have pulled moose and countless bears from the bush with my Hondas 300 and my 350. First off, with moose I don't drag--I quarter and put them on the racks to keep them clean. I did drag a few moose though-- train kills and I dragged them with the old 225 Yamaha along the track bed for 2 miles. They are amazing machines if you keep your expectations reasonable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sawbill

Sorry JB, usually I agree with your posts but this time you'll have to put me on the list of non--believers as well. I've been there with the small vs. big and have pulled moose and countless bears from the bush with my Hondas 300 and my 350. First off, with moose I don't drag--I quarter and put them on the racks to keep them clean. I did drag a few moose though-- train kills and I dragged them with the old 225 Yamaha along the track bed for 2 miles. They are amazing machines if you keep your expectations reasonable.

---

No worries at all. My interpretation of "pulling a moose out of the bush" is an adult moose attached to the back rack or hitch and dragged out, not quartered and no assistance from sleds or trailers or any other aids. My interpretation of bush, at least where we are, is mostly clear cuts where tree stumps, boulders up and down terrain and fresh growth can make navigating very challenging without any moose attached.

We have tried with any and all of the big bores, both forward and reverse to achieve moving adult bulls around in these conditions and none of them are capable even with added weight on the front rack. The only chance of moving those moose whole is to daisy chain quads.

That is my interpretation of pulling a moose out of the bush. In our situations over the past 5 years with 10 adult moose down, no quad would be capable of moving any one of those moose on their own....

Most guys in our group have been deer and moose hunting for over 30 years so lack of experience is not a factor...

In our camp we have been hauling out complete but gutted moose for years in one piece using a "snow tote" large heavy plastic toboggan. We strap it down using ratchet straps , hook it up to a Yamaha big bear 450 cc and away we go . we have to use the chain saw often to clear some larger saplings and use the winch when we have to negotiate steep hills .
This has been going on for about 14 years , we used to quarter the moose but quit when one of the guys took a tumble down a steep ridge and was hurt to the point where he was airlifted out by a Labrador helicopter he's ok now, but we find it easier to haul them out whole skidded on the snow tote and no one gets hurt. where we can walk the Big Bear follows dragging it's load.
Sorry that I can't confirm this via a video, but I can get all the other members of the camp on here and they will confirm all this on this forum. we do not run around showing off all high powered large ATV's we just use what we have, the largest is the newest, 700 cc Grizzly is not used in the bush as it is too big and even with power steering is ungainly , the smaller machines are easier to maneuver

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jaycee

In our camp we have been hauling out complete but gutted moose for years in one piece using a "snow tote" large heavy plastic toboggan. We strap it down using ratchet straps , hook it up to a Yamaha big bear 450 cc and away we go . we have to use the chain saw often to clear some larger saplings and use the winch when we have to negotiate steep hills .
This has been going on for about 14 years , we used to quarter the moose but quit when one of the guys took a tumble down a steep ridge and was hurt to the point where he was airlifted out by a Labrador helicopter he's ok now, but we find it easier to haul them out whole skidded on the snow tote and no one gets hurt. where we can walk the Big Bear follows dragging it's load.
Sorry that I can't confirm this via a video, but I can get all the other members of the camp on here and they will confirm all this on this forum. we do not run around showing off all high powered large ATV's we just use what we have, the largest is the newest, 700 cc Grizzly is not used in the bush as it is too big and even with power steering is ungainly , the smaller machines are easier to maneuver

---

A gutted moose on a sled is believable. I'll ask you though, if you didn't gut the moose and had no sled, do you think you'd pull that same moose out?

Why wouldn't you gut a moose where it died?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

Why wouldn't you gut a moose where it died?

---

And why would you want to work harder than you have too? Gut it and put it on a sled. To me it wouldn't matter what terrain your in put it on a skidding sled of some sort and you wouldn't have to train up quads and have monster quads to do the same amount of work. My little 400 has skidded out a big cow and a 450 black bear and many deer and never had a problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

Why wouldn't you gut a moose where it died?

---

Really? Other then weight or heat why would you? It's a lot cleaner left whole until you get it back to an area where your tools are, get the thing off the ground and no chance of getting grass, mud, sticks, stones ect ect ect in it while you drag it out. If you have a proper area to dress you will also end up with a lot less hair in your meat.

To the OP, sorry if I had a part in this going sideways. I recommend getting a machine that suits your needs and focus less on brand.

To all the guys who somehow think their small 300-450 cc's can outwork a big bore with more power, torque, weight and capacity.... show me the videos...

Every moose we kill gets dressed at kill site. Most get quartered, some dragged whole. No problems with hair in meat as the quarters dont get skinned until they are properly hung so meat is not exposed much at all. If your butcher gives you meat full of hair I would find a better one.
Look you can argue here all night and make up all kinds of conditions to support your need of big bore bikes but reality is thousands of very successful and experienced moose hunters do quite well with smaller bikes ( as most here seem to confirm so far ). Wasn't that long ago a 400cc bike was a big one and the moose aren't any bigger now. Somehow hunters managed quite nicely. I couldn't care less what you use but don't try and convince new buyers that anything less than 600cc bikes are only good for casual trail rides. Our experience is the larger bikes unless they have a transmission like the Honda are more likely to eat drive belts under severe loads. Bigger is not always better.
And lastly, never felt the need to have to mess around making videos when packing out a moose. We just get it done. Nothing to prove to anybody.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

Every moose we kill gets dressed at kill site. Most get quartered, some dragged whole. No problems with hair in meat as the quarters dont get skinned until they are properly hung so meat is not exposed much at all. If your butcher gives you meat full of hair I would find a better one.
Look you can argue here all night and make up all kinds of conditions to support your need of big bore bikes but reality is thousands of very successful and experienced moose hunters do quite well with smaller bikes ( as most here seem to confirm so far ). Wasn't that long ago a 400cc bike was a big one and the moose aren't any bigger now. Somehow hunters managed quite nicely. I couldn't care less what you use but don't try and convince new buyers that anything less than 600cc bikes are only good for casual trail rides. Our experience is the larger bikes unless they have a transmission like the Honda are more likely to eat drive belts under severe loads. Bigger is not always better.

---

Regardless of your opinion, there are facts that are not disputable.

Big bores have more power, torque, and weight so anything related to power and towing and general work will be better performed by a big bore.

Also, Small bikes with low power are awful in deep snow and slush and mud.

