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He seems to be stuck in last place pretty consistently and Mulcair and Harper swap the lead almost every poll. I'm thinking being seen as the son of Wynne given her track record and approval rating is going to be the death of JT. I wonder if Wynne is still drawing her Provincial salary while she is out campaigning? Then again the more time she spends "not" working for us likely saves us millions.
Well,if she is,I hope she keeps up the good work. I'm still a little bewildered why the Conservatives are dwelling on Trudeau and the Libs when the clear threat is Mulcair and the NDP. Maybe,it's a part of an over-all strategy. Time will tell.
Mulcair will need JT to get anything through. He won't get a majority.
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by terrym
You misspelled "Billions".
Even if she might be saving us some dough now it won't take her long to blow that and more after the election!!Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Wynne dragging JT down and of course, as expected CBC doing their best to drag Harper down.
It takes all of my willpower not to throw up, or throw something at the tv screen listening to bigoted, socialist, hypocritical , condescending bunch of bozo political pundits they parade on stage for us to have to listen to. And even more insulting is the fact that we have to help pay for their inept , biased B. S. Three cheers for our good old " beloved media party".
CBC = Conservative Bashing Consortium
Oh. I don't think Wynne is dragging Trudeau down. I think he is capable of doing that himself whenever he opens his mouth. However, she isn't doing him any favours either. I mean introducing the "new Ontario Pension Plan" during this election was cannon fodder to Harper. He called what it is: a tax. However, I think people are realizing Trudeau is running on his name alone and the two front runners are much stronger than he is.
Going back to the Maclean's debate, how many times did Trudeau call out to the moderator like a kid who just got his favourite toy taken away? 10? 25? What is going to happen if he gets elected and our country faces a serious crisis? Is he going to start whining to the world?
Dyth
Our country already is facing several serious crisis. Putin has claimed the Arctic, ISIS grows more barbaric every day and they are among us waiting to strike terror. Can you imagine JT at a G7 meeting?
Justin at a G7 meeting ?? Scary thought.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...psoxkhb2px.jpg
The most pressing urgency,right now,is the oil war between the Americans,us and OPEC. That will sink us quickly if we don't develop a strategy to make an end run around it. Nobody is talking about that,especially,the leftist media because their parties (Libs and NDP) haven't a clue how to handle it and they're painfully aware of that fact. It's better to be thought an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt,although,JT is the grand master of stupid and doesn't need any help. As for Mulcair and the NDP? All they can talk about is the Duffy trial,like it's the most pressing issue. Dumbies...every one of them.
Amazes me that anyone would even contemplate voting for the Liberals whether Wynne was sticking her nose in where it doesn't belong or not. Also not sure why the Fed Libs aren't distancing themselves, given her numbers here are bottoming out.
Not really sure what her "end game" is. Is she just trying to deflect from all the crap here in Ont. Is she power hungry and envisioning a a scenario where its JT led Liberals in Ottawa and Her in Queens Park?
Or is she just completely off the deep end. How why anyone could have voted for her is beyond me.
Cant say they weren't "warned".
makes me laugh when I think about the Harper haters and cries about him being evil, destroying democracy and more....when right here ......
/laugh
one last "bullit".
I can only imagine how "frosty" things will be after the election if Harper and the cons win. If she's whinning now about transfer payments, ORPP help, lack of federal infrastructure help etc.......taking stupid shots at Harper and more...
Way to go Kathleen, almost hope Harper completely slams the door on Ont.
You get what you deserve.
Good summary of the situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
I can picture Mulcair talikng to a guy like Putin. It's almost like the Little Chicken Hawk and Foghorn Leghorn. "WHAP! Go 'way,son.you bother me."
According to the left though terrym , these are non issues. Over exaggerated fear mongering , by the right, trying to scare people.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Someday, maybe, likely after its too late they will get their heads out of their collective ar-es and finally smell the roses. I fear it will be too late then, to stop the bleeding. And guess who will whine and cry the most? The same imbeciles that facilitated it in the first place.
The NDP wants to leave all the oil in the ground. So if they form our next parliament,Justin can work with them, dropping winter coats to all the freezing Canadians. After each day's coat drop is done , Tom and Justin will get together, hold hands and sing kumbaya and all will be well.