Basically, everything being equal, anything your small quad can do a big quad can do better with the exception of maneuvering in tight spaces. Having said that, weather big or small, they all fit in the bed of a 1/2 tonne pickup.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rockandbrush

one thing i would suggest is power steering , i wish i had it on mine , next machine i buy will have it for sure

---

Careful what ya wish for. Power steering is/was a $1000.00 option on my bike and when the power steering motor quit working it is a $2400.00 plus tax and install to repair. This on an already $10,000.00 bike. Not real impressed to say the least. I like my bike and would by another of the same make. To the OP they all break down on occasion, I wouldn't buy into the mines better or the best over his as it's all personal opinion.

outback

Well gentlemen As I truly value your ideas and experience as always. It is some what entertaining to read your comments. No I don't think I need a large 1000 cc bike as I have only ever deer hunted for big game. As far as hauling logs out I think my average log is around 200 pounds. But with all the advice I have received so far, I would be looking at something between 350 and 500 cc 4x4 on demand with a winch pull cord start as well as electric. Although I am partial to a Honda do to the simplicity of the machines I do think as stated that the low clearance may become a problem but I am not experienced to know. So my three choices I have narrowed down so far, from all the great replies and advice would be. Kodiak a King quad and foreman. Any thing else and I think I could probably be looking for ever trying to compare and find. But please keep your advice and comments coming, as my mind is easily changed with knowledge I don't know. All the best Don

Hey Don. If you're not in a hurry and willing to drive to the east end of the city, you'd be more then welcome to put my cat through the paces. My buddy with the new Honda I'm sure would be willing to let you take it for a ride. You will get a lot of perspective as these 2 machines are completely different. We will likely be going out in early may if you're interested. Jeff

Don, don't get too hung up on clearance or comparisons of clearance. 8 inches of clearance on a bike with longer wheel base or 7 inches of clearance on a shorter wheel base?? The difference is negligible.
Just keep in mind where and what your bike will be used for and go from there. And you're right! The arguments are entertaining.

JeffBondar Thank you for the offer but I will decline, as I am heading north for a bit the first week of may and will be taking anything I buy then. Sawbill thanks I figured that one or two inches shouldn't matter but what do I know, not much. I do have a question . I have been seeing a few machines with out owner ship they look pretty decent but I don't think I would go that route as I want every thing registered and legal. And this doesn't seem right some how, that there are no papers .I can see it on a older machine maybe, but would still be leery if I could not register it in my name.

You need registration and insurance unless you intend to only use it on your property. If they can't or won't provide that I would pass. By the way, big bikes cost more to insure.........:ninja:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

You need registration and insurance unless you intend to only use it on your property. If they can't or won't provide that I would pass. By the way, big bikes cost more to insure.........:ninja:

---

Terry, I really don't want to argue with you but don't make false claims.

I have a 2012 AC 700 Limited, My buddy has a 2013 Honda 420 and my other buddy has a 2002 Honda 400. We all pay within $50 of each other for the entire year.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sawbill

Don, don't get too hung up on clearance or comparisons of clearance. 8 inches of clearance on a bike with longer wheel base or 7 inches of clearance on a shorter wheel base?? The difference is negligible.
Just keep in mind where and what your bike will be used for and go from there. And you're right! The arguments are entertaining.

---

Remember the clearance on a solid rear axle and an IRS(independent rear suspension)is missleading. Solid will not sag down like an IRS will when the rider and gear gets aboard. IRS soakes up the bumps very well for trail riding but for work can't beat the solid axle.

3 different policy holders, likely 3 different companies. Apples & oranges. Call your insurance and have them quote you on those 3 sizes. Prices always rise with engine size. I pay less for insurance than my buddy and we have the exact same bikes. Are you really going to now say that insurance companies don't price by engine size now too?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

3 different policy holders, likely 3 different companies. Apples & oranges. Call your insurance and have them quote you on those 3 sizes. Prices always rise with engine size. I pay less for insurance than my buddy and we have the exact same bikes. Are you really going to now say that insurance companies don't price by engine size now too?

---

You're a piece of work.... I'm sure there are many factors that affect price. How about you tell us all the absolute cheapest way the OP should go? Should he get a kids 90cc because the insurance is cheaper then a 250cc? Maybe get the 250 cc because insurance will be cheaper then a 400cc? Get the 400 cc because insurance will be cheaper then a 700cc? Get a 700cc because insurance will be cheaper then a 1000cc?

I just told you about 3 bikes with a drastic size in engines, drastic age range and we all live in GTA and pay close to the same price for insurance, less then 10% difference between the 3 of us. Engine size should not be a factor when it comes to deciding with regards to insurance. We are not talking about Street bikes and Cruisers, we are talking about ATV's where engine size and insurance is a mute point....

What do you want to argue about next????

If you do any sport riding, ground clearance is everything. You'll discover this quickly enough as I did with my 2008 Artic Cat 700 TRV LE (two rider). Due to it's longer wheelbase and lower GC (9 inches I believe it was) I was getting hung up on everything because the TRV's have lower GC than the two rider Cats. I added a two inch lift and larger tires and what a difference in the way she goes over and through things. Now I have ground clearance but still maintain stability for steep inclines and descents due to the longer wheel base.

Since 09 (when I purchased my machine used with 500 km's) my insurance has been $300 a year.

robster Thank you I had not put much thought into the suspension. So as this would be an all around machine I think the solid axle would be the way to go. Yes I would be doing some ruff trails or no trail but it would only be enough to get me to an area to park and hunt or scout. Yes if I was constantly trail riding I think I may go the other way with independent but for the limited use of the machine I can put up with a bit of discomfort as well as less parts that could break. but if the independent would be better performing in ruff terrain and over hill and dale and logs and rock I would go that route. But once again I don't know these things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Since 09 (when I purchased my machine used with 500 km's) my insurance has been $300 a year.

---

I pay $138.00/yr for my Big Bear. Liability,fire & Theft.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Since 09 (when I purchased my machine used with 500 km's) my insurance has been $300 a year.

---

Insurance on my 2012 Cat 700 Limited (bought new) is $304.92 a year for full.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeffBondar

You're a piece of work.... I'm sure there are many factors that affect price. How about you tell us all the absolute cheapest way the OP should go? Should he get a kids 90cc because the insurance is cheaper then a 250cc? Maybe get the 250 cc because insurance will be cheaper then a 400cc? Get the 400 cc because insurance will be cheaper then a 700cc? Get a 700cc because insurance will be cheaper then a 1000cc?

I just told you about 3 bikes with a drastic size in engines, drastic age range and we all live in GTA and pay close to the same price for insurance, less then 10% difference between the 3 of us. Engine size should not be a factor when it comes to deciding with regards to insurance. We are not talking about Street bikes and Cruisers, we are talking about ATV's where engine size and insurance is a mute point....

What do you want to argue about next????

---

No point. Your arguments are getting weaker and weaker.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

No point. Your arguments are getting weaker and weaker.

---

Great! Then stop arguing!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

I pay $138.00/yr for my Big Bear. Liability,fire & Theft.

---

Well worth the extra 160 per year for a big bore! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Well worth the extra 160 per year for a big bore! :)

---

Yeah that's just 1 example. If everyone posted their rates you'd see people with 400's paying the same and sometimes more then us...

I have had a lot of atv from the 1000cc wildcat to the 250 polaris hawkeye .I still like driving my 350 Honda for hunting and all around farm work .I also have a 650 Baja that will kick your 700 butt all over the bush ,I know I can pull a moose out of the bush with my 350 Honda .as it will not spin the tires like the 1000 cc did ,if a guy just wants a bike to us for daily use around the property then a 500cc or less bike is the way to go ,will plow the drive haul firewood trail ride and hunt ,and just have fun easy on fuel and easy to drive ,,Honda fourman Yamaha kodiak are great bikes and the ones to look at if buying used ,,we have 7 atvs at this time so I have a little bit of experience ,

If you can't afford to insure it you probably can't afford to maintain it properly either.
I find the most useful sized bike for a big game hunter is the 400 class with a shifter tranny. Any bigger and the chassis get bigger/heavier and most are belt drives. The only failures we have encountered are belts getting greased and failing at really bad times. Never an issue with a shifter. These mid sized bikes aren't the best toys for blasting around but are miniature log skidders and will do amazing things if you are a good enough operator. I'm going to leave it at that before Jeff's head explodes....LoL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dutchhunter

I have had a lot of atv from the 1000cc wildcat to the 250 polaris hawkeye .I still like driving my 350 Honda for hunting and all around farm work .I also have a 650 Baja that will kick your 700 butt all over the bush ,I know I can pull a moose out of the bush with my 350 Honda .as it will not spin the tires like the 1000 cc did ,if a guy just wants a bike to us for daily use around the property then a 500cc or less bike is the way to go ,will plow the drive haul firewood trail ride and hunt ,and just have fun easy on fuel and easy to drive ,,Honda fourman Yamaha kodiak are great bikes and the ones to look at if buying used ,,we have 7 atvs at this time so I have a little bit of experience ,

---

The Baja is not a utility quad but more of a sport quad (no 4x4), and I guarantee it will not go where we go..lol As long as you stay on dry trails then yes, you'll kick a utility machine's butt as far as speed goes, but not as far as going over and through the rough stuff goes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

If you can't afford to insure it you probably can't afford to maintain it properly either.
I find the most useful sized bike for a big game hunter is the 400 class with a shifter tranny. Any bigger and the chassis get bigger/heavier and most are belt drives. The only failures we have encountered are belts getting greased and failing at really bad times. Never an issue with a shifter. These mid sized bikes aren't the best toys for blasting around but are miniature log skidders and will do amazing things if you are a good enough operator. I'm going to leave it at that before Jeff's head explodes....LoL.

---

The AC in your group had belt problems? I ask this because the CVT setup Cat uses (as does the Yamaha Grizz) are pretty much bullet proof and they are not known for eating belts, like Can Am and Polaris are. Now, if you get the belt wet that's another story. Been there, done that and waterproofed everything properly and never had a problem since. I'm still on my original belt as well, even after getting it wet about three times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

The AC in your group had belt problems? I ask this because the CVT setup Cat uses (as does the Yamaha Grizz) are pretty much bullet proof and they are not known for eating belts, like Can Am and Polaris are. Now, if you get the belt wet that's another story. Been there, done that and waterproofed everything properly and never had a problem since. I'm still on my original belt as well, even after getting it wet about three times.

---

No it was a Grizzly 660. I had to pull him out of a mud hole with my dinky toy Big Bear. It was the electronics that failed on the AC a couple seasons ago, not his belt. Bike spent most of the week dead in the bush, it finally started on the last day of the hunt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

No it was a Grizzly 660. I had to pull him out of a mud hole with my dinky toy Big Bear. It was the electronics that failed on the AC a couple seasons ago, not his belt. Bike spent most of the week dead in the bush, it finally started on the last day of the hunt.

---

You pulled him out by yourself?:p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

You pulled him out by yourself?:p

---

I had a moose on the front rack and a bush cord of 8ft oak logs lashed to the back and if I remember a flat tire too but yeah, no problem......:ninja:. Next year if the AC dies in the bush again we're just going to set it on fire :joker:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

I had a moose on the front rack and a bush cord of 8ft oak logs lashed to the back and if I remember a flat tire too but yeah, no problem......:ninja:. Next year if the AC dies in the bush again we're just going to set it on fire :joker:

---

Tell the guy in your group with the Cat to turn the kill switch off next time. LOL! It usually starts better that way..:)

He was all set to dump the lemon but went through a divorce and got fleeced so he is stuck with it. This is the bike that had a new engine replaced on warranty in the first year. They actually had a factory technical service manager go to the dealership to approve the work. He approved it and they replaced the engine but it is not a bike we depend on let's just say.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

He was all set to dump the lemon but went through a divorce and got fleeced so he is stuck with it. This is the bike that had a new engine replaced on warranty in the first year. They actually had a factory technical service manager go to the dealership to approve the work. He approved it and they replaced the engine but it is not a bike we depend on let's just say.

---

That's certainly not common, but it happens, with all of them.

Don't forget to have fun! Here I am jumping the big girl.....

http://vid1098.photobucket.com/album...psfuf8ousa.mp4

Nice jump Jeff..lol

No matter what tires you have or how much clearance you have, they all get stuck. These were with the Mud Wolf tires I used to have which don't compare to the tires I have on there now.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...V/c4791722.jpg


That's the Yamaha that tried but couldn't..lol

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...V/b13ff4f5.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...V/67e8aa1d.jpg

Miserable Lake trail. That doesn't look steep in the pic but I'll tell ya, there was sphinkter pucker action on my way down..lol



http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...V/3012731d.jpg

Lots of fun

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...V/c84e8086.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...V/28d9b106.jpg

At 300km I changed my stock tires out for Kenda Bearclaw HTR Radials. Nothing wrong with stock (albeit they were on the cheap side) but the Radials really make for an amazing ride...

Nice Pics Rick, looks like some fun times riding :-)

How she sits with the new (er) tires.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...iresatv001.jpg

Hey I remember some of those pics... and rides :scream:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by darren123

Hey I remember some of those pics... and rides :scream:

---

Hey buddy, there you are! Your bike looks a little different now than some of those older pics, eh?

aye needed a winter makeover. Bike has never let me down.

If I can recommend one thing get one with a secondary pull start. This is a 700 bored kawi aka Suzuki twin peaks bored out but you can still pull start with ease with the decompression.

Attachment 29150

Attachment 29151

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/...psvm5cpo4u.jpg

Hahah, i know that quad.

A few more. That's BB400 in the background and also pre lift/tires..

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...V/IMG_0161.jpg

This small bike needed a push..lol

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...ATV/atv110.jpg

This hole was deep:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...2/ATV/atv1.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...02/ATV/atv.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by darren123

aye needed a winter makeover. Bike has never let me down.