Doesn't matter what happens in the country or the world for that matter. If you are on the Federal payroll none of it affects your standard of living.Quote:
Originally Posted by bushman
TM, while I usually agree with your posts this is not entirely true. Most employees of most governments are basically blue collar workers. They do enjoy almost guaranteed pensions (which they contribute to) but they still face lay-offs, salary caps, etc. the same as private industry workers.
Government works (including those working for crown corporations) situations re: layoffs, salary caps, etc are nothing at all like those faced by private industry workers, especially non-union workers. Most government layoffs are through attrition (gold-plated early retirement) and transfers to other departments. Most private industry layoffs result in unemployed people.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
Sawbill, I myself tend to fall somewhere in the middle on most all topics. By that I mean, I keep an open mind, appreciate all points/sides. I cant speak to federal numbers, as I haven't seen many produced but a couple. When taken with salt, I say ok. But in the end I tend to look at it as the overall size and cost of gov't. On this the jury is in.
That said.
There is no way, those in PS have felt the pinch and contraction 2008 and on, like "private" has. It's largely true that PS is "immune" to downturns (not exactly accurate many do lose jobs etc) one only need look at various reports, studies and statistics to see the truth of it. That's been "true" since forever.
Now take the recent job posting for COs, who I think we can all agree have gotten the short end for years.
$1,300 to $1,400/week gross or up to $72,800 annualized. And that's before benefits and their Pension. That is as much as the mean [b]duo[/u] income, and for many of those families they don't have Pensions.
And while it's true people contribute to their Pensions, what get vs what they kick in and whats picked up by tax payers..........
Many of whom can only dream......
Its whacked, badly so somewhere, many wheres.
Take "teachers"...despite raises (prior to 2010) and then freezes for some.
Do they not still get their ladder raises for X years...
So while the peons in "private" who if they haven't lost their jobs, aren't seeing much in the way of raises (1.5%)...
That's stats don't lie and they show quite clearly how over the past few decades PS has gotten their cake and eat it to...
Answers?
Other than booting Unions hard...Don't know.. What I do know is that when economies contract (recessions) PS (broad brush stroke) doesn't feel it anywhere near as much...Likely that needs to be, cant be laying off all kinds...However their contracts keep seeing them getting raises that aren't realistic ( They got 4% when times were good last year....and keep getting that, while everyone else...) Or many get raises based on years service (where in the world other than that do people get raises simply for X years)....Their pensions and more..Then as soon as the economy picks up again, they pick up again...
Personally I wonder if there doesn't in fact need to be more years of freezes and once things are a little better aka "balanced", legislate "raises" to inflation less a small spread. If inflation/cost of living is 2%, then PS gets 1.5%. At least that way, when things go south it wont result in growth that outstrips what the peons paying for everything are seeing.
Consider this.
ORPP...only the peons are going to lose yet another 2%
If its raided for infrastructure...its the peons losing or rather paying for that.
If people die before retirement...its the peons paying, and its the peons children getting robbed.
I wonder how popular Ms Wynnne would have been if instead her new pension supplement was a 4% tax on PS to help fund trhe peons plans.
Was a time about 40 years ago, when you traded comp for benefits and better security (not immunity)...Today its been shown over and over and over, that across the board, from the janitors to the gold plated politicians...They have better benefits, better pay...and security, largely "immune" to economic downturns
"Infrastructure" is code for expanded PS jobs. The Peons are going to be squeezed an extra 1.9% to hire more PS at 14% higher wages than comparable private sector positions. Add in the tax funded legacy costs of gold plated pensions and the peon gets screwed again. A government worker contributes what 25% max into their pension plan? I pay the 75% extra. If the used that extra 14% they get and invest into their own pension portfolios they would still outpace private sector peons. It's time to cut taxpayer funded pensions. We can't afford them. The lifetime 14% premium in wages is enough to cover retirement portfolios. "Infrastructure" is code for more unionized liberal voters with cash for life positions.
While all the plans (I believe) are DBPs (very expensive), not all the plans are the same Terry and employee contributions differ with some being as much as 50%.
Regardless of how much or how little (hydro 1 I believe is for every employee $, tax payers contribute 4) it's still whacked.
The peons are literally working hard so others don't have to. And the way this admin has driven the province into the ground resulting in higher taxes, fees, having to sell assets to pay for infrastructure or simply not having $$ now for healthcare, education, MoE and MNR. Hydro and more over and above....
Should have people infuriated. For all the "griping" about Harper, or greedy CEOs or A to Z......
Anywho. To the "point" about the broad PS largely being immune, it's "true". There are always exceptions, and people shouldn't forget that. However that "immunity" is one reason why things have gotten "out of control".
No way Unions will ever agree to changes due to reality (downturns when they occur). So.......
I find it ironic that the left will rant about "how" Duffy repaid the $90k to the treasury as the end of democracy but allow Wynne to bribe bielection candidates, waste billions to win seats? Wynne is Trudoughs biggest cheer leader and defacto campaign manager. Do people have any clue what is going on?
This is the crap that's driving me nuts. Can't turn on the radio or TV right now without hearing about the friggin Duffy case... and that's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Nothing about Wynne's screw ups, nothing about the fact she's breaking electoral law by wading into the Federal campaign... such garbage.
Funny that eh M.
:)
And the utterly mind boggling thing is, many voted for her, would still vote for her and might just vote for JT.
I'm not sure really what her end goal is.
A) If JT squeeks in, she will claim credit and will want JT to help bail her out, tax and spend and expand her feifdom
B) It's a distraction to take eyes off Ontario
C) Its a hail Mary.
It's up in the air and her most recent attack on Angry Tom has just crystalized things. My bet is if Harper gets in, things for us peons will only get worse as things will go from dysfunctional as she called it blaming Harper...to downright ice cold.
As one pundit put it today in the FP..She's setting new lows for politics (yet again)
You and me both. It's to the point for us,that if something hasn't exploded or the world is on the brink of nuclear war,we turn the news off. By reading the stuff that's coming out of the trial,I have a funny feeling that because the finance rules are such a disaster,Duffy will be acquitted and all this media campaign to aid the lefties will go "POOF!"........I hope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddmott
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Maybe she goes both ways. Politically speaking, of course.
Wynne officially endorsed Trudeau today. It is like the engineers who designed the Titanic endorsing the engineers who built the Hindenburg (and yes that is historically accurate).
Well, if the rumours are true, she has already tried to bribe people from running in bi-elections. What is a little federal election rule breaking?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddmott
There are no rules in Ontario for Liberals. She has been caught tampering in a byelection and reported by the Chief Electoral Officer to the OPP and it was swept under the rug. She was caught destroying archived emails illegally by sneaking in a non government employee in after hours to erase coverup evidence for the gas plants and it was swept under the carpet. She has police protection. She has paid off the OPP with obscene raises. Ontario is now a banana republic without the nice climate. The PS unions now have control of the Province and it is now pretty well impossible to change that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
Not sure I'd go that far Terry, but obviously yes. There are two sets of rules for the L and R politically and in the media as well as for politicians with respect to the law. 3 investigations, all taking forever (complex financial crimes are over with faster) and all done shoddily.
The optics are brutal at best. They dragged their heals on the gas plants, gave plenty of warning with respect to searches and why is it
No-one is asking the OPP why at first they claimed "no evidence of wrong doing" is the Sudbury by election, and it wasn't until the tapes went public when "we" could hear with our ears.....that they changed their tunes and started doing
Their jobs.
The obscene raises and subsequent major breach of protocol by the Union of endorsing Wynne speaks volumes.
Dark times and black eyes for the boots on the ground.
Anyone who doesn't think that this admin and PS unions aren't corrupt, and in effect robbing the peons for their own enrichments, over the benefit of "all" and controlling elections needs to give their heads a shake.
For a quick history lesson regarding Unions and pro-labor governments in Canada,Google Hal C.Banks and the SIU. There was a movie done,also. History has a way of repeating itself if we let it happen.
Nice read Trimmer :)
http://citizenspress.org/editorials/...f-hal-c.-banks
Find it funny many on the Left and even a few that post here, will bemoan and gripe about corporate greed and back room deals with Oil.