If I can recommend one thing get one with a secondary pull start. This is a 700 bored kawi aka Suzuki twin peaks bored out but you can still pull start with ease with the decompression.

Attachment 29150

Attachment 29151

---

Look how low she used to sit!

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...V/c3c55b18.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...ndercat006.jpg

here you go jeff I will race you ...I sold this one because it used three times as much fuel as my 350 and 500 cc bikes ,,but she sure had lots ..lol Dutch

I still haven't pulled the trigger on buying an atv yet, but if there's one thing I've learned over the year, it's to pay attention to what the market is telling you.

People unload junk, cheap. There are far more (probably to an order of magnitude) Late 90s to Late 2000s Artic Cat and Polaris quads for sale - beat up and not running from significant issues - on any kijiji or trader sight for $1000-$3000 than you will ever see from the more prestigious brands.

I've been trying to find a beat-all deal on a Big Bear, Foreman, King Quad, Prairie and they're next to impossible to get your hands on... but if you want an AC or Polaris... well, you'll have no shortage to choose from.

Maybe try looking in the USA?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dutchhunter

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...ndercat006.jpg

here you go jeff I will race you ...I sold this one because it used three times as much fuel as my 350 and 500 cc bikes ,,but she sure had lots ..lol Dutch

---

Oh a Thundercat. Now that's prestige! Those things will do 100 mph! lol

I've gotten 160 km's to a tank with my 700 taking it easy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

A few more. That's BB400 in the background and also pre lift/tires..

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...V/IMG_0161.jpg

This small bike needed a push..lol

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...ATV/atv110.jpg

This hole was deep:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...2/ATV/atv1.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...02/ATV/atv.jpg

---

This all looks like a ton of fun and the monster bikes will excel in this but this is not what the OP was asking for at all. You see, when we have a mud hole get too big we just take 20 minutes and cut a trail around it don't go through it non stop to make it worse. Why would you try and get a moose across this mud hole? And then complain about getting the meat dirty?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

This all looks like a ton of fun and the monster bikes will excel in this but this is not what the OP was asking for at all. You see, when we have a mud hole get too big we just take 20 minutes and cut a trail around it don't go through it non stop to make it worse. Why would you try and get a moose across this mud hole? And then complain about getting the meat dirty?

---

Because it's FUN! Try it sometime and get your bike dirty..lol

The OP also said he may be interested in some real riding (getting into the rough stuff).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Because it's FUN! Try it sometime and get your bike dirty..lol

---

Of course it's fun. I used to race motocross Provincially in 2 classes ( 125 & 250) when I was a kid. I get it trust me. But this has nothing to do with the OP and his questions about a utility machine for hunting. Apples & Oranges.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

The AC in your group had belt problems? I ask this because the CVT setup Cat uses (as does the Yamaha Grizz) are pretty much bullet proof and they are not known for eating belts, like Can Am and Polaris are. Now, if you get the belt wet that's another story. Been there, done that and waterproofed everything properly and never had a problem since. I'm still on my original belt as well, even after getting it wet about three times.

---

Agreed with these cvt belt systems (yam,suz,AC) . Where the problem is when decelerating abruptly to a complete stop the belt actually gets hung up higher up on the primary sheve where the secondary become slack. The internal clutch lets go suddenly and primary gets stuck with the belt higher up. When you go to start it spins and creates flat spots leading to premature belt wear. The few dealers I know say most of these come in due to being used with a plow pushing snow. The way around it is putting it in neutral and letting the clutches reset the belt before moving in gear again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

Of course it's fun. I used to race motocross Provincially in 2 classes when I was a kid. I get it trust me. But this has nothing to do with the OP and his questions about a utility machine for hunting.

---

I edited my last post. The OP did mention he may be interested in some good recreational riding over and above getting to the camp and pulling a moose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oddmott

I still haven't pulled the trigger on buying an atv yet, but if there's one thing I've learned over the year, it's to pay attention to what the market is telling you.

People unload junk, cheap. There are far more (probably to an order of magnitude) Late 90s to Late 2000s Artic Cat and Polaris quads for sale - beat up and not running from significant issues - on any kijiji or trader sight for $1000-$3000 than you will ever see from the more prestigious brands.

I've been trying to find a beat-all deal on a Big Bear, Foreman, King Quad, Prairie and they're next to impossible to get your hands on... but if you want an AC or Polaris... well, you'll have no shortage to choose from.

---

The same could be said with guns. There are more 870's for sale then any other gun? Why? Because they are inexpensive and therefore a lot of them get bought. Lots of guys love 870's, lots of guys don't. The same can be said for quads. Arctic cats and Polaris are less expensive then Yamaha and Honda. Yamaha and Honda are less expensive then Can-am. I don't think you would say Can-am must be better because there are hardly any used ones for sale right? The reason there are hardly any used ones is because they cost so much and therefore sales are lower....

I'll take your word for what it is but if you see a lot of Polaris and Arctic cats for sale that are over 15 years old, is that not a testament to how long they can last? I'd sure be happy if my bike lasts 15 years...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by robster

Agreed with these cvt belt systems (yam,suz,AC) . Where the problem is when decelerating to a complete stop suddenly the belt actually gets hung up higher up on the primary sheve where the secondary become slack. The internal clutch lets go suddenly and primary gets stuck with the belt higher up. When you go to start it spins and creates flat spots leading to premature belt wear. The few dealers I know say most of these come in due to being used with a plow pushing snow. The way around it is putting it in neutral and letting the clutches reset the belt before moving in gear again.

---

I wasn't aware of that Rob. I've never had a problem with mine but I also haven't plowed with it. I've done a lot of towing though.
The other thing I like about Cat is that they come with a 2" receiver for a hitch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeffBondar

The same could be said with guns. There are more 870's for sale then any other gun? Why? Because they are inexpensive and therefore a lot of them get bought. Lots of guys love 870's, lots of guys don't. The same can be said for quads. Arctic cats and Polaris are less expensive then Yamaha and Honda. Yamaha and Honda are less expensive then Can-am. I don't think you would say Can-am must be better because there are hardly any used ones for sale right? The reason there are hardly any used ones is because they cost so much and therefore sales are lower....

I'll take your word for what it is but if you see a lot of Polaris and Arctic cats for sale that are over 15 years old, is that not a testament to how long they can last? I'd sure be happy if my bike lasts 15 years...

---

I'm not so sure I'd call AC's cheap. They're pretty pricey if yuo ask me, but they are built like a tank. Polaris has had some really good specials though. They probably outsell the rest because of that.

At the time I was shopping I found ac and Polaris to be the least expensive (not cheap) and also the most options for the price. I got mine new for just under 10k whereas the competition was well north of 12k for the same thing...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeffBondar

At the time I was shopping I found ac and Polaris to be the least expensive (not cheap) and also the most options for the price. I got mine new for just under 10k whereas the competition was well north of 12k for the same thing...

---

The original bill of sale on mine was $12,900, and he got it for a deal in 08 because he knew the owner of the dealer. I got it for much less with 500 km's on it though.

For you suz,yam,ac cvt guys. Have you heard or done the coop45 2mm shim mod? If you've put on bigger tires it really helps your bottom end.

Wow that is basically msrp for a limited... In that case it would have been on par with the rest and I'm happy I got a sweet deal ����

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by robster

For you suz,yam,ac cvt guys. Have you heard or done the coop45 2mm shim mod? If you've put on bigger tires it really helps your bottom end.

---

I know about it but haven't done it. The gearing in my 08 is pretty steep (3.6 gearing the sought after by the AC guys that didn't get them with their machines- the TRV comes with them) and my tires are only 28", so with those gears and a 700 powerplant I've had no problems at all turning those tires in the thick stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeffBondar

Wow that is basically msrp for a limited... In that case it would have been on par with the rest and I'm happy I got a sweet deal ����

---

You did get a sweet deal. The TRV is a little more though remember, and it's an LE.

Severn Don, I'd also suggest you go out and sit on (take them for a ride if possible) as many different brands as you can, and see how they feel. If you're a small guy the smaller bikes may feel perfect but if you're a larger guy a larger machine may fit the bill.

I've done it with my King Quad 700. It helps in the slow situations like towing, crawling along a steep trail climbing over rocks, logs etc. engages the belt lower in the primary giving you lower gearing. The basic 2mm shim mod $14 and about 30-40 minutes. You lose some top end but can get it back with additional mods.

heres my input... lost interest in reading alot of posts so sorry if some of this has bin solved...lol

proud suzuki owner for 16 years, never a problem outside regular maintenance, or stuff i have broken due to my own stupidity... but pretty well any bike will be the same, if you maintain them, they will be good to you... everybike has their quirks, arctic cats tend to break axles, but if you get a older arctic cat, they ran suzuki engines in them for year... can-ams tend to have electrical issues... polaris are heavy bikes etc. personally id stick to suzuki, honda, yami...

for what you have described id highly recommend at suzuki kingquad 450... trust me a belt drive is so much nicer for trail riding, and they really ont limit you too much for work capabilties... independant suspension is the cats as well

big vs small: have bin on both sides of this, used to own a suzuki 250 then went up to a 700... i can take that 700 alot of places i couldnt take the 250... ground clearance and power to turn the wheels... the extra 100 lbs it ways dosent make any difference when your stuck, infact my 600 lb bike with a 3500 lb winch is easier to get unstuck than my 500 lb bike with a 2000 lb winch... as for pulling power, i unforntuatly cant claim to have pulled a 1000 lb moose out of the bush with it, but what i can claim, and have done quite regularily with both bikes is drag 1000 lb roundbales of hay out to the horses... weekly infact...

insurance wise, i pay $175 liabilty, fire and theft on my 700, i paid $125 liability only on my 250... so not breaking the bank for me to have the bigger bike...

have yet to have any issues with the belt on my 700, and just finished my second winter of plowing snow with it...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by robster

For you suz,yam,ac cvt guys. Have you heard or done the coop45 2mm shim mod? If you've put on bigger tires it really helps your bottom end.

---

I did it with my 700 King. Took them back out because I felt it took too much from the top end. Gives the same affect as having a worn belt - it sits lower during take off, and doesn't ride as high at full throttle. What I did do that gave similar results without losing top end was switch to lighter primary weights. Engine rpm is higher through the initial take off. Also switched my secondary spring for better backshifting, and changed the stock ecu to a VDI unit. Lots of ways to tailor your machine to your riding style and condition. The most obvious and common is simply changing out your tires.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishy steve

have yet to have any issues with the belt on my 700, and just finished my second winter of plowing snow with it...

---

It's not the snow plowing, it's the abrupt stop when you hit the pile at the end. The clutch doesn't fully open up to let the belt down to lowest point. When put in reverse slight slip occurs before it moves. This is where the premature wear or flat spots occur. Not as noticeable like a traditional belt clutch because they never fully disingage the belt, it always has tension.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...lares500ho.jpg
had this one for three months just never liked the way it drove never buy another one .thy just donot compare to the Honda or Yamaha ,,this is a 500 ,,Dutch

guess thats why i havent had problems... i avoid the abrupt stop (except when i find stumps :( lol) have a steep bank across from my driveway, so can easily just push snow over it, and the other way i have a ton of space to put snow so no need to ram it into bank...

oops lied about my insurance... only 13.33/month =159.96/year...

Guys the photos were awesome, they remind me of our main trail that takes us to our smaller ones. We have two hills that are similar and a long swale that looks the same although not as deep. What type of Yamaha was that that could not make the hill. Your machines are sure good looking and from what I gather very expensive. As another poster stated I will probably have to cut a path if needed if I only go with 500cc or less. And from your photos I can see were the independent suspension and ground clearance and power would be needed. What would the difference be between a chain drive and belt drive and solid drive shaft or am I off base and its something else all together.

with a belt you are limited by the belt... only time i have ever had my belt slip i was trying to pull a stuck truck... as mentioned routinly pull round bales of hay with it... a straight geared bike is gonna be your true work horse, only gonna be limited by traction... test drive a few bikes... i always swore id never buy a belt driven bike, then i drove a buddies kingquad 450... bought my kingquad the following year... automatics such has hondas 420 i was not a fan of... a buddy had one, and we switched bikes one day, he drove my king quad, and i drove his rancher... he now drives a king quad, and so do i haha belts are just so much nicer i find for general riding, no searching for gears in mud or hills, just give her gas and go... if you dont think you want a belt, there is a king quad 400, which still uses a gear drive, or the foreman 500's as well...

Fishy steve I have no preference as I have no knowledge on any thing. This is why I enjoy the feed back from every body as I can make an educated choice because of actual users such as your self. Thank you very much to you and the others, as I have learned so much from all your comments and advice since the start of my thread. Don

one other thing in terms of belt drives, not sure about the other manufactures, but on the suzi's they have low range and dif lock... i know AC and yami's have the diff lock, just not sure on low range... makes a big difference in pulling power...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishy steve

one other thing in terms of belt drives, not sure about the other manufactures, but on the suzi's they have low range and dif lock... i know AC and yami's have the diff lock, just not sure on low range... makes a big difference in pulling power...

---

On my AC I have low / high and front diff lock as well as an over ride plus selectable 2/4wd with the flick of a switch. I'd have to check but front diff lock is limited to slow speed, not sure what the limit is without checking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeffBondar

On my AC I have low / high and front diff lock as well as an over ride plus selectable 2/4wd with the flick of a switch. I'd have to check but front diff lock is limited to slow speed, not sure what the limit is without checking.