But defend Unions tooth and nail, as though they somehow are above Corruption, especially when history teaches us Unions and corruption and greed go hand in hand. Nah were "canadians", couldn't possibly occur here and the Unions here couldn't possibly be the ones breaking the backs of the "working class" in their zest for power at QP
Currently there is an ongoing battle with the First Nation's over the requirement to open up their books to show what the Band Leader's are paid. Pretty safe to say we are all aware of some of the shocking salaries they are getting.
Now then, recall that the same legislation is in the works to force the union leaders to do the same. There is no doubt in my mind that as soon as the membership sees what the union execs are making off the money from the members they will be some hard/harsh questions to answer.
One can only hope that Wynne's nonsense is hurting the Liberals at the Federal level. Sooner or later it is my view that the Liberals in Ontario will be revealed to be waist deep in the union corruption. If you don't believe that just wait and see how hard they (Liberals) fight to keep the books closed. Once the books are open and people start following the money it won't take long to see where the path is going.
Doesn't really matter because people will still keep voting them in. Can't fix stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGearyFTE
Waist deep Dgeary?
I'm thinking up to their eyeballs in and the various Unions are right there with them. There is already enough hard, and anecdotal evidence to safely say, waste deep.
Will it ever change?
Depends on
A) Whether or not any politician comes along with the backbone to call spades spades, and the courage to lay it open.
B) Whether or not many Union members are willing to look in the mirrors and not only hear it, see it and then have what it takes to be willing to go "against" the masses and war drums. Look at just the OPP….the erosion in the Public Trust is starting to haunt them. And yet…….Most only too willing to bank 13.5% over 5 years during which the peons of the world……
C) Whether or not many in the GTA likewise decide that they to are willing to hear/see it and understand theres a heck of a lot more to Ontario than just the GTA, and PS.
Patrick Brown?
Im thinking he might. Time will tell.
As it stands there are some small efforts to force them to open the books, or "right to work" or talk about campaign funding etc. And predictably the war drums are being beat hard.
JBen <
Met Patrick Brown. Chatted one-on-one with him for quite some time leading up to the PC leadership election. I suspect that if elected in 2018 he will move forward with union reform. I know he is no idealist, he works crazy hard and he listens...
Union reform?
So.... He'll lose as badly as Who-dat did?
Favorite quote.
Quote:
It's discouraging to think how many are shocked by honesty, and so few deceit
or
orQuote:
you can't handle the truth
orQuote:
be unafraid to stand up, even if alone
Where should I stop?
If he becomes a causality like "who dat" for oh my gawd, speaking plain…or Mike Harris who while he had tunnel vision and a vendetta, was no less honest and hindsight shows us a bit of a visionary..
Isn't it funny how any politician who dares to say Boo (including McGuinty when he was finally forced to, and could no longer blow smoke out his backside about the state of things and tried to get ahead of the Drummond report and his infamous "hold the line"….only in desperation on the eve of losing as a result of pissing off Teachers, flush 1.1billion)…..
Id rather someone stand up and call spades spades, show some conviction and back bone and be a little honest, than yet another spineless, crowd pleaser and maybe lose
Than the type we all gripe about.
I know, shocking and novel isn't it?
Wynne has already caved in to her masters:
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/08/20...nce-reach-deal
She isn't stupid. An imbecile and a liar but not entirely stupid. She saw her vote and financial base going back to the NDP so had no choice but to come good on the IOU to the unions. Trying to get the real details of this deal won't be easy. Trust me, teacher unions don't sign off on anything without huge gains.
I'll wait until details are made public but at the end of the day......"really".
I guesss the Unions having had a large role in things, and further having benefitted so much..are once again whining. Yeah, fine class sizes are important. Well if there isn't enough $$ for so many things be it healthcare, Infrastructure, MoE/MNR and can they not look at reality and see the peons who pay for everything...are getting pummelled (in part thanks to them). I really don't care if theres no wage increases. I guess "they" are oh so more important than anyone/anything else.....And once again job actions...strikes. Guess its asking too much that they look around at "reality". A reality they helped create.
Oh and isn't it funny.....How Ms Wynne comes to an agreement after so much angst last spring.....
Just in time for the Federal Election, and her best bud JT and the Unions pounding the drums.
As an aside, I hear the province is hiring on around 17 new CO's province wide.
Yep :)
Reality is, unless we want to go even further into debt (keep in mind 130b to be spent on infrastructure), raise taxes quite a bit (people are taking it on the chin already)
No money for healthcare (they've gutted services, laid off a lot nurses, kept spending increases at near zero)
No money for "teachers"...sorry our kids
Storm clouds (boomers, rate hikes, more)
Climate change, environmental concerns, Moose, Bear, Walleye, Asian Carp, endless list. And the MoE and MNR are last, less than 1% of the budget.
It's a fine mess and no one to blame but....
Those CO positions are just filling vacancies that the province has refused to fill over the past years. Its not like we're getting more than the original complement.
But its the general feeling by most here that its the Government over spending for their own again. (My pet peeve)
I sometimes wonder Sawbill if people "really" understand what all that over spending, waste, vote buying is costing us. is Yes obliviously the actual hard dollars.
But look at healthcare alone. Services have been gutted, wait times are insane ( I myself had to wait 18 month and botched biopsies before my cancer was properly diagnosed and then 4 months waiting for surgery with a ticking time bomb in me head). Nurses being laid off and on and on. We have Boomers starting to retire and the impacts there are well known
Now because we have "no money"……..and are already raises taxes/fees just to keep the status quo.
OR
All the green champion "leftist", for who the environment is "oh so important" or who go ballistic over the Cecils of the world. Or who go on and on about GW or climate change. Or pollution or…..
The MoE and MNR get less than 1% of the budget. Even if people woke up and realized we are sitting on most of the worlds fresh water and we are literally Ping in it and Ping it away and so much more. And wanted to, you know, do more than talk about conservation or saving Cecils (sorry Moose or Asian Carp or )..
How?
JBen,Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
I want to comment on your point about JT and her being best buddies. For a lot of August and even more so the past week, Kathleen Wynne has been there right beside Junior. I have to ask. Who is running the province? I thought Kathleen Wynne was elected to run this province (however poorly I think she is doing it), not the main campaigning cheerleader for the Federal Liberal Party. I didn't see that little tidbit on her platform when she campaigned for the premier's job.
Still if Wynne had a stellar record running the province, I could see this as a big problem. Right now I think she is a huge liability for Junior and all Harper has to do is point to her record running this province and remind the voting public in Ontario of rising everything and the "pension plan" and basically say if you think it is bad now........
I also get a kick out of Wynne's complaining that Harper doesn't want to work with her. It seems to me when a person is a political liability the best bet is to stay away from them. She did it with Rob Ford (going so far as to only communicate with the Deputy Mayor) and Harper is giving her the same treatment but now she is mewling Harper is a big meanie. I suppose when the shoe is on the other foot, things aren't so comfortable.
Dyth
No kidding Dyth,
the Liberals have trashed Ontario, and imo PS Unions and obviously many of the members, shoulder a lot of responsibility. Not only are they "selfish", but it's the political clout they wield. They like anyone else in politics spin, out right lie and bend "facts", blow smoke, pull the wool over the eyes of the "unaware", and whip the blindly faithful into frenzies (not unlike anti hunting activist do when a Cecil happens) and only have their own agenda in mind. Amazes me that some of the Union defenders don't know that, or think they above it. They don't give 2 plugged nickels about, what's best for Ontario, or the people of Ontario, let alone the "peons" getting hammered.
Wynnes heavy involvement is a joke. A sad one. For the reasons you mention, also if Harper does win, it only means things for Ont get worse and frankly rightfully so. She needs to get spanked like the child she is, and put in her place.
So ironic that the left is going crazy over Duffy, meanwhile Wynne has not only trashed Ontario, flushed billions in scandals, is under investigation herself for election contraventions and more...
and still people will vote for her, or JT.
I'm betting between now and Oct there will be obvious signs of the Teachers behind JT now, and less obvious ( pawns helping on the ground volunteering, beating drums, knocking on doors, handing out propaganda etc etc etc)
I pray the rest of Canada and Ont (outside the GTA) have a little more common sense and the ability to see through the "smoke"