---

same as suzuki's... wonder where they got their ideas from... same place their engines used to come from ;)

i can use diff lock in any range but it does have a limiter on it, but like you say there is a override... only ever use it when stuck though so speed limitations isnt really a concern...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishy steve

same as suzuki's... wonder where they got their ideas from... same place their engines used to come from ;)

i can use diff lock in any range but it does have a limiter on it, but like you say there is a override... only ever use it when stuck though so speed limitations isnt really a concern...

---

I haven't been stuck so I wouldn't know bah ha ha ha... just joking. You make a convincing argument for the Suzuki :-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by severn don

Fishy steve I have no preference as I have no knowledge on any thing. This is why I enjoy the feed back from every body as I can make an educated choice because of actual users such as your self. Thank you very much to you and the others, as I have learned so much from all your comments and advice since the start of my thread. Don

---

that is the best to do is ask lots of questions... anything you dont know, just ask, if you dont want to ask publicly send someone a PM... even go into a dealership and ask questions...

all in all, we are all gonna have our own opinions on what makes a perfect bike, and we all will have our good and bad experiences with different bikes... as with anything there is lemons in every manufacture... like i say arctic cat seems to have a axle issue... 2 people i know have AC's and both have put at least 2 axles on them... one guy is admititly hard on his bike, but i can tell you, my 75 year old neighbour certainly isnt... ive had suzuki's since 1999 (94 quadrunner 250, and now a 07 kingquad 700) and have had great luck with them, the guy i do alot of riding with has a kingquad 750 and good luck as well... i live right at a major trail head, so see alot of bikes get towed out, and ussually have 3 or 4 people knock on my door a year with broken down bikes or stuck trucks... most common has bin can-am, with electrical issues... followed by polaris with broken belts...

but all in all, what suits your riding style is gonna be up to you, you need to go out and test drive a couple bikes, and see what feals good, and whats in your price range...

The diff lock can only be used in low range, and you don't want to go very far with it on anyway as it's only for tight jams and you can't turn the handle bars when it's engaged. You need to come to a complete stop before engaging the diff lock. AC comes with reverse over ride, meaning only when in reverse can you hit the button for some more revs.

When I'm riding slower technical trails, or just slow trails in general I ride in low. It's easier on the entire CVT system and the torque is always there. My machine has a Suzuki engine (last year of them in 08), although the 700 Cat engines are excellent engines as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeffBondar

I haven't been stuck so I wouldn't know bah ha ha ha... just joking. You make a convincing argument for the Suzuki :-)

---

touche' haha pretty well just snow for me... have a habbit of driving it where i shouldnt in the winter... only bin stuck in the mud twice with it... but all 5 of us tried the same hole, with bikes ranging in size from 450-800 (AC, suzi, polaris, honda) and not one of us made it through so... other time was on my farm, in the stupidist spot with nothin to winch off of lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

The diff lock can only be used in low range, and you don't want to go very far with it on anyway as it's only for tight jams and you can't turn the handle bars when it's engaged. You need to come to a complete stop before engaging the diff lock. AC comes with reverse over ride, meaning only when in reverse can you hit the button for some more revs.

When I'm riding slower technical trails, or just slow trails in general I ride in low. It's easier on the entire CVT system and the torque is always there. My machine has a Suzuki engine (last year of them in 08), although the 700 Cat engines are excellent engines as well.

---

hmm mine like i say can be used in high, but you here the engine limit like in reverse, and the over ride works the same...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishy steve

hmm mine like i say can be used in high, but you here the engine limit like in reverse, and the over ride works the same...

---

The 4x4 switch can be turned on or off in hi or low at any speed but the diff lock is only for tight jams and only used when trying to get unstuck.
The reverse over ride can only be used when 4x4 is engaged. It won't work in 2 wheel drive.

agread, and thats the only time i use it... when hung up and the tire that is spinning is not touching ground and the other one is...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

The diff lock can only be used in low range, and you don't want to go very far with it on anyway as it's only for tight jams and you can't turn the handle bars when it's engaged. You need to come to a complete stop before engaging the diff lock. AC comes with reverse over ride, meaning only when in reverse can you hit the button for some more revs.

When I'm riding slower technical trails, or just slow trails in general I ride in low. It's easier on the entire CVT system and the torque is always there. My machine has a Suzuki engine (last year of them in 08), although the 700 Cat engines are excellent engines as well.

---

Thanks for clarifying. I never used the front diff lock or the reverse override. Will have to make a mental note of their uses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeffBondar

Thanks for clarifying. I never used the front diff lock or the reverse override. Will have to make a mental note of their uses.

---

:thumbup:

I forgot to add the reverse over ride only works when 4x4 is engaged. I found that out the hard way while scratching my head one day when the rev limiter was hitting when trying to reverse up a hill in 2 wheel drive but nothing was happening when I held the over ride button. I knew it, but forgot. Then I hit the 4x4 switch and wham, she took off in reverse and I had to keep myself from going over the front end..lol

If I can add one more thing with my Honda Forman 400 the one thing that I don't like is its 4x4 all the time, I know you can buy a kit but haven't looked into it. It really tears up the yard when turning if you decide to use it around the house for anything. So in hind sight I would have looked for a machine that was selectable from 2 wheel to 4 wheel

Gentlemen you have walked me threw all my questions and all the parts and reasons for them on a atv I think that my last one would be what is the reason or difference between a belt - chain or solid drive . After that all my questions in future would probably be on maintenance and riding. I have complete confidence now of walking into a dealer ship or private seller and knowing what I would like or what to look for. Thank you all again this is why I have always liked this site, you are like old friends I have never met. Don

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gooseman

If I can add one more thing with my Honda Forman 400 the one thing that I don't like is its 4x4 all the time, I know you can buy a kit but haven't looked into it. It really tears up the yard when turning if you decide to use it around the house for anything. So in hind sight I would have looked for a machine that was selectable from 2 wheel to 4 wheel

---

I find that even though my AC has the option, even in 2 wheel drive it rips up the lawn when making sharper turns because the back end is always spooled, aka locked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by severn don

Gentlemen you have walked me threw all my questions and all the parts and reasons for them on a atv I think that my last one would be what is the reason or difference between a belt - chain or solid drive . After that all my questions in future would probably be on maintenance and riding. I have complete confidence now of walking into a dealer ship or private seller and knowing what I would like or what to look for. Thank you all again this is why I have always liked this site, you are like old friends I have never met. Don

---

Chain drive, mostly used on the hotrod 2 wheel drive models.
Belt drive, used on most ATV's. The belt only runs between the motor and transmission, has nothing to do with the final drive which on most is now shaft drive.
Solid drive, no idea what you mean.

Fisherman Thank you for the information. I had no idea what I meant ether. But you explained what I did not know Thank you Don

I guess the thread has gone off a little anyway, but my questions mirror the OPs enough that it might be useful, so I'll ask away.

I just bought a 60 acre property in rural NB. Moving there in a couple months. An ATV will be first on my list to buy when I get there and I'm researching now. I'll be buying new, unless I can find a good deal on an clean, relatively newer model. I'd rather start off with something in good condition and hopefully keep it that way for years to come.

The ATV will be generally used to get around the property and surrounding area. Hauling stuff around the property in a ATV trailer, like when cutting firewood. It will hopefully get used to help with occasional big game hunts (deer/bear/moose). Probably will not get used much in a recreational capacity, other than potentially using it to travel back roads/trails to access remote fishing holes. Won't be used for plowing, nor will it likely come out much once the heavy snow flies. Maybe get used to tow around a small aluminum boat and launch it since I'm close to a lake.

The ATV will not get used big hours, nor can I envision myself asking huge, HP required tasks of it. I grew up with 200cc ATV, it was small, light and nimble, qualities I really appreciated getting around as I generally wasn't spending lots of time in heavy snow or mud, nor working it super hard. As of recently I've used a Polaris 500cc and 800cc when out on fishing trips. I found the 800cc to be far too large in general. The 500 far more reasonable and along the lines of what I'd need.

I'd also like to invest as little a possible. I've been looking at the Bruin 350 4x4.

http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/products/...up=YT&catId=19

Would that be up to what I'm generally looking for? It's really the smallest of the utility 4x4 atvs. Biggest down downside it appears to have is no locking front differential and/or low range. Is that something I would regret quickly? It this more of an AWD system than a proper 4x4? While I won't be working the crap out of this, I also know that launching into a back lake or pulling a cut tree down on occasion that might be beneficial.


Finally, having grown up with a 5 speed, ridden motorcycles, the CVT thing just seems wrong to me on a quad. Honda seems to be the only one left with an actual 5 speed? I am making a mound of a mole hill?

Beyond the Bruin 350, the Yamaha Kodiak 450, Suzuki KingQuad 400/500 and Honda TRX420/Foreman 500 are the other front runners.

CptSydor, I know you don't understand the CVT setup but if you can, drive one with it and see what you think. The Polaris doesn't use a CVT setup. They use a slip and grip type setup like Kawasaki and Can Am use. The CVT drivetrain is slick, and it's a workhorse when you need it to be with the power always being there which is great when going slow, like when rock crawling, towing, etc. The biggest mistake people make with this setup is forgetting or just not using it in low when doing any work, which is hard on it and wears things out, like the wetclutch.

Buy a Honda. TRX420 is the one you need.
http://atv.honda.ca/utility/trx420pg_cte

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

Buy a Honda.

---

/end thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

CptSydor, I know you don't understand the CVT setup but if you can, drive one with it and see what you think. The Polaris doesn't use a CVT setup. They use a slip and grip type setup like Kawasaki and Can Am use. The CVT drivetrain is slick, and it's a workhorse when you need it to be with the power always being there which is great when going slow, like when rock crawling, towing, etc. The biggest mistake people make with this setup is forgetting or just not using it in low when doing any work, which is hard on it and wears things out, like the wetclutch.

---

Okay I guess I'm using the term CVT to generally characterize any transmission where you don't actively select your gears. Like on a snowmobile. It seems like most ATVs have gone this route or am I wrong? But then higher level models actually have a CVT, which I probably don't really know what it is, but seems to be better than the 'slip and grip'?

I doubt most of the models I'm looking at in the lower end of the utility market would have a CVT, so should I avoid the 'slip and grip'? Is the Honda, 5 speed better if I had to pick between them?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

Buy a Honda.

---

Honestly, from everything I read and I've ridden one before, it comes back to this. I have a honda generator as well, does that make me a fan boy?

I believe the small Yamahas use a CVT setup, but I'm not sure on that.

Don't snowmobiles use the slip and grip setup?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

Buy a Honda. TRX420 is the one you need.

---

Terry.... you're so funny....I would love to meet you in real life....

Honda trx 420 is a great bike and will do more them most will ever need ,,as well as the Yamaha kodiac 450 ,thy just work and work well ...another thing is that most guys figure thy will not use there atv very much until thy have one ,I really enjoy plowing snow and done it all year this year with a honda 420 worked great ,you do not have to beat your bike to plow snow ,,and you will use it a lot more them you would ever think ,,Dutch

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CptSydor

I guess the thread has gone off a little anyway, but my questions mirror the OPs enough that it might be useful, so I'll ask away.

I just bought a 60 acre property in rural NB. Moving there in a couple months. An ATV will be first on my list to buy when I get there and I'm researching now. I'll be buying new, unless I can find a good deal on an clean, relatively newer model. I'd rather start off with something in good condition and hopefully keep it that way for years to come.

The ATV will be generally used to get around the property and surrounding area. Hauling stuff around the property in a ATV trailer, like when cutting firewood. It will hopefully get used to help with occasional big game hunts (deer/bear/moose). Probably will not get used much in a recreational capacity, other than potentially using it to travel back roads/trails to access remote fishing holes. Won't be used for plowing, nor will it likely come out much once the heavy snow flies. Maybe get used to tow around a small aluminum boat and launch it since I'm close to a lake.

The ATV will not get used big hours, nor can I envision myself asking huge, HP required tasks of it. I grew up with 200cc ATV, it was small, light and nimble, qualities I really appreciated getting around as I generally wasn't spending lots of time in heavy snow or mud, nor working it super hard. As of recently I've used a Polaris 500cc and 800cc when out on fishing trips. I found the 800cc to be far too large in general. The 500 far more reasonable and along the lines of what I'd need.

I'd also like to invest as little a possible. I've been looking at the Bruin 350 4x4.

http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/products/...up=YT&catId=19

Would that be up to what I'm generally looking for? It's really the smallest of the utility 4x4 atvs. Biggest down downside it appears to have is no locking front differential and/or low range. Is that something I would regret quickly? It this more of an AWD system than a proper 4x4? While I won't be working the crap out of this, I also know that launching into a back lake or pulling a cut tree down on occasion that might be beneficial.


Finally, having grown up with a 5 speed, ridden motorcycles, the CVT thing just seems wrong to me on a quad. Honda seems to be the only one left with an actual 5 speed? I am making a mound of a mole hill?

Beyond the Bruin 350, the Yamaha Kodiak 450, Suzuki KingQuad 400/500 and Honda TRX420/Foreman 500 are the other front runners.

---

bin a few years since i looked at new bikes, but when i was looking if you wanted a regualr gear driven 5 speed there was basically 3 options... foreman 500, kingquad 400, and yamaha i think had either a 400 or a 450... not sure if the king quad 400 is still gear or if its a belt... like i mentioned earlier i swore id never buy a belt driven bike, until i got to drive a buddies king quad 450... after that ride, i bought my king quad, and dont personally think id go back to a 5 speed... if you are buying a belt driven bike, id highly sugest buying one with low range, for working capabilties... diff lock is definately a great featrure that has got me out of alot of spots i wouldnt have other wise... if your hard pressed on buying a 5 speed, then the foreman 500 is by far your best choice...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fisherman

Chain drive, mostly used on the hotrod 2 wheel drive models.
Belt drive, used on most ATV's. The belt only runs between the motor and transmission, has nothing to do with the final drive which on most is now shaft drive.
Solid drive, no idea what you mean.

---

what he means by solid drive, i assume is gear driven... aka 5 speed...

chain drive, as mentioned ussually on older bikes, and 2wd models, wouldnt really suggest...
belt drive, similar to snow machine, get on and go, no searching for gears, and can still be great work horses...
Gear driven is your true work horse...

just looked at the link for the yami, looks like a nice bike... its a automatic tranny, similar to a car transmission... only ever drove one once (honda 420) and i did not like it... id definately take a belt over it...

looked on the suzuki site, they still make a manual shift king quad 400, but no diff lock... same price range as the yami...
http://www.suzuki.ca/?q=en/node/687

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishy steve

just looked at the link for the yami, looks like a nice bike... its a automatic tranny, similar to a car transmission...

---

Not automatic, you have a Low and High range forward, neutral, reverse and park. Not like a car at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fisherman

Not automatic, you have a Low and High range forward, neutral, reverse and park. Not like a car at all.

---

k so its a belt drive then... website said "Fully automatic transmission" which i assumed ment an automatic like the honda 420's...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishy steve

k so its a belt drive then... website said "Fully automatic transmission" which i assumed ment an automatic like the honda 420's...

---

Ok, I guess they didn't use the right word in the ad, sort of gives you the wrong impression.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fisherman

Not automatic, you have a Low and High range forward, neutral, reverse and park. Not like a car at all.

---

Yeah, that's an automatic for an ATV. In high you can go say 0-80 by just hitting the throttle with no gears to shift.. In low it's the same except you can't go as fast.

when i hear automatic, i think like the honda 420's where it similar to a car tranny, meaning u basically select drive and go but it still has gears that it shifts through... what do they call that then? i wasnt a fan of it regardless...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishy steve

when i hear automatic, i think like the honda 420's where it similar to a car tranny, meaning u basically select drive and go but it still has gears that it shifts through... what do they call that then? i wasnt a fan of it regardless...

---

That sounds like an auto, but just different than the CVT (continuously variable transmission) system that never shifts.

all in all, as i said before, its gonna come down to personal preference on what you like the feal of... all the bikes that CptSydor lists as top runners, if properly maintained will last a long time, its gonna come down to preference... as someone else had offered earlier, if you or the original poster are up this way, shoot me a PM and i can show ya what the king quads can do...

one thing to keep in mind is honda and suzuki have bin making atvs for 30 years... in that time im sure they have learned a thing or 2 about building them... to me best choice new is the kingquad 500, followed by the foreman 500, again though, belt drive vs gear drive...

power wise buy what suits your budget... i never planned on buying a 700, i was actually on my way south to pick up a 450, when my local dealership who i know the owner at, called me and said he just had the 700 come in on trade, with only 800 kms on it, and i got it for less money then i was gonna pay for the 450, and actually enjoy the 700...

one other note to pass along with regards to the foremans... this comes right from the owner of a local dealership: stay away from the electronic shifts, they were haveing problems with them, that was back in 2010 mind you, so hopefully they got that resolved...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishy steve

one other note to pass along with regards to the foremans... this comes right from the owner of a local dealership: stay away from the electronic shifts, they were haveing problems with them, that was back in 2010 mind you, so hopefully they got that resolved...

---

Especially when it freezes, you're screwed.

we never had a problem with the electric shift on a Honda but I did have one freeze up the rear end well up north one year deer hunting ,the day before the season we were out riding and I got off the side of a beaver dam ,well it turns out my rear seal was a little old and worn ,but a pail of water off the woods stove and away we go ,,Dutch

Come on! Honduhs don't break down!:silly:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dutchhunter

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...lares500ho.jpg
had this one for three months just never liked the way it drove never buy another one .thy just donot compare to the Honda or Yamaha ,,this is a 500 ,,Dutch

---

Your front tire is on backwards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Your front tire is on backwards.

---

Got stuck so much... had to be ready to reverse at any moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oddmott

Got stuck so much... had to be ready to reverse at any moment.

---

Typical Honduh nutswinger..LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Typical Honduh nutswinger..LOL

---

lol Not even. But i couldn't resist.
I don't even have an atv, and when the time comes for me to get one, i'll be happy with just about anything in the 350-600 range.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oddmott

lol Not even. But i couldn't resist.
I don't even have an atv, and when the time comes for me to get one, i'll be happy with just about anything in the 350-600 range.

---

That was actually mostly aimed at Dutch (in jest of course), but to all Honduh fanboys in general..LOL

Something that you may want to consider is that the small bikes leave very little room for small mods like larger tires if you want them. There's just no room, but tires are everything when it comes to performance.
If you're just riding around the property then the stock tires will be fine however. I know that when I buy a truck, ATV, or whatever, there's always some kind of mod I want to do, but that's just me.

I'd just be buying one for my dad to use for maple sap collecting. Good tires would be the extent of the modifications. All our time and money would go to improving the trails and collection system to make the atv's life easier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Your front tire is on backwards.

---

you are right when this pic was taken it was pulling real bad to the right so I pulled the front tires and switched them around to see of it was the rubber or the rims .or if it was something different ..good eye ..it turned out to be a bad tire ,,Dutch

Lose a few pounds pressure in one tire and they'll pull you all over the place--whether its on backwards or not.

I run mine at 4 lb's so yeah a few lb's would throw things off..lol

I run mine at 5. When I had the Bearclaws installed the tech asked my weight and what I'd be using the quad for and he came up with 5 psi....

The swamp fox boots I run recommend 7 psi minimum. It really matters not though as they are so hard they don't even wrinkle when running flat.

I have Outlaw MST's and they have a stiff enough sidewall that they'll get me back totally flat as well.

i judge my tires by my boot lol if i can push my foot in toward the rim, add air, if i cant make a dent in the rubber, let some out haha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishy steve

i judge my tires by my boot lol if i can push my foot in toward the rim, add air, if i cant make a dent in the rubber, let some out haha

---

Haha. That's the Polish air pressure guage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by last5oh_302

I have Outlaw MST's and they have a stiff enough sidewall that they'll get me back totally flat as well.

---

It's a great feeling knowing you will get home without kicking a bead and having to pack the tire full of Sawgrass to be mobile again.

forgot to add, if tire higher then handle bar, tire pressure no longer issue...

unforunatly bin in that situation...lol